"...........I've had lots of fun eating ripe apples while they were still
hanging on to their trees ... not that I'd do that these days, nope, not me.
That? Nah, that must've been somebody else ........"

That must be as hard as apple bobbing.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

Guy King wrote:
Henriette Kress wrote:

I've had lots of fun eating ripe apples while they were still hanging
on to their trees ... not that I'd do that these days, nope, not me.
That? Nah, that must've been somebody else.

Trying to make it look like a really large wasp was responsible?

Nah, trying to make it look like an apple eaten all around on the tree.

'course, now that I've been doing that for years, peoples faces aren't
as watchworthy anymore, when they notice them.

--
Henriette Kress, AHG Helsinki, Finland
Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed

(Nick Maclaren) wrote:

Nick: I was happy to see an old acquaintance but am no longer, because
of the way you quote.

In article ,
Henriette Kress hetta @ spamcop.net wrote:

You do realize that spammers pick those ^ up? You also realize there's a
REASON people spamtrap their addresses, namely that they're sick and
tired of spam?

_You_ might not be sick of spam, but then, you might not have received
thousands of junk mail, hundreds MBs (yes) of spam and viruses a month.
There's a limit and I reached it a year or so ago.

'course, I used to have my email address out there for all and sundry
to admire, for years and years ... not anymore. That address is now
_completely_ useless and also completely ditched. Composted. Buried
deep. Forgotten, recycled, the letters reused for other electronic bits.

Henriette

--
Henriette Kress, AHG Helsinki, Finland
Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed

In article ,
Henriette Kress writes:
| (Nick Maclaren) wrote:
|
| Nick: I was happy to see an old acquaintance but am no longer, because
| of the way you quote.

I am afraid that you are under a serious delusion about how posting
(and spamming) works. See below for what YOU got wrong, and some
clues about how to fix it!

| In article ,
| Henriette Kress hetta @ spamcop.net wrote:
|
| You do realize that spammers pick those ^ up? You also realize there's a
| REASON people spamtrap their addresses, namely that they're sick and
| tired of spam?

Well, of course, but I also realise how many people fail to do it
properly - which does rather account for the way that it doesn't
work for them!

| _You_ might not be sick of spam, but then, you might not have received
| thousands of junk mail, hundreds MBs (yes) of spam and viruses a month.
| There's a limit and I reached it a year or so ago.

I usually receive dozens a day, and have reached hundreds.

| 'course, I used to have my email address out there for all and sundry
| to admire, for years and years ... not anymore. That address is now
| _completely_ useless and also completely ditched. Composted. Buried
| deep. Forgotten, recycled, the letters reused for other electronic bits.

I responded using one of my newsreaders' Followup facility, which
took your Email address intact from the message you had posted.
What you have missed is that postings are based on Email, and there
is an envelope (which is used for actual delivery etc.) outside the
header that you see. It used not to be like that under Unix, but I
shall omit the history lesson :-)

Anyway, that envelope is as usable by spambots as the header - it
is just an option in your newsreader not to show it by default. For
example, here is the default output from trn:

From: Henriette Kress
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening,uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Hedging

And here is the selected output when using the verbose option:

From: Henriette Kress
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening,uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Hedging
. . .
Reply-To: hetta @ spamcop.net (no blanks)
NNTP-Posting-Host: ua120d39.elisa.omakaista.fi

So, if you want to play the trick of hiding your address, you will
have to ensure that the Reply-To field is ALSO set to your mangled
address.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 23 Mar 2004 18:41:15 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

In article ,
martin wrote:

"Two men and a 12-year-old boy made a 999 call from a mobile phone
when they found themselves in dangerous conditions in severe gale
force nine winds a quarter of a mile off Whitby's pier ends."

I am trying to imagine what circumstances would create safe conditions
in force nine winds a quarter of a mile off Whitby's pier ends.

They were kayaking - nutters!

In article ,
Henriette Kress hetta @ spamcop.net wrote:

Hola urg, how's life?

Beginning to stop bemoaning the weather and sowing seeds :-)

Dunno that berberis is all that dangerous - it's downright nice compared
to hawthorn. Roses are good teachers, though, especially the wild ones.

Not Berberis vulgaris - that has needle-like spines 1-2" long. And
I mean REALLY like needles. Hawthorn is cuddly by comparison.

And I think every kid should overeat on apples and plums at least once,
preferably somebody elses. In good apple and plum years the garden
owner(s) might make angry noises, but that should just be so's the kids
can think they've done something dangerous, because there's much too
much too much too much fruit.

I've had lots of fun eating ripe apples while they were still hanging
on to their trees ... not that I'd do that these days, nope, not me.
That? Nah, that must've been somebody else.

I recommend unripe bananas for a really good bellyache :-)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

(Nick Maclaren) wrote:

And here is the selected output when using the verbose option:

From: Henriette Kress
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening,uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Hedging
. . .
Reply-To: hetta @ spamcop.net (no blanks)
NNTP-Posting-Host: ua120d39.elisa.omakaista.fi

So, if you want to play the trick of hiding your address, you will
have to ensure that the Reply-To field is ALSO set to your mangled
address.

Right. And you wrote:

In article ,
Henriette Kress hetta @ spamcop.net wrote:

So you pick the name from the From: field and the address from the
Reply-to: field, format the lot, and use that in your attribution line.

I still fail to see why you'd _bother_.

And if you do that for people without even the spaces in their reply-to,
you've just landed them loads more spam than they'd get otherwise. I'm
sure they're all happy to get another dozen viagra, cialis, etc. emails
a day.

Yes, I know that a few bots scan the headers, too, but they're not that
many, and they're pretty stupid, as seen from the fact that a pal with
his own domain got spam to a message-id "email" address. There's a lot
more bots out there scanning message bodies, 'cos that's a piece of
cake, on googlegroups.

Henriette

--
Henriette Kress, AHG Helsinki, Finland
Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed

In article ,
Henriette Kress writes:
| (Nick Maclaren) wrote:
|
| And here is the selected output when using the verbose option:
|
| Reply-To: hetta @ spamcop.net (no blanks)
| NNTP-Posting-Host: ua120d39.elisa.omakaista.fi
|
| So, if you want to play the trick of hiding your address, you will
| have to ensure that the Reply-To field is ALSO set to your mangled
| address.
|
| Right. ...

Well, what about doing it, then?

| So you pick the name from the From: field and the address from the
| Reply-to: field, format the lot, and use that in your attribution line.
|
| I still fail to see why you'd _bother_.

As I said, I didn't. I used one of the most widespread newsreaders
around, with all default options. It may be perverse, but it wasn't
being so in this case - it is YOUR news poster that is.

Do you know the 'standard' formats of Email addresses? Let me
explain. They typically take one of the following forms, with
variations and probably cases I have forgotten:

user@domain
Ignored commentary user@domain
user@domain (Ignored commentary)

Let's ignore the spaces around the '@', as they are more-or-less
irrelevant here. What trn did was to take the Email address that
YOU had supplied and YOU had asked to be used for replies, remove
the ignored commentary (often used for people's names) and use
that. Not just according to specification, but perfectly reasonable
in all senses.

If you don't want to expose your Email address, DON'T PUT IT IN
THE REPLY-TO FIELD. Doing so is a common error in quite a lot of
mail and news software - and the error is at YOUR end.

| And if you do that for people without even the spaces in their reply-to,
| you've just landed them loads more spam than they'd get otherwise. I'm
| sure they're all happy to get another dozen viagra, cialis, etc. emails
| a day.

Please don't blame other people for configuration errors in your
news posting software.

| Yes, I know that a few bots scan the headers, too, but they're not that
| many, and they're pretty stupid, as seen from the fact that a pal with
| his own domain got spam to a message-id "email" address. There's a lot
| more bots out there scanning message bodies, 'cos that's a piece of
| cake, on googlegroups.

Both are trivial, and both are widespread.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Guy King wrote:
Henriette Kress wrote:

I've had lots of fun eating ripe apples while they were still hanging
on to their trees ... not that I'd do that these days, nope, not me.
That? Nah, that must've been somebody else.

Trying to make it look like a really large wasp was responsible?

Nah, trying to make it look like an apple eaten all around on the tree.

'course, now that I've been doing that for years, peoples faces aren't
as watchworthy anymore, when they notice them.

--
Henriette Kress, AHG Helsinki, Finland
Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed

(Nick Maclaren) wrote:

Nick: I was happy to see an old acquaintance but am no longer, because
of the way you quote.

In article ,
Henriette Kress hetta @ spamcop.net wrote:

You do realize that spammers pick those ^ up? You also realize there's a
REASON people spamtrap their addresses, namely that they're sick and
tired of spam?

_You_ might not be sick of spam, but then, you might not have received
thousands of junk mail, hundreds MBs (yes) of spam and viruses a month.
There's a limit and I reached it a year or so ago.

'course, I used to have my email address out there for all and sundry
to admire, for years and years ... not anymore. That address is now
_completely_ useless and also completely ditched. Composted. Buried
deep. Forgotten, recycled, the letters reused for other electronic bits.

Henriette

--
Henriette Kress, AHG Helsinki, Finland
Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed

In article ,
Henriette Kress writes:
| (Nick Maclaren) wrote:
|
| Nick: I was happy to see an old acquaintance but am no longer, because
| of the way you quote.

I am afraid that you are under a serious delusion about how posting
(and spamming) works. See below for what YOU got wrong, and some
clues about how to fix it!

| In article ,
| Henriette Kress hetta @ spamcop.net wrote:
|
| You do realize that spammers pick those ^ up? You also realize there's a
| REASON people spamtrap their addresses, namely that they're sick and
| tired of spam?

Well, of course, but I also realise how many people fail to do it
properly - which does rather account for the way that it doesn't
work for them!

| _You_ might not be sick of spam, but then, you might not have received
| thousands of junk mail, hundreds MBs (yes) of spam and viruses a month.
| There's a limit and I reached it a year or so ago.

I usually receive dozens a day, and have reached hundreds.

| 'course, I used to have my email address out there for all and sundry
| to admire, for years and years ... not anymore. That address is now
| _completely_ useless and also completely ditched. Composted. Buried
| deep. Forgotten, recycled, the letters reused for other electronic bits.

I responded using one of my newsreaders' Followup facility, which
took your Email address intact from the message you had posted.
What you have missed is that postings are based on Email, and there
is an envelope (which is used for actual delivery etc.) outside the
header that you see. It used not to be like that under Unix, but I
shall omit the history lesson :-)

Anyway, that envelope is as usable by spambots as the header - it
is just an option in your newsreader not to show it by default. For
example, here is the default output from trn:

From: Henriette Kress
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening,uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Hedging

And here is the selected output when using the verbose option:

From: Henriette Kress
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening,uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Hedging
. . .
Reply-To: hetta @ spamcop.net (no blanks)
NNTP-Posting-Host: ua120d39.elisa.omakaista.fi

So, if you want to play the trick of hiding your address, you will
have to ensure that the Reply-To field is ALSO set to your mangled
address.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

The message
from Henriette Kress contains these words:
(Nick Maclaren) wrote:

Nick: I was happy to see an old acquaintance but am no longer, because
of the way you quote.

In article ,
Henriette Kress hetta @ spamcop.net wrote:

You do realize that spammers pick those ^ up? You also realize there's a
REASON people spamtrap their addresses, namely that they're sick and
tired of spam?

But spambots won't pick that up because of the spaces in it.

Most (if not all) short headers in replies quote the sender's address as
it appears in the 'From:' field. Post from a spamtrapped address, and
that's what shows in the short header.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

(Nick Maclaren) wrote:

And here is the selected output when using the verbose option:

From: Henriette Kress
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening,uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Hedging
. . .
Reply-To: hetta @ spamcop.net (no blanks)
NNTP-Posting-Host: ua120d39.elisa.omakaista.fi

So, if you want to play the trick of hiding your address, you will
have to ensure that the Reply-To field is ALSO set to your mangled
address.

Right. And you wrote:

In article ,
Henriette Kress hetta @ spamcop.net wrote:

So you pick the name from the From: field and the address from the
Reply-to: field, format the lot, and use that in your attribution line.

I still fail to see why you'd _bother_.

And if you do that for people without even the spaces in their reply-to,
you've just landed them loads more spam than they'd get otherwise. I'm
sure they're all happy to get another dozen viagra, cialis, etc. emails
a day.

Yes, I know that a few bots scan the headers, too, but they're not that
many, and they're pretty stupid, as seen from the fact that a pal with
his own domain got spam to a message-id "email" address. There's a lot
more bots out there scanning message bodies, 'cos that's a piece of
cake, on googlegroups.

Henriette

--
Henriette Kress, AHG Helsinki, Finland
Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:

I recommend unripe bananas for a really good bellyache :-)

You'll find a lot on uk.net.news.config

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

In article ,
Henriette Kress writes:
| (Nick Maclaren) wrote:
|
| And here is the selected output when using the verbose option:
|
| Reply-To: hetta @ spamcop.net (no blanks)
| NNTP-Posting-Host: ua120d39.elisa.omakaista.fi
|
| So, if you want to play the trick of hiding your address, you will
| have to ensure that the Reply-To field is ALSO set to your mangled
| address.
|
| Right. ...

Well, what about doing it, then?

| So you pick the name from the From: field and the address from the
| Reply-to: field, format the lot, and use that in your attribution line.
|
| I still fail to see why you'd _bother_.

As I said, I didn't. I used one of the most widespread newsreaders
around, with all default options. It may be perverse, but it wasn't
being so in this case - it is YOUR news poster that is.

Do you know the 'standard' formats of Email addresses? Let me
explain. They typically take one of the following forms, with
variations and probably cases I have forgotten:

user@domain
Ignored commentary user@domain
user@domain (Ignored commentary)

Let's ignore the spaces around the '@', as they are more-or-less
irrelevant here. What trn did was to take the Email address that
YOU had supplied and YOU had asked to be used for replies, remove
the ignored commentary (often used for people's names) and use
that. Not just according to specification, but perfectly reasonable
in all senses.

If you don't want to expose your Email address, DON'T PUT IT IN
THE REPLY-TO FIELD. Doing so is a common error in quite a lot of
mail and news software - and the error is at YOUR end.

| And if you do that for people without even the spaces in their reply-to,
| you've just landed them loads more spam than they'd get otherwise. I'm
| sure they're all happy to get another dozen viagra, cialis, etc. emails
| a day.

Please don't blame other people for configuration errors in your
news posting software.

| Yes, I know that a few bots scan the headers, too, but they're not that
| many, and they're pretty stupid, as seen from the fact that a pal with
| his own domain got spam to a message-id "email" address. There's a lot
| more bots out there scanning message bodies, 'cos that's a piece of
| cake, on googlegroups.

Both are trivial, and both are widespread.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.