Re-crossposted to unnc ...

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 23:23:09 -0000, "Bob Hobden"
wrote:

~
~"Janet wrote in message
~ REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
~
~ This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the following changes
~ in the uk.* Usenet hierarchy:
~
~ create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.gardening.allotments
~
~
~ Is there a need for one ???? The suggested topics are all discussed in
~ uk.rec.gardening anyway, (where Gary Poston has never taken part) and
~ are of equal interest to many gardeners who don't hold an allotment.
~
~
~As you know, I am an allotment holder, also an allotment site
~representative, and I just can't see the need for a separate Ng. Gardening
~is gardening, whether it's in a back yard, a huge garden around a house or
~on an allotment site. We all learn from each others different experiences.
~Just look at some other gardening Ngs, dead in the water.
~Suppose it all comes down to, are you a splitter of a lumper, just like the
~botanists. I'm a lumper because I think one learns more about more with
~input from diverse sources.
~

I agree with you - I came to urg because of my allotment questions,
and have learned loads about all sorts of things I'll never grow for
one reason or another, and got some fantastic ideas, and also some
seed swaps. For instance, I'd never have learned about the waterbutt
irrigation systems available if it wasn't for urg, which was in a
normal gardening post last summer but is fantastically appropriate to
allotments.


--
jane

Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone,
you may still exist but you have ceased to live.
Mark Twain

Please remove onmaps from replies, thanks!

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 02:38:08 GMT, Jaques d'Alltrades
wrote:

Derek (proponent uk.rec.shooting.*, and that *was* an eye-opener!)

Go on - open my eyes?

do a google groups search for uk.sport.shooting and/or uk.rec.shooting
- it's not pretty!

(jane) wrote in message ...
Re-crossposted to unnc ...

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 23:23:09 -0000, "Bob Hobden"
wrote:
~Suppose it all comes down to, are you a splitter of a lumper, just like the
~botanists. I'm a lumper because I think one learns more about more with
~input from diverse sources.
~

I agree with you - I came to urg because of my allotment questions,
and have learned loads about all sorts of things ....

I lurk - and occasionally post - in urg, and can see nothing so
uniquely different about allotment gardening to justify a separate
group. I'm not likely to lurk in two groups, so it would be to my
detrement.

Opposed.

Bob Harvey

bobharvey {snailly thing} europe {dotty thing} com

The message
from Derek Turner contains these words:
On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 02:38:08 GMT, Jaques d'Alltrades
wrote:

Derek (proponent uk.rec.shooting.*, and that *was* an eye-opener!)

Go on - open my eyes?

do a google groups search for uk.sport.shooting and/or uk.rec.shooting
- it's not pretty!

Too much RL to occupy me for that ATM. I'll have a look sometime maybe.

I stopped taking uk.rec.shooting by omission rather than design when I
reinstalled my internet software a while ago, so your reference stirred
some interest.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

The message
from Derek Turner contains these words:
On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 02:38:08 GMT, Jaques d'Alltrades
wrote:

Derek (proponent uk.rec.shooting.*, and that *was* an eye-opener!)

Go on - open my eyes?

do a google groups search for uk.sport.shooting and/or uk.rec.shooting
- it's not pretty!

Too much RL to occupy me for that ATM. I'll have a look sometime maybe.

I stopped taking uk.rec.shooting by omission rather than design when I
reinstalled my internet software a while ago, so your reference stirred
some interest.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

snip

Just reviewed the comments to date.

Only seen two (I think) which say "I would like the new group because I am
an allotment gardener".
Mainly split between "Why stop it" and "Why do it".

I currently oppose the new NG because I believe it would split off content
of interest to allotment and non-allotment gardeners and reduce the richness
of the current uk.rec.gardening NG.

Given that there is no obvious sign of an overload of allotment topics, nor
complaints from allotment holders that their needs are being ignored, I see
no obvious need.

Opposed.

Regards
Dave R

snip

Just reviewed the comments to date.

Only seen two (I think) which say "I would like the new group because I am
an allotment gardener".
Mainly split between "Why stop it" and "Why do it".

I currently oppose the new NG because I believe it would split off content
of interest to allotment and non-allotment gardeners and reduce the richness
of the current uk.rec.gardening NG.

Given that there is no obvious sign of an overload of allotment topics, nor
complaints from allotment holders that their needs are being ignored, I see
no obvious need.

Opposed.

Regards
Dave R

Hello Everyone,
I do hope that this message gets out to you all as my ISP seems to be
getting a few problems at the moment so this is coming from my Google Account
I hope my ISP will deal with my problem asap.

I've been lurking on urg for sometime and see a need for an Allotment group
forming.
I can't yet see a valid explanation why the RFD uk.rec.gardens.allotments
can't be formed. (Unless for administration purposes)
uk.rec.gardens.allotments is an idea from my good self for Allotment holders
to share in the ideas and plans into what is expected to be planted at
different times of the year, (newbie's) also, allotments are not just a
general "back garden" affair as you all well know.
Basically it's a "Corner of the room" (as someone already pointed out) so we
can talk just about anything on "Allotments". For example, Local Meetings,
Annual General Meetings and Local Allotment Functions or just a get together
at the local public house. Yes, we will indeed may well talk about "Seeds"
Planting Methods" "Greenhouse's" but this will be our little corner of the
room to do so.
I don't see why you would persist to object to this new group forming. It's
not going to take away people from urg. After all it's a free country
I'm not sure if I could stop "cross posting" unless I do make amendments to
my charter. However I still won't be able to stop this if people persist in
doing so.

Thank you to all those that would support such a group and hope that this
group can be formed in the not to distant future.

I'm sure we could come to some agreement on this and to iron out any
problems that it may or may not cause.



Regards

Gary Poston
Proponent: uk.rec.gardening.allotments

In article , Jaques d'Alltrades
writes
The message ]
from "Wm..." contains these words:

/sharp slice with mattock/

So the thing for urglers to think about is this: would you read and
post to, actively take part in, the proposed group or would you carry on
much as you do now in urg?

I would see if I thought it worthwhile to subscribe to, and give it a
few months.

I wouldn't bother. I don't actively grow veg, and I don't have an
allotment.


If you think (as I do) that allotments are covered by urg then say so
too.

Yes. I think urg covers allotments.

I agree.

No pack drill, no forced planting of dahlias or carrots

HTH -- I will vote with the flow of most urg folks.

My vote hasn't fallen one way or the other - yet.

I will abstain unless someone can convince me that this concerns me. If
someone wants to create an unnecessary group which isn't going to harm
me, I don't think it's my business to try to stop them.

--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Well this proposed group will either take off or end like
england.rec.gardening and free.uk.gardening,
Time will tell, but I an certain that it will take nothing away from
uk.rec.gardening

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

"David Hill" wrote in message
...
Well this proposed group will either take off or end like
england.rec.gardening and free.uk.gardening,
Time will tell, but I an certain that it will take nothing away from
uk.rec.gardening


Not that I have an interest in gardening (as anyone who looks at mine will
testify) and wouldn't therefore vote but I thought I'd check some figures
via Google.

uk.rec.gardening turned up an estimated 148,000 posts of which 4,940
(earliest of which appears to be from March 2002)had the word allotment in
them.

BigAl

"BigAl" wrote in message
uk.rec.gardening turned up an estimated 148,000 posts of which 4,940
(earliest of which appears to be from March 2002)had the word allotment in
them.

So that's 3.33%.

regards
Bob

The message
from "BigAl" contains these words:

Not that I have an interest in gardening (as anyone who looks at mine will
testify) and wouldn't therefore vote but I thought I'd check some figures
via Google.

uk.rec.gardening turned up an estimated 148,000 posts of which 4,940
(earliest of which appears to be from March 2002)had the word allotment in
them.

And this indicates?

That urg seems to cater adequately for allotments?

That there is sufficient allotment traffic to support a separate group?

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

The message
from "Bob Hobden" contains these words:
"BigAl" wrote in message

uk.rec.gardening turned up an estimated 148,000 posts of which 4,940
(earliest of which appears to be from March 2002)had the word allotment in
them.

So that's 3.33%.

Red herring alert!

Just because the word 'allotment' doesn't appear in a post it deosn't
mean to say that it isn't replying to one that does, or in an allotment
oriented thread.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

On 29 Jan 2004 12:14:19 -0800, (Gary Poston)
wrote:

~Hello Everyone,
~I do hope that this message gets out to you all as my ISP seems to be
~getting a few problems at the moment so this is coming from my Google Account
~I hope my ISP will deal with my problem asap.
~
ok firstly I am neither against this or for it at the moment... being
an allotmenteer that found urg in the first place cos I wanted to find
a place to discuss allotments. Like you, by the sound of it.
But I'm known for being able to sit on a fence and argue both sides of
an argument, so here goes... :-)

~I've been lurking on urg for sometime and see a need for an Allotment group
~forming.

Why didn't you start a discussion on urg first? This is the bit that
puzzles me! Surely introducing yourself and then having a 'Would it be
a good idea if...?" discussion over there before dashing to unnc would
have been a good idea?

My questions below are attempting to summarise the discussion so
far...

~I can't yet see a valid explanation why the RFD uk.rec.gardens.allotments
~can't be formed. (Unless for administration purposes)
~uk.rec.gardens.allotments is an idea from my good self for Allotment holders
~to share in the ideas and plans into what is expected to be planted at
~different times of the year, (newbie's) also, allotments are not just a
~general "back garden" affair as you all well know.

Allotments are on topic for urg. A lot of the the things applicable to
allotments come up in normal gardening discussions. There is nothing
about allotments and tenancies etc that is not on topic for urg.

~Basically it's a "Corner of the room" (as someone already pointed out) so we
~can talk just about anything on "Allotments". For example, Local Meetings,
~Annual General Meetings and Local Allotment Functions or just a get together
~at the local public house. Yes, we will indeed may well talk about "Seeds"
~Planting Methods" "Greenhouse's" but this will be our little corner of the
~room to do so.
Ah - get-togethers. A social group :-). This isn't specifically
forbidden in urg, either. Meetings have been planned and made on urg.

~I don't see why you would persist to object to this new group forming. It's
~not going to take away people from urg. After all it's a free country
~I'm not sure if I could stop "cross posting" unless I do make amendments to
~my charter. However I still won't be able to stop this if people persist in
~doing so.

Well the only reason there are doubts is that everything is already
included in urg and urglers aren't exactly begging for the
allotmenteers to buzz off and talk elsewhere. In other words, from the
discussions already made, urglers would be delighted if you dropped in
on urg and talked allotments there!

~Thank you to all those that would support such a group and hope that this
~group can be formed in the not to distant future.
~
~I'm sure we could come to some agreement on this and to iron out any
~problems that it may or may not cause.
~

I would subscribe to a group on allotments, no doubt about that.
I would probably be a very loud participant :-)
I am just unsure that it's needed, unless allotmenteers already here
don't want to receive any of the other posts in urg which aren't
relevant to lotties.

Straw Poll question for urglers: if urg.allotments was created, how
many of you would unsub from urg and _just_ take urg. allotments?

I wouldn't. I'd take both.


--
jane

Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone,
you may still exist but you have ceased to live.
Mark Twain

Please remove onmaps from replies, thanks!