Well, after nursing the collected seedling along, I gave up. It refuses to
bud back any further. I just bought a nursery pine, in a manageable size, at a
price I can afford. It looks as though it can easily be cut back to bonsai
proportions. The question is scheduling. Can I leave it in the nursery pot or
should I put it in the ground? I will need it in a pot to take it to a workshop in
the fall. Can I do any pruning now? It has pretty close internodes, but too
many branches. Also, the branches need to be shortened. When, if ever, can I
prune the roots?
Iris

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wrote:

Well, after nursing the collected seedling along, I gave up. It refuses to
bud back any further. I just bought a nursery pine, in a manageable size, at a
price I can afford. It looks as though it can easily be cut back to bonsai
proportions. The question is scheduling. Can I leave it in the nursery pot or
should I put it in the ground? I will need it in a pot to take it to a workshop in
the fall. Can I do any pruning now? It has pretty close internodes, but too
many branches. Also, the branches need to be shortened. When, if ever, can I
prune the roots?
Iris


I understand there are some dwarf cultivars that bud back. Anita Hawkins tells me
she has one. Maybe she could post the cultivar name on the list.

I'd leave it in the nursery pot if it were mine. If you put it in the ground it will
take off so quickly you'll never catch up with it.

My suspicion is you could prune, but you won't get any more growth until next year
other than the setting of next year's buds.

Be careful with the roots. I've worked with a few Eastern White Pines (Pinus
strobus) although all collected specimens, meaning the roots were more sparse. My
guess is a nursery tree will have a better rootball.

Good luck with your experiment. I haven't given up on this species yet--in fact, my
large Pinus strobus is actually beginning to look like something. I'm sure I won't
be able to convince the oldtimers yet.

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

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wrote:

Well, after nursing the collected seedling along, I gave up. It refuses to
bud back any further. I just bought a nursery pine, in a manageable size, at a
price I can afford. It looks as though it can easily be cut back to bonsai
proportions. The question is scheduling. Can I leave it in the nursery pot or
should I put it in the ground? I will need it in a pot to take it to a workshop in
the fall. Can I do any pruning now? It has pretty close internodes, but too
many branches. Also, the branches need to be shortened. When, if ever, can I
prune the roots?
Iris


I understand there are some dwarf cultivars that bud back. Anita Hawkins tells me
she has one. Maybe she could post the cultivar name on the list.

I'd leave it in the nursery pot if it were mine. If you put it in the ground it will
take off so quickly you'll never catch up with it.

My suspicion is you could prune, but you won't get any more growth until next year
other than the setting of next year's buds.

Be careful with the roots. I've worked with a few Eastern White Pines (Pinus
strobus) although all collected specimens, meaning the roots were more sparse. My
guess is a nursery tree will have a better rootball.

Good luck with your experiment. I haven't given up on this species yet--in fact, my
large Pinus strobus is actually beginning to look like something. I'm sure I won't
be able to convince the oldtimers yet.

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

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If you have an Eastern white pine, you have a headache. Long needles, hard
to transplant, even in spring; and those long internodes you were
mentioning. I dunno what to say.
Transplanting it now is almost a sure loser. If you're taking it to a
workshop next month, try keeping it in its pot or burlap. Work on it at the
workshop, then bury it in the ground for the winter. Next spring you can
put it in a bonsai pot, but you still have to be careful with those ticklish
roots.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 3:28 PM
Subject: [IBC] White Pine


Well, after nursing the collected seedling along, I gave up. It refuses to
bud back any further. I just bought a nursery pine, in a manageable size,
at a
price I can afford. It looks as though it can easily be cut back to bonsai
proportions. The question is scheduling. Can I leave it in the nursery pot
or
should I put it in the ground? I will need it in a pot to take it to a
workshop in
the fall. Can I do any pruning now? It has pretty close internodes, but
too
many branches. Also, the branches need to be shortened. When, if ever, can
I
prune the roots?
Iris


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If you have an Eastern white pine, you have a headache. Long needles, hard
to transplant, even in spring; and those long internodes you were
mentioning. I dunno what to say.
Transplanting it now is almost a sure loser. If you're taking it to a
workshop next month, try keeping it in its pot or burlap. Work on it at the
workshop, then bury it in the ground for the winter. Next spring you can
put it in a bonsai pot, but you still have to be careful with those ticklish
roots.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 3:28 PM
Subject: [IBC] White Pine


Well, after nursing the collected seedling along, I gave up. It refuses to
bud back any further. I just bought a nursery pine, in a manageable size,
at a
price I can afford. It looks as though it can easily be cut back to bonsai
proportions. The question is scheduling. Can I leave it in the nursery pot
or
should I put it in the ground? I will need it in a pot to take it to a
workshop in
the fall. Can I do any pruning now? It has pretty close internodes, but
too
many branches. Also, the branches need to be shortened. When, if ever, can
I
prune the roots?
Iris


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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

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Why not just get used to the tree and get the help you
need at the workshop? I have stuff in nursery cans
for years before I repot. No big deal.

Everytime I do lots to right after purchase dies on
me. So I take my time. I snip gently and fondle the
nebari to figure out front. I have a nice shipaku in
a five gal can. I waited 8 months before doing major
cuts. I thinned, poked, thinned, poked, cut back a
bit more util I decided what I wanted to do. Threw
2/3 of the tree away and picked a new primary branch.
Will probably pot down from 5 gal to large bulb pot
early next spring just before major new growth, get
some fine roots closer in, train for a while, then
find approprate bonsai pot.

You say it has close internodes. Can you see any buds
back at the base of the needles? If you see buds, you
can probably cut back to just before the buds. You
can probably take out extra brances, but I like to
take plants to workshops with options still available.

Kitsune Miko

From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 3:28 PM
Subject: [IBC] White Pine


Well, after nursing the collected seedling along,
I gave up. It refuses to
bud back any further. I just bought a nursery
pine, in a manageable size,
at a
price I can afford. It looks as though it can
easily be cut back to bonsai
proportions. The question is scheduling. Can I
leave it in the nursery pot
or
should I put it in the ground? I will need it in a
pot to take it to a
workshop in
the fall. Can I do any pruning now? It has pretty
close internodes, but
too
many branches. Also, the branches need to be
shortened. When, if ever, can
I
prune the roots?
Iris



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****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike
Page ++++


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http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++


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++++

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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++

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wrote:

In a message dated 8/7/03 3:36:40 PM, writes:

I understand there are some dwarf cultivars that bud back. Ý Anita
Hawkins tells me she has one..


I tried getting one. Bill took one look at it & said it would never be
suitable for bonsai. I put it in the garden. This is the standard
form, but it was raised nicely.

If you put it in the ground it will take off so quickly you'll never
catch up with it.

That's what I thought.

Marty Haber writes:
If you have an Eastern white pine, you have a headache. Long
needles, hard to transplant, even in spring; and those long internodes
you were mentioning.

This one has been kept sheared, & the internodes are not that long.
With bonsai training, the needles are better than ponderosa pine,
thank you.

snip
Iris

That's the spirit Iris! People always comment on the long needles on
Pinus strobus and turn around and drool over Ponderosa pines with
needles the same length or longer. Go figure.

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a

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In a message dated 8/7/03 7:29:07 PM, writes:
That's the spirit Iris! * People always comment on the long needles on
Pinus strobus and turn around and drool over Ponderosa pines with needles the
same length or longer.

Ponderosa pine exudes a surplus of testosterone, and appeals to a certain
group of male bonsai growers. In general, the white pine group is softer & more
feminine, even when grown in rugged styles.
Oddly enough, I was looking at some recent photos in WABE magazine, and all
the pine trees had their needles sheared like Marine recruits. I thought they
looked dreadful. Yet the Japanese think mud-men are kitschy. Go figure.
Iris

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On Thursday, August 7, 2003, at 09:32 PM, wrote:

Ponderosa pine exudes a surplus of testosterone, and appeals to a
certain
group of male bonsai growers.

Ho Ho Ho

Bob Seele
Nicely outside of Chicago

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wrote:

In a message dated 8/7/03 7:29:07 PM, writes:

That's the spirit Iris! Ý People always comment on the long needles
on Pinus strobus and turn around and drool over Ponderosa pines with
needles the same length or longer.


Ponderosa pine exudes a surplus of testosterone, and appeals to a
certain group of male bonsai growers. In general, the white pine group
is softer & more feminine, even when grown in rugged styles.

I would agree with the white pine being softer and more feminine. My
large one is turning out to have a bit of a weeping style. It's very
graceful. Maybe the prejudice against this particular species is that
it is an eastern US species, and not western. It seems as though people
go nuts over trees from the west but pan the material we have here.
Guilt by association.

Oddly enough, I was looking at some recent photos in WABE magazine,
and all the pine trees had their needles sheared like Marine recruits.
I thought they looked dreadful. Yet the Japanese think mud-men are
kitschy. Go figure.
Iris

It's all a matter of taste. We are obviously still in a world-view (in
terms of bonsai) where the Japanese model predominates, especially in
this country. If it's Japanese it's good.

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

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In a message dated 8/7/03 10:41:57 PM, writes:
Maybe the prejudice against this particular species is that it is an
eastern US species, and not western. * It seems as though people go nuts over trees
from the west* but pan the material we have here.

I wouldn't say so. I have tried P. strobus before, & it is not an easy
species. Red maple is no prize either. I would guess that the environmental
conditions out West, high salt content in the soil, erratic rainfall, lack of root
room, etc., contribute to the western species' ability to tolerate bonsai
conditions. On the other hand, poor soil fertility, competition, lack of light, and
ability to withstand overwatering, may make many tropical plants suitable for
growing in the home.
Iris

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In a message dated 8/8/2003 8:54:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, writes:

I wouldn't say so. I have tried P. strobus before, & it is
not an easy
species.

Although I have NEVER seen an exceptional Pinus strobus bonsai. They simply do not have enough of the desirable characteristics. However, they are excellent for the purpose of pushing your skills to the limit.

I consider the Japanese White Pine to be one of the most difficult and rewarding species for bonsai culture.

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
members.aol.com/iasnob/index.html

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Michael Persiano wrote:

In a message dated 8/8/2003 8:54:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, writes:

I wouldn't say so. I have tried P. strobus before, & it is
not an easy
species.

Although I have NEVER seen an exceptional Pinus strobus bonsai. They simply do not have enough of the desirable characteristics. However, they are excellent for the purpose of pushing your skills to the limit.


I'll take what you say seriously, Michael, because I know you had (or still have) at least one Pinus strobus that you have worked on for some time. Never discount the possibility of a first!

Thinking of exceptional, does every tree have to be exceptional, though? Just a thought.

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a


snip

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
members.aol.com/iasnob/index.html


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In a message dated 8/9/2003 6:10:30 AM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:

I'll take what you say seriously, Michael, because I know you had (or still
have) at least one Pinus strobus that you have worked on for some time.
Never discount the possibility of a first!

Thinking of exceptional, does every tree have to be exceptional, though?
Just a thought.


Hi Craig:

Every tree should be exceptional in the mind of the artist. We each
determine the personal boundaries for our work.

White Pines are demanding specimens--even when we start with solid materials.
In the case of Pinus strobus, I believe that we simply do not have a
fighting chance. );-)

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
member.aol.com/iasnob/index.html

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Thinking of exceptional, does every tree have to be
exceptional, though? Just a thought.


In fact, every tree can NOT be exceptional, because that would
negate the term itself.

However, the possibility should be there; otherwise, why bother?

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - The phrase
'sustainable growth' is an oxymoron. - Stephen Viederman

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