Hubby wrote this for a group on a different forum system and I thought it
might be useful he

Floods

While Britain does not suffer from some of the most horrendous weather
events experienced elsewhere in the world, we do have our fair share of
floods, and they are getting worse!

Flooding usually comes from 1 or more of 3 sources:

Exceptional rainfall
Heavy snowfall followed by a rapid thaw
Storm surges

Our flooding since the start of the new millennium has mainly been from
exceptional rainfall. This has given events such as the flash flood in
Boscastle in 2004 http://www.cornwalls.co.uk/Boscastle/flood.htm, the
repeated river overflows in Gloucestershire, Yorkshire, and elsewhere,
particularly in 2007 and 2010, and some towns and cities having areas
flooded by overflowing drains and excessive surface water on paved areas.

That latter effect has caught many people who live miles from the nearest
river and have never experience flooding before, nor expected to.

Meanwhile some towns and cities like York
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/ap...ds-wet-weather and
Tewksbury http://www.tewkesbury.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=3436 that have
known occasional flooding many times over the centuries have found it
becoming an annual event.

And it is continuing, as this report from today 23 June 2012 shows.
http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16251933

Depending on the level, flooding can be anything from an inconvenience to a
disaster. If your house or business is affected by deep flooding you will
almost certainly have to evacuate and in many cases people have not been
able to return to use the buildings for over a year. We have had *** members
in this situation and they initially went to a hotel or local evacuation
centre and were eventually moved to temporary accommodation, in 1 case a
caravan, for almost 18 months before the family could return to their home.
In some buildings the foundations or structure is so badly damaged the only
safe alternative is demolition.

Threats:

So, what are the threats from flooding?

Drowning - people drown in their buildings, in their cars, and on the street
when the water catches them unexpectedly or while trying to evacuate, and
often, tragically, while trying to rescue another person or animal
Electrocution - in a building or outside when power lines are brought down
or substations flooded
Chemicals - flushed out of their normal storage
Sewage and other biological hazards
Injury - Flood waters can move heavy objects e.g. trees, fences, cars, etc,
at high speed. If you are struck by one of these objects you might sustain
severe injury. The water also covers many sharp and otherwise dangerous
items, so moving through even still flood water can pose many hazards.
From *** member ******: "I was part of the emergency response in South
Yorkshire in 2007.
Flood water is nasty stuff containing all sorts of pathogens, as well as
chemicals.
Debris floats in layers; light stuff on the surface and heavier stuff sub
surface.
One of the major risks in flooded towns and cities isn't submerged obstacles
but submerged holes. In South Yorkshire lots of drain covers were lifted
away and several people went into these holes, luckily they survived.
Also the flood waters can rise very suddenly as we witnessed in Rotherham
when a retaining wall gave way lifting the level in our operational area by
a foot in seconds.
The airwave system went down, rendering communications none existent except
by VHF/UHF.
The power went out leaving the naughty ones free to go about their naughty
ways too, not to mention the fact that the emergency services were tied up
with the response.
There were some issues around movement even under escort. Apart from being
hindered by the rising waters, the number of abandoned vehicles, trapped
motorists and rubber-neckers presented a real hindrance. If you're trying to
leave a flooded area you may need to rethink your plan."

And what can you do to minimise the threat?

Precautions and preparations:

The first thing to do is evaluate your risk of flooding. Go online to the
Environment Agency website and research the flood risk and warnings for your
area.
http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk...eisure/floods/

Sign up for the SMS and email warnings and find out what other alert
measures might be available in your area.
Prepare a Flood Plan. This should include:
Safety plan - Know how to turn off your electricity, gas, and water
supplies. Do it before the flood water reaches the switches!
Protection plan - know what to do to prevent or delay water entering your
property. Store the equipment and supplies you will need e.g. sandbags,
flood boards, airbrick covers, etc, in a place you will be able to get them.
Storage plan - the things you will not take with you if you evacuate but
want to protect by moving them upstairs or to some other safe location. Keep
this plan easily available! In an emergency you have many things to think
about and a list will help you not to forget something you might otherwise
mourn the loss of. Think about pets, valuables (monetary and emotional),
vehicles, electronics, furnishings, etc. Remember that looting of evacuated
buildings is very common. Even if you make things safe from the water you
might lose them to thieves.
Evacuation plan - how will you get out, where will you go, what will you
take?
Contact plan - with numbers for family, relatives, and emergency services,
insurance companies, etc. Agree who someone who is out of the area when
flooding occurs should call if they cannot contact you directly, and close
and more distant meeting places that are not likely to be affected by the
flooding.

If you haven't already got one prepare an evacuation bag. Include:
A file with your essential documents - insurance policies, bank details,
vehicle paperwork, cheque book, list of emergency contact numbers,
electronic copy of family photographs, education certificates, birth and
marriage certificates, medical records and/or prescriptions, spare house and
car keys, etc
A full set of clothing for each family member and a change of socks and
underwear
Wash kit
Personal medicines
Phone charger
Some cash or a spare credit card
Torch
Biro and notebook
Special supplies for children or pets

What to do if it happens:

Keep informed about the situation - if you have online access keep visiting
relevant sites. Tune your radio to a local station and listen for news and
warnings. Watch the area around you.
Make sure neighbours and friends you care about also know what is happening
and what to do. Make arrangements to help one another where you can.
Put your Plans into action.
If the flooding is so sudden that you cannot get out, move yourself, family,
evacuation kit, and emergency supplies to the safest place in the building,
then prepare for signalling to potential rescuers.
If you can escape, secure your property and then get out early - the longer
you leave it the more difficult and dangerous evacuation will be.
Take great care when moving through water and test to ensure you do not get
in too deep. Six inches of moving water can knock you over if you are
walking and 2 feet can lift and float your car.
If someone gets into difficulties remember the 4 ways to help - Talk to give
advice and reassurance; Reach with a rope, branch or pole; Throw something
that will help them stay afloat; Row if there is a suitable boat or raft.
If you find yourself being carried away by fast flowing water: never put
your feet down - the basic defensive swimming posture is on the back with
the feet downstream in the direction of flow, knees bent and heels slightly
lower than the buttocks.
Never tie a rope around a rescuer/ person entering the water. Rescuers have
died clipped or tied to a rope, trapped underwater by the force of the river
and unable to cut their way free.
If you have had to move through flood water, then as soon as you are safe
get out of the wet clothes and wash and disinfect yourself and the clothes
Put your contact plan into action - let family and friends know you are safe
and how they can contact you
Contact your insurance company - and landlord if you have one - and employer
to let them know what has happened and how to contact you
If you need additional official help contact your council, and for other
help any support group you might have.

After the flood:

When the waters recede it will be time to take stock and begin recovery
action.

As soon as possible, return home to secure your property
Take care as you enter because:
flooring might be damaged or displaced,
other structures including staircases might be unsafe
there could be an electrical hazard
anything touched by the floodwater will be contaminated
there might be human or animal intruders
Make a list and loss-evaluation of any property destroyed or damaged and
take photographs or videos. Your insurance company will make arrangements to
assess the damage to the building and make arrangements for repair.
Do NOT switch on any of the mains utilities until they have been checked and
approved as safe by a professional.
Do NOT use any food or drink any water that might have been in contact with
flood water. Water under pressure might have been forced into bottles, jars,
or packets. Thoroughly clean the outside of sealed tins before opening. Do
not drink tap water until it has been declared safe and then not until you
have run enough through your water system to thoroughly flush and clean it.
If you are cleaning up yourself expect:
Outside: fallen walls and fences, all plants other than trees and large
bushes washed away, missing rubbish bins, muck and rubbish everywhere
Inside: destroyed carpets, falling plaster, disgusting smells, ruined
cupboards/furniture/kitchen white goods/stuff in the garage/workshop/shed
(including preps?)
If you need to pump out water including from under the floorboards, you can
hire a pump or might be able to get one from the council. Check with your
insurance company first, this might be part of their tasks and only to be
done when their contractor decides it is safe to do so.
If you are cleaning up yourself you can use ordinary cleaning products, a
garden hose, etc, but do wear overalls and rubber gloves and boots. You
might need a skip or lots of rubbish bags. The council might arrange extra
collections.
It will take much longer for the house to dry and be restored than you
think: be patient!
Be aware, especially if you are living close-by in a caravan, that thieves
will be waiting to take any opportunity to steal materials as your home is
being repaired. Some of our members had the new copper piping and other
fittings stolen 3 times before the property was repaired enough to be
secured!

Floods are bad news, but you can limit their effects and dangers by proper
awareness, planning and response, and as in all emergencies many of the
preps you do will be as useful for this one as any of the others.


--
--

http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

Martin wrote:



Very good.

The Ouse floods every year, even in the 1940s when I was kid.
Most of the area that flooded then had no housing on it. Today it
has.
--

Martin


Excellent point, plus drainage of agricultural land has increased
dramatically stressing the brooks and rivers.
Rog

On Jul 6, 10:17*pm, "Ophelia" wrote:
Hubby wrote this for a group on a different forum system and I thought it
might be useful he

Floods

While Britain does not suffer from some of the most horrendous weather
events experienced elsewhere in the world, we do have our fair share of
floods, and they are getting worse!

Flooding usually comes from 1 or more of 3 sources:

Exceptional rainfall
Heavy snowfall followed by a rapid thaw
Storm surges

Our flooding since the start of the new millennium has mainly been from
exceptional rainfall. This has given events such as the flash flood in
Boscastle in 2004http://www.cornwalls.co.uk/Boscastle/flood.htm, the
repeated river overflows in Gloucestershire, Yorkshire, and elsewhere,
particularly in 2007 and 2010, and some towns and cities having areas
flooded by overflowing drains and excessive surface water on paved areas.

That latter effect has caught many people who live miles from the nearest
river and have never experience flooding before, nor expected to.

Meanwhile some towns and cities like Yorkhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/apr/29/uk-floods-winds-wet-weatherand
Tewksburyhttp://www.tewkesbury.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=3436that have
known occasional flooding many times over the centuries have found it
becoming an annual event.

And it is continuing, as this report from today 23 June 2012 shows.http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16251933

Depending on the level, flooding can be anything from an inconvenience to a
disaster. If your house or business is affected by deep flooding you will
almost certainly have to evacuate and in many cases people have not been
able to return to use the buildings for over a year. We have had *** members
in this situation and they initially went to a hotel or local evacuation
centre and were eventually moved to temporary accommodation, in 1 case a
caravan, for almost 18 months before the family could return to their home.
In some buildings the foundations or structure is so badly damaged the only
safe alternative is demolition.

Threats:

So, what are the threats from flooding?

Drowning - people drown in their buildings, in their cars, and on the street
when the water catches them unexpectedly or while trying to evacuate, and
often, tragically, while trying to rescue another person or animal
Electrocution - in a building or outside when power lines are brought down
or substations flooded
Chemicals - flushed out of their normal storage
Sewage and other biological hazards
Injury - Flood waters can move heavy objects e.g. trees, fences, cars, etc,
at high speed. If you are struck by one of these objects you might sustain
severe injury. The water also covers many sharp and otherwise dangerous
items, so moving through even still flood water can pose many hazards.
From *** member ******: "I was part of the emergency response in South
Yorkshire in 2007.
Flood water is nasty stuff containing all sorts of pathogens, as well as
chemicals.
Debris floats in layers; light stuff on the surface and heavier stuff sub
surface.
One of the major risks in flooded towns and cities isn't submerged obstacles
but submerged holes. In South Yorkshire lots of drain covers were lifted
away and several people went into these holes, luckily they survived.
Also the flood waters can rise very suddenly as we witnessed in Rotherham
when a retaining wall gave way lifting the level in our operational area by
a foot in seconds.
The airwave system went down, rendering communications none existent except
by VHF/UHF.
The power went out leaving the naughty ones free to go about their naughty
ways too, not to mention the fact that the emergency services were tied up
with the response.
There were some issues around movement even under escort. Apart from being
hindered by the rising waters, the number of abandoned vehicles, trapped
motorists and rubber-neckers presented a real hindrance. If you're trying to
leave a flooded area you may need to rethink your plan."

And what can you do to minimise the threat?

Precautions and preparations:

The first thing to do is evaluate your risk of flooding. Go online to the
Environment Agency website and research the flood risk and warnings for your
area.http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk...eisure/floods/

Sign up for the SMS and email warnings and find out what other alert
measures might be available in your area.
Prepare a Flood Plan. This should include:
Safety plan - Know how to turn off your electricity, gas, and water
supplies. Do it before the flood water reaches the switches!
Protection plan - know what to do to prevent or delay water entering your
property. Store the equipment and supplies you will need e.g. sandbags,
flood boards, airbrick covers, etc, in a place you will be able to get them.
Storage plan - the things you will not take with you if you evacuate but
want to protect by moving them upstairs or to some other safe location. Keep
this plan easily available! In an emergency you have many things to think
about and a list will help you not to forget something you might otherwise
mourn the loss of. Think about pets, valuables (monetary and emotional),
vehicles, electronics, furnishings, etc. Remember that looting of evacuated
buildings is very common. Even if you make things safe from the water you
might lose them to thieves.
Evacuation plan - how will you get out, where will you go, what will you
take?
Contact plan - with numbers for family, relatives, and emergency services,
insurance companies, etc. Agree who someone who is out of the area when
flooding occurs should call if they cannot contact you directly, and close
and more distant meeting places that are not likely to be affected by the
flooding.

If you haven't already got one prepare an evacuation bag. Include:
A file with your essential documents - insurance policies, bank details,
vehicle paperwork, cheque book, list of emergency contact numbers,
electronic copy of family photographs, education certificates, birth and
marriage certificates, medical records and/or prescriptions, spare house and
car keys, etc
A full set of clothing for each family member and a change of socks and
underwear
Wash kit
Personal medicines
Phone charger
Some cash or a spare credit card
Torch
Biro and notebook
Special supplies for children or pets

What to do if it happens:

Keep informed about the situation - if you have online access keep visiting
relevant sites. Tune your radio to a local station and listen for news and
warnings. Watch the area around you.
Make sure neighbours and friends you care about also know what is happening
and what to do. Make arrangements to help one another where you can.
Put your Plans into action.
If the flooding is so sudden that you cannot get out, move yourself, family,
evacuation kit, and emergency supplies to the safest place in the building,
then prepare for signalling to potential rescuers.
If you can escape, secure your property and then get out early - the longer
you leave it the more difficult and dangerous evacuation will be.
Take great care when moving through water and test to ensure you do not get
in too deep. Six inches of moving water can knock you over if you are
walking and 2 feet can lift and float your car.
If someone gets into difficulties remember the 4 ways to help - Talk to give
advice and reassurance; Reach with a rope, branch or pole; Throw something
that will help them stay afloat; Row if there is a suitable boat or raft.
If you find yourself being carried away by fast flowing water: never put
your feet down - the basic defensive swimming posture is on the back with
the feet downstream in the direction of flow, knees bent and heels slightly
lower than the buttocks.
Never tie a rope around a rescuer/ person entering the water. Rescuers have
died clipped or tied to a rope, trapped underwater by the force of the river
and unable to cut their way free.
If you have had to move through flood water, then as soon as you are safe
get out of the wet clothes and wash and disinfect yourself and the clothes
Put your contact plan into action - let family and friends know you are safe
and how they can contact you
Contact your insurance company - and landlord if you have one - and employer
to let them know what has happened and how to contact you
If you need additional official help contact your council, and for other
help any support group you might have.

After the flood:

When the waters recede it will be time to take stock and begin recovery
action.

As soon as possible, return home to secure your property
Take care as you enter because:
flooring might be damaged or displaced,
other structures including staircases might be unsafe
there could be an electrical hazard
anything touched by the floodwater will be contaminated
there might be human or animal intruders
Make a list and loss-evaluation of any property destroyed or damaged and
take photographs or videos. Your insurance company will make arrangements to
assess the damage to the building and make arrangements for repair.
Do NOT switch on any of the mains utilities until they have been checked and
approved as safe by a professional.
Do NOT use any food or drink any water that might have been in contact with
flood water. Water under pressure might have been forced into bottles, jars,
or packets. Thoroughly clean the outside of sealed tins before opening. Do
not drink tap water until it has been declared safe and then not until you
have run enough through your water system to thoroughly flush and clean it.

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 6 Jul 2012 22:17:37 +0100, "Ophelia"
wrote:

Hubby wrote this for a group on a different forum system and I thought it
might be useful he

Floods
big snip

Very good.

The Ouse floods every year, even in the 1940s when I was kid.
Most of the area that flooded then had no housing on it. Today it has.
--

Isn't it about time a hovercraft or two was used in floods? There are many
in the country, military, sport and commercial, yet when there's flooding,
not one to be seen.

Steve

On 07/07/2012 12:37, Martin wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jul 2012 12:11:09 +0100, "shazzbat"
wrote:


"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 6 Jul 2012 22:17:37 +0100, "Ophelia"
wrote:

Hubby wrote this for a group on a different forum system and I thought it
might be useful he

Floods
big snip

Very good.

The Ouse floods every year, even in the 1940s when I was kid.
Most of the area that flooded then had no housing on it. Today it has.
--

Isn't it about time a hovercraft or two was used in floods? There are many
in the country, military, sport and commercial, yet when there's flooding,
not one to be seen.

A good suggestion.



Well I'd have thought that a lot of the timber decking should just rest
on supports and have flotation of some sort built under it so that it
could serve as a raft if needed in floods.
I remember seeing; on one of the house building programmes; a house
close to the river being built in a large raft of polystyrene and with
posts at each corner so it could rise up with the rising water.
David @ the wet end of Swansea bay where it's trying to rain yet again.

On Sat, 7 Jul 2012 12:50:50 +0100, Sacha wrote:

Isn't it about time a hovercraft or two was used in floods? There are
many in the country, military, sport and commercial, yet when there's
flooding, not one to be seen.

Would they set up too much wash?

Very little wash but the air escaping from underneath around the skirt
produces lots of spray and the socking big fan on the back (or other air
outlets) used for steering one heck of "draft". They aren't the most
controllable of things either, simple rowing boat is a lot more effective
and quieter enabling conversation between rescuers and rescuees.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 07/07/2012 01:53 PM, David Hill wrote:
On 07/07/2012 12:37, Martin wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jul 2012 12:11:09 +0100, "shazzbat"
wrote:


"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 6 Jul 2012 22:17:37 +0100, "Ophelia"
wrote:

Hubby wrote this for a group on a different forum system and I
thought it
might be useful he

Floods
big snip

Very good.

The Ouse floods every year, even in the 1940s when I was kid.
Most of the area that flooded then had no housing on it. Today it has.
--

Isn't it about time a hovercraft or two was used in floods? There are
many
in the country, military, sport and commercial, yet when there's
flooding,
not one to be seen.

A good suggestion.



Well I'd have thought that a lot of the timber decking should just rest
on supports and have flotation of some sort built under it so that it
could serve as a raft if needed in floods.
I remember seeing; on one of the house building programmes; a house
close to the river being built in a large raft of polystyrene and with
posts at each corner so it could rise up with the rising water.
David @ the wet end of Swansea bay where it's trying to rain yet again.


Don't they build houses on concrete pontoons in the Netherlands? I
remember reading an article about it some years ago, the whole thing is
anchored by chain to the ground so it will ride above but not float away.

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2012-07-07 08:27:31 +0100, Chris Hogg said:

On Fri, 6 Jul 2012 23:19:56 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:



Well I read that and didn't learn a single new thing. I think your
husband should stick to his present job, whatever that is.

Not everyone is as perspicacious as you Harry. Shame you had to
reproduce the whole thing just to tell us.

I think it's a shame he makes such a prat of himself rubbishing something
relevant to current weather conditions in many parts of the country. We
know at least one urgler who has been flooded out of their home twice this
year. I think I'm correct in saying that O's husband is a survival expert
and such information may well be of use to any one of us in the prevailing
weather. Given Harry's usual responses it would amaze me to hear he can
learn anything at all.

Not to worry David (hubby) will be happy to help in any way he can and
know it alls like harry don't bother him one little bit
--
--

http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

On 07/07/2012 02:45 PM, Martin wrote:
Don't they build houses on concrete pontoons in the Netherlands? I
remember reading an article about it some years ago, the whole thing is
anchored by chain to the ground so it will ride above but not float away.
Most houses are built on piles, the older houses were built on wooden
piles which still survive after hundreds of years, the newer houses
are built on ferro concrete piles. The houses on concrete pontoons are
houseboats

The type of construction I was talking about is shown in the picture
from Maasbommel.

http://inspirationgreen.com/floating-homes.html

I don't know anything about these people, just showed up in a search.

Somehow I always think of houseboats as mobile, but its true they mostly
stay tied up (not particularly seaworthy!)

On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 14:48:17 +0200, Martin wrote:

Very little wash but the air escaping from underneath around the skirt
produces lots of spray and the socking big fan on the back (or other
air outlets) used for steering one heck of "draft". They aren't the
most controllable of things either, simple rowing boat is a lot more
effective and quieter enabling conversation between rescuers and
rescuees.

but not much good in a strong current.

I wondered about that but a hover craft hovering doesn't have very much
of itself in the water... But then you don't have much in the way of
force to control it either.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article , says...

On 2012-07-07 08:27:31 +0100, Chris Hogg said:

On Fri, 6 Jul 2012 23:19:56 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:



Well I read that and didn't learn a single new thing. I think your
husband should stick to his present job, whatever that is.

Not everyone is as perspicacious as you Harry. Shame you had to
reproduce the whole thing just to tell us.

I think it's a shame he makes such a prat of himself rubbishing
something relevant to current weather conditions in many parts of the
country.

Harry lives in Herefordshire where flooding is routine and people are
well accustomed to dealing with it

We know at least one urgler who has been flooded out of their
home twice this year.

queried by another urgler with obviously far more knowledge of the
aftermath of flooding (not Harry).

I think I'm correct in saying that O's husband
is a survival expert

I suggest you do some googling before parroting anything claimed from
that source.


Janet

"Janet" wrote in message
...
In article , says...

On 2012-07-07 08:27:31 +0100, Chris Hogg said:

On Fri, 6 Jul 2012 23:19:56 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:



Well I read that and didn't learn a single new thing. I think your
husband should stick to his present job, whatever that is.

Not everyone is as perspicacious as you Harry. Shame you had to
reproduce the whole thing just to tell us.

I think it's a shame he makes such a prat of himself rubbishing
something relevant to current weather conditions in many parts of the
country.

Harry lives in Herefordshire where flooding is routine and people are
well accustomed to dealing with it

We know at least one urgler who has been flooded out of their
home twice this year.

queried by another urgler with obviously far more knowledge of the
aftermath of flooding (not Harry).

I think I'm correct in saying that O's husband
is a survival expert

I suggest you do some googling before parroting anything claimed from
that source.


Noted and recorded!

For general information, Janet Baraclough has been pursuing a campaign of
harassment against us for more than 10 years, simply because I defended
another poster against one of her spiteful and vindictive attacks. Janet
has already been served with a Cease and Desist notice but continues to push
her luck. It won't hold out forever.

You can read David's post on flood precautions here, or any of his many
others on emergency preparedness and response written for other groups to
which I can give you links, and his web site at:

www.tfns.co.uk/about_the_author.htm

You can then decide for yourselves whether he is qualified to write such
material!

I will not continue this here, but if anyone has questions, my email address
is and David or I will be more than happy to respond!
Best
O


http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

In article ,
says...

"Martin" wrote in message

Isn't it about time a hovercraft or two was used in floods?

Beneath the surface of any urban/rural floodwater are multiple hidden
snags that could rip the bottom out of hovercraft or snag the propeller
from any outboard. That's why every vessel you see used in UK flood
rescues is proceeding gingerly by oars or paddles, rather than motor.

Janet

In article , says...

Not to worry David (hubby) will be happy to help in any way he can and
know it alls like harry don't bother him one little bit

I'd recommend advice from Harry, inhabitant of Herefordshire, a county
well experienced in floods, over an author of fantasy EOTWAWKI apocalypse
novels.
Janet

On Sat, 7 Jul 2012 15:48:06 +0100, Janet wrote:

In article , says...

Not to worry David (hubby) will be happy to help in any way he can and
know it alls like harry don't bother him one little bit

I'd recommend advice from Harry, inhabitant of Herefordshire, a county
well experienced in floods, over an author of fantasy EOTWAWKI apocalypse
novels.
Janet

Now I'm confused. Are there two Harrys in this newsgroup, one in
Hertfordshire who knows what he's talking about and another who not
that long ago advised someone relatively inexperienced to tackle a
problem using illegal herbicides and advised on how the illegal
herbicides might be procured illegally.

If there are two Harrys then we need to have some way to differentiate
between the two as I, and no doubt others, are guilty of assuming that
there is only one.

Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the East End of Swansea Bay. We don't yet have a
"dah dah dah dah dee dee deeee" theme tune but we're working on it.

Can't tell astilbe from aranthus
But I can from an acanthus!