On Tue, 1 May 2012 16:21:36 +0100 (BST), wrote:

In article ,
Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:

When it's not Winter most rainwater that falls evaporates before it
gets into reservoirs even when there isn't much Sun.

That is an oversimplification, bordering on a falsehood. It is
true for the driest parts of the country, but assuredly not for
the country as a whole. In the wetter parts, evaporation never
exceeds precipitation, on average.

The average evaporation in the UK is about 11", almost all in
summer, and the average rainfall varies from 19" to 40+" in the
populated areas (and a LOT more in a few places).


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Most of the rainfall finishes up in the sea rather than reservoirs.

Steve

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In article ,
Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:

When it's not Winter most rainwater that falls evaporates before it
gets into reservoirs even when there isn't much Sun.

That is an oversimplification, bordering on a falsehood. It is
true for the driest parts of the country, but assuredly not for
the country as a whole. In the wetter parts, evaporation never
exceeds precipitation, on average.

The average evaporation in the UK is about 11", almost all in
summer, and the average rainfall varies from 19" to 40+" in the
populated areas (and a LOT more in a few places).

Most of the rainfall finishes up in the sea rather than reservoirs.

Fine. That is an entirely separate point and, if it were not,
would contradict what you said at first.

If you are comparing the water that reaches reservoirs (necessarily
only from their catchment area) with the evaporation over the whole
country, your statement is close to trolling. In the catchment area
of reservoirs, very little rainfall reaches the sea before it is
used in some way.

If you had said groundwater rather than reservoirs, it would have
been closer to the truth but, even there, I believe that claim is
more polemic than fact except in the drier parts of the country.
If you can provide actual figures, I should be interested - I did
not find any when I looked.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On Thu, 3 May 2012 11:52:12 +0100 (BST), wrote:

In article ,
Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:

When it's not Winter most rainwater that falls evaporates before it
gets into reservoirs even when there isn't much Sun.

That is an oversimplification, bordering on a falsehood. It is
true for the driest parts of the country, but assuredly not for
the country as a whole. In the wetter parts, evaporation never
exceeds precipitation, on average.

The average evaporation in the UK is about 11", almost all in
summer, and the average rainfall varies from 19" to 40+" in the
populated areas (and a LOT more in a few places).

Most of the rainfall finishes up in the sea rather than reservoirs.

Fine. That is an entirely separate point and, if it were not,
would contradict what you said at first.


The first line says reservoirs.

Steve

--
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On Thu, 3 May 2012 11:52:12 +0100 (BST), wrote:


If you can provide actual figures, I should be interested - I did
not find any when I looked.


I can't provide figures. I'm just quoting some drought expert I saw on
the TV. He was talking about reservoir catchments and I assume
evaporation over the same area.

Steve

--
Neural Network Software. http://www.npsl1.com
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. http://www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. http://www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. http://www.justnn.com

"Stephen Wolstenholme" wrote in message
.. .

On Thu, 3 May 2012 11:52:12 +0100 (BST), wrote:




I can't provide figures. I'm just quoting some drought expert I saw on
the TV. He was talking about reservoir catchments and I assume
evaporation over the same area.

Steve



Nick is correct in questioning your initial post and the evaporation
statement therein.
Rainfall loss due to evaporation is just small fraction as compared with
the amount lost
by outfall to the sea.

There was some comic (water board expert guy) on the box last night,
grumbling that a water grid
was to expensive to consider (as compared with gas and leccy) on the grounds
that water was
too heavy in comparison, to move around. Obviously he had not heard of
gravity !

This country is fortunate that most rainfall occurs up in them there hills
and most water needs are
down on the lowlands. It is the newly acquired commercial inertia and
parochial attitude of the water authorities
that is causing this drought status to blight our lives.

Bring on that grid !

Pete




Regards
Pete

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2012-05-02 23:15:16 +0100, "Christina Websell"
said:


"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2012-05-01 03:58:41 +0100, "Christina Websell"
said:
www.caterpillarrfountain.co.uk
Yes, it will. It always does.

It didn't last year. That's the reason the water levels in reservoirs
are so low.
--

It will sort itself out, we now have more rain than we need. Stop
panicking
about the Uk climate.
It might not do what you want, exactly as you want it, or when you want
it
but we will be fine in the end.

Not quite Christina. We don't have more rain than we need because
groundwater levels are still so low. It sounds absurd when I think of
the
lakes I saw stretching for miles yesterday and the streams we saw
overflowing their banks this morning. I can only assume that the ground
is dried out to such a depth that the water is running off it rather
than
penetrating it OR it's lying on top of it, unabsorbed, so far.
Officially, we're still in drought.
--
It will turn out OK. Really, it will.
Tina

It might or it might not. Resources are not being 'harvested', many
reservoirs (smaller ones) have been sold off and water companies are not
repairing leaks as they should. But right at this moment people are
worried and understandably so. While you or I or Joe Bloggs may be
concerned for one or two rows of beans and some sprouts, we learned
yesterday of one national garden centre chain which has cancelled their
order for 20 artic lorry loads of compost. Imagine how many tons that
runs into and the financial loss it implies. That is a huge knock on
effect on the suppliers and the hauliers and reflects the current state of
things. In trade publications it has been written that takings for some
places are way down over the last couple of week ends. All these things
are peoples' jobs, not their hobbies. So concern about water levels is a
real worry, not just a few people who can't water their veg plot. One
water company director was quoted as saying that to get water levels back
to normal in his area, it needs to rain every day from now until November.
I'm sure others will have much more scientific reasoning than I but it
does make me wonder why we're not at least talking seriously about a
national water grid.
--
One water director was quoted as saying! Could it be because the water
companies are now privatised?
It will all come right in the end. Britain has a temperate climate.
Tina

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 4 May 2012 00:14:18 +0100, "Christina Websell"
wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2012-05-02 23:15:16 +0100, "Christina Websell"
said:


"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2012-05-01 03:58:41 +0100, "Christina Websell"
said:
www.caterpillarrfountain.co.uk
Yes, it will. It always does.

It didn't last year. That's the reason the water levels in
reservoirs
are so low.
--

It will sort itself out, we now have more rain than we need. Stop
panicking
about the Uk climate.
It might not do what you want, exactly as you want it, or when you
want
it
but we will be fine in the end.

Not quite Christina. We don't have more rain than we need because
groundwater levels are still so low. It sounds absurd when I think of
the
lakes I saw stretching for miles yesterday and the streams we saw
overflowing their banks this morning. I can only assume that the
ground
is dried out to such a depth that the water is running off it rather
than
penetrating it OR it's lying on top of it, unabsorbed, so far.
Officially, we're still in drought.
--
It will turn out OK. Really, it will.
Tina

It might or it might not. Resources are not being 'harvested', many
reservoirs (smaller ones) have been sold off and water companies are not
repairing leaks as they should. But right at this moment people are
worried and understandably so. While you or I or Joe Bloggs may be
concerned for one or two rows of beans and some sprouts, we learned
yesterday of one national garden centre chain which has cancelled their
order for 20 artic lorry loads of compost. Imagine how many tons that
runs into and the financial loss it implies. That is a huge knock on
effect on the suppliers and the hauliers and reflects the current state
of
things. In trade publications it has been written that takings for some
places are way down over the last couple of week ends. All these things
are peoples' jobs, not their hobbies. So concern about water levels is
a
real worry, not just a few people who can't water their veg plot. One
water company director was quoted as saying that to get water levels
back
to normal in his area, it needs to rain every day from now until
November.
I'm sure others will have much more scientific reasoning than I but it
does make me wonder why we're not at least talking seriously about a
national water grid.
--
One water director was quoted as saying! Could it be because the water
companies are now privatised?
It will all come right in the end. Britain has a temperate climate.

Britain has a changing climate.
--

Martin


Not changed much over the last 70 years as far as I am concerned. I can
remember good and bad right the way through.

Mike


--

....................................

I'm an Angel, honest ! The horns are there just to keep the halo straight.

....................................

In article ,
says...

It will all come right in the end.

Like it did in the ice age?

Janet.

In article ,
Janet wrote:
In article ,
says...

It will all come right in the end.

Like it did in the ice age?

Or after the K-T event?


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On Thu, 3 May 2012 17:12:42 +0100, "Pete"
wrote:



"Stephen Wolstenholme" wrote in message
. ..

On Thu, 3 May 2012 11:52:12 +0100 (BST), wrote:




I can't provide figures. I'm just quoting some drought expert I saw on
the TV. He was talking about reservoir catchments and I assume
evaporation over the same area.

Steve



Nick is correct in questioning your initial post and the evaporation
statement therein.
Rainfall loss due to evaporation is just small fraction as compared with
the amount lost
by outfall to the sea.

I was comparing the figures for reservoirs not the sea. Evaporation
over reservoir catchments areas is a significant loss.

Read this for details:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drought...United_Kingdom

One line from the above:-
"UK droughts have similar consequences to other droughts elsewhere in
the world. The first of these is river and reservoir levels begin to
drop as rainfall fails to counteract evaporation."

Steve

--
Neural Network Software. http://www.npsl1.com
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. http://www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. http://www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. http://www.justnn.com

In article ,
Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
On Thu, 3 May 2012 17:12:42 +0100, "Pete"
wrote:

I can't provide figures. I'm just quoting some drought expert I saw on
the TV. He was talking about reservoir catchments and I assume
evaporation over the same area.

Nick is correct in questioning your initial post and the evaporation
statement therein.
Rainfall loss due to evaporation is just small fraction as compared with
the amount lost
by outfall to the sea.

I was comparing the figures for reservoirs not the sea. Evaporation
over reservoir catchments areas is a significant loss.

Your original statement, which is the one I contradicted, was:

When it's not Winter most rainwater that falls evaporates before it
gets into reservoirs even when there isn't much Sun.

I should be fascinated to know how rainwater can evaporate from
reservoirs before it gets into them.

And, for the record, my figures came from a paper in a referreed
journal, either by the Meterological Office or using data provided
by them. When I wrote the Climate FAQ, every authoritative claim
was backed up by such research.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On Fri, 4 May 2012 13:50:58 +0100 (BST), wrote:

In article ,
Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
On Thu, 3 May 2012 17:12:42 +0100, "Pete"
wrote:

I can't provide figures. I'm just quoting some drought expert I saw on
the TV. He was talking about reservoir catchments and I assume
evaporation over the same area.

Nick is correct in questioning your initial post and the evaporation
statement therein.
Rainfall loss due to evaporation is just small fraction as compared with
the amount lost
by outfall to the sea.

I was comparing the figures for reservoirs not the sea. Evaporation
over reservoir catchments areas is a significant loss.

Your original statement, which is the one I contradicted, was:

When it's not Winter most rainwater that falls evaporates before it
gets into reservoirs even when there isn't much Sun.

I should be fascinated to know how rainwater can evaporate from
reservoirs before it gets into them.


OK. Perhaps we differ in grammatical interpretation but I did say
"before it gets into reservoirs". I never said "from reservoirs".

Steve

--
Neural Network Software. http://www.npsl1.com
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. http://www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. http://www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. http://www.justnn.com

In article ,
Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:

OK. Perhaps we differ in grammatical interpretation but I did say
"before it gets into reservoirs". I never said "from reservoirs".

My mistake. Sorry. Anyway, what I said is true - only in the driest
parts does evaporation exceed precipitation in spring and autumn,
and it never exceeds precipitation in the wettest parts.

The television reflects the government of this country - by London,
from London and for London - and they still believe that anyone
outside the commuter belt goes around in shapeless trousers and
cloth caps, saying Ee, bah gom or similar.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Drove past Chelker this afternoon and noticed half-submerged trees along the edge.

Though the R Aire is still low at Gargrave