"Trish Brown" wrote in message
FarmI wrote:

I'm not a retired teacher but I too get the collywobbles at some of the
more blatant abuses we see. "To" for "too" drives me crackers and
sometimes one even sees "two" for one of the others. The American habit
of writing/saying "tell someone who could care less" simply astounds me.
What about 'I'm going out. Do you want to come with?'

haven't come across that one, but I doknow what my reaction to that would be
:-))

Additionally, what about 'prolly' for 'probably' and 'congradulations' for
'congratulations' and 'walla' for 'voilà'?

And 'ass' for 'arse' - I tend to ask why they are into donkey abuse.

My absolute favourite (NOT) is when people add an apostrophe *every* time
a plural is required. Hence, we get piano's, dog's, mice' and womens's!!!
Oh, and 1990's instead of 1990s.

Supermarkets seem to be good at that violation.

I can feel my soapbox rising up beneath me...

This is why spelling, grammar and punctuation matter. If done correctly,
there can be no ambiguity or misunderstanding of what one is trying to
say. Look at the poster from earlier in the week (forget his name - the
bloke who was using a lot of phone-text forms - you know the one?) His
writing was barely understandable. Of course, *he* knew perfectly well
what he was trying to say, but few others did: we could only give educated
guesses at his exact meaning.

I think it's *grand* that grammar and punctuation are slowly being
reintroduced in schools! Both my parents left school at age fifteen, yet
both were excellent spellers and writers. Today's kids are every bit as
smart as that older generation and they *can* learn to spell well.

Our daughter has always been able to spell well but her firiend whose
parents are both teachers has always struggled. I do think that some people
are more inclined to be good spellers than others although have absolutely
no proof to support that statement, just observation.

Did you catch the interesting show in the TV tonight about intelligence
testing? It was called "the Battle of the Brains". There was one
interesting snippet in that show. In Scotland, they found IQ tests done
decades ago by a large number of 11 year olds. They had tracked down many
of them (now in their late 70s/early 80s) and ran them through the same
test. They found that on average, their IQs had gone up 10 points.

I've always said that we (should) learn and continue to develop all through
life and I wouldn't mind betting that your parents did just that even if
they left school with a good education in just the basic 3Rs.

I think it's interesting to note that Latin names for plants are easily
understood by most of us and leave no doubt as to a plant's identity when
various common names might be in use...

:-)) The trouble with Latin names, is that when I use them and I tend to do
so a lot, I always seem to be accused of being a snob or a know it all. I
used to explain to people that the more interested one in plants and
gardening, the more likely one is to seek out the sort of publications that
use botanical names and that reading such documents leads to using the
correct names. That explantion doesn't seem to wash with many people though
so I don't bother doing that so much these days. I just think 'Idiot!' to
myself. I'm getting old and intolerant.

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
...
"Trish Brown" wrote in message
FarmI wrote:

:-)) The trouble with Latin names, is that when I use them and I tend to
do so a lot, I always seem to be accused of being a snob or a know it all.
I used to explain to people that the more interested one in plants and
gardening, the more likely one is to seek out the sort of publications
that use botanical names and that reading such documents leads to using
the correct names. That explantion doesn't seem to wash with many people
though so I don't bother doing that so much these days. I just think
'Idiot!' to myself. I'm getting old and intolerant.


Not only with Latin names but, even when you use the proper names for a car
for example:

I own a Ford, would not bring a great response
yet, I own a 1969 Ford Mustang 427 Super Cobra Jet fastback, would bring a
huge response from the people who know, that the car I have is a special
model identified by its proper name.

I could be accused of being a snob, but I tend to believe that lucky would
be the more appropriate word.
However, if you use the proper Latin name for a plant, doesn't to me show
snobbery, but shows that you are intelligent enough to know your plants and
only passing on the information to others.

I went to a nursery with a photo of a plant I wanted to identify and was
given a Latin name, which he wrote down, so I looked it up and found it
wasn't what he said it was, so I posted a photo on a newsgroup and very
helpful people came up with the correct Latin name and the English name for
it
So, it pays to know the Latin name as well as the English name for any plant

"Blackadder XXIV" wrote in message
u...
"0tterbot" wrote in message
...
everyone else got over the "yellow peril" idea decades ago.
kylie

No Kylie, its not paranoia. Its just a rational suggestion. I mean, whose
going to stop them? The Indonesians walked into East Timor in the 1970s.
And no one stopped them. The only reason they got pushed out - was because
of their economic and political problems


Damn, and here I was thinking that Kylie was talking about the Yellow Peril
in Melbourne years ago.


But give them enough time, and they will have the numbers to not just walk
in, but stay and create a nation of their own. Its just demographics.

Sure you could put a few thousand in detention. But you can' stop 1% of
Indonesia from coming over. Right now, they're population is at 200
million. In 30 years time, apparently it will reach 278 million. If you
were an Indonesian, it would make sense to come over to Australia by hook
or by crook. It'd be a much better life for them.

http://www.iiasa.ac.at/Research/LUC/...gkh1/chap1.htm


The Indonesians are already here and with little Johnny giving them $1
billion for flood relief from the tsunami tells me that teh Govco are
bending over backwards to appease them

Your reference to 1970 and East Timor reminds me that Papua used to be be
called Dutch New Guinea, but is now known as Papua Indonesia
when did this happen?

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
news:478a05c9$0$30842$5a62ac22@per-qv1-

I think in the past, we had a culture of self-education. People generally
yearned to better educate themselves, to learn to be more civil and genteel.
People generally had a sense of personal honor and people kept to their
word. Unfortunately, this honor system kept on getting abused.

Nowadays, we have a culture based on self-gratification and hedonism. Watch
MTV for awhile and you'll find out.

"Blackadder XXIV" wrote in message
...
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
news:478a05c9$0$30842$5a62ac22@per-qv1-

I think in the past, we had a culture of self-education. People generally
yearned to better educate themselves, to learn to be more civil and
genteel. People generally had a sense of personal honor and people kept to
their word. Unfortunately, this honor system kept on getting abused.

Nowadays, we have a culture based on self-gratification and hedonism.
Watch MTV for awhile and you'll find out.


You must be a Capitalist
I can't afford Pay TV

0tterbot wrote:

I can feel my soapbox rising up beneath me...

Writing properly out of respect for Trish's incipient conniption & the
subject matter involved ;-)

Why thank you, Otbot, dear! ;-

snip

I was of the generation who wasn't formally taught grammar - but mine's fine
(as with most of the generation, in fact, luckily). Which doesn't mean I'm
not pleased particular attention is being paid these days! Really, people
who have good grammar & spelling against all odds are most likely those who
read a lot - it's really the only way it happens. Well, being surrounded by
people with good grammar also helps, I must say. But, it can be learned,
too. DH's grammar was appalling until I insisted he work harder because the
way he used to speak just made him sound like a moron, & he's not. He still
can't spell to save his life, but that's not really my concern (his
customers don't deal with anything he's written; that's mostly my privilege
;-)

I don't want my kids to sound particularly uppah clahss (We're not!
We're so working class, it's not funny!) I want them to be eloquent and
articulate. I also want them to have easy access to their heritage in
all forms of its literature and art.

Just the other day, I was quoting 'The Man From Snowy River' at my
daughter *who had never heard it recited before*. How can it be that
such an icon of the Australian heritage can be left out of today's
education system? I can never read that poem without shedding a little
tear! Having been a horsewoman for most of my life, I can picture the
stripling's wild ride with such clarity, it hurts. I want my kids to be
able to share such experiences and also to communicate them to others.

I have a theory that it will be far fewer years than we could imagine
before kids no longer need to learn to read or write or spell or
punctuate because machines will do it for them. The art forms we call
'the novel' and 'the poem' will disappear in favour of video movies and
thus all the imagery of the great poets and writers will become antique
and therefore no longer have currency. How awful!

I think it's interesting to note that Latin names for plants are easily
understood by most of us and leave no doubt as to a plant's identity when
various common names might be in use...

That's exactly right. Everyone agrees there has to be a common denominator
(as it were) in language.
Kylie
P.S. There you go, Farmie!! I told you I know capitals bg!



ROTFL! I guess it all comes down to learning about what matters to us,
doesn't it?

--
Trish {|:-} Newcastle, NSW, Australia

FarmI wrote:

snip

And 'ass' for 'arse' - I tend to ask why they are into donkey abuse.

I'd love to know where that came from? (Should be 'whence that came' but
what the hell!) ;-
snip

Our daughter has always been able to spell well but her friend whose
parents are both teachers has always struggled. I do think that some people
are more inclined to be good spellers than others although have absolutely
no proof to support that statement, just observation.

Yes. Some people just have that kind of memory for words and
constructions. It doesn't mean that others shouldn't try, though.
Misspelling a difficult word is always forgivable, but misspelling
common, everyday words is just laziness.

Did you catch the interesting show in the TV tonight about intelligence
testing? It was called "the Battle of the Brains". There was one
interesting snippet in that show. In Scotland, they found IQ tests done
decades ago by a large number of 11 year olds. They had tracked down many
of them (now in their late 70s/early 80s) and ran them through the same
test. They found that on average, their IQs had gone up 10 points.

No, I missed it unfortunately. I think these things all come down to a
thirst for knowing things. People who like to know stuff never cease
learning, IMHO.


I've always said that we (should) learn and continue to develop all through
life and I wouldn't mind betting that your parents did just that even if
they left school with a good education in just the basic 3Rs.

Oh yes! My Dad could add a column of figures in his head much quicker
than I could do it on a calculator (and he always described himself as
'only a butcher'). My Mum is 86 and she keeps her dictionary and her
atlas nearby at all times. It irritates her that political boundaries
keep changing and she has to keep re-learning the names and cities of
all the countries mentioned in the daily news. :-D

I think it's interesting to note that Latin names for plants are easily
understood by most of us and leave no doubt as to a plant's identity when
various common names might be in use...

:-)) The trouble with Latin names, is that when I use them and I tend to do
so a lot, I always seem to be accused of being a snob or a know it all. I
used to explain to people that the more interested one in plants and
gardening, the more likely one is to seek out the sort of publications that
use botanical names and that reading such documents leads to using the
correct names. That explantion doesn't seem to wash with many people though
so I don't bother doing that so much these days. I just think 'Idiot!' to
myself. I'm getting old and intolerant.


Ah, join the club! Whenever we go bush, I spend most of my day walking
along with my nose either on the ground looking at plants or in the air
looking at birds. My continual muttering of Latin names used to irritate
the family, but they've learned to tolerate it and even join in on the
easy ones. Of course it must be annoying to those who don't know the
Latin, but it's just my way of consolidating them in my mind and making
sure I continue to remember them. I majored in Taxonomy at Uni and it's
still hugely important to me to be able to classify things. LOL!

(Also, I think it's pretty neat that I'm using names assigned by people
like Sir Joseph Banks and Carl Solander over two hundred years ago...)

--
Trish {|:-} Newcastle, NSW, Australia

"George W. Frost" wrote in message
news:tcAij.2818$421.1225@news-

You must be a Capitalist
I can't afford Pay TV


Its on the regular channels occasionally. You can try ABC's Rage. Its on in
the weekends.

Blackadder XXIV wrote:

Looking at our situation today, Indonesia's population is increasing
rapidly. 200 million + at the last count. I'd suspect that in about 30 or 50
years time or so, their population will be about 500 million - and they'll
come over and take this land.

lol, let me see if I understand this OT garbage. Millions of Indonesians
are going to leave their land of water surplus to suddenly invade a
land of very little water.

Not to mentionthe fact that they some how have to fit 500 million
Indonesians into that place in the first place.

Blackadder XXIV wrote:

The aquaduct system was physically destroyed by barbarians who invaded the
country.

Sure? The country had died anyway well before the barbarians decided
they'd had enough of their lands being pillaged by yhe romans and
decided to return the favour.

"0tterbot" wrote in message news:WXkij.2641

P.S. There you go, Farmie!! I told you I know capitals bg!

Well done Otter! Now you just have to use them, ya slack tart! :-))

BTW, could you e-mail me please? moura at bluemaxx and add the country code
at the end.

Fran

"Trish Brown" wrote in message

Just the other day, I was quoting 'The Man From Snowy River' at my
daughter *who had never heard it recited before*. How can it be that such
an icon of the Australian heritage can be left out of today's education
system? I can never read that poem without shedding a little tear! Having
been a horsewoman for most of my life, I can picture the stripling's wild
ride with such clarity, it hurts. I want my kids to be able to share such
experiences and also to communicate them to others.

Aaaaaah! A woman after my own heart! Not the horsewoman part, I'm an
indifferent rider, and always have been even though I love horses and sadly
on this farm they are no more. However, I do love poetry and the mere
mention of the Man from Snowy River can easily bring a tear to my eye.

My mother could recite poetry till the cows come home and I can remember
many a night when we would start to do the washing up and she would start to
recite. Lovely old poems like "Here she goes and there she goes", "King
John and the Abbot of Canterbury", "The Man from Snowy River", "The Geebung
Polo Club", "The man from Ironbark", and a personla favourite "Pardon the
son of Reprieve". You've brought back some lovely memories.

Mum's memory was phenomenal but just sometimes it would fail her, so out
would come the poetry books while she looked up the small bit that had
slipped her mind. Once reminded off she would go again, but the poetry
books would draw her back till she spotted another old favourite and then
the washing up would be forgotten and while the water slowly congealed she's
recite poetry to us. This would go on for hours until she'd suddenly notice
the time and we would be packed off to bed while she had to continue the
washing up "alone and unassisted".

She too had been a wonderful horsewoman in her youth and since doing the
family history I've since learned that according to old family
members,"there wasn't a horse that she couldn't ride". I never knew that as
a child.

I have a theory that it will be far fewer years than we could imagine
before kids no longer need to learn to read or write or spell or punctuate
because machines will do it for them. The art forms we call 'the novel'
and 'the poem' will disappear in favour of video movies and thus all the
imagery of the great poets and writers will become antique and therefore
no longer have currency. How awful!

Shudder! I hope not.

"George W. Frost" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message

:-)) The trouble with Latin names, is that when I use them and I tend to
do so a lot, I always seem to be accused of being a snob or a know it
all. I used to explain to people that the more interested one in plants
and gardening, the more likely one is to seek out the sort of
publications that use botanical names and that reading such documents
leads to using the correct names. That explantion doesn't seem to wash
with many people though so I don't bother doing that so much these days.
I just think 'Idiot!' to myself. I'm getting old and intolerant.


Not only with Latin names but, even when you use the proper names for a
car for example:

I own a Ford, would not bring a great response
yet, I own a 1969 Ford Mustang 427 Super Cobra Jet fastback, would bring
a huge response from the people who know, that the car I have is a
special model identified by its proper name.

I have fond memories of a Ford Mustang of about that vintage :-))

Now we have lots of old Land Rovers which I find hard to get excited about
but we do have a few other old cars which I rather like.

I could be accused of being a snob, but I tend to believe that lucky would
be the more appropriate word.
However, if you use the proper Latin name for a plant, doesn't to me show
snobbery, but shows that you are intelligent enough to know your plants
and only passing on the information to others.

I went to a nursery with a photo of a plant I wanted to identify and was
given a Latin name, which he wrote down, so I looked it up and found it
wasn't what he said it was, so I posted a photo on a newsgroup and very
helpful people came up with the correct Latin name and the English name
for it
So, it pays to know the Latin name as well as the English name for any
plant

I find the uk.rec.gardening ng is a good one for seeing people who really
know their Latin names -leaves us Aussies for dead. I also notice that
about the British mags too which is why I always buy "The English Garden".
Their plant info is far better than any of the Aussie mags but i do
sometimes smile to myself. I was reading one article about Romneya and the
article said that it could become invasive. Given how sodding dry it's been
here for so many years, I thought "I wish!".

"Trish Brown" wrote in message

(snip) I think these things all come down to a
thirst for knowing things. People who like to know stuff never cease
learning, IMHO.

I thinks so too. Curiosity is a wonderful learning aid.

I've always said that we (should) learn and continue to develop all
through life and I wouldn't mind betting that your parents did just that
even if they left school with a good education in just the basic 3Rs.

Oh yes! My Dad could add a column of figures in his head much quicker than
I could do it on a calculator (and he always described himself as 'only a
butcher'). My Mum is 86 and she keeps her dictionary and her atlas nearby
at all times. It irritates her that political boundaries keep changing and
she has to keep re-learning the names and cities of all the countries
mentioned in the daily news. :-D

I know jsut what she means!

I think it's interesting to note that Latin names for plants are easily
understood by most of us and leave no doubt as to a plant's identity
when various common names might be in use...

:-)) The trouble with Latin names, is that when I use them and I tend to
do so a lot, I always seem to be accused of being a snob or a know it
all. I used to explain to people that the more interested one in plants
and gardening, the more likely one is to seek out the sort of
publications that use botanical names and that reading such documents
leads to using the correct names. That explantion doesn't seem to wash
with many people though so I don't bother doing that so much these days.
I just think 'Idiot!' to myself. I'm getting old and intolerant.
Ah, join the club! Whenever we go bush, I spend most of my day walking
along with my nose either on the ground looking at plants or in the air
looking at birds. My continual muttering of Latin names used to irritate
the family, but they've learned to tolerate it and even join in on the
easy ones. Of course it must be annoying to those who don't know the
Latin, but it's just my way of consolidating them in my mind and making
sure I continue to remember them. I majored in Taxonomy at Uni and it's
still hugely important to me to be able to classify things. LOL!

I wish I could classify things! it must be wonderful to be able to do that!
About as much as I can manage is to get out my Horticultural Dictionary and
look at individual leaf shapes and tree shapes and then try to identify
things from there. Very unsatisfactory and frustrating.

You might be interested in a book that I have found to be simply
fascinating. It's called "Life on forty acres" by Barry P. Moore. He
trained as a chemist but has an interest in biology and entomology and I
think his wife was a botanist. Tragically she was killed.

This book is about his 40 acre block and I wouldn't have believed that
anyone could make a book about 40 acres not too distant from Canberra, the
least bit interesting. If anyone had asked me, I'd have descibed it as
scrofulous boring country but that isn't how he sees it or describes it.

He covers everything on his block from the smallest insect to the Wedge
tailed eagle. And in such superb detail. I never thought I would be
interested in insects but he writes about them so well that I now look at
bugs in my own garden with a magnifying glass.

(Also, I think it's pretty neat that I'm using names assigned by people
like Sir Joseph Banks and Carl Solander over two hundred years ago...)

:-)) A true link with our past.

Kylie

Ooops. Sorry Kylie, forgot to mention to put the 'dot com' in before the
country code!

Fran