A young couple I know have a organic smallholding, fruit and veg.and cut
flowers.They live in Gloucestershire very near the Vale of Evesham,
maybe that is not a good place to be for starters, anyway they are
really struggling to make ends meet, no time for trialing new products
etc.etc. Is this the same for most organic smallholders, are there no
grants to help young peeps trying to make a living, it does seem a shame
if they have to give up. They do do veg.and fruit boxes but there is not
much to be made in that.

kate

Seems to me that if we are forced to accept GM crops etc as predicted then
our entire Organic Farming community will be decimated
The last few weeks of unrelenting heat and lack of rain have wrecked my
organic garden despite tons of compost i pile on every year


"Kate Morgan" wrote in message
. ..
A young couple I know have a organic smallholding, fruit and veg.and cut
flowers.They live in Gloucestershire very near the Vale of Evesham,
maybe that is not a good place to be for starters, anyway they are
really struggling to make ends meet, no time for trialing new products
etc.etc. Is this the same for most organic smallholders, are there no
grants to help young peeps trying to make a living, it does seem a shame
if they have to give up. They do do veg.and fruit boxes but there is not
much to be made in that.

kate

"Kate Morgan" wrote in message
. ..
: A young couple I know have a organic smallholding, fruit and veg.and cut
: flowers.They live in Gloucestershire very near the Vale of Evesham,
: maybe that is not a good place to be for starters, anyway they are
: really struggling to make ends meet, no time for trialing new products
: etc.etc. Is this the same for most organic smallholders, are there no
: grants to help young peeps trying to make a living, it does seem a shame
: if they have to give up. They do do veg.and fruit boxes but there is not
: much to be made in that.
:
: kate

Do they do farmers' markets in the towns which seem to be popular, but then
of course they've got travel expenses.

K

Kate Morgan wrote:
: A young couple I know have a organic smallholding, fruit and veg.and
: cut flowers.They live in Gloucestershire very near the Vale of
: Evesham, maybe that is not a good place to be for starters, anyway
: they are really struggling to make ends meet, no time for trialing
: new products etc.etc. Is this the same for most organic smallholders,
: are there no grants to help young peeps trying to make a living, it
: does seem a shame if they have to give up. They do do veg.and fruit
: boxes but there is not much to be made in that.
:
: kate

I wonder if specialising in something like lavender would be any good

Robert The Devil's Advocate www.pafc.co.uk

Kate Morgan wrote:
: A young couple I know have a organic smallholding, fruit and veg.and
: cut flowers.They live in Gloucestershire very near the Vale of
: Evesham, maybe that is not a good place to be for starters, anyway
: they are really struggling to make ends meet, no time for trialing
: new products etc.etc. Is this the same for most organic smallholders,
: are there no grants to help young peeps trying to make a living, it
: does seem a shame if they have to give up. They do do veg.and fruit
: boxes but there is not much to be made in that.
:
: kate

I wonder if specialising in something like lavender would be any good

Robert The Devil's Advocate www.pafc.co.uk

On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 09:13:40 +0000 (UTC), "bnd777"
wrote:

Seems to me that if we are forced to accept GM crops etc as predicted then
our entire Organic Farming community will be decimated
The last few weeks of unrelenting heat and lack of rain have wrecked my
organic garden despite tons of compost i pile on every year

I suspect not.
In fact it might be the best thing that could ever happen for the
organic gardeners.

Let's face it, how many people actually delve into the scientific data
on GM crops? And of those that do, how many really understand it?
And how many, having either failed to understand it or having
understood the implications fully, decide that there something
distinctly whiffy about it all?

Consider too the sheer number of people who will just react to it on
the grounds that they don't like all that 'mucking about with nature'.
I think there could be a considerable backlash, which will allow
traditional and organic growers a decent share of the market.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

A young couple I know have a organic smallholding, fruit and veg.and cut
flowers.They live in Gloucestershire very near the Vale of Evesham,
maybe that is not a good place to be for starters, anyway they are
really struggling to make ends meet, no time for trialing new products
etc.etc. Is this the same for most organic smallholders, are there no
grants to help young peeps trying to make a living, it does seem a shame
if they have to give up. They do do veg.and fruit boxes but there is not
much to be made in that.

kate

It was my fathers aim to earn a living off his smallholding (6 acres) 50
years ago. However, it soon became apparent that he needed to have paid
employment too. Market forces and government quangoes conspire against small
producers - mainly on grounds of price and burocracy. The problem is most
people want to pay as little as possible for their food and this typically
means the only successful producers are those that are large scale, heavily
mechanised and little in the way of quality.

An example of the above was egg production. My father kept hens in "deep
litter". Not quite the same a free range but a thousand times better than
battery - basically in a large room where they run around and forage in
woodshavings etc. He was making a modest return on the sale of eggs. Then
along came the "Egg Marketing Board" with legislation that required all eggs
to be sold through them. They also dictated the price that would be paid to
producers of those eggs. It soon became apparent that it was costing my
father more to produce the eggs than he was getting paid for them. So he had
no option but to stop production and sell the hens. The only producers that
made a return on egg production were those doing so intensively. Hence the
rise of battery farming and hens spending their entire lives in cages little
larger than they are.

--
Drakanthus.


(Spam filter: Include the word VB anywhere in the subject line or emails
will never reach me.)

"Drakanthus" wrote in message
...

An example of the above was egg production. My father kept hens in "deep
litter". Not quite the same a free range but a thousand times better than
battery - basically in a large room where they run around and forage in
woodshavings etc. He was making a modest return on the sale of eggs. Then
along came the "Egg Marketing Board" with legislation that required all
eggs
to be sold through them. They also dictated the price that would be paid
to
producers of those eggs.

Not quite correct. You could opt out and sell your eggs privately, but you
could not put the little lion on those you sold as 'Farm Fresh'.

'IF' you decided to sell your egs to the EMB then yes they dictated the
price.

I too had chickens on Deep Litter but sold as Farm Fresh. I don't seem to
remember any of my eggs going to EMB.

It soon became apparent that it was costing my
father more to produce the eggs than he was getting paid for them. So he
had
no option but to stop production and sell the hens. The only producers
that
made a return on egg production were those doing so intensively. Hence the
rise of battery farming and hens spending their entire lives in cages
little
larger than they are.


Yes I go along with you here :-(

Mike

"K" wrote in message ...
"Kate Morgan" wrote in message
. ..
: A young couple I know have a organic smallholding, fruit and veg.and cut
: flowers.They live in Gloucestershire very near the Vale of Evesham,
: maybe that is not a good place to be for starters, anyway they are
: really struggling to make ends meet, no time for trialing new products
: etc.etc. Is this the same for most organic smallholders, are there no
: grants to help young peeps trying to make a living, it does seem a shame
: if they have to give up. They do do veg.and fruit boxes but there is not
: much to be made in that.
:
: kate

Do they do farmers' markets in the towns which seem to be popular, but then
of course they've got travel expenses.

Awful: and, I'm afraid, typical. An enterprise needs to be of a
certain size before it can be reasonably sure of making a living for a
family; and even established farmers are often pretty pushed these
days. If there's also a mortgage to pay before the family can eat,
it's worse, as with a smallholding what you mainly pay for is the
house, at normal house price, not the revenue potential of the land.

I suppose they already sell growing plants? They could gradually
establish themselves as specialists in some category, but it would
take years rather than months.

One way getting a short-term "grant" would be for one of them to
register as unemployed and get Job-Seeker's Allowance ("the dole").
After a period on this benefit, there is, I think, a system under
which a weekly payment can be made for setting up a new business as a
self-employed person. This might well include selling the stuff
nominally produced by the other, but that would need to be handled
with great discretion and savvy for fear of looking like fraud. I
wonder if there's also some kind of training grant to help the
registered unemployed partner learn to, e.g., drive a digger: round
their way there could be a demand for a good jobbing JCB operator. I
imagine, if they've got good reliable tackle, they've already
considered selling their agricultural skills as contractors doing
silage etc in the district.

Other than that, it looks like a question of one of them getting a job
off the holding: that's how it is for many of our local farmers.

Mike.

Kate Morgan wrote:


A young couple I know have a organic smallholding, fruit and veg.and cut
flowers.They live in Gloucestershire very near the Vale of Evesham,
maybe that is not a good place to be for starters, anyway they are
really struggling to make ends meet, no time for trialing new products
etc.etc. Is this the same for most organic smallholders, are there no
grants to help young peeps trying to make a living, it does seem a shame
if they have to give up. They do do veg.and fruit boxes but there is not
much to be made in that.

kate


There is funding available AFAIK but it takes a bit of time to research.
Something I imagine they do not have a lot of. Have they contacted the
'ususal' places such as HDRA (which now has a smallholdings section)
etc.. They may also find that if they can process some of they're
produce in some way,they will add value to it..

It IS difficult though.

Good luck to them..

Jim

"Kate Morgan" wrote in message
. ..
A young couple I know have a organic smallholding, fruit and veg.and cut
flowers.They live in Gloucestershire very near the Vale of Evesham,
maybe that is not a good place to be for starters, anyway they are
really struggling to make ends meet, no time for trialing new products
etc.etc. Is this the same for most organic smallholders, are there no
grants to help young peeps trying to make a living, it does seem a shame
if they have to give up. They do do veg.and fruit boxes but there is not
much to be made in that.

kate

Our friends (organic veg growers) manage by giving accomadation to young
people from europe who work all summer for free! in return for food and
accomadation, they don't give the immpression of having lots of spare cash
though! I don't know the name of the scheme but it certainly works.

--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)

"Kate Morgan" wrote in message
. ..
A young couple I know have a organic smallholding, fruit and veg.and cut
flowers.They live in Gloucestershire very near the Vale of Evesham,
maybe that is not a good place to be for starters, anyway they are
really struggling to make ends meet, no time for trialing new products
etc.etc. Is this the same for most organic smallholders, are there no
grants to help young peeps trying to make a living, it does seem a shame
if they have to give up. They do do veg.and fruit boxes but there is not
much to be made in that.

I cannot understand why "young peeps" should receive grants to try and make
a living. Are you saying that everybody who is trying to make any kind of
living should receive a grant for doing so? If so, what did I miss out on?

Franz

Charlie Pridham wrote:

"Kate Morgan" wrote in message
. ..
A young couple I know have a organic smallholding, fruit and veg.and cut
flowers.They live in Gloucestershire very near the Vale of Evesham,
maybe that is not a good place to be for starters, anyway they are
really struggling to make ends meet, no time for trialing new products
etc.etc. Is this the same for most organic smallholders, are there no
grants to help young peeps trying to make a living, it does seem a shame
if they have to give up. They do do veg.and fruit boxes but there is not
much to be made in that.

kate

Our friends (organic veg growers) manage by giving accomadation to young
people from europe who work all summer for free! in return for food and
accomadation, they don't give the immpression of having lots of spare cash
though! I don't know the name of the scheme but it certainly works.

Possibly WWWOOFERS or similar? (Willing Worldwide Workers on Organic
Farms)
//
Jim

In article , The Devil's Advocate
writes
Kate Morgan wrote:
: A young couple I know have a organic smallholding, fruit and veg.and
: cut flowers.They live in Gloucestershire very near the Vale of
: Evesham, maybe that is not a good place to be for starters, anyway
: they are really struggling to make ends meet, no time for trialing
: new products etc.etc. Is this the same for most organic smallholders,
: are there no grants to help young peeps trying to make a living, it
: does seem a shame if they have to give up. They do do veg.and fruit
: boxes but there is not much to be made in that.
:
: kate

I wonder if specialising in something like lavender would be any good

Not in Gloucs/vale of evesham for lavender, I wouldn't have thought.
Asparagus, possibly, but that's a short season with a lot of established
growers. There seems to be more profit in organic meat, but you'd need
more than a smallholding.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

In article , Charlie
Pridham writes

Our friends (organic veg growers) manage by giving accomadation to young
people from europe who work all summer for free! in return for food and
accomadation, they don't give the immpression of having lots of spare cash
though! I don't know the name of the scheme but it certainly works.

In our commercial organic growing days - the 1980s - visitors of that
kind were dubbed as Werewolves or Woofers - misnomers for participants
in the WWOOF [UK] scheme, i.e. Working Weekends On Organic Farms. We had
quite a number of them at our place. They were all thoroughly nice
people, willing to do any tasks given to them, and tirelessly avid to
learn endless details about organic growing, self-sufficiency etc. etc.

We had many weekends of hilarious fun in their company, and we made some
good permanent friends .... BUT any hope of getting meaningful jobs
done, or making economic progress by their help was just not on.
Willingness does not equal ability, and belief in principles often does
not mean being prepared to carry them out. In reality, WORK is a four
letter word. and HARD WORK is something not mentioned in decent company.

Colleagues of ours had similar visitors on longer term schemes, but as
soon as they had become anything like useful, they would be off to take
paid work, often as advisors. I hope that similar schemes are still in
operation, they are enormously useful in promoting understanding between
people of differing lifestyles, but their primary aims are somewhat
illusory.
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.