In article , Rod
writes
"Chris" ] wrote in message
]...

I was thinking of, say, one each of: gooseberry; black currant; white
currant; red currant.
How big would the cage need to be?
And what varieties would you recommend?

Your Red /White Currants and gooseberries won't take much room at all
if you grow them as cordons, grow 2 of each
red/white as single cordons and 1 gooseberry trained as a double
cordon, you'll need about 8-10ft of row with posts and
wire for those. Quality is much better than you get from bushes and you
can pick your gooseberries without getting cut
to ribbons.
I would add to that half a dozen raspberry canes, a few strawberries
say 2 or3 of perhaps 4 varieties to spread the
season, and a blackcurrant - I prefer the older tastier varieties like
Wellington XXX.

Now that's very interesting, Rod - I hadn't thought of cordons.
It sounds a bit advanced for me but I'll read up on it.
The thing I haven't had much success with is finding out about the fruit
cage design. I've done a thorough web search.

There are very expensive commercial ones - but I was thinking of three
inch square posts set in those metal spikes you can get from B&Q.
Do you reckon 2m x 4m and 2m high would be enough?
I'd like to see some, really, to get design ideas.
--
Chris

In article , Alan Gould
writes
Sunberry may be what we know as worcesterberry. It grows as a small
very dark gooseberry - we are just beginning to pick our two bushes of
it this week. They are interesting enough as a novelty, but we prefer
to rely on straight gooseberries - and later on blackberries for
reliable annual supplies.

Alan - do you use a fruit cage?
I'm still casting about for design ideas.
--
Chris

Alan Gould wrote in message ...
In article oprq9t35x7wxhha1@localhost, Tim timnothy.cohsalpleangmer@a
pk.at writes
What's a sunberry ? I've never heard of them.

Another blackberry-raspberry cross. Shiny fruit, not the best tasting of
these hybrids.

Ah, so. I like the two fruits individually so much I don't think I'd like
a
cross.

Sunberry may be what we know as worcesterberry.

No- sunberry is given as raspberry x blackberry in Hessayon's
'the Fruit Expert'. Worcesterberry is in the currant family.

It grows as a small very
dark gooseberry - we are just beginning to pick our two bushes of it
this week. They are interesting enough as a novelty, but we prefer to
rely on straight gooseberries - and later on blackberries for reliable
annual supplies.

According to Joanna Readman in her 'Fruity Stories'; a jostaberry is a
cross between a blackcurrant and a gooseberry; and a worcesterberry is a
small, purple, very thorny gooseberry - I believe it to be a blackberry
cross with gooseberry.


I think you mean blackcurrant, in any case.

have fun,

--
Anton

In article , anton
writes

Alan Gould wrote in message ...

Sunberry may be what we know as worcesterberry.

No- sunberry is given as raspberry x blackberry in Hessayon's
'the Fruit Expert'. Worcesterberry is in the currant family.

I can also confirm, having seen both and grown one, that Worcesterberry
looks like a black gooseberry, whereas sunberry looks like an oversized
raspberry.


According to Joanna Readman in her 'Fruity Stories'; a jostaberry is a
cross between a blackcurrant and a gooseberry; and a worcesterberry is a
small, purple, very thorny gooseberry - I believe it to be a blackberry
cross with gooseberry.


I think you mean blackcurrant, in any case.

Anton is right

The blackberry is in the rose family and the gooseberry is in the
currant family.
There are very few hybrids between different genera and I can't offhand
think of any between different families.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:22:27 +0100, Kay Easton
wrote:

In article , anton
writes

Alan Gould wrote in message ...

Sunberry may be what we know as worcesterberry.

No-sunberry is given as raspberry x blackberry in Hessayon's
'the Fruit Expert'. Worcesterberry is in the currant family.

I can also confirm, having seen both and grown one, that Worcesterberry
looks like a black gooseberry, whereas sunberry looks like an oversized
raspberry.


According to Joanna Readman in her 'Fruity Stories'; a jostaberry is a
cross between a blackcurrant and a gooseberry;

I know tha't right, it comes from German: Blackcurrant = JOhannesbeer
Gooseberry = STAchelbeer hence JOSTA.
Tim.

"Chris" ] wrote in message ]...
In article , Rod
writes
"Chris" ] wrote in message
]...

I was thinking of, say, one each of: gooseberry; black currant; white
currant; red currant.
How big would the cage need to be?
And what varieties would you recommend?

Your Red /White Currants and gooseberries won't take much room at all
if you grow them as cordons, grow 2 of each
red/white as single cordons and 1 gooseberry trained as a double
cordon, you'll need about 8-10ft of row with posts and
wire for those. Quality is much better than you get from bushes and you
can pick your gooseberries without getting cut
to ribbons.
I would add to that half a dozen raspberry canes, a few strawberries
say 2 or3 of perhaps 4 varieties to spread the
season, and a blackcurrant - I prefer the older tastier varieties like
Wellington XXX.

Now that's very interesting, Rod - I hadn't thought of cordons.
It sounds a bit advanced for me but I'll read up on it.
The thing I haven't had much success with is finding out about the fruit
cage design. I've done a thorough web search.

There are very expensive commercial ones - but I was thinking of three
inch square posts set in those metal spikes you can get from B&Q.
Do you reckon 2m x 4m and 2m high would be enough?
I'd like to see some, really, to get design ideas.
--
Chris

The cordon currants and gooseberries are very easy, no rocket science involved. It's possible you my be able to get
partly trained plants to give you a start but if not, any good strong plant preferably with good roots and not too many
stems will do. Just cut all but the best strong straight shoot out when you plant for a single cordon, 2 for a double.
Tie them in to a vertical cane for the singles, to two 45 degree canes for double. The double might take longer to form
because you'll need to gradually pull the 2 shoot down nearly horizontal in the first season, during the first winter
decide how far apart you want the 2 upright stems to be and at that point prune to an upward facing bud, those buds will
grow to form the 2 vertical stems of your cordon. Maintenance is just removing completely any unwanted new basal stems,
keeping the main stems tied in to the canes and 'summer pruning' which is just cutting all new growth on the fruiting
'spurs' back to one or 2 buds sometime in early June - then pick your fruit when it's ready. You'll need post & wire
support to tie your canes to.
The size of your cage will depend to some extent whether you're going to have some sort of door and walk around your
crops inside - in which case you need to allow room for paths or headlands.
If on the other hand you're going to open the side netting to get in you could probably manage with less space but the
price you pay is the bother of unfixing and refixing the net each time.
If you need paths, the post and wire rows for cordon currants and Tayberry would need to be at least a metre apart and
not much less than a metre away from the side netting. A full bush blackcurrant will occupy at least 1.8metres diameter
plus room to work around it. Raspberries will need post and wire and minimum 1 metre from side netting and 1.5 metre
from other stuff on wire like the currants. Strawberries are short term crops so probably best given their own space and
protection outside the cage.
That's a long winded way of saying your cage is on the small side to include everything the congregation has suggested
to you. The 2m posts are fine. You will need something across the top to stop the netting sagging, if you used wood for
that then a 2metre span between supports would probably be the limit, so posts at 2m x 2m, cage 4 x 3, the inside posts
could be part of your post and wire rows. Only snag with wood for the cage is just that - snagging the netting. Netting
from local garden centre or cheaper and more choice of types from Knowle Nets
http://www.knowlenets.co.uk/shop/system/index.html

I intend replacing the side netting on ours by wire netting after spending the week breathing fire down the neck of a
colleague who wrecked the sides of the cage with a strimmer and let the blackbirds into the cherries. You need something
like a gravel board at the bottom to hold the net down and stop things getting underneath.

Rod

Forgot to mention snow, normal roof netting will not withstand heavy snow, and your cage roof must be very substantial
if you intend leaving netting over the winter. We have pigeon netting under the roof netting and it's been OK so long as
we go and knock the snow off if it gets heavy.
Knowle Nets site is new to me, they didn't have one last time we bought from them so look under fruit cage /parts for
the netting you need.
Did you see my previous reply to your first post about making the structure from galvanised steel waterpipe and
keeklamps - kinder to the netting than wooden posts and stronger than Ally tubes.

Rod

In article , anton
writes

AG: Sunberry may be what we know as worcesterberry.


No- sunberry is given as raspberry x blackberry in Hessayon's
'the Fruit Expert'. Worcesterberry is in the currant family.

It grows as a small very
dark gooseberry - we are just beginning to pick our two bushes of it
this week. They are interesting enough as a novelty, but we prefer to
rely on straight gooseberries - and later on blackberries for reliable
annual supplies.

According to Joanna Readman in her 'Fruity Stories'; a jostaberry is a
cross between a blackcurrant and a gooseberry; and a worcesterberry is a
small, purple, very thorny gooseberry - I believe it to be a blackberry
cross with gooseberry.


I think you mean blackcurrant, in any case.

I've checked Joanna Readman's text - and my quotation of her is as she
wrote it. In some books, worcesterberry is described as a wild fruit.
I can confirm that ours are very hardy and disease resistant, though the
fruit is nothing very special.

Chambers English Dictionary defines worcesterberry thus: " A N.American
species of gooseberry (Ribes divaricatum), not a hybrid" R. div. is
given in Zander as E.Coastal(USA) Black Gooseberry, Common gooseberry.

have fun,

Thanks, we always do when we are gardening :-))
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

Tim wrote in message ...

According to Joanna Readman in her 'Fruity Stories'; a jostaberry
is a
cross between a blackcurrant and a gooseberry;

I know tha't right, it comes from German: Blackcurrant = JOhannesbeer
Gooseberry = STAchelbeer hence JOSTA.
Tim.

And they produce beautiful tasting fruits, tending towards blackcurrant
in taste, but of a size between blackcurrant and gooseberry. Cutting
will root easily, but they do grow quite large to get decent fruit. They
also do get eaten by the gooseberry sawfly larvae.

Mike
www.british-naturism.org.uk

Xref: kermit uk.rec.gardening:151178

On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:55:45 +0100, Michael Berridge
wrote:


Tim wrote in message ...

According to Joanna Readman in her 'Fruity Stories'; a jostaberry
is a
cross between a blackcurrant and a gooseberry;

I know tha't right, it comes from German: Blackcurrant = JOhannesbeer
Gooseberry = STAchelbeer hence JOSTA.
Tim.

And they produce beautiful tasting fruits, tending towards blackcurrant
in taste, but of a size between blackcurrant and gooseberry. Cutting
will root easily, but they do grow quite large to get decent fruit. They
also do get eaten by the gooseberry sawfly larvae.

...and birds, dammit. I never heard th eterm in the UK, as I wasn't
interested in gardening then, but how do poeple pronounce the 'j' in
jostaberry, as a 'J' or as a 'Y' ? It should be like "yostaberry". I
suppose.
Tim.

In article , Rod
writes
http://www.knowlenets.co.uk/shop/system/index.html

Thanks for your help, Rod.
I tried the above link with three browsers and none of them would load
the page! It might pay that company to use simpler HTML.
My garden centre has some stiffish black netting in a 2 metre width -
with a square mesh of about a centimetre.

I did look at your suggestion for metal posts - I just feel more
comfortable working with wood.

I reckon I've room for about 3 metres wide by perhaps 6 or 8 metres
long. It's a pity if internal supports are needed - but I suppose they
could be thinner - and for a double row of cordons using the internal
posts to hold the wires I would have to use two internals within the
three metres, which is perhaps a bit over the top?

The internal posts might be 2 x 2 and the top beams 2 x 1?
4 x 1 gravel boards at the bottom.

It comes out a bit expensive for an amateur gardener - maybe three
hundred quid - but it might be worth it in fun and education.
--
Chris

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Xref: kermit uk.rec.gardening:151325


"Chris" ] wrote in message ]...
In article , Rod
writes
http://www.knowlenets.co.uk/shop/system/index.html

Thanks for your help, Rod.
I tried the above link with three browsers and none of them would load
the page! It might pay that company to use simpler HTML.
My garden centre has some stiffish black netting in a 2 metre width -
with a square mesh of about a centimetre.

I did look at your suggestion for metal posts - I just feel more
comfortable working with wood.

I reckon I've room for about 3 metres wide by perhaps 6 or 8 metres
long. It's a pity if internal supports are needed - but I suppose they
could be thinner - and for a double row of cordons using the internal
posts to hold the wires I would have to use two internals within the
three metres, which is perhaps a bit over the top?

The internal posts might be 2 x 2 and the top beams 2 x 1?
4 x 1 gravel boards at the bottom.

It comes out a bit expensive for an amateur gardener - maybe three
hundred quid - but it might be worth it in fun and education.

and fruit :-))
Commercial ones aren't cheap and yours will probably be stronger than the ally ones. I suggest you persist with Knowle nets though
because they will advise and supply top netting the right size so you don't have any stitching to do. Do bear in mind my advice come
from somebody who likes a *lot* of fruit and adjust your plan accordingly.

Rod

In article , Rod
writes
Commercial ones aren't cheap and yours will probably be stronger than
the ally ones. I suggest you persist with Knowle nets though because
they will advise and supply top netting the right size so you don't
have any stitching to do. Do bear in mind my advice come from somebody
who likes a *lot* of fruit and adjust your plan accordingly.

Wilco. I'll phone Knowle Nets because I can't get their site no matter
what I do - even adding it to the trusted zone - and trying all popular
browsers - and there is no other site I can't get. Has anyone else
tried it?
http://www.knowlenets.co.uk/shop/system/index.html
--
Chris

In article ], Chris ]
writes
In article , Rod
writes
Commercial ones aren't cheap and yours will probably be stronger than
the ally ones. I suggest you persist with Knowle nets though because
they will advise and supply top netting the right size so you don't
have any stitching to do. Do bear in mind my advice come from somebody
who likes a *lot* of fruit and adjust your plan accordingly.

Wilco. I'll phone Knowle Nets because I can't get their site no matter
what I do - even adding it to the trusted zone - and trying all popular
browsers - and there is no other site I can't get. Has anyone else
tried it?
http://www.knowlenets.co.uk/shop/system/index.html

Hmmm ... I wonder if I can't get that site because I'm using a HOSTS
file?
Has anyone managed to get it yet?
Further thoughts on construction (It takes me ages to get round to
actually *doing* anything!). Maybe I could dispense with the metal
spikes and just put the three-inch square stakes straight into the
ground? After all, it will be a triangulated structure - and won't be
carrying much weight.
B&Q have the posts in 2.4 m lengths - and so perhaps 0.4 m into the
ground would be enough. What do you reckon?
--
Chris

"Chris" ] wrote in message
]...


there is no other site I can't get. Has anyone else
tried it?
http://www.knowlenets.co.uk/shop/system/index.html

Hmmm ... I wonder if I can't get that site because I'm using a HOSTS
file?
Has anyone managed to get it yet?

Yes I got on fine this morning.

Ophelia