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#16
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Aphids on my roses, time to wage war
Cheers for your feedback Len, I never would've thought about ants in regards
to this matter of aphids on roses but in a way it makes sense and seems to offer a weakpoint that can be exploited - im all for natural biowarfare |
#17
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Aphids on my roses, time to wage war
"gardenlen" wrote in message
sorry farm1, you maybe a bit off the mark there, ants not only have a symbiotic relationship with sacle insects but also with mealy bugs and aphids pretty much any thript. and aphids do secrete a sugary substance that the ants use in their food chain. Well I can only say that I have never seen an ant near the aphids on my roses. And my garden has multiple varieties of ants. Perhaps the wrens clear the aphids before the ants have a chance to find the aphids. the aphid is flightless and can't crawl over the ground so the only way it gets around is by being carried. Wrong Len. Aphids do grow wings. See http://www.princeton.edu/~dstern/AphidResearch.htm and http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-apc051805.php |
#18
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Aphids on my roses, time to wage war
"Dave -Turner" wrote in message
... So if i destroy the ants nests at the bases of my roses bushes that would have a significant effect on the aphid populations (by allowing other predatory insects in that the ants wouldve otherwise kept away) ? Probably not. All gardens have ants of lots of varieties. You need to do something about the aphids. |
#19
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Aphids on my roses, time to wage war
"gardenlen" wrote in message
that is how it has worked for me, aslo i don't think the aphids last long without their farmers. Not true Len. There are many people who have aphids and never have ants. The garden books all talk about aphids but NEVER mention getting rid of ants as a cure for getting rid of aphids. In my own garden I have never, ever seen an ant on my rose bushes but every spring I get aphids. The birds deal with them. once the ants have gone simply hose off the aphids with a strong spray of water if you use an atomiser bottle add a bit of detergent. moving the ants on is the lynch pin Len that makes no sense. Ants aren't the problem only (according to you) a consequence. Aphids are the problem. If you hose a rose bush with both aphids and ants on it and can get enough pressure to blow off the aphids then you would also blow off the ants. Aphids have their snout buried in the bark of the rose. Ants do not have the same sort of grip as the aphids. The only problem with blowing off the aphids is that they will come back as they will not all be removed and they breed up fast. Killing the ants will not control the aphids. |
#20
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Aphids on my roses, time to wage war
Dave -Turner wrote:
So if i destroy the ants nests at the bases of my roses bushes that would have a significant effect on the aphid populations (by allowing other predatory insects in that the ants wouldve otherwise kept away) ? Do not use poisons to do this as they could also kill your wanted predatory insects {:-). When you remove the ants, you might also find other insects now start attacking the rose bushes because the ants also fed on them {:-) I just settle for culling the aphids with a strong hose spray each time I water, or splashing/spraying them with soapy water (left over windscreen wash water). |
#21
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Aphids on my roses, time to wage war
well i guess farm1 you can believe the book which mainly only deal
with chemicals to control things and never look for the root cause. but i have had ants and aphids together many times as have many other gardeners. i am on many other forums where there are horticulturists helping people and they give the same advice that i have. On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 14:06:14 +1000, "Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote: snipped With peace and brightest of blessings, len -- "Be Content With What You Have And May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In A World That You May Not Understand." http://www.gardenlen.com |
#22
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Aphids on my roses, time to wage war
"gardenlen" wrote in message ... well i guess farm1 you can believe the book which mainly only deal with chemicals to control things and never look for the root cause. but i have had ants and aphids together many times as have many other gardeners. I get heaps of aphids on my roses, and even more on my nasturtiums underneath. So I've given up with the nasturtiums - too hard to keep free of aphids. I've always had ants around the area as well, and I knew they farmed the aphids, but it never occurred to me to remove the ants. I'll try that this year thanks. Jen |
#23
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Aphids on my roses, time to wage war
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message ... "gardenlen" wrote in message that is how it has worked for me, aslo i don't think the aphids last long without their farmers. Len that makes no sense. Ants aren't the problem only (according to you) a consequence. Aphids are the problem. If you hose a rose bush with both aphids and ants on it and can get enough pressure to blow off the aphids then you would also blow off the ants. Aphids have their snout buried in the bark of the rose. Ants do not have the same sort of grip as the aphids. The only problem with blowing off the aphids is that they will come back as they will not all be removed and they breed up fast. Killing the ants will not control the aphids. But the ants help the aphids! If you get rid of the ants at least they won't have their helpers and they'll be easier to control. Sounds logical to me. Jen |
#24
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Aphids on my roses, time to wage war
that's about the best you can do jen,
i as a rule only recommend ations that i have done myself, not into plagerising passages out of books. and too many times over the years the question has been asked by gardeners who have tried every thing except flame throwers and the aphids keep coming back, yup because as quick as you spray them the ants bring new ones back. get rid of the ants and then hose the aphids away when i've had them this has worked, i got roses in pots here got no ants in the pots and got no aphids. On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 08:41:22 GMT, "Jen" wrote: snipped With peace and brightest of blessings, len -- "Be Content With What You Have And May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In A World That You May Not Understand." http://www.gardenlen.com |
#25
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Aphids on my roses, time to wage war
Speaking of mongrel ants who bring nasties to things (like trees), how can
you slaughter large numbers of them? I have a larger problem, with ants and sticky stuff and trees/bushes slowly struggling against them. -- ant Don't try to email me; I'm borrowing the spammer du jour's addy |
#26
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Aphids on my roses, time to wage war
"gardenlen" wrote in message
well i guess farm1 you can believe the book which mainly only deal with chemicals to control things and never look for the root cause. I didn't mention any book that called for chemicals. You are making an incorrect assumption but then you've made a number of incorrect assumtions in this discussion. You have also claimed (and presumably believe) that aphids are flighless and must be carried. Rose aphids certainly do have wings at soem stage of the season so I assume that they can fly. You have also written of ants farming "those thript type bugs". Aphids and thrips are 2 different insects. You also say that you have "observed ants harvesting aphids not only on roses but on other plants as well". Ants don't "harvest" aphids but they may eat the honeydew. Rose aphids don't live on other plants except perhaps pyracantha. Ants are not the cause of aphids. Aphids may result in ants being on the roses to get the exudate from the aphids as you describe, BUT without the aphids being there in the first place, they wouldn't be on the roses. You said yourself that ants do NOT damage or eat the roses so destroying the ants is only a secondary consideration. If you get rid of the aphids then the ants won't be on the roses because they don't eat the rose. but i have had ants and aphids together many times as have many other gardeners. You assume that all aphids are the same. They arent' there are 4,000+varieties of aphids. And Len, not so long ago you wrote: ""gardenlen" wrote in message g'day jen, i'm no rose grower, so probably can't help too much here, but the new home we bought had some roses in the garden, so in preperation for pulling the garden out i just cut them all back to almost ground level, and those plants loved it they are a mass of growth and healthy looking plants not the spindly yukky looking things that uninspired me even more about the plant. i know you are supposed to thin them out and prune them to an open vase shape, but hey without any water these plants look great. the funny bit i reckon they may even put on their best show of flowers next season. oh i'm even taking them out of the garden and potting them and they haven't looked back, treat 'em rough i say they'll love it. You admit that you aren't a rose grower. I am. I planted my first rose 35 years ago. I also stopped coutning when I got to 108 roses in my garden. Since I stopped counting (and there are more than 108 roses in my garden) I have planted more roses. I also have seen pics of your last 2 gardens and looked at the new pics of your current place. Not a rose bush in sight. I have aphids each year and I DON'T have ants on my roses and never have had ants on my roses. My aphids disappear as the biological controls work i am on many other forums where there are horticulturists helping people and they give the same advice that i have. They may say that if you get rid of the aphids then you will get rid of the ants on your roses. |
#27
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Aphids on my roses, time to wage war
"Jen" wrote in message
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message "gardenlen" wrote in message that is how it has worked for me, aslo i don't think the aphids last long without their farmers. Len that makes no sense. Ants aren't the problem only (according to you) a consequence. Aphids are the problem. If you hose a rose bush with both aphids and ants on it and can get enough pressure to blow off the aphids then you would also blow off the ants. Aphids have their snout buried in the bark of the rose. Ants do not have the same sort of grip as the aphids. The only problem with blowing off the aphids is that they will come back as they will not all be removed and they breed up fast. Killing the ants will not control the aphids. But the ants help the aphids! If you get rid of the ants at least they won't have their helpers and they'll be easier to control. Sounds logical to me. Well think about it a bit more and try reading what Len wrote. He wrote "i don't think the aphids last long without their farmers". Aphids will exist quite happily without ants. Mine do till the birds kick in and start eating the aphids. You have introduced a new thought over and above what Len said in that you believe that you will control the aphids "easier" without the ants. That may or may not be so. If you don't have birds in your garden or ladybirds/lacewings etc and you have to rely on chemicals then nuking the ants before nuking the aphids MAY make it easier to control them, but that is NOT what Len said. Len thinks that aphids won't survive without ants. I went through all my rose books today and not one of them mentions such a situation. All mention aphids but not one mentions that aphids must be farmed by ants in order to survive. |
#28
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Aphids on my roses, time to wage war
"Jen" wrote in message
"gardenlen" wrote in message well i guess farm1 you can believe the book which mainly only deal with chemicals to control things and never look for the root cause. but i have had ants and aphids together many times as have many other gardeners. I get heaps of aphids on my roses, and even more on my nasturtiums underneath. So I've given up with the nasturtiums - too hard to keep free of aphids. But which of the 4,000+ species of aphids do you have on your nasturtiums? You probably have the rose aphid on your roses but on your nasturtiums.................? |
#29
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Aphids on my roses, time to wage war
"ant" wrote in message
Speaking of mongrel ants who bring nasties to things (like trees), how can you slaughter large numbers of them? I have a larger problem, with ants and sticky stuff and trees/bushes slowly struggling against them. As Len (rightly) mentioned, the ants come for the sticky stuff. There will be some sort of bug on your trees which is causing the sticky exudate. What sort of trees and do they have sooty mould? Sooty mould looks just like black soot. |
#30
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Aphids on my roses, time to wage war
Farm1 wrote:
Ants don't "harvest" aphids but they may eat the honeydew. Rose aphids don't live on other plants except perhaps pyracantha. That's interesting, I didn't know that. I grow Basil inside, and sometimes end up with horrible aphid infestations on it, nasty green ones. I always assumed the sneaky buggers were coming up from the roses. -- ant Don't try to email me; I'm borrowing the spammer du jour's addy |
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