My son and daughter-in-law have bought a cottage in North Wales which is 1000 feet (330 metres) above sea level. The garden and grounds have not been cultivated for 30 too 40 years. They've made a start in clearing the ground and are now wondering what will grow at that level. They are interested in veg. and fruit trees predominately.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

On Dec 28, 1:14*am, Macey660
wrote:
My son and daughter-in-law have bought a cottage in North Wales which is
1000 feet (330 metres) above sea level. The garden and grounds have not
been cultivated for 30 too 40 years. They've made a start in clearing
the ground and are now wondering what will grow at that level. They are
interested in veg. and fruit trees predominately.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

--
Macey660

Heh heh.
I spent 20yrs in the same situation.
You are on a hiding to nothing.
The soil will be light and sandy = dry in Summer and impoverished.
Any compost etcyou put in vanishes in a few weeks.
You will lose 6 weeks out of the growing season due to altitude.
Nights can be very cold.
Wind can be a majorproblem.
Forget about brassicas but roots do OK.
Potatos do OK, get blight resistant varieties.
A tunnel greenhouse is imperative.
You need to make preparations to collect and store irrigation water in
Winter for Summer use.

Most fruit trees are a disaster even if sheltered. The shrubby ones
do mediocre Raspberries, gooseberries etc

On Dec 28, 8:32*am, harry wrote:
On Dec 28, 1:14*am, Macey660
wrote:

My son and daughter-in-law have bought a cottage in North Wales which is
1000 feet (330 metres) above sea level. The garden and grounds have not
been cultivated for 30 too 40 years. They've made a start in clearing
the ground and are now wondering what will grow at that level. They are
interested in veg. and fruit trees predominately.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

--
Macey660

Heh heh.
I spent 20yrs in the same situation.
You are on a hiding to nothing.
The soil will be light and sandy = dry in Summer and impoverished.
Any compost etcyou put in vanishes in a few weeks.
You will lose 6 weeks out of the growing season due to altitude.
Nights can be very cold.
Wind can be a majorproblem.
Forget about brassicas but roots do OK.
Potatos do OK, get blight resistant varieties.
A tunnel greenhouse is imperative.
You need to make preparations to collect and store irrigation water in
Winter for Summer use.

Most fruit trees are a disaster even if sheltered. *The shrubby ones
do mediocre Raspberries, gooseberries etc

Balderdash
It's North Wales.
1000ft is not that high, what's more important is it's aspect, is it
North, South, East or west facing?
It's easy to check the soil type, The majority of the soil is clay
based and wet.
Remember the rainfall is high.in a lot of North Wales.
Are there trees growing in the neighbourhood?
If there are other people living in the area, what are they growing?

Have you looked at the Alternative Energy Centre near Macchynlleth? They're not as high as you, but they did create a veg garden out of, basically, slate. I saw it in the early days (1970s) when I remember some unhappy looking soya beans in a bed of slate chippings, and again 15 years later when the veg were flourishing. They might have some advice for you.

On 28/12/2011 01:14, Macey660 wrote:
My son and daughter-in-law have bought a cottage in North Wales which is
1000 feet (330 metres) above sea level. The garden and grounds have not
been cultivated for 30 too 40 years. They've made a start in clearing
the ground and are now wondering what will grow at that level. They are
interested in veg. and fruit trees predominately.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.




You might be interested in "Garden in the Hills" by Elizabeth West.
It's about a young couple who buy an old farm and try to create a
garden. It was in North Wales and was a thousand feet above sea level!
Maybe it's the same one!

Regards

Pat Macguire

On Dec 28, 9:55*am, Dave Hill wrote:
On Dec 28, 8:32*am, harry wrote:





On Dec 28, 1:14*am, Macey660
wrote:

My son and daughter-in-law have bought a cottage in North Wales which is
1000 feet (330 metres) above sea level. The garden and grounds have not
been cultivated for 30 too 40 years. They've made a start in clearing
the ground and are now wondering what will grow at that level. They are
interested in veg. and fruit trees predominately.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

--
Macey660

Heh heh.
I spent 20yrs in the same situation.
You are on a hiding to nothing.
The soil will be light and sandy = dry in Summer and impoverished.
Any compost etcyou put in vanishes in a few weeks.
You will lose 6 weeks out of the growing season due to altitude.
Nights can be very cold.
Wind can be a majorproblem.
Forget about brassicas but roots do OK.
Potatos do OK, get blight resistant varieties.
A tunnel greenhouse is imperative.
You need to make preparations to collect and store irrigation water in
Winter for Summer use.

Most fruit trees are a disaster even if sheltered. *The shrubby ones
do mediocre Raspberries, gooseberries etc

Balderdash
It's North Wales.
1000ft is not that high, what's more important is it's aspect, is it
North, South, East or west facing?
It's easy to check the soil type, The majority of the soil is clay
based and wet.
Remember the rainfall is high.in a lot of North Wales.
Are there trees growing in the neighbourhood?
If there are other people living in the area, what are they growing?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So have you lived at such altitudes? I have. So p**s off, there's a
good chap.

1000ft can be the difference between a foot of snow and nothing at
all.
It can mean a temperature five deg C lower than on the valley floor.
On exposed sites, wind chill/burn is a major factor also.
I have seen radiation frosts in June quite frequently.

On hills, in high rainfall areas, the fine particles are washed out of
soil leaving the coarse behind (ie sand).

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 00:32:46 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:

You are on a hiding to nothing.

It won't be easy for sure.

The soil will be light and sandy = dry in Summer and impoverished.

Might be soils vary considerably across wales from peat to sand via
clay.

Any compost etcyou put in vanishes in a few weeks.

That will depend on the soil.

You will lose 6 weeks out of the growing season due to altitude.

Yes the season is short, we are at 1400' on the North Pennines, might
be a 8 week shorter season.

Nights can be very cold.

Temps will be 2 or 3C lower than at sea level.

Wind can be a majorproblem.

That is the major problem here, stuff can be literally blown out of
the ground.

Forget about brassicas but roots do OK.

If it's a windy location forget about anything that has much top
growth. It'' just get thrashed to death and the plant will spend all
it's energy repairing that rather than producing the crop.

Potatos do OK, get blight resistant varieties.

A tunnel greenhouse is imperative.

Ha! If you can get it to stay up in the wind.

You need to make preparations to collect and store irrigation water in
Winter for Summer use.

Not a problem up here, even in the driest summers the ground (peaty)
is still moist. A lot will depend on the soil of course.

Most fruit trees are a disaster even if sheltered. The shrubby ones
do mediocre Raspberries, gooseberries etc

We have gooseberries, red and black currants. They crop reasonably
well (without proper tending as well) the big problem is getting a
window in the weather to pick the damn things when they are just
right.

We find that stuff just takes a season or three to get established,
combination of the lower temps and short season. Things may even
appear to have died but come back after missing a season.

--
Cheers
Dave.

harry wrote in
:


So have you lived at such altitudes? I have. So p**s off, there's a
good chap.

1000ft can be the difference between a foot of snow and nothing at
all.
It can mean a temperature five deg C lower than on the valley floor.
On exposed sites, wind chill/burn is a major factor also.
I have seen radiation frosts in June quite frequently.

On hills, in high rainfall areas, the fine particles are washed out of
soil leaving the coarse behind (ie sand).



harry,

Your attitude is getting worse. You have always had valid points for us,
but can you tell them to us without the insults! Before you say it-yes I
have been an arse too!

Baz

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in
ll.co.uk:

We find that stuff just takes a season or three to get established,
combination of the lower temps and short season. Things may even
appear to have died but come back after missing a season.


Having read all of this thread, I wonder why you live there.

Not being funny or trying to insult you, what is there for you where you live, a blowing gale that uproots a cabbage
or anything above ground.

It would definatly make me want a "normal life" in normal conditions.

Respect to you
Baz

On Dec 28, 3:47*pm, harry wrote:
On Dec 28, 9:55*am, Dave Hill wrote:





On Dec 28, 8:32*am, harry wrote:

On Dec 28, 1:14*am, Macey660
wrote:

My son and daughter-in-law have bought a cottage in North Wales which is
1000 feet (330 metres) above sea level. The garden and grounds have not
been cultivated for 30 too 40 years. They've made a start in clearing
the ground and are now wondering what will grow at that level. They are
interested in veg. and fruit trees predominately.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

--
Macey660

Heh heh.
I spent 20yrs in the same situation.
You are on a hiding to nothing.
The soil will be light and sandy = dry in Summer and impoverished.
Any compost etcyou put in vanishes in a few weeks.
You will lose 6 weeks out of the growing season due to altitude.
Nights can be very cold.
Wind can be a majorproblem.
Forget about brassicas but roots do OK.
Potatos do OK, get blight resistant varieties.
A tunnel greenhouse is imperative.
You need to make preparations to collect and store irrigation water in
Winter for Summer use.

Most fruit trees are a disaster even if sheltered. *The shrubby ones
do mediocre Raspberries, gooseberries etc

Balderdash
It's North Wales.
1000ft is not that high, what's more important is it's aspect, is it
North, South, East or west facing?
It's easy to check the soil type, The majority of the soil is clay
based and wet.
Remember the rainfall is high.in a lot of North Wales.
Are there trees growing in the neighbourhood?
If there are other people living in the area, what are they growing?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So have you lived at such altitudes? I have. So p**s off, there's a
good chap.

1000ft can be the difference between a foot of snow and nothing at
all.
It can mean a temperature five deg C lower than on the valley floor.
On exposed sites, wind chill/burn is a major factor also.
I have seen radiation frosts in June quite frequently.

On hills, in high rainfall areas, the fine particles are washed out of
soil leaving the coarse behind (ie sand).- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Harry, Harry, Harry!
You are not the only person in the UK who has lived in North Wales,
and Yes I lived in North Wales for almost 5 years.
I now live on the side of a 998ft "mountain" in South Wales, tho top
of which is not rugged as in the North, and is covered in Clay.
You don't need 1000 ft to make a differance to the weather, I have
known our mountain have snow on the top, but just 50 to 100 ft down
Nothing.
As for radiation frost in June, I have known that in Sussex never mind
North Wales

I think you should have a look at this web site for Caerau Uchaf
Gardens, Caerau Uchaf, Sarnau, Bala, Gwynedd

http://www.summersgardens.co.uk/

David

Have you looked at the Alternative Energy Centre near Macchynlleth?
They're not as high as you, but they did create a veg garden out of,
basically, slate. *I saw it in the early days (1970s) when I remember
some unhappy looking soya beans in a bed of slate chippings, and again
15 years later when the veg were flourishing. They might have some
advice for you.

--
kay

Almost right Kay, its actualy The Centre for Alternative Technology,
Llwyngwern Quarry, Pantperthog, Machynlleth, SY20 9AZ
,
http://www.cat.org.uk/
I've visited them several times over the years and have seen the place
change a lot over around 25 years,
Well worth a visit if you are in the area.
David

On Dec 28, 4:45*pm, Dave Hill wrote:
On Dec 28, 3:47*pm, harry wrote:





On Dec 28, 9:55*am, Dave Hill wrote:

On Dec 28, 8:32*am, harry wrote:

On Dec 28, 1:14*am, Macey660
wrote:

My son and daughter-in-law have bought a cottage in North Wales which is
1000 feet (330 metres) above sea level. The garden and grounds have not
been cultivated for 30 too 40 years. They've made a start in clearing
the ground and are now wondering what will grow at that level. They are
interested in veg. and fruit trees predominately.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

--
Macey660

Heh heh.
I spent 20yrs in the same situation.
You are on a hiding to nothing.
The soil will be light and sandy = dry in Summer and impoverished..
Any compost etcyou put in vanishes in a few weeks.
You will lose 6 weeks out of the growing season due to altitude.
Nights can be very cold.
Wind can be a majorproblem.
Forget about brassicas but roots do OK.
Potatos do OK, get blight resistant varieties.
A tunnel greenhouse is imperative.
You need to make preparations to collect and store irrigation water in
Winter for Summer use.

Most fruit trees are a disaster even if sheltered. *The shrubby ones
do mediocre Raspberries, gooseberries etc

Balderdash
It's North Wales.
1000ft is not that high, what's more important is it's aspect, is it
North, South, East or west facing?
It's easy to check the soil type, The majority of the soil is clay
based and wet.
Remember the rainfall is high.in a lot of North Wales.
Are there trees growing in the neighbourhood?
If there are other people living in the area, what are they growing?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So have you lived at such altitudes? I have. So p**s off, there's a
good chap.

1000ft can be the difference between a foot of snow and nothing at
all.
It can mean a temperature five deg C lower than on the valley floor.
On exposed sites, wind chill/burn is a major factor also.
I have seen radiation frosts in June quite frequently.

On hills, in high rainfall areas, the fine particles are washed out of
soil leaving the coarse behind (ie sand).- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Harry, Harry, Harry!
You are not the only person in the UK who has lived in North Wales,
and Yes I lived in North Wales for almost 5 years.
I now live on the side of a 998ft "mountain" in South Wales, tho top
of which is not rugged as in the North, and is covered in Clay.
You don't need 1000 ft to make a differance to the weather, I have
known our mountain have snow on the top, but just 50 to 100 ft down
Nothing.
As for radiation frost in June, I have known that in Sussex never mind
North Wales

I think you should have a look at this web site for Caerau Uchaf
Gardens, Caerau Uchaf, Sarnau, Bala, Gwynedd

http://www.summersgardens.co.uk/

David- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's all about aspect and location. 1000ft can be on a north facing
boggy hillside in snowdonia, or it can be sunny south facing aspect
above the conwy valley. Apart from the effects of altitude and aspect
coastal North Wales at any rate is quite mild, go inland towards
Ruthin or Wrexham for example and it's a different world. We had a
neighbour a couple of miles away at 600ft who had a good garden.
If trees won't grow in the area gardening will be quite difficult, if
shelter belts can be established then you're in with a chance given a
reasonable aspect.
Mountain sites may be peaty, boggy places with rock not far down but
still pockets of reasonable soil should be found. Not many places at
1000 feet will have a solid clay soil though they may have a kind of
stony glacial till, in which case plent of organic matter will help
but in all cases look at the local vegetation and other gardens.

Gardening is possible almost anywhere. See 'Some branch against the
sky' G J F Dutton ISBN-13: 978-0715306406 ISBN-10:
0715306405
OK he's wasn't growing fruit and veg and some folk might not recognise
it as a 'proper garden'

Rod
(In North Wales for 36yrs but not at 1000ft)

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 16:38:34 GMT, Baz wrote:

We find that stuff just takes a season or three to get
established,
combination of the lower temps and short season. Things may even
appear to have died but come back after missing a season.

Having read all of this thread, I wonder why you live there.

Because it's a wonderful place to live... With a population of only
just over 2,000 we know, at least by sight most people, crime is
almost non-existant, the place pulls together as a community when the
going gets tough.

It would definatly make me want a "normal life" in normal conditions.

But "normal life" is just so boring, living in a rabbit hutch in a
street after street of rabbit hutches. Yes, it can be a bit bleak and
we might not be able to get down to town let alone off the moor for a
day or two each winter but so what? We have enough food stocks to
last at least a week and decent backups for cooking lighting and
heating should the power fail. That was off for 36hrs just before
Christmas, not convient but no great hassle.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Dec 28, 11:21*am, kay wrote:
Have you looked at the Alternative Energy Centre near Macchynlleth?
They're not as high as you, but they did create a veg garden out of,
basically, slate. *I saw it in the early days (1970s) when I remember
some unhappy looking soya beans in a bed of slate chippings, and again
15 years later when the veg were flourishing. They might have some
advice for you.


The advice might involve peeing in a bucket, mind.

I did well to get that close! I've had gastric flu since Christmas Day and my brain isn't up to its usual performance.