On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:37:57 -0000, "David W.E. Roberts"
wrote:


"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message
...
The message nMN0c.2447$zu.2073@newsfe1-win
from "Andy Hunt" contains these words:
A friend of mine suggested having a go at making some organic beer, from
scratch. I hope he knows what he's doing.

I presume that you are proposing to grow your own barley, if you are
starting from scratch? You will probably need quite a large plot to ensure
you have enough grain for several attempts at beer making - you should
accept that you may not get it right first time :-)

and your own sugar beet or sugar cane...


This is not something to attempt lightly if you mean *REALLY* from
scratch. You need strictly controlled temperatures when chitting the
barley and malting it, also it must be turned (gently) regularly or it
goes sour.

Not rocket science - at one time loads of smallholders made their own beer.

at one time many expatriates did the same, including the director of a
large oil company in Norway.


Malting the barley is a difficult part of the process because you need to
control the temperature and humidity and turn the grain over a long period.
Not something you can do in a couple of hours, or leave for a few days then
come back to.
However there is an excellent description on how to malt barley on page 69
of "The Complete Book of Self Sufficiency" by John Seymour ISBN
0-7513-0426-3

ISBN 0751304263 and 055298051X
Second hand from UKP5.50 to UKP20 at
http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookSearchPL

This description implies to me that 'kilning' the barly (cooking it at above
120 F but below 140 F to prevent it growing further) is more difficult than
the initial malting.
It is also important to get the colour right, from pale to dark, depending
on the beer you want to produce.
You will also need some kind of mill to crush the malt before brewing.

So you will need a certain amount of infrastructure - a plot to grow the
barly, a floor to malt the barley, a suitable kiln or oven to cook the
malted barley, and a coarse mill to crush the malt.

You will also need to dedicate quality time to it - malting seems to take
about 14 days.


Then when you mash it, the maltose has to be extracted within a very
tight temperature band, about ±1°F for lager malt and ±1°C for English
type beer malt.

Here is where Rusty/Jaques and I part company.
Real home brewers use fresh malt, and can make outstanding beer with home
mashing. You can get mashing tubs with electric heaters and thermostats
which can turn the art into more of a science. You may not get the same
extraction rate as a commercial brewery, but then you just accept that you
are going to be a little less efficient and allow for that in the
quantities.

If the growing and malting is too complex, find a supplier of organic
crushed malt.

e.g. from http://www.beersunlimited.co.uk/grains.html

"Also offered is the organically grown Golden Promise, primarily grown for
distillation but which produces excellent beers."

It is much more sensible to buy spray-dried malt extract.

The (not good but vaguely competent) brewer in me recoils from this heresy
:-))

snip

pssst! want to buy the same type of water that Heineken use? I thought
not :-)
--

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit;
Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad

"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message
...
snip
Best of luck with the beer. Oh, a word of warning: if you are going to
use any sugar in the brew, check on one of the proprietory beer kits how
much they recommend. ON NO ACCOUNT exceed this as a ratio to the malt
they use, as too great a proportion of sugar in a malt brew will lead to
severe headaches and can kill you.
snip

Are you sure about this?
Given that sugar is turned to alchohol by the yeast, which won't ferment
above a certain concentration of alchohol, all you risk AFAIK is that not
all the sugars released by mashing are turned to alchohol.
This will tend to give you a sweet beer, but not AFAIK a deadly brew.

What is this fatal product of which you speak?

ISTR in my student days beefing up malt extract beers with additional sugar,
and never killed anyone.

A slightly puzzled

Dave R

"martin" wrote in message
...
snip

pssst! want to buy the same type of water that Heineken use?

Was that the sound of you producing it? :-))

I thought not :-)
--

"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message
...
The message nMN0c.2447$zu.2073@newsfe1-win
from "Andy Hunt" contains these words:
A friend of mine suggested having a go at making some organic beer, from
scratch. I hope he knows what he's doing.

I presume that you are proposing to grow your own barley, if you are
starting from scratch? You will probably need quite a large plot to ensure
you have enough grain for several attempts at beer making - you should
accept that you may not get it right first time :-)

This is not something to attempt lightly if you mean *REALLY* from
scratch. You need strictly controlled temperatures when chitting the
barley and malting it, also it must be turned (gently) regularly or it
goes sour.

Not rocket science - at one time loads of smallholders made their own beer.

Malting the barley is a difficult part of the process because you need to
control the temperature and humidity and turn the grain over a long period.
Not something you can do in a couple of hours, or leave for a few days then
come back to.
However there is an excellent description on how to malt barley on page 69
of "The Complete Book of Self Sufficiency" by John Seymour ISBN
0-7513-0426-3
This description implies to me that 'kilning' the barly (cooking it at above
120 F but below 140 F to prevent it growing further) is more difficult than
the initial malting.
It is also important to get the colour right, from pale to dark, depending
on the beer you want to produce.
You will also need some kind of mill to crush the malt before brewing.

So you will need a certain amount of infrastructure - a plot to grow the
barly, a floor to malt the barley, a suitable kiln or oven to cook the
malted barley, and a coarse mill to crush the malt.

You will also need to dedicate quality time to it - malting seems to take
about 14 days.


Then when you mash it, the maltose has to be extracted within a very
tight temperature band, about ±1°F for lager malt and ±1°C for English
type beer malt.

Here is where Rusty/Jaques and I part company.
Real home brewers use fresh malt, and can make outstanding beer with home
mashing. You can get mashing tubs with electric heaters and thermostats
which can turn the art into more of a science. You may not get the same
extraction rate as a commercial brewery, but then you just accept that you
are going to be a little less efficient and allow for that in the
quantities.

If the growing and malting is too complex, find a supplier of organic
crushed malt.

e.g. from http://www.beersunlimited.co.uk/grains.html

"Also offered is the organically grown Golden Promise, primarily grown for
distillation but which produces excellent beers."

It is much more sensible to buy spray-dried malt extract.

The (not good but vaguely competent) brewer in me recoils from this heresy
:-))

snip

Cheers

Dave R

On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:25:15 -0000, "David W.E. Roberts"
wrote:


"martin" wrote in message
.. .
snip

pssst! want to buy the same type of water that Heineken use?

Was that the sound of you producing it? :-))

I thought not :-)

You've won a week in Zoetewoude.

[urea joke in here somewhere]

This made me smile - from their website

"People are as essential to Heineken as hops and yeast."
--

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit;
Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad

In article ,
David W.E. Roberts wrote:

Then when you mash it, the maltose has to be extracted within a very
tight temperature band, about ±1°F for lager malt and ±1°C for English
type beer malt.

Here is where Rusty/Jaques and I part company.
Real home brewers use fresh malt, and can make outstanding beer with home
mashing. You can get mashing tubs with electric heaters and thermostats
which can turn the art into more of a science. You may not get the same
extraction rate as a commercial brewery, but then you just accept that you
are going to be a little less efficient and allow for that in the
quantities.

Indeed. I used to use malt extract for making my own beer, but now work
entirely from crushed malt and (IMHO) the results are far superior.
Most of the home brewing books I've read suggest that the mash can be
carried out in an unheated, insulated plastic brewing bucket, so I
cannot believe that the mash is that temperature sensitive.

Just checking though the closest book to hand, it suggests an acceptable
temperature range for mashing of between 62C and 69C.

It is much more sensible to buy spray-dried malt extract.

The (not good but vaguely competent) brewer in me recoils from this heresy
:-))

Ditto.

James

"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message
...
The message nMN0c.2447$zu.2073@newsfe1-win
from "Andy Hunt" contains these words:
A friend of mine suggested having a go at making some organic beer, from
scratch. I hope he knows what he's doing.

I presume that you are proposing to grow your own barley, if you are
starting from scratch? You will probably need quite a large plot to ensure
you have enough grain for several attempts at beer making - you should
accept that you may not get it right first time :-)

This is not something to attempt lightly if you mean *REALLY* from
scratch. You need strictly controlled temperatures when chitting the
barley and malting it, also it must be turned (gently) regularly or it
goes sour.

Not rocket science - at one time loads of smallholders made their own beer.

Malting the barley is a difficult part of the process because you need to
control the temperature and humidity and turn the grain over a long period.
Not something you can do in a couple of hours, or leave for a few days then
come back to.
However there is an excellent description on how to malt barley on page 69
of "The Complete Book of Self Sufficiency" by John Seymour ISBN
0-7513-0426-3
This description implies to me that 'kilning' the barly (cooking it at above
120 F but below 140 F to prevent it growing further) is more difficult than
the initial malting.
It is also important to get the colour right, from pale to dark, depending
on the beer you want to produce.
You will also need some kind of mill to crush the malt before brewing.

So you will need a certain amount of infrastructure - a plot to grow the
barly, a floor to malt the barley, a suitable kiln or oven to cook the
malted barley, and a coarse mill to crush the malt.

You will also need to dedicate quality time to it - malting seems to take
about 14 days.


Then when you mash it, the maltose has to be extracted within a very
tight temperature band, about ±1°F for lager malt and ±1°C for English
type beer malt.

Here is where Rusty/Jaques and I part company.
Real home brewers use fresh malt, and can make outstanding beer with home
mashing. You can get mashing tubs with electric heaters and thermostats
which can turn the art into more of a science. You may not get the same
extraction rate as a commercial brewery, but then you just accept that you
are going to be a little less efficient and allow for that in the
quantities.

If the growing and malting is too complex, find a supplier of organic
crushed malt.

e.g. from http://www.beersunlimited.co.uk/grains.html

"Also offered is the organically grown Golden Promise, primarily grown for
distillation but which produces excellent beers."

It is much more sensible to buy spray-dried malt extract.

The (not good but vaguely competent) brewer in me recoils from this heresy
:-))

snip

Cheers

Dave R

On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:37:57 -0000, "David W.E. Roberts"
wrote:


"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message
...
The message nMN0c.2447$zu.2073@newsfe1-win
from "Andy Hunt" contains these words:
A friend of mine suggested having a go at making some organic beer, from
scratch. I hope he knows what he's doing.

I presume that you are proposing to grow your own barley, if you are
starting from scratch? You will probably need quite a large plot to ensure
you have enough grain for several attempts at beer making - you should
accept that you may not get it right first time :-)

and your own sugar beet or sugar cane...


This is not something to attempt lightly if you mean *REALLY* from
scratch. You need strictly controlled temperatures when chitting the
barley and malting it, also it must be turned (gently) regularly or it
goes sour.

Not rocket science - at one time loads of smallholders made their own beer.

at one time many expatriates did the same, including the director of a
large oil company in Norway.


Malting the barley is a difficult part of the process because you need to
control the temperature and humidity and turn the grain over a long period.
Not something you can do in a couple of hours, or leave for a few days then
come back to.
However there is an excellent description on how to malt barley on page 69
of "The Complete Book of Self Sufficiency" by John Seymour ISBN
0-7513-0426-3

ISBN 0751304263 and 055298051X
Second hand from UKP5.50 to UKP20 at
http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookSearchPL

This description implies to me that 'kilning' the barly (cooking it at above
120 F but below 140 F to prevent it growing further) is more difficult than
the initial malting.
It is also important to get the colour right, from pale to dark, depending
on the beer you want to produce.
You will also need some kind of mill to crush the malt before brewing.

So you will need a certain amount of infrastructure - a plot to grow the
barly, a floor to malt the barley, a suitable kiln or oven to cook the
malted barley, and a coarse mill to crush the malt.

You will also need to dedicate quality time to it - malting seems to take
about 14 days.


Then when you mash it, the maltose has to be extracted within a very
tight temperature band, about ±1°F for lager malt and ±1°C for English
type beer malt.

Here is where Rusty/Jaques and I part company.
Real home brewers use fresh malt, and can make outstanding beer with home
mashing. You can get mashing tubs with electric heaters and thermostats
which can turn the art into more of a science. You may not get the same
extraction rate as a commercial brewery, but then you just accept that you
are going to be a little less efficient and allow for that in the
quantities.

If the growing and malting is too complex, find a supplier of organic
crushed malt.

e.g. from http://www.beersunlimited.co.uk/grains.html

"Also offered is the organically grown Golden Promise, primarily grown for
distillation but which produces excellent beers."

It is much more sensible to buy spray-dried malt extract.

The (not good but vaguely competent) brewer in me recoils from this heresy
:-))

snip

pssst! want to buy the same type of water that Heineken use? I thought
not :-)
--

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit;
Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad

"martin" wrote in message
...
snip

pssst! want to buy the same type of water that Heineken use?

Was that the sound of you producing it? :-))

I thought not :-)
--

"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message
...
snip
Best of luck with the beer. Oh, a word of warning: if you are going to
use any sugar in the brew, check on one of the proprietory beer kits how
much they recommend. ON NO ACCOUNT exceed this as a ratio to the malt
they use, as too great a proportion of sugar in a malt brew will lead to
severe headaches and can kill you.
snip

Are you sure about this?
Given that sugar is turned to alchohol by the yeast, which won't ferment
above a certain concentration of alchohol, all you risk AFAIK is that not
all the sugars released by mashing are turned to alchohol.
This will tend to give you a sweet beer, but not AFAIK a deadly brew.

What is this fatal product of which you speak?

ISTR in my student days beefing up malt extract beers with additional sugar,
and never killed anyone.

A slightly puzzled

Dave R

On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:37:57 -0000, "David W.E. Roberts"
wrote:


"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message
...
The message nMN0c.2447$zu.2073@newsfe1-win
from "Andy Hunt" contains these words:
A friend of mine suggested having a go at making some organic beer, from
scratch. I hope he knows what he's doing.

I presume that you are proposing to grow your own barley, if you are
starting from scratch? You will probably need quite a large plot to ensure
you have enough grain for several attempts at beer making - you should
accept that you may not get it right first time :-)

and your own sugar beet or sugar cane...


This is not something to attempt lightly if you mean *REALLY* from
scratch. You need strictly controlled temperatures when chitting the
barley and malting it, also it must be turned (gently) regularly or it
goes sour.

Not rocket science - at one time loads of smallholders made their own beer.

at one time many expatriates did the same, including the director of a
large oil company in Norway.


Malting the barley is a difficult part of the process because you need to
control the temperature and humidity and turn the grain over a long period.
Not something you can do in a couple of hours, or leave for a few days then
come back to.
However there is an excellent description on how to malt barley on page 69
of "The Complete Book of Self Sufficiency" by John Seymour ISBN
0-7513-0426-3

ISBN 0751304263 and 055298051X
Second hand from UKP5.50 to UKP20 at
http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookSearchPL

This description implies to me that 'kilning' the barly (cooking it at above
120 F but below 140 F to prevent it growing further) is more difficult than
the initial malting.
It is also important to get the colour right, from pale to dark, depending
on the beer you want to produce.
You will also need some kind of mill to crush the malt before brewing.

So you will need a certain amount of infrastructure - a plot to grow the
barly, a floor to malt the barley, a suitable kiln or oven to cook the
malted barley, and a coarse mill to crush the malt.

You will also need to dedicate quality time to it - malting seems to take
about 14 days.


Then when you mash it, the maltose has to be extracted within a very
tight temperature band, about ±1°F for lager malt and ±1°C for English
type beer malt.

Here is where Rusty/Jaques and I part company.
Real home brewers use fresh malt, and can make outstanding beer with home
mashing. You can get mashing tubs with electric heaters and thermostats
which can turn the art into more of a science. You may not get the same
extraction rate as a commercial brewery, but then you just accept that you
are going to be a little less efficient and allow for that in the
quantities.

If the growing and malting is too complex, find a supplier of organic
crushed malt.

e.g. from http://www.beersunlimited.co.uk/grains.html

"Also offered is the organically grown Golden Promise, primarily grown for
distillation but which produces excellent beers."

It is much more sensible to buy spray-dried malt extract.

The (not good but vaguely competent) brewer in me recoils from this heresy
:-))

snip

pssst! want to buy the same type of water that Heineken use? I thought
not :-)
--

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit;
Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad

"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message
...
The message nMN0c.2447$zu.2073@newsfe1-win
from "Andy Hunt" contains these words:
A friend of mine suggested having a go at making some organic beer, from
scratch. I hope he knows what he's doing.

I presume that you are proposing to grow your own barley, if you are
starting from scratch? You will probably need quite a large plot to ensure
you have enough grain for several attempts at beer making - you should
accept that you may not get it right first time :-)

This is not something to attempt lightly if you mean *REALLY* from
scratch. You need strictly controlled temperatures when chitting the
barley and malting it, also it must be turned (gently) regularly or it
goes sour.

Not rocket science - at one time loads of smallholders made their own beer.

Malting the barley is a difficult part of the process because you need to
control the temperature and humidity and turn the grain over a long period.
Not something you can do in a couple of hours, or leave for a few days then
come back to.
However there is an excellent description on how to malt barley on page 69
of "The Complete Book of Self Sufficiency" by John Seymour ISBN
0-7513-0426-3
This description implies to me that 'kilning' the barly (cooking it at above
120 F but below 140 F to prevent it growing further) is more difficult than
the initial malting.
It is also important to get the colour right, from pale to dark, depending
on the beer you want to produce.
You will also need some kind of mill to crush the malt before brewing.

So you will need a certain amount of infrastructure - a plot to grow the
barly, a floor to malt the barley, a suitable kiln or oven to cook the
malted barley, and a coarse mill to crush the malt.

You will also need to dedicate quality time to it - malting seems to take
about 14 days.


Then when you mash it, the maltose has to be extracted within a very
tight temperature band, about ±1°F for lager malt and ±1°C for English
type beer malt.

Here is where Rusty/Jaques and I part company.
Real home brewers use fresh malt, and can make outstanding beer with home
mashing. You can get mashing tubs with electric heaters and thermostats
which can turn the art into more of a science. You may not get the same
extraction rate as a commercial brewery, but then you just accept that you
are going to be a little less efficient and allow for that in the
quantities.

If the growing and malting is too complex, find a supplier of organic
crushed malt.

e.g. from http://www.beersunlimited.co.uk/grains.html

"Also offered is the organically grown Golden Promise, primarily grown for
distillation but which produces excellent beers."

It is much more sensible to buy spray-dried malt extract.

The (not good but vaguely competent) brewer in me recoils from this heresy
:-))

snip

Cheers

Dave R

In article , Jaques d'Alltrades
writes

Hop (Humulus lupulus) is a relative of the mulberry. Hemp used to be
considered to be a relative of the mulberry, but is now more commonly
placed in its own group.

So when did that happen? Stace - the standard flora of the british
isles, has Cannabis and Humulus in the Cannabinacae, and Morus and Ficus
in Moraceae.

Blamey, Fitter and Fitter, Wild Flowers of Britain and Ireland, pub
2003, also has Humulus and Cannabis in the same family.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:37:57 -0000, "David W.E. Roberts"
wrote:


"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message
...
The message nMN0c.2447$zu.2073@newsfe1-win
from "Andy Hunt" contains these words:
A friend of mine suggested having a go at making some organic beer, from
scratch. I hope he knows what he's doing.

I presume that you are proposing to grow your own barley, if you are
starting from scratch? You will probably need quite a large plot to ensure
you have enough grain for several attempts at beer making - you should
accept that you may not get it right first time :-)

and your own sugar beet or sugar cane...


This is not something to attempt lightly if you mean *REALLY* from
scratch. You need strictly controlled temperatures when chitting the
barley and malting it, also it must be turned (gently) regularly or it
goes sour.

Not rocket science - at one time loads of smallholders made their own beer.

at one time many expatriates did the same, including the director of a
large oil company in Norway.


Malting the barley is a difficult part of the process because you need to
control the temperature and humidity and turn the grain over a long period.
Not something you can do in a couple of hours, or leave for a few days then
come back to.
However there is an excellent description on how to malt barley on page 69
of "The Complete Book of Self Sufficiency" by John Seymour ISBN
0-7513-0426-3

ISBN 0751304263 and 055298051X
Second hand from UKP5.50 to UKP20 at
http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookSearchPL

This description implies to me that 'kilning' the barly (cooking it at above
120 F but below 140 F to prevent it growing further) is more difficult than
the initial malting.
It is also important to get the colour right, from pale to dark, depending
on the beer you want to produce.
You will also need some kind of mill to crush the malt before brewing.

So you will need a certain amount of infrastructure - a plot to grow the
barly, a floor to malt the barley, a suitable kiln or oven to cook the
malted barley, and a coarse mill to crush the malt.

You will also need to dedicate quality time to it - malting seems to take
about 14 days.


Then when you mash it, the maltose has to be extracted within a very
tight temperature band, about ±1°F for lager malt and ±1°C for English
type beer malt.

Here is where Rusty/Jaques and I part company.
Real home brewers use fresh malt, and can make outstanding beer with home
mashing. You can get mashing tubs with electric heaters and thermostats
which can turn the art into more of a science. You may not get the same
extraction rate as a commercial brewery, but then you just accept that you
are going to be a little less efficient and allow for that in the
quantities.

If the growing and malting is too complex, find a supplier of organic
crushed malt.

e.g. from http://www.beersunlimited.co.uk/grains.html

"Also offered is the organically grown Golden Promise, primarily grown for
distillation but which produces excellent beers."

It is much more sensible to buy spray-dried malt extract.

The (not good but vaguely competent) brewer in me recoils from this heresy
:-))

snip

pssst! want to buy the same type of water that Heineken use? I thought
not :-)
--

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit;
Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad

"martin" wrote in message
...
snip

pssst! want to buy the same type of water that Heineken use?

Was that the sound of you producing it? :-))

I thought not :-)
--