On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 17:19:27 +0000, John Rouse
wrote:

In article , Chris French and Helen
Johnson writes

Permission for what? this is Unsenet, once you have posted a message
I'm not sure you can really expect to control what happens to it. Has
Goggle asked your permission to archive your messages ?

I suggest you read up on the law of copyright. What is written here
remains the copyright of the author, unless assigned to another.

If that was true, it would be impossible for a newsgroup to propagate
messages.
--
Martin

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:43:01 +0000, VivienB
wrote:

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 11:39:15 GMT, Frogleg wrote:


We're not *all* hopeless, you know. Nor are all of you. :-) When I
was in London (glorious!) some people sought to 'compliment' me by
remarking "you don't *sound* American."

Having met USians while working in a USian company and met some when
travelling, I am aware that the 'American' accent varies a great deal
more than those we hear on TV or in the movies. It seems a very
limited range of USian accents are considered acceptable for British
consumption.

Thanks. This is interesting. I've long been a devotee of Brit books,
films, and TV, and can sort out a fair number of the stronger accents.
Not like Professor Higgens, but more in the line of north, south, and
west. And BBC. :-) I think US media *does* present a kind of
LA-generic picture. (Los Angeles, not Louisiana) Strong regional
accents are usually relegated to 'character' parts. But there *are*
distinctly regional accents here, too. Various southern ones can be
quite pronounced. The Maine 'down-easter' is distinctive, as is the
Scandinavian influence in the upper (northern) midwest. Etc., etc.

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 16:07:06 +0100, martin wrote:

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 14:23:31 GMT, Anne Jackson
wrote:

I found (in London) that no matter what the (American) _accent_ is,
the mode is usually LOUD!

I've noticed the same about some British and most other nationalities
when they are on holiday abroad. There is still a type of Brit., who
thinks shouting makes up for not being able to speak a foreign
language.

Or speaking very slowly. :-) I took a holiday on a French-speaking
island and it was frustrating in the *extreme* to be an intelligent
person facing other intelligent people with virtually *no* way of
communicating. *So* humiliating to have to resort to sign language and
gestures. "Loud" doesn't work. "Slow" may permit someone with a year
of language instruction to grasp the essence, but other than "please
pass the potatoes" is inadequate for meaningful conversation.

I believe it's a sort of instinctive reaction to think LOUD or slow
will overcome the barriers. It just *can't* be that we have no way to
communicate.

The message
from Frogleg contains these words:

Yeah, but...having an over-large mouth isn't a characteristic
exclusive to any one nation. I realize it's more, um, interesting or
notable when it's a foreigner. Particularly if the behavior can be
related to some popular stereotype. However, Americans seem to be a
free-for-all target. Many say Americans all enjoy this or behave like
that, while few would *dare* to write "all Irish or Italians are..."

In this part of the country the Americans are remembered with great
affection, and dwindling numbers of wartime aircrew are especially
warmly received when they visit the area and the old airfields.

The two nearest ones to me are still in use - on by a glider club and
the other for light aircraft. These two airfields (Tibenham and Old
Buckenham) were Liberator stations, and their CO was James Stewart.

Until he got too infirm, he used to return fairly often, and a quieter
more unassuming chap I've yet to meet. Our village church has a separate
memorial to those lost when two Liberators collided over the parish.
Survivors of that came to the dedication, but JS was not well enough to
attend.

Jack Kennedy's elder brother was killed flying out from another (very
secret) local airfield, Fersfield. Old Liberators, Fortresses etc which
were not economically repairable were patched up and taken there, where
they were packed out with explosives.

A pilot would take one up, set it on a course for a target in Germany,
and bale out over the coast, to be fished out of the briny by the Royal
Navy. Unfortunately, Kennedy's flying bomb just couldn't wait, and
exploded before the coast was reached.

I'm sorry to be so sensitive, but I *do* get tired of persistant
slanging about the manners, speech, habits, food tastes, and general
alertness of "Americans," and being accused of blind chauvinism when I
beg to differ. (Not that *you* have, but some do.)

We in East Anglia have proprietorial rights over Americans, you know.
They are 'our boys' just as much as the RAF aircrew, and accordingly, we
can dig at each-other as only good friends can.

OTOH, having grown up in New Mexico, I'm free to go on at length about
how awful Texans --- all Texans of any stripe whatsoever -- are. :-)

Unfortunately (FSVO of unfortunately) he population is so mobile
nowadays that when I go on about Silly Suffolk there's no reaction
because I'm talking to someone who came from somewhere else entirely,
and doesn't know where the 'silly' epithet came from in the first place.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

The message
from VivienB contains these words:

Having met USians while working in a USian company and met some when
travelling, I am aware that the 'American' accent varies a great deal
more than those we hear on TV or in the movies. It seems a very
limited range of USian accents are considered acceptable for British
consumption. I cannot tell whether this arises at the production end
of the process, or if buyers/distributors of TV programmes and films
act as a filter. It should also be said that British accents in 'real
life' vary much more and are often much stronger than heard via the
'meeja' .

I could listen to Garrison Keillor all day.......

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

The message
from martin contains these words:

I've noticed the same about some British and most other nationalities
when they are on holiday abroad. There is still a type of Brit., who
thinks shouting makes up for not being able to speak a foreign
language.

Doesn't it? I SAID, DOESN'T IT?

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 14:23:31 GMT, Anne Jackson
wrote:

I found (in London) that no matter what the (American) _accent_ is,
the mode is usually LOUD!

We must not have encountered each other. I am soft-spoken at home and
abroad. As I suppose you are. Perhaps you were beside me when a
clearly-identifiable American woman made a nuisance of herself loudly
repeating every other line of a play to her companion. This is rude in
London. It is also rude in Chicago or Elko, Nevada.

The message
from Frogleg contains these words:


I'm sorry to be so sensitive, but I *do* get tired of persistant
slanging about the manners, speech, habits, food tastes, and general
alertness of "Americans," and being accused of blind chauvinism when I
beg to differ. (Not that *you* have, but some do.)

That's right, we haven't; so give us a break.

In return, we'll try very hard not to sob and whinge whenever some
tactless and insensitive poster from another country pokes us in the
ribs on size, British manners, quaint beliefs, Londoners, habits,
colonial past, food, climate, etc.

Janet

"Janet Tweedy" wrote in message
...
Searching for something about a speaker I can across a forum type web
site which purports to be American and yet has OUR messages on it! Does
anyone know anymore about this?
Sacha has emailed the webmaster to ask if he /she has permission

I mean to say, did you all know that your names were flying around the
US gardening sites....


I've had a look at their site. I wasn't sure at first what I thought but I
think this sums it up:

1. I can see no significant difference in putting a link to URG which would
open in the user's mail program, and a reproduction of the group which can
be viewed through a web browser. The first wouldn't bother me so why should
the second?

2. URG is not 'our newsgroup'. It is open to everyone. As far as I'm
concerned, anything I post can be read by anyone anywhere in the world so
why bother whether they read it direct from URG or second hand from
somewhere else? I also know we have an abc for newcomers which has 'rules'
of behaviour but they really are just voluntary to show courtesy to other
users. It's not in 'our' power to enforce anything and that's how it should
be. I also appreciate that a lot of it isn't entirely relevant to the US
because of climate differences, but it is linked as a UK section so anyone
coming in should know what to expect.

3. The site has adverts at the top of the page but it's not as bad as people
who post them direct to URG. At least it's only their customers who see them
and not us.

4. Maybe we should look at this more as a third-party site with obvious
quantities of traffic who is advertising URG for free on their site?

5. I guess the same goes for GardenBanter et al. If you just think of them
as alternative news readers then where's the problem?

Martin & Anna Sykes
( Remove x's when replying )
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~sykesm

The message
from Frogleg contains these words:

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 14:23:31 GMT, Anne Jackson
wrote:

I found (in London) that no matter what the (American) _accent_ is,
the mode is usually LOUD!

We must not have encountered each other. I am soft-spoken at home and
abroad. As I suppose you are. Perhaps you were beside me when a
clearly-identifiable American woman made a nuisance of herself loudly
repeating every other line of a play to her companion. This is rude in
London. It is also rude in Chicago or Elko, Nevada.

The problem was more manifest on the Tube. Two Americans, usually at
opposite ends of the carriage, would identify each other as such, and
proceed to hold a conversation.....neither bothering to move nearer
to the other! 8-((

--
AnneJ
ICQ #:- 119531282

Jaques d'Alltrades25/1/04 5:32

The message
from VivienB contains these words:

Having met USians while working in a USian company and met some when
travelling, I am aware that the 'American' accent varies a great deal
more than those we hear on TV or in the movies. It seems a very
limited range of USian accents are considered acceptable for British
consumption. I cannot tell whether this arises at the production end
of the process, or if buyers/distributors of TV programmes and films
act as a filter. It should also be said that British accents in 'real
life' vary much more and are often much stronger than heard via the
'meeja' .

I could listen to Garrison Keillor all day.......

Oh, YES. I bought several of his tapes when we were in San Francisco in
2003. That man's voice should be bottled and sold as a cure-all!
--

Sacha
(remove the 'x' to email me)

In article , martin
writes
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 17:19:27 +0000, John Rouse
wrote:

I suggest you read up on the law of copyright. What is written here
remains the copyright of the author, unless assigned to another.

If that was true, it would be impossible for a newsgroup to propagate
messages.

Why?
--
John Rouse

Martin Sykes25/1/04 7:08
om
snip
5. I guess the same goes for GardenBanter et al. If you just think of them
as alternative news readers then where's the problem?


I have no particular problem with my deathless prose misleading unfortunate
American gardeners if only because, I hope, they'll take it out on that site
and not this one.
But the *problem* I have is that it's sneaky and IMO, dishonest. This is a
newsgroup free of advertising or direct selling for the most part; the
majority stick to the 'rules' with regard to that. That site is not doing
as urg does and I think it mendacious to pretend that all this rather useful
info is being sent to that site so that people will go there to read adverts
for magazines and whatever else it occurs to them to peddle.
I have a particular dislike of lies and to me, this appears to be a form of
lying. It's not important enough to get in a hissy fit but I'm grateful to
Janet that we all now know about it.

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the 'x' to email me)

The message
from Frogleg contains these words:

Thanks. This is interesting. I've long been a devotee of Brit books,
films, and TV, and can sort out a fair number of the stronger accents.
Not like Professor Higgens, but more in the line of north, south, and
west. And BBC. :-) I think US media *does* present a kind of
LA-generic picture. (Los Angeles, not Louisiana) Strong regional
accents are usually relegated to 'character' parts. But there *are*
distinctly regional accents here, too. Various southern ones can be
quite pronounced. The Maine 'down-easter' is distinctive, as is the
Scandinavian influence in the upper (northern) midwest. Etc., etc.

Having spent some time on the Isle of Lewis (Top left hand corner) and
returned to the Home Counties (Grouped round London) I was waiting to
buy a place in East Anglia and had an ice-cream van during that time.

A couple of women used to come and buy ice-creams for when the kids came
out of school, and it was always the younger, the daughter, I correctly
guessed, who ordered them.

One day the elder woman was by herself and she ordered a ninety-nine and
a Popeye. I served her, then said: "This might seem a strange thing to
ask, but could you ask me for those again?"

She gave me a very odd look and said: "Carn I harve a nainty-naine arnd
a Porpeye?" I said to her (not sure of all spellings here!) "Meall thu
Ruadhasach?" (pronounced Melu Roo-och, and meaning 'Are you from
Point?')

She nearly dropped the ice creams.

"Not only do I find an Englishman in Essex who recognises exactly where
I come from, but he speaks Gaelic with a Lewis accent!"

Spelling it is an entirely different kettle of fish.

Who can guess how to pronounce 'bithidh'?

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 17:30:51 GMT, Jaques d'Alltrades
wrote:

The message
from martin contains these words:

I've noticed the same about some British and most other nationalities
when they are on holiday abroad. There is still a type of Brit., who
thinks shouting makes up for not being able to speak a foreign
language.

Doesn't it? I SAID, DOESN'T IT?

Q U E ?
--
Martin