Richard writes:

Perhaps someone could comment in more detail the ways in
which these trees are 'problems'. Or point me to a text that can explain
more. Who are the critics of this art?

Problems? );-)) Most should have such a problem.

Who are the critics? Everyone. Everyone is a critic of art. However, some opinions matter more than others. With this said, one of the toughest critics is time. The true test of art is time--endurance. Not the life of the tree per say, but the life of the concept, image, and artistic vision.

And yes, we want the tree to live long lives.

Who is the toughest critic? You should be of your own bonsai art.

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
members.aol.com/iasnob

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On 25 Oct 2004 at 13:49, Richard Patefield wrote:

dalecochoy wrote:

..I'm just sitting here chuckling at a
critique of Mr. Kimura's tree styling practices ......by Jim Lewis??? :)


Personally, I would prefer a more developed style of critique -
referencing historical, cultural and economic contexts as well as the
aesthetic. Perhaps someone could comment in more detail the ways in
which these trees are 'problems'. Or point me to a text that can explain
more. Who are the critics of this art?

Its always been my view that those who can afford to patronise artists
get to decide who the geniuses are not the humble observers of the
finished artifacts.


Well, I don't know what Dale was referring to, but I wasn't
really "critiquing." I simply don't like his overly ornate
trees. Period. I like trees that appear to be styled by Ma
Nature -- not a Waring blender.

And specifically, I also thought the trees in that BT article
reprint were poor examples of his work.

Fine art critics notwithstanding, one really shouldn't
"critique" until one can "do" as well as the putative critiquee;
and I have never made that claim, and likely never will.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Bonsaiests
are like genealogists: We know our roots!

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Kitsune Miko"
Subject: [IBC] TRUE greatness


If you really want to be
shaken up, look up Lisa Tajima on the net. I have her
book. She is classicaly trained and is gaing
recognition in the japanese bonsai community.

Kitsune Miko


:) Well..... I think you are perhaps giving her a bit more notoriety than
is deserved... both for her bonsai and her simple toyish pottery ( heck,
even I can do those!) , .because she put out a book!!!.
About anyone could do that now in the age of computers. I think that's why
there are 20 books on bonsai for $12-$17 by people no one ever heard of
filled with pics of awful bonsai ( or good bonsai that belong to someone
else!). It so often seems people gain notoriety because they put out a
book, not because they put out a book because they were talented and people
recognized that.
Her book will be a dust collector in a short time....I suspect. Destined for
club auctions and.....eBay.
I also suspect that her having a display in a Japanese bonsai masters
display is much more small-group-politics than "gaining recognition in the
japanese bonsai community". Don't you think?
And,
Heck, lets face it and be truthfull here,
Being a cute young girl helps in any nationality's group run by old men! :)

I'm sure she wouldn't have any trouble getting a display into any national
convention here in the USA. We like cute girls too! :)

Dale

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Kitsune Miko"
Subject: [IBC] TRUE greatness


If you really want to be
shaken up, look up Lisa Tajima on the net. I have her
book. She is classicaly trained and is gaing
recognition in the japanese bonsai community.

Kitsune Miko


:) Well..... I think you are perhaps giving her a bit more notoriety than
is deserved... both for her bonsai and her simple toyish pottery ( heck,
even I can do those!) , .because she put out a book!!!.
About anyone could do that now in the age of computers. I think that's why
there are 20 books on bonsai for $12-$17 by people no one ever heard of
filled with pics of awful bonsai ( or good bonsai that belong to someone
else!). It so often seems people gain notoriety because they put out a
book, not because they put out a book because they were talented and people
recognized that.
Her book will be a dust collector in a short time....I suspect. Destined for
club auctions and.....eBay.
I also suspect that her having a display in a Japanese bonsai masters
display is much more small-group-politics than "gaining recognition in the
japanese bonsai community". Don't you think?
And,
Heck, lets face it and be truthfull here,
Being a cute young girl helps in any nationality's group run by old men! :)

I'm sure she wouldn't have any trouble getting a display into any national
convention here in the USA. We like cute girls too! :)

Dale

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Patefield"
Subject: [IBC] TRUE greatness
Its always been my view that those who can afford to patronise artists
get to decide who the geniuses are not the humble observers of the
finished artifacts.

Richard


Richard,
That is a very interesting, and I guess, I feel ...accurate statement.
It sure explains the buying/selling frenzy with designer clothes, watches,
purses, shoes, cars, watches, art, etc. etc.
I think you are onto something there!
Andy Warhol saw this long ago. The tomato soup can is great art... if you
are running with the right crowd! :)
Dale

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Patefield"
Subject: [IBC] TRUE greatness
Its always been my view that those who can afford to patronise artists
get to decide who the geniuses are not the humble observers of the
finished artifacts.

Richard


Richard,
That is a very interesting, and I guess, I feel ...accurate statement.
It sure explains the buying/selling frenzy with designer clothes, watches,
purses, shoes, cars, watches, art, etc. etc.
I think you are onto something there!
Andy Warhol saw this long ago. The tomato soup can is great art... if you
are running with the right crowd! :)
Dale

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dalecochoy wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kitsune Miko"
Subject: [IBC] TRUE greatness


If you really want to be

shaken up, look up Lisa Tajima on the net. I have her
book. She is classicaly trained and is gaing
recognition in the japanese bonsai community.

Kitsune Miko



:) Well..... I think you are perhaps giving her a bit more notoriety than
is deserved... both for her bonsai and her simple toyish pottery ( heck,
even I can do those!) , .because she put out a book!!!.
well someone said the same
about
Miro'( spanish painter)
*my kids can di the same *..
yes you can as my friends' kids can
NOW
but she (lisa) opened the way she was the first to have the idea and
the guts to make it real
the same as kimura( that I am not a fan of either) with his ogival
vertical hand sculptured stone with a pine in the middle ..he dared and
he did ... the others just nag :-D


About anyone could do that now in the age of computers. I think that's why
there are 20 books on bonsai for $12-$17 by people no one ever heard of
filled with pics of awful bonsai ( or good bonsai that belong to someone
else!). It so often seems people gain notoriety because they put out a
book, not because they put out a book because they were talented and people
recognized that.


there a lot of people that thinks they are talented and many are...
but very few reach the arrival line...

Her book will be a dust collector in a short time....I suspect. Destined for
club auctions and.....eBay.
it is fun and joyful in a Ikea's style apt ....
it would not be nice in her majesty the Queen Edwardian living room

I also suspect that her having a display in a Japanese bonsai masters
display is much more small-group-politics than "gaining recognition in the
japanese bonsai community". Don't you think?
a lot of small bonsai as shohin a mame have wonderfully carved and
colored pattern pottery that are not find in the normal size regular
strict pots..
it is a wink , a poetry dialogue between the small humorous pot and
his guest :the mini bonsai ..

And,
Heck, lets face it and be truthfull here,
Being a cute young girl helps in any nationality's group run by old men! :)

she's cute indeed.. it is a plus.. would she be ugly maybe her art
should be better or worse ? she has the look of her art ... :-)

I'm sure she wouldn't have any trouble getting a display into any national
convention here in the USA. We like cute girls too! :)

you are growling ...
do you have something against nice japanese gals?:-D
I find the idea of her bonsai's remarkable but I would not buy them
....... but her ..... it is another story :-D

have a sunny day...



MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4
Private Mail :
«»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«»

dalecochoy wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kitsune Miko"
Subject: [IBC] TRUE greatness


If you really want to be

shaken up, look up Lisa Tajima on the net. I have her
book. She is classicaly trained and is gaing
recognition in the japanese bonsai community.

Kitsune Miko



:) Well..... I think you are perhaps giving her a bit more notoriety than
is deserved... both for her bonsai and her simple toyish pottery ( heck,
even I can do those!) , .because she put out a book!!!.
well someone said the same
about
Miro'( spanish painter)
*my kids can di the same *..
yes you can as my friends' kids can
NOW
but she (lisa) opened the way she was the first to have the idea and
the guts to make it real
the same as kimura( that I am not a fan of either) with his ogival
vertical hand sculptured stone with a pine in the middle ..he dared and
he did ... the others just nag :-D


About anyone could do that now in the age of computers. I think that's why
there are 20 books on bonsai for $12-$17 by people no one ever heard of
filled with pics of awful bonsai ( or good bonsai that belong to someone
else!). It so often seems people gain notoriety because they put out a
book, not because they put out a book because they were talented and people
recognized that.


there a lot of people that thinks they are talented and many are...
but very few reach the arrival line...

Her book will be a dust collector in a short time....I suspect. Destined for
club auctions and.....eBay.
it is fun and joyful in a Ikea's style apt ....
it would not be nice in her majesty the Queen Edwardian living room

I also suspect that her having a display in a Japanese bonsai masters
display is much more small-group-politics than "gaining recognition in the
japanese bonsai community". Don't you think?
a lot of small bonsai as shohin a mame have wonderfully carved and
colored pattern pottery that are not find in the normal size regular
strict pots..
it is a wink , a poetry dialogue between the small humorous pot and
his guest :the mini bonsai ..

And,
Heck, lets face it and be truthfull here,
Being a cute young girl helps in any nationality's group run by old men! :)

she's cute indeed.. it is a plus.. would she be ugly maybe her art
should be better or worse ? she has the look of her art ... :-)

I'm sure she wouldn't have any trouble getting a display into any national
convention here in the USA. We like cute girls too! :)

you are growling ...
do you have something against nice japanese gals?:-D
I find the idea of her bonsai's remarkable but I would not buy them
....... but her ..... it is another story :-D

have a sunny day...



MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4
Private Mail :
«»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«»

----- Original Message -----
From: "Theo"
Subject: [IBC] TRUE greatness



but she (lisa) opened the way she was the first to have the idea and
the guts to make it real

What a courageous woman!!
and,
cute too! :)




And,
Heck, lets face it and be truthfull here,
Being a cute young girl helps in any nationality's group run by old men!
:)

she's cute indeed.. it is a plus.. would she be ugly maybe her art
should be better or worse ?

I'm sure she wouldn't have any trouble getting a display into any
national
convention here in the USA. We like cute girls too! :)

you are growling ...
do you have something against nice japanese gals?:-D
I find the idea of her bonsai's remarkable but I would not buy them
...... but her ..... it is another story :-D

I'm not sure, but, I think you just made my point??
Dale

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dalecochoy wrote:


you are growling ...
do you have something against nice japanese gals?:-D
I find the idea of her bonsai's remarkable but I would not buy them
...... but her ..... it is another story :-D


I'm not sure, but, I think you just made my point??
Dale

HI Dale
we reached the same agreement from different paths :-D
but more I think to these funny Pop BBonsai more I feel seduced to
the idea...
time will tell
anyway are far more funn than Mallsai :-D



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Private Mail :
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dalecochoy wrote:


you are growling ...
do you have something against nice japanese gals?:-D
I find the idea of her bonsai's remarkable but I would not buy them
...... but her ..... it is another story :-D


I'm not sure, but, I think you just made my point??
Dale

HI Dale
we reached the same agreement from different paths :-D
but more I think to these funny Pop BBonsai more I feel seduced to
the idea...
time will tell
anyway are far more funn than Mallsai :-D



MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4
Private Mail :
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Dear friends,

I have started some Japanese Pagoda tree seedlings
from seeds but it is hard to find information on the
seedlings of this specific species.
Has any of you worked with Sophora seedlings in the
past ?
Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Please have a look on one of the seedlings

http://www.bonsaichat.com/galleryView.asp?picID=130

cheers,
Dimitris



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Dear friends,

I have started some Japanese Pagoda tree seedlings
from seeds but it is hard to find information on the
seedlings of this specific species.
Has any of you worked with Sophora seedlings in the
past ?
Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Please have a look on one of the seedlings

http://www.bonsaichat.com/galleryView.asp?picID=130

cheers,
Dimitris



__________________________________
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Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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I know this one's been around before and I have got Jim Lewis's excellent advice on trips around Tokyo saved.

Does anyone else have favourite places to go, things to see and do in Japan. I am hopefully going from February 8th to 17th. It's an organised tour and the elements of the schedule proposed a-

▪ Visit to Kinashi Bonsai Village – the largest Bonsai village in Japan (over 270 gardens)
▪ Visit to Omiya Bonsai Village – Bonsai village near Tokyo
▪ Entry to Kokufu Bonsai-ten – the biggest annual Bonsai event in Japan
▪ Guided tours of Kyoto, Tokyo and Nara (Japan’s former ancient capital)
▪ Visit to Korakuen – one of Japan’s top 3 most celebrated gardens
▪ Travel on Japan’s famous Bullet Train
â–ª 8 nights hotel accommodation (4 nights Kyoto and 4 nights Tokyo)
â–ª Japanese Breakfast daily
â–ª Welcome Dinner on first night of arrival and Farewell Dinner on the last night
â–ª Scheduled return non-stop Economy class flights with Japan Airlines
â–ª Airport transfers from Osaka Airport to Kyoto on arrival and from Tokyo to Narita Airport (Tokyo New International) on departure
▪ Services of a knowledgeable Japan Journey’s guide throughout

Cheers

Kev Bailey
Vale Of Clwyd, North Wales


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I know this one's been around before and I have got Jim Lewis's excellent advice on trips around Tokyo saved.

Does anyone else have favourite places to go, things to see and do in Japan. I am hopefully going from February 8th to 17th. It's an organised tour and the elements of the schedule proposed a-

▪ Visit to Kinashi Bonsai Village – the largest Bonsai village in Japan (over 270 gardens)
▪ Visit to Omiya Bonsai Village – Bonsai village near Tokyo
▪ Entry to Kokufu Bonsai-ten – the biggest annual Bonsai event in Japan
▪ Guided tours of Kyoto, Tokyo and Nara (Japan’s former ancient capital)
▪ Visit to Korakuen – one of Japan’s top 3 most celebrated gardens
▪ Travel on Japan’s famous Bullet Train
â–ª 8 nights hotel accommodation (4 nights Kyoto and 4 nights Tokyo)
â–ª Japanese Breakfast daily
â–ª Welcome Dinner on first night of arrival and Farewell Dinner on the last night
â–ª Scheduled return non-stop Economy class flights with Japan Airlines
â–ª Airport transfers from Osaka Airport to Kyoto on arrival and from Tokyo to Narita Airport (Tokyo New International) on departure
▪ Services of a knowledgeable Japan Journey’s guide throughout

Cheers

Kev Bailey
Vale Of Clwyd, North Wales


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