Hi all;

I have a nice Chinese Elm that up until now was doing great.
Lots of new growth that I've clipped into shape.
I was rather pleased for a newbie !!

I've been trying to establish a watering/fertilizing program, but the
constant rainfall and lack of sunshine here in central Pennsylvania has made
this extremely difficult. Even with the "chopstick in the soil" method.

Recently, (last few days) I've noticed a number of the leaves turning yellow
with minor black spots.
Some of the new growth is starting to curl.
This number is increasing and is scaring me to death.
Hope it's not scaring my Elm to death as well !!

Is this a result of over watering ? under watering? over
fertilizing? under fertilizing ? ????


Mark Hill - Harrisburg PA - Zone 6

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In article ,
(Mark Hill) wrote:

Hi all;

I have a nice Chinese Elm that up until now was doing great.
Lots of new growth that I've clipped into shape.
I was rather pleased for a newbie !!

I've been trying to establish a watering/fertilizing program, but the
constant rainfall and lack of sunshine here in central Pennsylvania has
made
this extremely difficult. Even with the "chopstick in the soil" method.

Recently, (last few days) I've noticed a number of the leaves turning
yellow
with minor black spots.
Some of the new growth is starting to curl.
This number is increasing and is scaring me to death.
Hope it's not scaring my Elm to death as well !!

Is this a result of over watering ? under watering? over
fertilizing? under fertilizing ? ????


Mark Hill - Harrisburg PA - Zone 6

I think it needs more nitrates or more magnesium. You might want to up
its dosage of fertiliser.


Liam

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Recently, (last few days) I've noticed a number of the leaves turning yellow
with minor black spots.
Some of the new growth is starting to curl.
This number is increasing and is scaring me to death.
Hope it's not scaring my Elm to death as well !!

Is this a result of over watering ? under watering? over
fertilizing? under fertilizing ? ????

Hi Mark- it's a result of your elm getting "black spot of elm", a
fungal disease. If there aren't too many affected leaves, pick them
off when the foliage is dry, making sure not to touch healthy leaves.

If a lot of leaves are affected, go to your local Agway or whatever,
and see if you can buy a systemic fungicide labled for black spot
(the fungicide will undoubtedly be for outdoor use only, since most
people don't have indoor elms, so if your elm is indoors, put it out
before spraying). Remember to follow the label instructions exactly;
it's the law.

Nina, who is still studying for her Maryland Pesticide applicator's
license, and has this stuff down cold, let me tell you.

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Thanks Nina;

Will Neem Oil do the trick ?

Mark Hill - Harrisburg PA - Zone 6


-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of
Nina Shishkoff
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 9:50 AM
To:


Nina, who is still studying for her Maryland Pesticide applicator's
license, and has this stuff down cold, let me tell you.

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Thanks Nina;

Will Neem Oil do the trick ?

Mark Hill - Harrisburg PA - Zone 6

Neem oil is generally used as an insecticide, although people now use
it for everything (brush their teeth with it, too, I'll wager). It's
a protectant, not a systemic. If you have a slight infection, you
could use a protectant to, obviously, protect the healthy foliage.
I'd stay away from oils and copper sprays if you now have hot
weather- they can be phytotoxic, especially neem oil. You'd be best
off calling Cooperative Extension and asking them what to use for
black spot (I don't have the laws for Pennsylvania handy, sorry). In
New York, you'd be advised to use Maneb or Mancozeb.

If you have a LOT of black spot, it's too late for a protectant, and
you need a systemic, but I'm not sure there are any labeled for this.
To be honest, it simply isn't a serious disease. If you remove
disease leaves, clean the litter from under the tree and wait, the
whole thing will clear up. An otherwise healthy elm won't even blink
at black spot.

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Thanks again Jim;

I just wandered about my property and noticed that my LARGE crab apple tree
appears to be suffering from the same "yellow leaf/black spot" symptoms.
From what I recall, this tree displays this "feature" every year. A neighbor
next door(500 feet away) has a similar crab apple with similar features.
This is the first time I've seen my Elm produce these yellow leaves with
black spots.
Any chance that a leaf from the apple fell into the Elm pot and caused this
disease ?

I just spoke with Gary at Natures Way (Jim Doyle's place) and he suggested I
remove all the effected leaves then go to the local nursery and get a
systemic fungi spray and give it a try.

Any other suggestions ??
I sure would hate to loose this tree.

Mark




-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of
Jim Lewis
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 2:34 PM
To:



Mark Hill - Harrisburg PA - Zone 6

I think it needs more nitrates or more magnesium. You might
want to up
its dosage of fertiliser.


NONONONONONONONONO. You don't fertilize a sick tree without
KNOWING what's wrong. Fertilizer is NOT medicine!

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Mark Hill - Harrisburg PA - Zone 6

I think it needs more nitrates or more magnesium. You might
want to up
its dosage of fertiliser.


NONONONONONONONONO. You don't fertilize a sick tree without
KNOWING what's wrong. Fertilizer is NOT medicine!

Yellow leaves do not necessarily indicate chlorosis. They CAN
indicate an unhappy tree -- often, one that's getting too much
water; sometimes one that has been overdosed with fertilizer.
Sometimes they only indicate old leaves.

There is a maple fungus that has no cure and for which a regular
dose of nitrogen fertilizer is suggested as a _possible_ way to
keep the fungus from spreading to the rest of the tree, but it is
something of a desperate wish.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - This economy
is a wholly owned subsidiary of the environment. - Gaylord
Nelson, 1995

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Thanks again Jim;

I just wandered about my property and noticed that my LARGE crab apple tree
appears to be suffering from the same "yellow leaf/black spot" symptoms.
From what I recall, this tree displays this "feature" every year. A neighbor
next door(500 feet away) has a similar crab apple with similar features.
This is the first time I've seen my Elm produce these yellow leaves with
black spots.
Any chance that a leaf from the apple fell into the Elm pot and caused this
disease ?

Nope. The apples probably have cedar-apple rust (see archives, or
the summer issue of ABS magazine), the symptoms of which I'm
beginning to see on apples here. Plant diseases are fairly specific;
generally they remain within a given plant family, although there are
plenty of exceptions.

Jim is being very hard on fungicides, but basically he is correct (if
it's sold to the general public, that usually means it doesn't work).
I never use fungicides on my bonsai. However, there's a difference
between what's the best thing for people with just a few plants to
do, and what's right for a nursery owner. Nursery owners *have* to
spray for some things. Whereas you can just as easily pull off
diseased leaves.

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--- Nina Shishkoff wrote:
..

Jim is being very hard on fungicides, but basically
he is correct (if
it's sold to the general public, that usually means
it doesn't work).
I never use fungicides on my bonsai. However,
there's a difference
between what's the best thing for people with just a
few plants to
do, and what's right for a nursery owner. Nursery
owners *have* to
spray for some things. Whereas you can just as
easily pull off
diseased leaves.

I beg to differ about fungicides. I had been loosing
pines on a regular basis. Last year I said what the
heck and dormant sprayed a sickly pine with lime
sulfer. I saved the pine. I believe it had some sort
of fungus (dull green scaly needles) So an over the
counter spray did help in this case. I now include
all my trees with the lime supfer dormant spray. I
use the oil spray only on the dicidious trees.

I live in California where the winters are relatively
mild and very wet.

Kitsune Miko

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Mark:

I may be all wet (being here in the Mid Atlantic states, it is not
hard), but have you noticed a lot of Pine treees in your neighborhood?

Last year my elms and Cotoneaster seemed to have had the same problem as
you described. I did clean off the leaves carefully, and they all came
back well. This year I kept my few pines and Junipers as far away as
possible and have not had any sign of the fungus or the rust fungus of
last year. (?). Maybe just coincidence, but I post it here for what it
is worth....

Carl L. Rosner - near Atlantic City zone 6/7
http://bmee.net/rosner
http://www.jamesbaird.com/cgi-bin/Ja...d=00000068 48




Mark Hill wrote:

Thanks again Jim;

I just wandered about my property and noticed that my LARGE crab apple tree
appears to be suffering from the same "yellow leaf/black spot" symptoms.
From what I recall, this tree displays this "feature" every year. A neighbor
next door(500 feet away) has a similar crab apple with similar features.
This is the first time I've seen my Elm produce these yellow leaves with
black spots.
Any chance that a leaf from the apple fell into the Elm pot and caused this
disease ?

I just spoke with Gary at Natures Way (Jim Doyle's place) and he suggested I
remove all the effected leaves then go to the local nursery and get a
systemic fungi spray and give it a try.

Any other suggestions ??
I sure would hate to loose this tree.

Mark







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--- Nina Shishkoff wrote:
.

Jim is being very hard on fungicides, but basically
he is correct (if
it's sold to the general public, that usually means
it doesn't work).
I never use fungicides on my bonsai. However,
there's a difference
between what's the best thing for people with just a
few plants to
do, and what's right for a nursery owner. Nursery
owners *have* to
spray for some things. Whereas you can just as
easily pull off
diseased leaves.

I beg to differ about fungicides. I had been loosing
pines on a regular basis. Last year I said what the
heck and dormant sprayed a sickly pine with lime
sulfer. I saved the pine.

Well, I allowed as how you might get a benefit from a
PREVENTATIVE spray of a fungicide BEFORE the fungus's growing
period. But they're not much good at CURING a fungus.

I believe it had some sort of fungus (dull green scaly needles)

It may not have been a fungus (and it MAY have been a fungus; I
dunno what pines get in California) but lime sulfur is used as a
general insecticide as well (read the label ;-) and it may have
cured something else. ;-)

I'll stand by my claim that the stuff Mr. and Mrs. Gardener can
buy with "fungicide" on the label is, in general, pretty darned
useless -- especially if the fungus is currently doing its thing.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - This economy
is a wholly owned subsidiary of the environment. - Gaylord
Nelson, 1995

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I just spoke with Gary at Natures Way (Jim Doyle's place) and
he suggested I
remove all the effected leaves then go to the local nursery and
get a
systemic fungi spray and give it a try.

Any other suggestions ??
I sure would hate to loose this tree.


Remove the leaves, clean the bonsai table of all dead leaves,
soil washed from pots, and other accumulated litter, leave the
tree or trees out where sun and wind can find it, and see if you
can save yourself a few bucks on the fungicide.

And, much as I know it hurts for to lose a tree (I lost a shohin
yaupon holly twin trunk that I'd put 10 years work into this
year) . . . it's only a tree. There are more where it came from.
You don't need to spend more than the tree may be worth to save
it.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - This economy
is a wholly owned subsidiary of the environment. - Gaylord
Nelson, 1995

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Carl;

That may not be as crazy as it sounds.
Last week I attended another class and came home with a shiny new Mugo about
a foot tall.
Just so happens that it's been sitting right beside the Elm for the past
week.

Coincidence ??
Who knows .....

Other than that, the nearest large pine trees are 1/2 mile down the road.

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of
Carl L Rosner
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 4:01 PM
To:

Mark:

I may be all wet (being here in the Mid Atlantic states, it is not
hard), but have you noticed a lot of Pine treees in your neighborhood?

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Ive said it before on here but i'll say it again. I
use a fungicide called phyton 27 its a bit pricey but
it DOES work there are one or 2 places online that
sell it. Ive sprayed it onto an elm before but ive
never treated the roots on an elm. I sware by the
stuff when i run into fungus though. Lime sulfer also
works as a dormant spray fungicide.

Ben

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Mark:

I neglected tosay that my next door neighbor has a huge 25 foot pine
that hangs over my property (and my car) and I also suspecrt that it
might be more the culprit than my small Pines... :-[

Carl L. Rosner

EESiFlo (North America) wrote:

Carl;

That may not be as crazy as it sounds.
Last week I attended another class and came home with a shiny new Mugo about
a foot tall.
Just so happens that it's been sitting right beside the Elm for the past
week.

Coincidence ??
Who knows .....

Other than that, the nearest large pine trees are 1/2 mile down the road.

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of
Carl L Rosner
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 4:01 PM
To:

Mark:

I may be all wet (being here in the Mid Atlantic states, it is not
hard), but have you noticed a lot of Pine treees in your neighborhood?






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