On 22/4/05 11:37, in article , "Magwitch"
wrote:

snip

I sometimes wonder why people don't consider the _mental_ health risks they
impose on children, with their paranoia and hysterical phobias.

Try Googling and see how many children are hospitalised by hedgehog/fox poo
per annum, why don't you? MRSA is a much more serious threat, and more
prevalent in hospitals than back lawns.

Like someone said, "rake it up".


You're being pretty silly, as well as rather unnecessarily rude in an
oblique fashion. Judith has posted here on and off, for years and is not
only one of the more intelligent and helpful posters - not to say one of the
funniest - she is one of the least hysterical people I know. And I can
assure you that she almost certainly knows more than you do about
administration in hospitals which may be why she wants to know if something
is a potential health hazard.
--

Sacha
(remove the weeds for email)

In article , Magwitch writes

You are obviously not listening - I did not know what kind of poo it
was, it could well have been from the feral cats and posing a very real
threat to children and adults.

As for raking it up, your garden is obviously much smaller than mine, I
don't have the time to rake a few acres.

Now, unless you can actually give some advice on identifying animal poo,
don't bother making uninformed comments.

I sometimes wonder why people don't consider the _mental_ health risks they
impose on children, with their paranoia and hysterical phobias.

Try Googling and see how many children are hospitalised by hedgehog/fox poo
per annum, why don't you? MRSA is a much more serious threat, and more
prevalent in hospitals than back lawns.

Like someone said, "rake it up".


--
Judith Lea

In article ,
Janet Baraclough writes:
| The message
| from Magwitch contains these words:
|
| Try Googling and see how many children are hospitalised by hedgehog/fox poo
| per annum, why don't you?
|
| AFAIK, the statistics for toxocara in humans do not differentiate
| between which host the problem came from.
|
| http://www.provet.co.uk/health/disea...ocaracanis.htm
|
| gives a 35% to 55% incidence of toxocara in UK foxes.

A quick scan indicates that hedgehogs are not a significant carrier
of Toxocara species, but foxes, dogs and cats are.

| Since foxes are known to be toxocara (and hydatid, and salmonella) hosts
| and shed both worms and eggs in their pooh, there is some risk to
| children playing on heavily-poohed lawn; ...

Salmonella is good for you :-) Seriously, except for the very
young, very old and seriously ill, it is not a significant problem.
Please don't copy the hysterical tabloids (including some of the
medical journals).


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from Magwitch contains these words:

Try Googling and see how many children are hospitalised by hedgehog/fox
poo
per annum, why don't you?

AFAIK, the statistics for toxocara in humans do not differentiate
between which host the problem came from.


Is it even possible to determine how any given infestation actually
occurred, except to differentiate between canis and cati? As the OP has
speculated on the presence of both feral cats and foxes, it is pretty safe
to assume both t-canis and t-cati will be present in her garden, regardless
of the presence of visible poo on the lawn.

Fortunately, toxocariasis in humans is very rare, with approximately 2 cases
per million people reported per annum.

It takes two to three weeks for the faeces to become infectious, anyway, so
that's plenty of time to clear up a 'safe' area for the kids to roll around
in. If they roll in fox doings once, they'll probably never forget it, the
stench is memorable :-)

In article ,
Janet Baraclough wrote:
The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:

Salmonella is good for you :-) Seriously, except for the very
young, very old and seriously ill, it is not a significant problem.

Judith's grandson is very young, that is why I mentioned it.

It's still not really worth worrying about, except to avoid giving
actual babies food that has been hanging around for ages. There
just isn't any way that you can avoid it except by living inside,
as it is carried by birds as well as mammals. I don't know what
the window of sensitivity is, but I do know that it is very short.

I agree that not exposing babies to fox dung is a good idea, but
salmonella is NOT what I would be worried about.

Please don't copy the hysterical tabloids (including some of the
medical journals).

I didn't. Please don't put worms in my mouth.

Well, I didn't - or no more than you did :-) I was responding to
your grouping of toxocara, hydatid and salmonella, which encourages
the naive to believe that they are all of comparable severity.
Yes, many people believe the tabloids when they refer to the killer
bacteria (sic) E. coli :-(


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Judith Lea" wrote in message
...
In article , Magwitch writes

You are obviously not listening - I did not know what kind of poo it
was, it could well have been from the feral cats and posing a very real
threat to children and adults.
OMG yes. In fact because 'outside' is full or nasty germs I wouldn't let
anyone out there at all. It is far too dangerous. ;0)

As for raking it up, your garden is obviously much smaller than mine, I
don't have the time to rake a few acres.

You wouldn't need to. Surely the whole few acres isn't *covered* with it?
Can't you just scoop or rake the part where the children will be playing?

Now, unless you can actually give some advice on identifying animal poo,
don't bother making uninformed comments.

This is usenet I'm afraid. Everyone is allowed to make whatever comments
they feel inclined to.

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from Magwitch contains these words:

Try Googling and see how many children are hospitalised by hedgehog/fox
poo
per annum, why don't you?

AFAIK, the statistics for toxocara in humans do not differentiate
between which host the problem came from.

http://www.provet.co.uk/health/disea...ocaracanis.htm

gives a 35% to 55% incidence of toxocara in UK foxes.

Since foxes are known to be toxocara (and hydatid, and salmonella) hosts
and shed both worms and eggs in their pooh, there is some risk to
children playing on heavily-poohed lawn; just as there is to children
playing on grass fouled by dogs. Dog owners can reduce the risk by
worming the dog. That option is not available when wild foxes are
defecating extensively on a domestic lawn played on by a small child.
In light of her more recent post though it now seems that the poo is not
just on the lawn but covers several acres of her land. She might need to
section off a lawn for her child to roll about on and keep it free of all
kinds of things. Perhaps she needs to think about erecting some kind of roof
or canopy too as pigeons and other wild birds carry some rather unpleasant
diseases too including psittacosis and salmonella and surely they will be
pooing on the lawn too.

On 23/4/05 16:41, in article ,
"w.g.s.hamm" wrote:


"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from Magwitch contains these words:

Try Googling and see how many children are hospitalised by hedgehog/fox
poo
per annum, why don't you?

AFAIK, the statistics for toxocara in humans do not differentiate
between which host the problem came from.

http://www.provet.co.uk/health/disea...ocaracanis.htm

gives a 35% to 55% incidence of toxocara in UK foxes.

Since foxes are known to be toxocara (and hydatid, and salmonella) hosts
and shed both worms and eggs in their pooh, there is some risk to
children playing on heavily-poohed lawn; just as there is to children
playing on grass fouled by dogs. Dog owners can reduce the risk by
worming the dog. That option is not available when wild foxes are
defecating extensively on a domestic lawn played on by a small child.
In light of her more recent post though it now seems that the poo is not
just on the lawn but covers several acres of her land. She might need to
section off a lawn for her child to roll about on and keep it free of all
kinds of things. Perhaps she needs to think about erecting some kind of roof
or canopy too as pigeons and other wild birds carry some rather unpleasant
diseases too including psittacosis and salmonella and surely they will be
pooing on the lawn too.



What a truly idiotic post with regard to a polite enquiry by a polite
person. We can see how carefully you read it when we observe that you refer
to her grandchild as her child. I don't think being nutty about animals
qualifies you to comment on someone wishing to prevent a child from catching
some potentially nasty disease. All it was was an enquiry, not a suggestion
that the wildlife of England should be exterminated. Get a grip and a sense
of proportion for once.
--

Sacha
(remove the weeds for email)

"Emrys Davies" wrote in message
...
"gavin" wrote in message

Stuff deleted:-

I don't think that you will be able to stop foxes from using your
garden. They are very determined and soon get used to whatever you use
to discourage them.

Many years ago I dunked used teabags in an expensive liquid (about £8 a
tin, I think) which I was assured would dispel foxes, and placed them
around young heathers which they were digging up. I watched through my
bedroom window and saw the foxes approach cautiously and after a short
while they started playing games with the teabags.

Hedgehogs are to be encouraged and if it were not for their tiny and
inoffensive droppings you would not know that they had visited you. I
have been feeding them for many many years, but none have turned up so
far this season. Do not give them milk or fish based food.

We used to have regular visits from hedgehogs but have not seen any for some
time now.

--
alan

reply to alan(dot)holmes27(at)virgin(dot)net

Sacha muttered:

On 22/4/05 11:37, in article , "Magwitch"
wrote:

snip

I sometimes wonder why people don't consider the _mental_ health risks they
impose on children, with their paranoia and hysterical phobias.

Try Googling and see how many children are hospitalised by hedgehog/fox poo
per annum, why don't you? MRSA is a much more serious threat, and more
prevalent in hospitals than back lawns.

Like someone said, "rake it up".


You're being pretty silly, as well as rather unnecessarily rude in an
oblique fashion. Judith has posted here on and off, for years and is not
only one of the more intelligent and helpful posters - not to say one of the
funniest - she is one of the least hysterical people I know. And I can
assure you that she almost certainly knows more than you do about
administration in hospitals which may be why she wants to know if something
is a potential health hazard.

I don't think so. For the last 6 years I've worked on antibiotic resistance,
only this week a study published that showed that young children exposed to
multiple childhood infections have a 50% lower risk of leukaemia, because
their immune systems have been 'primed' to cope and are healthy.

If well-meaning, but misguided carers try to eliminate *every* instance of
what is perfectly ok in a natural habitat, they are storing up problems for
their kids. I repeat, give me an example of *one* child whose health has
been compromised by hedgehog excreta, please.

BAC muttered:


"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from Magwitch contains these words:

Try Googling and see how many children are hospitalised by hedgehog/fox
poo
per annum, why don't you?

AFAIK, the statistics for toxocara in humans do not differentiate
between which host the problem came from.


Is it even possible to determine how any given infestation actually
occurred, except to differentiate between canis and cati? As the OP has
speculated on the presence of both feral cats and foxes, it is pretty safe
to assume both t-canis and t-cati will be present in her garden, regardless
of the presence of visible poo on the lawn.

Not to mention that most soil has been through the gut of about 500,000
worms. People are encouraged on this group to chuck manure on everything
etc. etc. If they want to stay really hygienic perhaps they should live in a
tower-block on the 10nth floor and not go near a garden.

Fortunately, toxocariasis in humans is very rare, with approximately 2 cases
per million people reported per annum.

Quite.

It takes two to three weeks for the faeces to become infectious, anyway, so
that's plenty of time to clear up a 'safe' area for the kids to roll around
in. If they roll in fox doings once, they'll probably never forget it, the
stench is memorable :-)


Thank you. Our dog regularly rolls in it ‹ he thinks it makes him more
attractive. Believe me, it doesn't.

In article , Magwitch wrote:

Thank you. Our dog regularly rolls in it ‹ he thinks it makes him more
attractive. Believe me, it doesn't.

I would have thought that only a bitch would be qualified to judge
that!


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 24/4/05 1:30, in article , "Magwitch"
wrote:

Sacha muttered:

On 22/4/05 11:37, in article , "Magwitch"
wrote:

snip

I sometimes wonder why people don't consider the _mental_ health risks they
impose on children, with their paranoia and hysterical phobias.

Try Googling and see how many children are hospitalised by hedgehog/fox poo
per annum, why don't you? MRSA is a much more serious threat, and more
prevalent in hospitals than back lawns.

Like someone said, "rake it up".


You're being pretty silly, as well as rather unnecessarily rude in an
oblique fashion. Judith has posted here on and off, for years and is not
only one of the more intelligent and helpful posters - not to say one of the
funniest - she is one of the least hysterical people I know. And I can
assure you that she almost certainly knows more than you do about
administration in hospitals which may be why she wants to know if something
is a potential health hazard.

I don't think so. For the last 6 years I've worked on antibiotic resistance,
only this week a study published that showed that young children exposed to
multiple childhood infections have a 50% lower risk of leukaemia, because
their immune systems have been 'primed' to cope and are healthy.

If well-meaning, but misguided carers try to eliminate *every* instance of
what is perfectly ok in a natural habitat, they are storing up problems for
their kids. I repeat, give me an example of *one* child whose health has
been compromised by hedgehog excreta, please.


I am not arguing with you about the dangers of animal excreta. I am telling
you - *telling* you - that Judith asked for ID of animal excreta,
*precisely* so she could discover whether she should be worried or not!
If you're such a hotshot in the health industry, I would think you would at
least be able to read a question and unveil its meaning, properly. AND
perhaps you noticed that I said that Judith almost certainly knows more than
you do about administration in hospitals, not antibiotic resistance.
And you then broaden your 'argument' to suggest that Judith wants to impose
a mental health risk on her grandchild, which is not only ridiculous but
insulting. I am well aware that children's immune systems can be
compromised by over-zealous hygiene practices and I believe strongly that
children should not be coddled and wrapped in cotton wool. Nonetheless, I
don't know of one parent or grandparent of my acquaintance who would be
happy for a child in their care to come into the house with clothes or hands
or feet, or all three, smeared in any kind of animal excreta.
--

Sacha
(remove the weeds for email)

In article , Sacha
writes

I am not arguing with you about the dangers of animal excreta. I am telling
you - *telling* you - that Judith asked for ID of animal excreta,
*precisely* so she could discover whether she should be worried or not!

Unfortunately, Judith mentioned her worry only once she had received the
group's provisional id of hedgehog, so one can see why people can get
the wrong end of the stick, since it's hard to imagine hedgehogs
producing enough poo to be a serious problem.

--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

In article , Nick Maclaren
writes
In article , Magwitch wrote:

Thank you. Our dog regularly rolls in it ‹ he thinks it makes him more
attractive. Believe me, it doesn't.

I would have thought that only a bitch would be qualified to judge
that!

Depends who he thinks he's making himself attractive to!
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"