"Ron Clark" wrote
Ron Clark wrote:


What is this list of stockists iof it's not advertising fer Kriese
sake?
huge snip of addresses

LOL - who's side are you on anyway ROn "~)
Jenny

In article ,
Ron Clark writes:
|
| Really, this business is beneath my notice, but since you persist in
| championing a misguided youth, I will attempt to enlighten you.
|
| It is an abuse of the terms and conditions of usenet usage to
| recommend products, to promote links to dozens and dozens of
| commercial retailers, to provide links to product lists and to price
| lists.

Fascinating! Where are these terms and conditions to be found,
and what is the organisation that has the authority to promulgate
them? I can't remember when I started using Usenet, but it was
a couple of decades back, and I have lived in blissful ignorance
of such things ....


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 18:52:15 +0200, "JennyC" wrote:


"Ron Clark" wrote
Ron Clark wrote:


What is this list of stockists iof it's not advertising fer Kriese
sake?
huge snip of addresses

LOL - who's side are you on anyway ROn "~)
Jenny

I'm with the white hats.

--
®óñ© © ²°°³

On 19 Sep 2003 16:57:58 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

| It is an abuse of the terms and conditions of usenet usage to
| recommend products, to promote links to dozens and dozens of
| commercial retailers, to provide links to product lists and to price
| lists.

Fascinating! Where are these terms and conditions to be found,
and what is the organisation that has the authority to promulgate
them?

You signed up with a news server and you agreed to their terms and
conditions., Maybe you even read them before agreeing to them.

Without doubt the T&C specifically bans the posting of unsolicited
commercial emails to private email addresses and to newsgroups and
bans unsolicited bulk emailing. To contravene such an agreement to
desist from such activity makes you liable to having your account
pulled. This is surely not news to you.

The organisation having the authority to enforce their own T&Cs is the
abuse section of your provider.

Regards


--
®óñ© © ²°°³

In article ,
Ron Clark wrote:
On 19 Sep 2003 16:57:58 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

| It is an abuse of the terms and conditions of usenet usage to
| recommend products, to promote links to dozens and dozens of
| commercial retailers, to provide links to product lists and to price
| lists.

Fascinating! Where are these terms and conditions to be found,
and what is the organisation that has the authority to promulgate
them?

You signed up with a news server and you agreed to their terms and
conditions., Maybe you even read them before agreeing to them.

Actually, no, I didn't. Nor WERE there any explicit conditions when
I started (and for a long time afterwards). Seriously. Now, I am
being a LITTLE pedantic, because I did agree to abide by the Statutes
and Ordinances of the University of Cambridge when I started work here,
and they do indirect to a body authorised to make such rules (which it
did some 5-10 years after I started using Usenet).

Without doubt the T&C specifically bans the posting of unsolicited
commercial emails to private email addresses and to newsgroups and
bans unsolicited bulk emailing. To contravene such an agreement to
desist from such activity makes you liable to having your account
pulled. This is surely not news to you.

Firstly, that is not so - though there is a generic rule in my case
for not using my work account for private commercial usage - because
there are some providers that specifically cater for commercial
advertisers. While few Usenet feeds will peer with them, there is
no universal rule against posting advertising, nor any body capable
of making such a rule!

However, there is nothing stopping me from recommending products,
promoting links to commercial retailers or providing links to product
and price lists. Or at least nothing formal, and I have done exactly
that in the past when it has been appropriate. Of course, I personally
gain precisely nothing from doing so, and take care that any information
I provide on such things is "fair".

It isn't as simple as a free-for-all, but the commonly believed rules
aren't really as formal as actual rules.

The organisation having the authority to enforce their own T&Cs is the
abuse section of your provider.

Precisely. There is no common authority for the whole of Usenet.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

The message
from Ron Clark contains these words:


Your web site contains recommendations for commercially available
products, including an advert linking to a recommended supplier,
product information and price lists.

That's spam.

Some FAQs of this group contain recommendations for named companies
and commercially available goods; they aren't spam either.

Janet

Xref: kermit uk.rec.gardening:166225

Ron Clark wrote in
:

It contains recommendations to numerous stockists, product lists and
price lists.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

No, I'm disagreeing with you. What you see as advertising, I see as being
in the same category as urg's own 'suppliers' FAQ : a helpful reference.

I've had to make decisions on 'when to pull an account for spamming' when I
worked for an ISP. In my opinion, this doesn't fit the bill.

Sorry, not posting any further in this thread. I think you are just
looking for a fight, and I'm not interested.

Victoria

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 21:27:31 +0100, Janet Baraclough
wrote:

The message
from Ron Clark contains these words:


Your web site contains recommendations for commercially available
products, including an advert linking to a recommended supplier,
product information and price lists.

That's spam.

Some FAQs of this group contain recommendations for named companies
and commercially available goods; they aren't spam either.

Anyway, I'm off for a cuppla weeks to bask in the sun now so for me
the discussion is over and I shall switch off my spam-detector now,
It's been fun. Best wishes to everybody, especially Jason.

--

Don't rub the lamp if
you don't want the genie to appear

®óñ©

Xref: kermit uk.rec.gardening:166225

Ron Clark wrote in
:

It contains recommendations to numerous stockists, product lists and
price lists.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

No, I'm disagreeing with you. What you see as advertising, I see as being
in the same category as urg's own 'suppliers' FAQ : a helpful reference.

I've had to make decisions on 'when to pull an account for spamming' when I
worked for an ISP. In my opinion, this doesn't fit the bill.

Sorry, not posting any further in this thread. I think you are just
looking for a fight, and I'm not interested.

Victoria

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 22:28:00 +0100, Victoria Clare
wrote:


I've had to make decisions on 'when to pull an account for spamming' when I
worked for an ISP. In my opinion, this doesn't fit the bill.

Sorry, not posting any further in this thread. I think you are just
looking for a fight, and I'm not interested.

No fights. Victoria, we can surely disagree without that.

I don't even feel a need to convince you, right ?
I have made my point, you've made yours.
It's over now..


Regards


--
®óñ© © ²°°³

"Ron Clark" wrote in message
...
Anyway, I'm off for a cuppla weeks to bask in the sun now so for me
the discussion is over and I shall switch off my spam-detector now,
It's been fun. Best wishes to everybody, especially Jason.

Oh, what a relief - I only wanted to let people know about something which
might help them - I didn't expect for it to turn into a brow-beating
exercise on spam/netiquette. Still, I guess by now (having been using the
Internet since '93) I should realise that the 'Net is replete with Ron
Clark's!

Anyway, for the interest of anyone else, I've now taken the advice of
helpful people like Victoria and Anne and made some formatting changes to
hopefully make the page easier to read, including breaking it into sections.
Oh, and I've also put an explanation line at the top as to why certain
products are mentioned (just in case there are any more Rons out there
reading this).

Thanks for your patience people, and sorry this thread has got so out of
hand.
Jason


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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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On 19 Sep 2003 02:36:22 -0700, (J C-W)
wrote:

Ron Clark wrote in message . ..
SNIP
I think you'll find that it's technically known as SPAM and
unacceptable on usenet

Ron,
I'm sorry you've been offended, but I think *you* will find this
message was *not* SPAM - I am offering plans on the web to *help*
garden pond owners, I'm not trying to sell anything, it was a single
message, and it was not off-topic, so therefore, it cannot be classed
as SPAM (check the definition at
http://spam.abuse.net/overview/whatisspam.shtml if you need to).
Please be more careful when flaming, and don't forget that there is a
real person on the other end of a message (mostly). If you are not
interested in garden ponds or pond-keeping, don't read the message,
it's as simple as that, but my message certainly did not warrant your
flame.

Jason... ignore the pedantic moron - pages such as yours are the very
heart of the web. Millions of fascinating sites built by people who've
actually got off their arse and done something, and have had the
presence of mind to share their knowledge.

As someone who has similar pages on my own website I know only too
well how long it takes to put such an article together - not to
mention the legwork involved in doing the actual work described
beforehand.

May I make a small suggestion?
You mentioned the use of Cyanoacrylate adhesive - and whenever I've
used it in conjunction with plastics it's given off some very nasty
fumes ( a quite exquisite pain if they get in your eye ).
I'm none too sure whether the glue you mentioned does the same with
the plastics specified, but if so you might find it helpful to warn
the punters of the risk ( i.e. wear goggles or do it outside ).

Oh, and you need an 'r' he "Stick you guttering piece over the
outlet "

Happy hit counting!





--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

"Ron Clark" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 18:52:15 +0200, "JennyC" wrote:


"Ron Clark" wrote
Ron Clark wrote:


What is this list of stockists iof it's not advertising fer Kriese
sake?
huge snip of addresses

Go away you silly little man. You are a thousand times more annoying than
the original poster.

"J C-W" wrote
Anyway, for the interest of anyone else, I've now taken the advice
of
helpful people like Victoria and Anne and made some formatting
changes to
hopefully make the page easier to read, including breaking it into
sections.
Oh, and I've also put an explanation line at the top as to why
certain
products are mentioned (just in case there are any more Rons out
there
reading this).

Thanks for your patience people, and sorry this thread has got so
out of
hand.
Jason

Much better and easier to read Jason.
N.B. You ought to post the 'hovercraft' to uk.rec.sheds - but beware,
Ron inhabits that group too :~))
Jenny

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Howard"
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening
Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2003 10:13 AM
Subject: new website: DIY homebuild mechanical external pond pre-filter


SNIP (again)
Jason... ignore the pedantic moron - pages such as yours are the very
heart of the web. Millions of fascinating sites built by people who've
actually got off their arse and done something, and have had the
presence of mind to share their knowledge.


I am, I just find it amusing that such people have nothing better to do
with
their time, and therefore it is hard not to be tempted to wind them up! I
have seen much worse arguments on usenet, but it's almost like watching a
soap opera, you get sucked in.

As someone who has similar pages on my own website I know only too
well how long it takes to put such an article together - not to
mention the legwork involved in doing the actual work described
beforehand.

May I make a small suggestion?
You mentioned the use of Cyanoacrylate adhesive - and whenever I've
used it in conjunction with plastics it's given off some very nasty
fumes ( a quite exquisite pain if they get in your eye ).
I'm none too sure whether the glue you mentioned does the same with
the plastics specified, but if so you might find it helpful to warn
the punters of the risk ( i.e. wear goggles or do it outside ).

That's a valid point. The glue mentioned is specifically aimed at use with
plastics including PP, but nevertheless, it is obviously sensible to take
precautions, so I will add a warning, thanks.


Oh, and you need an 'r' he "Stick you guttering piece over the
outlet "

Oops, thanks for the proof-reading!

Happy hit counting!


Well, I don't know that I'm *that* obsessed with hits, but I feel that if I
can help just one other person, then it's worthwhile. Thanks for your
interest!

Jason


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