I've been posting here a little for a while, but I ought to do a proper
introduction, so...

I'm a student and, for the first time I'm living in a house that a) doesn't
have wall-to-wall grass or concrete or someone to maintain it and b) I don't
get chucked out of in June (bit annoying from a gardening point of view,
that). With much learnt from this group and not much help from the weather
the vegetable plot is in full swing and I'm trying to work out what else has
been left by previous occupants.

AFAICS the garden has once had gardening efforts applied given there were a
few self-seeded lettuces around, some things that look something like wild
carrots (they're feathery but have a big taproot but not really rounded like
a carrot) and a large patch of rhubarb. It's about 1m wide by 8m long at
the south east end of the garden so that it gets sun for a large proportion of
the day, but up against the shed on the SE side and a fence on the SW side.

Last year we moved in in July and it was heavily cropping: I don't think the
people who were here before us for 2 years touched it. So we were eating as
much rhubarb as we could and it was still going in October. I covered it
with maybe 1-2cm manure and come March it was peeping up again. As far as I
could see the woody bit of each plant was maybe 1ft across.

It's been growing vigourously since then except about three weeks ago there
was a storm in which what appeared to be icecubes fell from the sky - they
were solid clear ice, not white like hailstones, maybe 7mm across. Having
this pelted at it flattened the rhubarb quite considerably and it's looking
rather unhappy now, like it's been sat on. We haven't been eating very much
since then. There are lots of thin (1/2 inch) shoots at ground level, but
fewer thick shoots going upwards.

I pulled some of the broken stems yesterday (there were some with ants
living inside) and took about 8 more good ones to eat. So I'm wondering
what's the best thing to do: pull more so new growth comes through or thin
out to allow existing squashed ones to fatten up? Does it matter, from the
plant's point of view, that the shoots are flat against the ground with thin
stems since I assume they are still receiving sunlight OK?

Thanks
Theo

--
Theo Markettos
Clare Hall, Cambridge
CB3 9AL, UK http://www.markettos.org.uk/

"Theo Markettos" wrote in message
...
I've been posting here a little for a while, but I ought to do a proper
introduction, so...

I'm a student and, for the first time I'm living in a house that a)
doesn't
have wall-to-wall grass or concrete or someone to maintain it and b) I
don't
get chucked out of in June (bit annoying from a gardening point of view,
that). With much learnt from this group and not much help from the
weather
the vegetable plot is in full swing and I'm trying to work out what else
has
been left by previous occupants.

AFAICS the garden has once had gardening efforts applied given there were
a
few self-seeded lettuces around, some things that look something like wild
carrots (they're feathery but have a big taproot but not really rounded
like
a carrot) and a large patch of rhubarb. It's about 1m wide by 8m long at
the south east end of the garden so that it gets sun for a large
proportion of
the day, but up against the shed on the SE side and a fence on the SW
side.

Last year we moved in in July and it was heavily cropping: I don't think
the
people who were here before us for 2 years touched it. So we were eating
as
much rhubarb as we could and it was still going in October. I covered it
with maybe 1-2cm manure and come March it was peeping up again. As far as
I
could see the woody bit of each plant was maybe 1ft across.

It's been growing vigourously since then except about three weeks ago
there
was a storm in which what appeared to be icecubes fell from the sky - they
were solid clear ice, not white like hailstones, maybe 7mm across. Having
this pelted at it flattened the rhubarb quite considerably and it's
looking
rather unhappy now, like it's been sat on. We haven't been eating very
much
since then. There are lots of thin (1/2 inch) shoots at ground level, but
fewer thick shoots going upwards.

I pulled some of the broken stems yesterday (there were some with ants
living inside) and took about 8 more good ones to eat. So I'm wondering
what's the best thing to do: pull more so new growth comes through or thin
out to allow existing squashed ones to fatten up? Does it matter, from
the
plant's point of view, that the shoots are flat against the ground with
thin
stems since I assume they are still receiving sunlight OK?


It should be. Rhubarb is generally as tough as old boots.I'm surprised that
you got stems off it until October. The perceived wisdom is that you should
crop rhubarb until you start cropping gooseberries, which we started here in
Dorset a week ago, although I have to admit to a bit of overlapping. All
right then, quite a lot. My own view is that if it's happy to keep
producing, I'm happy to keep eating. When it dies down, I chuck loads of
manure on it, and ignore it until next year.

Steve
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/steveandmaggiesplot

In article , shazzbat
writes

It should be. Rhubarb is generally as tough as old boots.I'm surprised that
you got stems off it until October. The perceived wisdom is that you should
crop rhubarb until you start cropping gooseberries, which we started here in
Dorset a week ago, although I have to admit to a bit of overlapping. All
right then, quite a lot. My own view is that if it's happy to keep
producing, I'm happy to keep eating. When it dies down, I chuck loads of
manure on it, and ignore it until next year.

there are two reasons to stop cropping. One is to allow the plant to use
its leaves to provide food for it to store to give a big crop the
following year. So I'm wondering if the thin stems are nothing to do
with the storm and more to do with too much cutting last year

The second reason is that the oxalic acid levels are supposed to
increase later in the year, so after about June it's not all that good
for you.
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

Theo Markettos wrote:
:: I've been posting here a little for a while, but I ought to do a
:: proper introduction, so...
::
:: I'm a student and, for the first time I'm living in a house that
:: a) doesn't have wall-to-wall grass or concrete or someone to
:: maintain it and b) I don't get chucked out of in June (bit
:: annoying from a gardening point of view, that). With much learnt
:: from this group and not much help from the weather the vegetable
:: plot is in full swing and I'm trying to work out what else has
:: been left by previous occupants.
::
:: AFAICS the garden has once had gardening efforts applied given
:: there were a few self-seeded lettuces around, some things that
:: look something like wild carrots (they're feathery but have a big
:: taproot but not really rounded like a carrot) and a large patch of
:: rhubarb. It's about 1m wide by 8m long at
:: the south east end of the garden so that it gets sun for a large
:: proportion of the day, but up against the shed on the SE side and
:: a fence on the SW side.
::
:: Last year we moved in in July and it was heavily cropping: I don't
:: think the people who were here before us for 2 years touched it.
:: So we were eating as much rhubarb as we could and it was still
:: going in October. I covered it with maybe 1-2cm manure and come
:: March it was peeping up again. As far as I could see the woody
:: bit of each plant was maybe 1ft across.
::
:: It's been growing vigourously since then except about three weeks
:: ago there was a storm in which what appeared to be icecubes fell
:: from the sky - they were solid clear ice, not white like
:: hailstones, maybe 7mm across. Having this pelted at it flattened
:: the rhubarb quite considerably and it's looking rather unhappy
:: now, like it's been sat on. We haven't been eating very much
:: since then. There are lots of thin (1/2 inch) shoots at ground
:: level, but fewer thick shoots going upwards.
::
:: I pulled some of the broken stems yesterday (there were some with
:: ants
:: living inside) and took about 8 more good ones to eat. So I'm
:: wondering what's the best thing to do: pull more so new growth
:: comes through or thin out to allow existing squashed ones to
:: fatten up? Does it matter, from the plant's point of view, that
:: the shoots are flat against the ground with thin stems since I
:: assume they are still receiving sunlight OK?

My rhubarb is very prolific although we eat very little of it[1], it's
fairly sheltered having walls to the North and West of it so it can be
picked as early as March, I have never given it any kind of fertiliser,
watered it or anything else and it just keeps getting bigger, the one plant
must be 2 metres across, it invades the path and I keep chopping about 15 -
20 sticks and leaves off but I have to do this about every month from late
April through to about September.

Only if we have apple & rhubarb crumble (with the obligatory custard of
course), which is about five or six times per year!

--
If God had intended us to drink beer, He would have given us stomachs.

Kay wrote in
:

there are two reasons to stop cropping. One is to allow the plant to use
its leaves to provide food for it to store to give a big crop the
following year. So I'm wondering if the thin stems are nothing to do
with the storm and more to do with too much cutting last year



That was my guess, specially if it hasn't been fed at all this year.

I tend to pull and compost weedy thin stems, but I also take them as a
warning that the plant is hungry and apply loads of compost & chicken poo.
Haven't seen any for a couple of years now, even in my thin stony soil!

Victoria
--
gardening on a north-facing hill
in South-East Cornwall
--

The message
from Theo Markettos contains these words:

Last year we moved in in July and it was heavily cropping: I don't think the
people who were here before us for 2 years touched it. So we were eating as
much rhubarb as we could and it was still going in October. I covered it
with maybe 1-2cm manure and come March it was peeping up again. As far as I
could see the woody bit of each plant was maybe 1ft across.

You shouldn't pull any after mid-June.

It's been growing vigourously since then except about three weeks ago there
was a storm in which what appeared to be icecubes fell from the sky - they
were solid clear ice, not white like hailstones, maybe 7mm across. Having
this pelted at it flattened the rhubarb quite considerably and it's looking
rather unhappy now, like it's been sat on. We haven't been eating very much
since then. There are lots of thin (1/2 inch) shoots at ground level, but
fewer thick shoots going upwards.

That's because you overcropped it last year. It might never recover.
Unfortunately, the remedy (digging up a crown in the autumn,
splitting-off the outside new growth, and preparing a bed and planting
only the outside bits) leaves you without rhubarb for a year - unless
you can dig one crown and make a new bed.

Of course, a year is a long time in student accommodation.

I pulled some of the broken stems yesterday (there were some with ants
living inside) and took about 8 more good ones to eat. So I'm wondering
what's the best thing to do: pull more so new growth comes through or thin
out to allow existing squashed ones to fatten up? Does it matter, from the
plant's point of view, that the shoots are flat against the ground with thin
stems since I assume they are still receiving sunlight OK?

Leave the damaged stuff. Pull new growth when the leaves have
uncrinkled, but before they go dull and leathery. If you have a
pressure-cooker, put freshly-cooked rhubarb in screwtop jars in the
pressure-cooker, and simmer for a while.

Replace lids on jars and leave them for half a minute (for the space to
fill with steam and expel the air), tighten lids.

Keep in a dark place, and the rhubarb will keep indefinitely.

But don't pull any after mid June!

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

Victoria Clare wrote:
That was my guess, specially if it hasn't been fed at all this year.

What do you mean by feeding? Liquid or solid? How do you apply it when
it's in leaf? I probably didn't put enough manure on it over the winter,
but am wondering how to feed without submerging the leaves.

I don't think there was much more pulling last year than would be expected
in a season: AFAICS it hadn't been pulled at all before August so unless I
was disturbing something by pulling too late I don't think it was
overpulled.

I tend to pull and compost weedy thin stems, but I also take them as a
warning that the plant is hungry and apply loads of compost & chicken poo.
Haven't seen any for a couple of years now, even in my thin stony soil!

I think the reason ours has weedy stems is that because it was flattened
they had to grow further to get to the light (all the leaves have been
compressed together). Some of the leaves are yellow and ragged where they
don't get enough light. The central stems are still strong, but it's the
ones around the edges that have been flattened which I'm wondering what to
do with.

Thanks
Theo

Jaques d'Alltrades wrote:
The message
from Theo Markettos contains
these words:

Last year we moved in in July and it was heavily cropping: I don't
think the people who were here before us for 2 years touched it.
So
we were eating as much rhubarb as we could and it was still going
in
October. I covered it with maybe 1-2cm manure and come March it
was
peeping up again. As far as I could see the woody bit of each
plant
was maybe 1ft across.

You shouldn't pull any after mid-June.

It's been growing vigourously since then except about three weeks
ago there was a storm in which what appeared to be icecubes fell
from the sky - they were solid clear ice, not white like
hailstones,
maybe 7mm across. Having this pelted at it flattened the rhubarb
quite considerably and it's looking rather unhappy now, like it's
been sat on. We haven't been eating very much since then. There
are lots of thin (1/2 inch) shoots at ground level, but fewer
thick
shoots going upwards.

That's because you overcropped it last year. It might never
recover.
Unfortunately, the remedy (digging up a crown in the autumn,
splitting-off the outside new growth, and preparing a bed and
planting
only the outside bits) leaves you without rhubarb for a year -
unless
you can dig one crown and make a new bed.

Of course, a year is a long time in student accommodation.

I pulled some of the broken stems yesterday (there were some with
ants living inside) and took about 8 more good ones to eat. So
I'm
wondering what's the best thing to do: pull more so new growth
comes
through or thin out to allow existing squashed ones to fatten up?
Does it matter, from the plant's point of view, that the shoots
are
flat against the ground with thin stems since I assume they are
still receiving sunlight OK?

Leave the damaged stuff. Pull new growth when the leaves have
uncrinkled, but before they go dull and leathery. If you have a
pressure-cooker, put freshly-cooked rhubarb in screwtop jars in the
pressure-cooker, and simmer for a while.

Replace lids on jars and leave them for half a minute (for the
space
to
fill with steam and expel the air), tighten lids.

Keep in a dark place, and the rhubarb will keep indefinitely.

But don't pull any after mid June!

I wouldn't recommend anybody living the student lifestyle to indulge
in sugar-free preserving like that. Yes, you can do it, particularly,
I imagine, with something as acid as rhubarb; but I'd hesitate to
take responsibility for somebody else's skills. Or is rhubarb indeed
so acid as to be a special case?

--
Mike.

The message
from Theo Markettos contains these words:

I think the reason ours has weedy stems is that because it was flattened
they had to grow further to get to the light (all the leaves have been
compressed together). Some of the leaves are yellow and ragged where they
don't get enough light. The central stems are still strong, but it's the
ones around the edges that have been flattened which I'm wondering what to
do with.

I've been pulling my rhubarb quite heavily, and new stems coming up are
still nearly as thick as tubes of tomato purée.

You can see a couple of pretty basic pics of it at:
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/roobarb1.jpg and
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/roobarb2.jpg

Those were taken was at the end of last year - its first year, a
side-shoot from a crown of Timperley Early which was between the size of
a large carrot and a small parsnip.

With rhubarb, feeding is half the answer, The other three halves are
watering it.

For now, any general purpose liquid feed will do: mix it as per the
instructions on the container, and give each crown at least two gallons
of it, distributed *ROUND* it. Repeat a couple more times during the
year.

When the crowns die back in the autumn, you can pile all sorts of stuff
round them: wood ash, compost, horse/cow/pig manure (and it doesn't have
to be rotted, so long as you don't cover the crown with it.), bonemeal,
any old stock which has gone off, etc. Careful with chicken manu it's
best to compost that with stuff like leaves and grass-cuttings first.

Stop feeding with this sort of stuff around January. I generally
continue to give mine the washing-up water, especially if it's a bit
soupy. (Never put water containing washing powders such as Ariel,
Persil, Daz etc - they contain borax.)

Living alone as I do, I tend to allow a plastic bowl to fill with items
to wash up before doing the job - saves hot water, is my excuse. So, the
soup^H^H^H^water afterwards is very acceptable to rhubarb...

I reckon to kive my one crown at least a gallon of water a day, and in
hot dry weather, four gallons.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.

The message
from "Mike Lyle" contains these words:

I wouldn't recommend anybody living the student lifestyle to indulge
in sugar-free preserving like that. Yes, you can do it, particularly,
I imagine, with something as acid as rhubarb; but I'd hesitate to
take responsibility for somebody else's skills. Or is rhubarb indeed
so acid as to be a special case?

I've never had any problems with rhubarb. Of course, you can always add
sugar, but the pressure-cooking raises the temperature significantly
above 100° C, and as long as you expel the air with steam (the jars will
continue to simmer when you've removed the lid of the cooker) you're
left with a pretty good vacuum in the space at the top of the jar.

The only unsweetened fruit I've had trouble with is black nightshade,
and I lost the lot last year. This year I shall add lots of sugar...

For anyone who unforgets our thread on black nightshade last year, the
golden variety I found was identified by Kew as red nightshade. I don't
know why it's called 'red' because it's the colour of a golden tomato,
but translucent. It has a slightly nicer flavour than the black
variety...

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

Jaques d'Alltrades wrote:
For now, any general purpose liquid feed will do: mix it as per the
instructions on the container, and give each crown at least two gallons
of it, distributed *ROUND* it. Repeat a couple more times during the
year.

Aha, thanks.

Stop feeding with this sort of stuff around January. I generally
continue to give mine the washing-up water, especially if it's a bit
soupy. (Never put water containing washing powders such as Ariel,
Persil, Daz etc - they contain borax.)

I've wondered about that - whether it was a particularly good idea to put
(dilute) washing up liquid on veg. I suppose I could switch back to the
Ecover harms-nothing-including-dirt brand. Though now I've done a bit of
research it seems they don't have significant toxicity:
http://www.medtox.org/info/pdq/npisv1i3.pdf

But presumably the phosphate in the liquid act as fertiliser from the
rhubarb :-)

Theo

Jaques d'Alltrades wrote:
For now, any general purpose liquid feed will do: mix it as per the
instructions on the container, and give each crown at least two gallons
of it, distributed *ROUND* it. Repeat a couple more times during the
year.

Aha, thanks.

Stop feeding with this sort of stuff around January. I generally
continue to give mine the washing-up water, especially if it's a bit
soupy. (Never put water containing washing powders such as Ariel,
Persil, Daz etc - they contain borax.)

I've wondered about that - whether it was a particularly good idea to put
(dilute) washing up liquid on veg. I suppose I could switch back to the
Ecover harms-nothing-including-dirt brand. Though now I've done a bit of
research it seems they don't have significant toxicity:
http://www.medtox.org/info/pdq/npisv1i3.pdf (surprisingly, the National
Poisons Information Service newsletters are quite an interesting read in
general)

But presumably the phosphate in the liquid act as fertiliser from the
rhubarb :-)

Theo