For those who are interested in the National Botanic Garden of Wales
at Middleton and the associated BioTechnium incubator project:

I was at the meeting held yesterday in the Glasshouse to discuss the
future of the Gardens. What I gathered is that the remaining Trustees
have put together a rescue plan which has been submitted to the Welsh
Assembly, and they are waiting to hear back from the Assembly after
the decision is taken tomorrow, Tuesday 2nd December.

Now this might sound like the Trustees haven't learned a thing and are
going to go on demanding public money to fund their big lunches while
the members are left to buy sandwiches (for those who remember the
fiasco at the opening of the walled garden.) But I truly believe, both
from talking to the two trustees present *and* from a number of
ex-employees 'in the know', that this is not the case.

- They are down to 6 trustees. I don't know how many they started
with, but this was mentioned by several people.

- They have also got rid of the various hangers-on. Again, I don't
know exactly what this means but it seemed a source of satisfaction to
a number of people. So a cruel person such as myself might say that it
looks as though the rats have left the sinking ship, leaving the
actual captains behind to go down with her.

- They have most especially sacked those responsible for the more
extravagant wastes of money such as the unpopular and horribly
expensive rebranding to 'Middleton' or paying an expensive
psychologist to 'motivate' the team.

- They have taken on board many of the criticisms made by members. So,
on the subject of the lack of communication, they have put together a
very nice newsletter, copies of which were available on the day, and
are assembling a team of volunteers, working under the current Press
Officer, to keep this going.

- *If* they get the nod from the Assembly, various other funds are
already agreed, such as the remaining money from the original
Millenium grant, but are simply frozen until the garden itself is on a
sound financial footing.

- The Biotechnium Incubator project is also just waiting to see if the
mothership is sound. The building itself is complete, only needing
finishing touches such as the equipment to be installed in the labs.
Funding for this has apparently been agreed with the WDA, and the
project has companies waiting to move in, so if the Assembly gives the
word it could be up and running within a few months.

So if you read this and want to support the Gardens to become what the
gardening community in Wales actually want, there are two things you
could do.

First of all is doing some volunteer work. So the meeting of
volunteers to put together the newsletter, for example, is at the
Gardens on the 10th of December at 1pm in Principality House.

Secondly, and on rather short notice, you could email the Assembly
(especially your AM if you live in Wales) before Tuesday to urge them
to support the Gardens. You can find contact details for you Assembly
member at http://www.wales.gov.uk/

Apparently Middleton would not qualify for a large annual grant such
as those that support the big Botanic Gardens in England and Scotland,
but it is surely a better use of Assembly mony than a second Assembly
building!

"Gavin Wheeler" wrote in message
om...
: For those who are interested in the National Botanic Garden of Wales
: at Middleton and the associated BioTechnium incubator project:
:
: I was at the meeting held yesterday in the Glasshouse to discuss the
: future of the Gardens. What I gathered is that the remaining Trustees
: have put together a rescue plan which has been submitted to the Welsh
: Assembly, and they are waiting to hear back from the Assembly after
: the decision is taken tomorrow, Tuesday 2nd December.
:
: Now this might sound like the Trustees haven't learned a thing and are
: going to go on demanding public money to fund their big lunches while
: the members are left to buy sandwiches (for those who remember the
: fiasco at the opening of the walled garden.) But I truly believe, both
: from talking to the two trustees present *and* from a number of
: ex-employees 'in the know', that this is not the case.
:
: - They are down to 6 trustees. I don't know how many they started
: with, but this was mentioned by several people.

Where were the other 4 trustees that they could not attend such an important
meeting as this?

K
:
SNIP

"Gavin Wheeler" wrote in message
om...

But I truly believe, both
from talking to the two trustees present *and* from a number of
ex-employees 'in the know', that this is not the case.

- They are down to 6 trustees. I don't know how many they started
with, but this was mentioned by several people.

If only two trustees were present out of six, then, in view of the crucial
nature of the meeting, it is obvious that at least four haven't learnt a
thing. Who might be in a position to dismiss them, and when may one expect
that to happen?

Franz

Thanks for a very good update,
Keep up the good work.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk
***2004 catalogue now available***

"K" wrote in message ...

Where were the other 4 trustees that they could not attend such an important
meeting as this?

Short answer: I don't know. I'm not connected to the Gardens in any
way (unless you count having been a volunteer a couple of times in the
early stages, before it opened), and so wouldn't necessarily recognise
the trustees if I saw them. So they might have been there in the
audience - it would have been more exact to say that there were two
trustees up on the stadium, publically identified as such. There were
certainly plenty of other people present who are part of the
organisation in sme way, such as the guy who was handing out the
newsletter or various ex-employees.

The meeting was also something organised by an interested local, not
by the trustees themselves. So I suppose I could understand some of
them not being able to be present, especially as they are trying to
keep the Gardens running well on a skeleton staff, and there having
been a Christmas Craft Fair on earlier that day. It would have been
nice to see them all there, but I honestly can't say where they were
or why.

Obviously everyone has to make up their own mind as to whether or not
they *do* trust this revamped incarnation of the Garden, after the
mess that has been made in the past, and I wouldn't dream of trying to
tell anyone that they 'should' trust them. Really all I was trying to
do, or could reasonably do for that matter, was make people aware of
the debate that is happening in the Assembly today, and give some
account of the meeting on Sunday.

On that note, I've been looking at the Assembly website, to see if I
could find out more about the debate (or committee meeting or whatever
it is). I couldn't, but I did find a transcript of another past debate
on the gardens. If you are interested the URL is:
http://www.wales.gov.uk/assemblydata...m#_Toc52774895

"K" wrote in message ...

Where were the other 4 trustees that they could not attend such an important
meeting as this?

Short answer: I don't know. I'm not connected to the Gardens in any
way (unless you count having been a volunteer a couple of times in the
early stages, before it opened), and so wouldn't necessarily recognise
the trustees if I saw them. So they might have been there in the
audience - it would have been more exact to say that there were two
trustees up on the stadium, publically identified as such. There were
certainly plenty of other people present who are part of the
organisation in sme way, such as the guy who was handing out the
newsletter or various ex-employees.

The meeting was also something organised by an interested local, not
by the trustees themselves. So I suppose I could understand some of
them not being able to be present, especially as they are trying to
keep the Gardens running well on a skeleton staff, and there having
been a Christmas Craft Fair on earlier that day. It would have been
nice to see them all there, but I honestly can't say where they were
or why.

Obviously everyone has to make up their own mind as to whether or not
they *do* trust this revamped incarnation of the Garden, after the
mess that has been made in the past, and I wouldn't dream of trying to
tell anyone that they 'should' trust them. Really all I was trying to
do, or could reasonably do for that matter, was make people aware of
the debate that is happening in the Assembly today, and give some
account of the meeting on Sunday.

On that note, I've been looking at the Assembly website, to see if I
could find out more about the debate (or committee meeting or whatever
it is). I couldn't, but I did find a transcript of another past debate
on the gardens. If you are interested the URL is:
http://www.wales.gov.uk/assemblydata...m#_Toc52774895

"K" wrote in message ...

Where were the other 4 trustees that they could not attend such an important
meeting as this?

Short answer: I don't know. I'm not connected to the Gardens in any
way (unless you count having been a volunteer a couple of times in the
early stages, before it opened), and so wouldn't necessarily recognise
the trustees if I saw them. So they might have been there in the
audience - it would have been more exact to say that there were two
trustees up on the stadium, publically identified as such. There were
certainly plenty of other people present who are part of the
organisation in sme way, such as the guy who was handing out the
newsletter or various ex-employees.

The meeting was also something organised by an interested local, not
by the trustees themselves. So I suppose I could understand some of
them not being able to be present, especially as they are trying to
keep the Gardens running well on a skeleton staff, and there having
been a Christmas Craft Fair on earlier that day. It would have been
nice to see them all there, but I honestly can't say where they were
or why.

Obviously everyone has to make up their own mind as to whether or not
they *do* trust this revamped incarnation of the Garden, after the
mess that has been made in the past, and I wouldn't dream of trying to
tell anyone that they 'should' trust them. Really all I was trying to
do, or could reasonably do for that matter, was make people aware of
the debate that is happening in the Assembly today, and give some
account of the meeting on Sunday.

On that note, I've been looking at the Assembly website, to see if I
could find out more about the debate (or committee meeting or whatever
it is). I couldn't, but I did find a transcript of another past debate
on the gardens. If you are interested the URL is:
http://www.wales.gov.uk/assemblydata...m#_Toc52774895

"K" wrote in message ...

Where were the other 4 trustees that they could not attend such an important
meeting as this?

Short answer: I don't know. I'm not connected to the Gardens in any
way (unless you count having been a volunteer a couple of times in the
early stages, before it opened), and so wouldn't necessarily recognise
the trustees if I saw them. So they might have been there in the
audience - it would have been more exact to say that there were two
trustees up on the stadium, publically identified as such. There were
certainly plenty of other people present who are part of the
organisation in sme way, such as the guy who was handing out the
newsletter or various ex-employees.

The meeting was also something organised by an interested local, not
by the trustees themselves. So I suppose I could understand some of
them not being able to be present, especially as they are trying to
keep the Gardens running well on a skeleton staff, and there having
been a Christmas Craft Fair on earlier that day. It would have been
nice to see them all there, but I honestly can't say where they were
or why.

Obviously everyone has to make up their own mind as to whether or not
they *do* trust this revamped incarnation of the Garden, after the
mess that has been made in the past, and I wouldn't dream of trying to
tell anyone that they 'should' trust them. Really all I was trying to
do, or could reasonably do for that matter, was make people aware of
the debate that is happening in the Assembly today, and give some
account of the meeting on Sunday.

On that note, I've been looking at the Assembly website, to see if I
could find out more about the debate (or committee meeting or whatever
it is). I couldn't, but I did find a transcript of another past debate
on the gardens. If you are interested the URL is:
http://www.wales.gov.uk/assemblydata...m#_Toc52774895

As a visitor to the garden over a number of years, and a member in the first
full year of operation, I would make the following observations:

- The garden can never be truly self financing, its location places it too
far from the main population centres of the Midlands and South of England.
As a result visitor numbers will never be sufficient on their own, also

- It has never been marketed effectively, look at the Eden Project as an
example of good promotion. Why can'y The Garden be marketed jointly with
Aberglasney (another superb visitor attraction)?

- As I say I took out a memebrship in the first year to support the garden.
On its expiry no one bothered to contact me to suggest that I might like to
renew my membership. If this is typical, it shows an apalling lack of
commercial awareness. I can only guess at the number of regular members they
may have lost as aresult of this basic error.

- I have to say that some of the facilities, particularly the restaurant /
cafe are poorly run. These days people expect a higher quality service.



I really hope that the garden is able to continue, but it needs public
money, and a clear vision of its purpose to survive.

David



"David Hill" wrote in message
...
Thanks for a very good update,
Keep up the good work.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk
***2004 catalogue now available***

As a visitor to the garden over a number of years, and a member in the first
full year of operation, I would make the following observations:

- The garden can never be truly self financing, its location places it too
far from the main population centres of the Midlands and South of England.
As a result visitor numbers will never be sufficient on their own, also

- It has never been marketed effectively, look at the Eden Project as an
example of good promotion. Why can'y The Garden be marketed jointly with
Aberglasney (another superb visitor attraction)?

- As I say I took out a memebrship in the first year to support the garden.
On its expiry no one bothered to contact me to suggest that I might like to
renew my membership. If this is typical, it shows an apalling lack of
commercial awareness. I can only guess at the number of regular members they
may have lost as aresult of this basic error.

- I have to say that some of the facilities, particularly the restaurant /
cafe are poorly run. These days people expect a higher quality service.



I really hope that the garden is able to continue, but it needs public
money, and a clear vision of its purpose to survive.

David



"David Hill" wrote in message
...
Thanks for a very good update,
Keep up the good work.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk
***2004 catalogue now available***

"Gavin Wheeler" wrote in message
m...
: "K" wrote in message
...
:
: Where were the other 4 trustees that they could not attend such an
important
: meeting as this?
:
: Short answer: I don't know. I'm not connected to the Gardens in any
: way (unless you count having been a volunteer a couple of times in the
: early stages, before it opened), and so wouldn't necessarily recognise
: the trustees if I saw them. So they might have been there in the
: audience - it would have been more exact to say that there were two
: trustees up on the stadium, publically identified as such. There were
: certainly plenty of other people present who are part of the
: organisation in sme way, such as the guy who was handing out the
: newsletter or various ex-employees.
:
: The meeting was also something organised by an interested local, not
: by the trustees themselves. So I suppose I could understand some of
: them not being able to be present, especially as they are trying to
: keep the Gardens running well on a skeleton staff, and there having
: been a Christmas Craft Fair on earlier that day. It would have been
: nice to see them all there, but I honestly can't say where they were
: or why.
:
: Obviously everyone has to make up their own mind as to whether or not
: they *do* trust this revamped incarnation of the Garden, after the
: mess that has been made in the past, and I wouldn't dream of trying to
: tell anyone that they 'should' trust them. Really all I was trying to
: do, or could reasonably do for that matter, was make people aware of
: the debate that is happening in the Assembly today, and give some
: account of the meeting on Sunday.
:
: On that note, I've been looking at the Assembly website, to see if I
: could find out more about the debate (or committee meeting or whatever
: it is). I couldn't, but I did find a transcript of another past debate
: on the gardens. If you are interested the URL is:
:
http://www.wales.gov.uk/assemblydata...m#_Toc52774895

Thanks, Gavin. I was really only making the point in a general way as I am
London based but thought that the meeting had been called by the trustees or
other figureheads. I now understand that it was not.

K

"Gavin Wheeler" wrote in message
m...
: "K" wrote in message
...
:
: Where were the other 4 trustees that they could not attend such an
important
: meeting as this?
:
: Short answer: I don't know. I'm not connected to the Gardens in any
: way (unless you count having been a volunteer a couple of times in the
: early stages, before it opened), and so wouldn't necessarily recognise
: the trustees if I saw them. So they might have been there in the
: audience - it would have been more exact to say that there were two
: trustees up on the stadium, publically identified as such. There were
: certainly plenty of other people present who are part of the
: organisation in sme way, such as the guy who was handing out the
: newsletter or various ex-employees.
:
: The meeting was also something organised by an interested local, not
: by the trustees themselves. So I suppose I could understand some of
: them not being able to be present, especially as they are trying to
: keep the Gardens running well on a skeleton staff, and there having
: been a Christmas Craft Fair on earlier that day. It would have been
: nice to see them all there, but I honestly can't say where they were
: or why.
:
: Obviously everyone has to make up their own mind as to whether or not
: they *do* trust this revamped incarnation of the Garden, after the
: mess that has been made in the past, and I wouldn't dream of trying to
: tell anyone that they 'should' trust them. Really all I was trying to
: do, or could reasonably do for that matter, was make people aware of
: the debate that is happening in the Assembly today, and give some
: account of the meeting on Sunday.
:
: On that note, I've been looking at the Assembly website, to see if I
: could find out more about the debate (or committee meeting or whatever
: it is). I couldn't, but I did find a transcript of another past debate
: on the gardens. If you are interested the URL is:
:
http://www.wales.gov.uk/assemblydata...m#_Toc52774895

Thanks, Gavin. I was really only making the point in a general way as I am
London based but thought that the meeting had been called by the trustees or
other figureheads. I now understand that it was not.

K

"David" wrote in
:

As a visitor to the garden over a number of years, and a member in the
first full year of operation, I would make the following observations:

- The garden can never be truly self financing, its location places it
too far from the main population centres of the Midlands and South of
England. As a result visitor numbers will never be sufficient on their
own, also

- It has never been marketed effectively, look at the Eden Project as
an example of good promotion. Why can'y The Garden be marketed jointly
with Aberglasney (another superb visitor attraction)?


I think your second points contradicts your first. The nearest city to the
Eden Project is titchy Plymouth in the next county: the area has poor roads
and is a good 6 hour drive from the Midlands and London.

Middleton is just down the M4 from Swansea, Cardiff, and Bristol, and would
be 'doable' as a day-trip from Reading or Swindon.

If the Eden Project, Heligan, Rosemoor etc can support themselves miles
from any city, let alone 'main population centres' I don't see why
Middleton can't. It's got to be down to bad promotion, as you say.

Even if you argue Eden and Heligan just live off tourists, Rosemoor is in
Torrington, for heavens sake, surrounded by acres of mud and sheep!

Victoria

I agree that the Eden Project is a long way from major population centres,
but the number of summer visitors to Devon and Cornwall is much higher than
the number who come to Pembrokeshire and Carmarthenshire. Also, I suspect
that visitors to the West Country tend to have more disposable income.

The other thing is the publicity that the Eden Prioject has received since
it opened, which has been on a much larger scale, linked with tie-ins to The
Lost Garden at Heligan(?) - similar to Aberglasney, but much more heavily
promoted, and even vists to Tresco in the Scilly Isles.

David


"Victoria Clare" wrote in message
. 240.16...
"David" wrote in
:

As a visitor to the garden over a number of years, and a member in the
first full year of operation, I would make the following observations:

- The garden can never be truly self financing, its location places it
too far from the main population centres of the Midlands and South of
England. As a result visitor numbers will never be sufficient on their
own, also

- It has never been marketed effectively, look at the Eden Project as
an example of good promotion. Why can'y The Garden be marketed jointly
with Aberglasney (another superb visitor attraction)?


I think your second points contradicts your first. The nearest city to
the
Eden Project is titchy Plymouth in the next county: the area has poor
roads
and is a good 6 hour drive from the Midlands and London.

Middleton is just down the M4 from Swansea, Cardiff, and Bristol, and
would
be 'doable' as a day-trip from Reading or Swindon.

If the Eden Project, Heligan, Rosemoor etc can support themselves miles
from any city, let alone 'main population centres' I don't see why
Middleton can't. It's got to be down to bad promotion, as you say.

Even if you argue Eden and Heligan just live off tourists, Rosemoor is in
Torrington, for heavens sake, surrounded by acres of mud and sheep!

Victoria

Even if you argue Eden and Heligan just live off tourists, Rosemoor is in
Torrington, for heavens sake, surrounded by acres of mud and sheep!

And what is wrong with being surrounded by mud and sheep? Far better than by
pavements covered in litter!