"K" wrote in message ...
[...]
Thanks, Gavin. I was really only making the point in a general way as I am
London based but thought that the meeting had been called by the trustees or
other figureheads. I now understand that it was not.

It is a very good point, and one a couple of people raised. To be
honest, when I first went I also assumed it had been called by the
trustees, and only realised otherwise when the chap who had called it
stood up on stage and explained who he was. In a way, the fact that
the trustees *hadn't* called such a meeting is telling in itself, but
I'm hoping they were just too busy preparing their case for the
Assembly.

I was really taking the opportunity to highlight that this was "what
some guy in the pub told me" news, not a fully informed press release.

"K" wrote in message ...
[...]
Thanks, Gavin. I was really only making the point in a general way as I am
London based but thought that the meeting had been called by the trustees or
other figureheads. I now understand that it was not.

It is a very good point, and one a couple of people raised. To be
honest, when I first went I also assumed it had been called by the
trustees, and only realised otherwise when the chap who had called it
stood up on stage and explained who he was. In a way, the fact that
the trustees *hadn't* called such a meeting is telling in itself, but
I'm hoping they were just too busy preparing their case for the
Assembly.

I was really taking the opportunity to highlight that this was "what
some guy in the pub told me" news, not a fully informed press release.

"David" wrote in message ...
As a visitor to the garden over a number of years, and a member in the first
full year of operation, I would make the following observations:

- The garden can never be truly self financing, its location places it too
far from the main population centres of the Midlands and South of England.
[...]

While I would love to see the Gardens getting the same kind of annual
grant as Kew or Edinburgh (Kew apparently gets £20 million a year)
Alan Pugh has made it clear that this will never happen. So I hope you
are wrong.

The original Technium site in Swansea appears to be booming, so if the
Biotechnium gets going, that might be another source of income.

- It has never been marketed effectively, look at the Eden Project as an
example of good promotion. Why can'y The Garden be marketed jointly with
Aberglasney (another superb visitor attraction)?

Someone was apparently invited from the Eden project to suggest ways
Middleton could improve its business model, but personally I think the
Garden would do better to model itself on Aberglasney. Apart from
anything else, I heard that one of the most profligate trustees (now
sacked) was hired after getting the sack from the Eden project.
Aberglasney has concentrated on getting good marketing, a nice rustic
restaurant and great gardens. If Middleton had spent its money on
those things rather than a big Norman Foster designer dome and (high
quality) canteen food, it would probably have done a lot better.

Aberglasney is also even harder to get to than Middleton, yet seems to
be doing well enough, financially speaking. I think.

- As I say I took out a memebrship in the first year to support the garden.
On its expiry no one bothered to contact me to suggest that I might like to
renew my membership. If this is typical, it shows an apalling lack of
commercial awareness. I can only guess at the number of regular members they
may have lost as aresult of this basic error.

It seems to have been typical, I'm afraid - when they had the "Grand
opening" of the walled garden, many life members weren't even told.
Communication has been one of their biggest failures, especially with
members and volunteers but they seem to be addressing this now with a
volunteer-led newsletter - I'll find out more on the 10th. I don't
know how they'll be fixing the marketing and catering.

- I have to say that some of the facilities, particularly the restaurant /
cafe are poorly run. These days people expect a higher quality service.

Checking the newsletter, I see that they do mention that the catering
has been taken over by 'Castell Howell', who are taking on the staff
who worked there before. No further details, but we'll see if the
catering improves.

".............The original Technium site in Swansea appears to be
booming,........."

What "technium" site in Swansea?

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk
***2004 catalogue now available***

".............The original Technium site in Swansea appears to be
booming,........."

What "technium" site in Swansea?

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk
***2004 catalogue now available***

Surely you mean Plantasia - although it is beginning to look a little "worn
round the edges"

David
"David Hill" wrote in message
...
".............The original Technium site in Swansea appears to be
booming,........."

What "technium" site in Swansea?

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk
***2004 catalogue now available***

Surely you mean Plantasia - although it is beginning to look a little "worn
round the edges"

David
"David Hill" wrote in message
...
".............The original Technium site in Swansea appears to be
booming,........."

What "technium" site in Swansea?

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk
***2004 catalogue now available***

Surely you mean Plantasia - although it is beginning to look a little "worn
round the edges"

David
"David Hill" wrote in message
...
".............The original Technium site in Swansea appears to be
booming,........."

What "technium" site in Swansea?

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk
***2004 catalogue now available***

"Peter Crosland" wrote in
:

Even if you argue Eden and Heligan just live off tourists, Rosemoor
is in Torrington, for heavens sake, surrounded by acres of mud and
sheep!

And what is wrong with being surrounded by mud and sheep? Far better
than by pavements covered in litter!

I am myself surrounded by mud and sheep!

My point was that there is nothing wrong with that for a successful garden,
and people are prepared to travel to out of the way locations to see them
when they are well promoted.

I mentioned Rosemoor because it is quite a way from either of Devon's
touristy coastlines, (at least 2 hours from the South coast, and over an
hour from, say, Woolacombe or Lynmouth on the North coast.)

Even the roads to it are pretty poor, particularly from the South, where
the majority of the tourist trade congregates. Yet people seem to manage to
get there somehow: even out of season I've never seen it completely
deserted.

Victoria
--
gardening on a north-facing hill
in South-East Cornwall
--

Surely you mean Plantasia - although it is beginning to look a little "worn
round the edges" David

Plantasia is the property of the City and County of Swansea, and whilst
getting a lot of visitors is subsidised by the Authority.
They would be happy to get shot of it for development, and if they did there
is no way it would be rebuilt anywhere else in the area.


"David Hill" wrote in message
...
".............The original Technium site in Swansea appears to be
booming,........."

What "technium" site in Swansea?


--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk
***2004 catalogue now available***

In article . 16,
Victoria Clare writes

I think your second points contradicts your first. The nearest city to the
Eden Project is titchy Plymouth in the next county: the area has poor roads
and is a good 6 hour drive from the Midlands and London.

Middleton is just down the M4 from Swansea, Cardiff, and Bristol, and would
be 'doable' as a day-trip from Reading or Swindon.

If the Eden Project, Heligan, Rosemoor etc can support themselves miles
from any city, let alone 'main population centres' I don't see why
Middleton can't. It's got to be down to bad promotion, as you say.

Even if you argue Eden and Heligan just live off tourists, Rosemoor is in
Torrington, for heavens sake, surrounded by acres of mud and sheep!

Eden is in Cornwall, Rosemoor in Devon. *Everyone* want to go to Devon
and Cornwall! South Wales conjures up coal mines.

;-)
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 16:21:59 +0000, Victoria Clare
wrote:

~"Peter Crosland" wrote in
:
~
~ Even if you argue Eden and Heligan just live off tourists, Rosemoor
~ is in Torrington, for heavens sake, surrounded by acres of mud and
~ sheep!
~
~ And what is wrong with being surrounded by mud and sheep? Far better
~ than by pavements covered in litter!
~
~I am myself surrounded by mud and sheep!
~
~My point was that there is nothing wrong with that for a successful garden,
~and people are prepared to travel to out of the way locations to see them
~when they are well promoted.
~
~I mentioned Rosemoor because it is quite a way from either of Devon's
~touristy coastlines, (at least 2 hours from the South coast, and over an
~hour from, say, Woolacombe or Lynmouth on the North coast.)
~
~Even the roads to it are pretty poor, particularly from the South, where
~the majority of the tourist trade congregates. Yet people seem to manage to
~get there somehow: even out of season I've never seen it completely
~deserted.

Rosemoor is indeed a pain to get to. I went in May, on the way back
from a Cornish wedding, and the navigation was quite complex to get
there from Bude! There are no main roads or anything, but as you said,
the car park was quite full...

I found Middleton easier to get to - but then I had planned my trip to
include it. Didn't manage Aberglasney though. I have every intention
of going back (and doing a castle hunt while I'm at it!) though
whether I'll be able to go to the Botanic garden again is anyone's
guess.

Personally, if I could change anything, I'd put more interesting stuff
in the glasshouse. It's mostly green scrubland type plants at the
moment and didn't really have any colourful flowers. Botanically the
current contents are interesting, visitorwise they aren't. They could
find a compromise. It's a bit like the temperate biome at Eden was
when I went (first week) - most of the people I went with preferred
the blowsy tropical biome because it was full of lush growth and
stunning flowers - and the butterflies.

The outside planting of Middleton is lovely, though.


--
jane

Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone,
you may still exist but you have ceased to live.
Mark Twain

Please remove onmaps from replies, thanks!

Kay Easton wrote in
:

Even if you argue Eden and Heligan just live off tourists, Rosemoor is
in Torrington, for heavens sake, surrounded by acres of mud and sheep!

Eden is in Cornwall, Rosemoor in Devon. *Everyone* want to go to Devon
and Cornwall! South Wales conjures up coal mines.

I'm afraid that is a 'vurriners' perception. I'll give you Eden, but
tourists go almost entirely to the coasts and the moors in Devon.

There are what are known in my family as 'MMBD' (Miles and Miles of
Bloody Devon') between the tourist areas. MMBD is occupied almost
entirely by thinly-spaced farmers, people 'escaping the rat run' and
mud. But you say 'Devon' and no-one thinks of Winkleigh or
Monkokehampton.

I regularly make the long, slow drive from Tavistock to Barnstaple.
Even in the height of the tourist season I rarely see more than a few
other cars on the great stretches from Okehampton to the outskirts of
Barnstaple, and a caravan is a rarity (hurray!).

Then you hit the North Devon Link road, and ah yes, *that's* where they
all are!

Eden has had an enormous effect on its surroundings, (which include
plenty of mines & spoilheaps). House prices, tourist industry,
infrastructure, perception of the area have all been affected. When I
moved to Cornwall, we bought a house here, not in Devon, because 'no-one
wants to live in Cornwall' so it was dead cheap. Not any more. The
local paper calls it the 'Eden Effect'.

I don't see why a garden in Wales should be doomed. Wales is a great
place, easier to get to than Cornwall, and with a similar mining
heritage.

I've lived in South Wales. It has an awesomely beautiful coastline that
frankly is as good as anything the Southwest can show, moorland,
mountains, beaches, castles, a really fascinating heritage, and it
doesn't rain any more than in Devon, (only 22 miles away).

It's just not sold very well, and it tends to underrate itself and be
underrated by others. I think that is utterly tragic.

Victoria

jane4/12/03 9:32

snip
It's a bit like the temperate biome at Eden was
when I went (first week) - most of the people I went with preferred
the blowsy tropical biome because it was full of lush growth and
stunning flowers - and the butterflies.

The outside planting of Middleton is lovely, though.

I think they've had a fair bit of trouble with the planting in the
temperate biome at Eden. We were there last year and some of it looked
pretty sick and was being taken out. We noticed areas where they had used
bark chippings and assumed these had a bad effect on some of the plants.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the 'x' to email me)

On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 23:07:35 +0000, Kay Easton
wrote:

In article . 16,
Victoria Clare writes

I think your second points contradicts your first. The nearest city to the
Eden Project is titchy Plymouth in the next county: the area has poor roads
and is a good 6 hour drive from the Midlands and London.

Middleton is just down the M4 from Swansea, Cardiff, and Bristol, and would
be 'doable' as a day-trip from Reading or Swindon.

If the Eden Project, Heligan, Rosemoor etc can support themselves miles
from any city, let alone 'main population centres' I don't see why
Middleton can't. It's got to be down to bad promotion, as you say.

Even if you argue Eden and Heligan just live off tourists, Rosemoor is in
Torrington, for heavens sake, surrounded by acres of mud and sheep!

Eden is in Cornwall, Rosemoor in Devon. *Everyone* want to go to Devon
and Cornwall! South Wales conjures up coal mines.

Like Cornwall conjures tin mines? :-)
--
Martin