On 24/4/05 10:45, in article , "Kay"
wrote:

In article , Nick Maclaren
writes
In article , Magwitch wrote:

Thank you. Our dog regularly rolls in it Ð he thinks it makes him more
attractive. Believe me, it doesn't.

I would have thought that only a bitch would be qualified to judge
that!

Depends who he thinks he's making himself attractive to!

As far as I can see, to themselves will do. Our Jack Russells hurl
themselves onto it with delight and abandon. They look very dejected when
they're then marched to the nearest hose pipe or chucked into the shower!
--

Sacha
(remove the weeds for email)

Sacha muttered:

On 24/4/05 1:30, in article , "Magwitch"
wrote:

Sacha muttered:

On 22/4/05 11:37, in article , "Magwitch"
wrote:

snip

I sometimes wonder why people don't consider the _mental_ health risks they
impose on children, with their paranoia and hysterical phobias.

Try Googling and see how many children are hospitalised by hedgehog/fox poo
per annum, why don't you? MRSA is a much more serious threat, and more
prevalent in hospitals than back lawns.

Like someone said, "rake it up".


You're being pretty silly, as well as rather unnecessarily rude in an
oblique fashion. Judith has posted here on and off, for years and is not
only one of the more intelligent and helpful posters - not to say one of the
funniest - she is one of the least hysterical people I know. And I can
assure you that she almost certainly knows more than you do about
administration in hospitals which may be why she wants to know if something
is a potential health hazard.

I don't think so. For the last 6 years I've worked on antibiotic resistance,
only this week a study published that showed that young children exposed to
multiple childhood infections have a 50% lower risk of leukaemia, because
their immune systems have been 'primed' to cope and are healthy.

If well-meaning, but misguided carers try to eliminate *every* instance of
what is perfectly ok in a natural habitat, they are storing up problems for
their kids. I repeat, give me an example of *one* child whose health has
been compromised by hedgehog excreta, please.


I am not arguing with you about the dangers of animal excreta. I am telling
you - *telling* you - that Judith asked for ID of animal excreta,
*precisely* so she could discover whether she should be worried or not!
If you're such a hotshot in the health industry, I would think you would at
least be able to read a question and unveil its meaning, properly. AND
perhaps you noticed that I said that Judith almost certainly knows more than
you do about administration in hospitals, not antibiotic resistance.
And you then broaden your 'argument' to suggest that Judith wants to impose
a mental health risk on her grandchild, which is not only ridiculous but
insulting. I am well aware that children's immune systems can be
compromised by over-zealous hygiene practices and I believe strongly that
children should not be coddled and wrapped in cotton wool. Nonetheless, I
don't know of one parent or grandparent of my acquaintance who would be
happy for a child in their care to come into the house with clothes or hands
or feet, or all three, smeared in any kind of animal excreta.

Tsk tsk... I'll consider myself thoroughly told ‹ *told* ‹ off. I'll pass on
your thoughts to my nieces who seem to be permanently covered in animal
excreta of one kind or another (horses, dogs, chickens, ducks) and warn them
how dangerous it all is, if they'll listen...

Small point, we took our dog (a gentle Labrador) for a walk in the grounds
of a local stately home recently and not only were most of the kids dressed
in totally unsuitable clothes for a country walk (pink sandals and white
socks... in January), but they all seemed totally freaked out by the sight
of a dog.

I honestly cannot remember being that neurotic as a child, my parents would
have told ‹ *told* ‹ me not to be such a wuss.

Nick Maclaren muttered:

In article , Magwitch wrote:

Thank you. Our dog regularly rolls in it ‹ he thinks it makes him more
attractive. Believe me, it doesn't.

I would have thought that only a bitch would be qualified to judge
that!


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Up yours as well... ;-)

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
snip

Nonetheless, I
don't know of one parent or grandparent of my acquaintance who would be
happy for a child in their care to come into the house with clothes or
hands
or feet, or all three, smeared in any kind of animal excreta.

Quite so - good job the lady's lawn isn't favoured by Canada geese, she
wouldn't even SEE the fox dung if she did :-)

"Alan Holmes" wrote in message
...

"Emrys Davies" wrote in message
...
"gavin" wrote in message

Stuff deleted:-

I don't think that you will be able to stop foxes from using your
garden. They are very determined and soon get used to whatever you use
to discourage them.

Many years ago I dunked used teabags in an expensive liquid (about £8 a
tin, I think) which I was assured would dispel foxes, and placed them
around young heathers which they were digging up. I watched through my
bedroom window and saw the foxes approach cautiously and after a short
while they started playing games with the teabags.

Hedgehogs are to be encouraged and if it were not for their tiny and
inoffensive droppings you would not know that they had visited you. I
have been feeding them for many many years, but none have turned up so
far this season. Do not give them milk or fish based food.

We used to have regular visits from hedgehogs but have not seen any for
some
time now.


Hedgehogs get a brief mention in
http://www.jncc.gov.uk/pdf/pub05_ukm...Text_final.pdf
which attempts to chart mammal population trends in the UK and which says
that there seems to have been a long term decline in the hedgehog
population, particularly in the East and in riparian locations.

In article , Sacha
writes

Thanks to all for their useful advice and thanks to those who took
exception to the daft replies.

Consider the thread closed - I now know why I very rarely post - too
many nerds with too much time on their hands who contribute little or
nothing to urg.

I have now "plonked" 2 posters and I have killed the thread. However, I
am wiser as I now know how to identify poo which is no bad thing.

What a truly idiotic post with regard to a polite enquiry by a polite
person. We can see how carefully you read it when we observe that you refer
to her grandchild as her child. I don't think being nutty about animals
qualifies you to comment on someone wishing to prevent a child from catching
some potentially nasty disease. All it was was an enquiry, not a suggestion
that the wildlife of England should be exterminated. Get a grip and a sense
of proportion for once.

--
Judith Lea

Judith Lea muttered:

In article , Sacha
writes

Thanks to all for their useful advice and thanks to those who took
exception to the daft replies.

Consider the thread closed - I now know why I very rarely post - too
many nerds with too much time on their hands who contribute little or
nothing to urg.

I have now "plonked" 2 posters and I have killed the thread. However, I
am wiser as I now know how to identify poo which is no bad thing.

What a truly idiotic post with regard to a polite enquiry by a polite
person. We can see how carefully you read it when we observe that you refer
to her grandchild as her child. I don't think being nutty about animals
qualifies you to comment on someone wishing to prevent a child from catching
some potentially nasty disease. All it was was an enquiry, not a suggestion
that the wildlife of England should be exterminated. Get a grip and a sense
of proportion for once.

Shit happens... )

On 24/4/05 10:44, in article , "Kay"
wrote:

In article , Sacha
writes

I am not arguing with you about the dangers of animal excreta. I am telling
you - *telling* you - that Judith asked for ID of animal excreta,
*precisely* so she could discover whether she should be worried or not!

Unfortunately, Judith mentioned her worry only once she had received the
group's provisional id of hedgehog, so one can see why people can get
the wrong end of the stick, since it's hard to imagine hedgehogs
producing enough poo to be a serious problem.

Nothing Judith said warranted the reactions she received which suggested
that she should roof over the entire garden etc.
They were rude, insulting and sent without any knowledge whatsoever about
the poster, her garden or her circumstances. She could be IDing the
droppings of a couple of Percherons and she'd have merited better responses
than those.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

Sacha muttered:

On 24/4/05 10:44, in article , "Kay"
wrote:

In article , Sacha
writes

I am not arguing with you about the dangers of animal excreta. I am telling
you - *telling* you - that Judith asked for ID of animal excreta,
*precisely* so she could discover whether she should be worried or not!

Unfortunately, Judith mentioned her worry only once she had received the
group's provisional id of hedgehog, so one can see why people can get
the wrong end of the stick, since it's hard to imagine hedgehogs
producing enough poo to be a serious problem.

Nothing Judith said warranted the reactions she received which suggested
that she should roof over the entire garden etc.
They were rude, insulting and sent without any knowledge whatsoever about
the poster, her garden or her circumstances. She could be IDing the
droppings of a couple of Percherons and she'd have merited better responses
than those.

Oh go and have a hot bath, brandy and nice lie down... if I inadvertently
hit a tender spot by pointing out that MRSA is a more clear and present
danger to children than fox scat to a 'hospital administrator' then that is
no bad thing IMV.

In article ,
Kay writes:
|
| Unfortunately, Judith mentioned her worry only once she had received the
| group's provisional id of hedgehog, so one can see why people can get
| the wrong end of the stick, since it's hard to imagine hedgehogs
| producing enough poo to be a serious problem.

It's not the amount, but their diet and other habits. Foxes, dogs
and cats pick up toxocara from their prey, which then pick it up
from the faeces. And round it goes. Hedgehogs rarely eat
vertebrates.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article , Sacha
writes

Nothing Judith said warranted the reactions she received which suggested
that she should roof over the entire garden etc.

Hey, I didn't see that one! :-)

They were rude, insulting

It got heated, and, yes, rude, later on, on all viewpoints, but I didn't
think the *initial* responses were rude, and certainly not by the
standards of this newsgroup. There are polarised opinions on this ng,
between those who will go to any lengths to accommodate animal welfare,
and those who are not prepared to tolerate anything which impinges on
their view of a garden.

and sent without any knowledge whatsoever about
the poster, her garden or her circumstances.

Well, of course! This is usenet. People know about us only what we
choose to let them know, and so we have to expect them to respond to us
accordingly.

You and I know Judith as a reasonable and sensible person, but she
doesn't post here often, and, without context, trying to rid your
garden of a family of hedgehogs because of a visiting grandchild sounds
a little overconcerned. Of course, it turns out to be fox, a different
matter, but we didn't know that at the time.
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

Sacha muttered:

No, precisely, we didn't *know* that or indeed any answer, at the time but
that didn't stop the patronising "superior" rudeness Judith's innocent query
was subject to.

You did the same by telling *‹telling‹* (remember?) me, most rudely, that my
10 years of experience of clinical bacterial resistance was inferior to that
of a hospital administrator...

And ask yourself WHY so many people no longer post here.
WHY we have lost entirely, or almost entirely, some immensely valuable and
knowledgeable people. The way Judith was treated is certainly the reason
for some of them, I know for a fact.

People don't post because certain people like to think they are a
newsgroup's queen bees and resent hearing any other point of view than their
own.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

In article ,
Kay writes:
|
| Unfortunately, Judith mentioned her worry only once she had received
the
| group's provisional id of hedgehog, so one can see why people can get
| the wrong end of the stick, since it's hard to imagine hedgehogs
| producing enough poo to be a serious problem.

It's not the amount, but their diet and other habits. Foxes, dogs
and cats pick up toxocara from their prey, which then pick it up
from the faeces. And round it goes. Hedgehogs rarely eat
vertebrates.


IIRC, the OP speculated about getting rid of the suspected hedgehog family
when the group's provisional 'verdict' was hedgehog. So, if concern about
toxacara was her prime reason for seeking guidance as to the identity of the
'culprit', and she remained concerned when thinking it was hedgehog, it
isn't entirely surprising if some concluded advice regarding the levels of
risk might be helpful.

On 26/4/05 15:14, in article , "Magwitch"
wrote:

Sacha muttered:

No, precisely, we didn't *know* that or indeed any answer, at the time but
that didn't stop the patronising "superior" rudeness Judith's innocent query
was subject to.

You did the same by telling *‹telling‹* (remember?) me, most rudely, that my
10 years of experience of clinical bacterial resistance was inferior to that
of a hospital administrator...

No, I did not. But certainly one can see that your amour propre has been
severely dented by my failure to curtsey to it.

And ask yourself WHY so many people no longer post here.
WHY we have lost entirely, or almost entirely, some immensely valuable and
knowledgeable people. The way Judith was treated is certainly the reason
for some of them, I know for a fact.

People don't post because certain people like to think they are a
newsgroup's queen bees and resent hearing any other point of view than their
own.

The people I am thinking of don't post here because of people like yourself
who consider that you are so superior. You appear to believe that rudeness
and sarcasm are an acceptable way to communicate said superiority to the
rest of us unfortunate enough to read your words of wisdom. You are rude
and unacceptably so, IMO. And like Judith, I've had enough of you. You can
chunter on to yourself about how wonderful you are after 10 years messing
around with germs.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

This thread is starting to stink.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.