Last year I decided to start my own seeds indoors. I wasn't always finding
the varieties of seedlings I wanted at the local nurseries and I thought I
might save a few $$

I purchased 6 of the self contained little greenhouse operations, the ones
that have a black water tray, a seed tray and a clear plastic dome. Three
used the compressed peat pellets and three used square peat pots containing
a starting mixture. I planted a variety of tomatoes, cukes, zuchini,
peppers, eggplants and brussel sprouts. Each tray held 72 peat pellets or 50
peat pots. This was too many but I wanted to allow for loss from possible
damping off.

The trays were placed on glass shelving in South-Southwest windows(almost
full sun) on Feb 14. Room temperature 65-75 degrees. Everything germinated
well in 10-14 days. I placed a fan in the room to keep the air circulating.

However, within days I had 5-6 inch, spindly, white seedlings with two small
leaves at the top of each plant. They would lean towards the sunlight and
when I would gently turn the trays, they would break or become entangled
with the other spindly plants. I did end up losing almost half of them by
planting time in May. It wasn't from the anticipated damping off. It was
through breakage.

Any advice from the experienced seed starters? A friend suggested that I
shouldn't start them in full sun, but this didn't sound logical to me and he
couldn't remember why you shouldn't do it.

In article P1VDh.103$854.32@trnddc04,
"Grave Yard Guy" wrote:

Last year I decided to start my own seeds indoors. I wasn't always finding
the varieties of seedlings I wanted at the local nurseries and I thought I
might save a few $$

I purchased 6 of the self contained little greenhouse operations, the ones
that have a black water tray, a seed tray and a clear plastic dome. Three
used the compressed peat pellets and three used square peat pots containing
a starting mixture. I planted a variety of tomatoes, cukes, zuchini,
peppers, eggplants and brussel sprouts. Each tray held 72 peat pellets or 50
peat pots. This was too many but I wanted to allow for loss from possible
damping off.

The trays were placed on glass shelving in South-Southwest windows(almost
full sun) on Feb 14. Room temperature 65-75 degrees. Everything germinated
well in 10-14 days. I placed a fan in the room to keep the air circulating.

However, within days I had 5-6 inch, spindly, white seedlings with two small
leaves at the top of each plant. They would lean towards the sunlight and
when I would gently turn the trays, they would break or become entangled
with the other spindly plants. I did end up losing almost half of them by
planting time in May. It wasn't from the anticipated damping off. It was
through breakage.

Any advice from the experienced seed starters? A friend suggested that I
shouldn't start them in full sun, but this didn't sound logical to me and he
couldn't remember why you shouldn't do it.

Sounds like not enough light to me...

Might want to try an overhead grow light or three.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

Any advice from the experienced seed starters? A friend suggested that I
shouldn't start them in full sun, but this didn't sound logical to me and
he
couldn't remember why you shouldn't do it.

Sounds like not enough light to me...

Might want to try an overhead grow light or three.


That seemed like the obvious to me, however, they were in S/SW windows that
got direct, bright light probably an average of 6 hours a day. I grow
cactus, succulents and other older houseplants in these windows from Sept to
May. I've never had any problems with established plants.

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 11:09:35 GMT, "Grave Yard Guy"
wrote:


The trays were placed on glass shelving in South-Southwest windows(almost
full sun) on Feb 14. Room temperature 65-75 degrees. Everything germinated
well in 10-14 days. I placed a fan in the room to keep the air circulating.

However, within days I had 5-6 inch, spindly, white seedlings with two small
leaves at the top of each plant. They would lean towards the sunlight and
when I would gently turn the trays, they would break or become entangled
with the other spindly plants. I did end up losing almost half of them by
planting time in May. It wasn't from the anticipated damping off. It was
through breakage.

Any advice from the experienced seed starters? A friend suggested that I
shouldn't start them in full sun, but this didn't sound logical to me and he
couldn't remember why you shouldn't do it.


They need more light. Today's windows are made to keep out some of
the sun so the plants need more light.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

In article ryXDh.2285$tR1.449@trnddc05,
"Grave Yard Guy" wrote:

Any advice from the experienced seed starters? A friend suggested that I
shouldn't start them in full sun, but this didn't sound logical to me and
he
couldn't remember why you shouldn't do it.

Sounds like not enough light to me...

Might want to try an overhead grow light or three.


That seemed like the obvious to me, however, they were in S/SW windows that
got direct, bright light probably an average of 6 hours a day. I grow
cactus, succulents and other older houseplants in these windows from Sept to
May. I've never had any problems with established plants.


The fact that the seedlings were white and "leaning" into the light does
not sound good.

Adult plants are a bit more tolerant, and have larger light gathering
surface area.

Just mho. :-)
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 14:00:55 GMT, "Grave Yard Guy"
wrote:


Any advice from the experienced seed starters? A friend suggested that I
shouldn't start them in full sun, but this didn't sound logical to me and
he
couldn't remember why you shouldn't do it.

Sounds like not enough light to me...

Might want to try an overhead grow light or three.


That seemed like the obvious to me, however, they were in S/SW windows that
got direct, bright light probably an average of 6 hours a day.


Yahbut, it's really neither bright, direct, or long enough. The glass
filters some of the sunlight out, and this time of year the angle of
the sun means the amount of light is actually less than in summer.
Plus, six hours is a paltry minimum for growing most summer
vegetables.

How much air from the fan is hitting the seedlings? Is it enough to
move the leaves? There is a plant hormone - one of the auxins, I
think- that causes thickening of the stems. My botany professor, lo
those many years ago, used to give a lecture about shaking your tomato
plants. He said we should shake our tomato seedlings at least once a
day to produce stronger, shorter plants, that it simulated the effects
of wind on plants. So, if your fan blows on your seedlings, it could
help to counter the low light levels. Not on high, though, you just
want to lightly ruffle the leaves, not send a gale to flatten them.

You'd still need to increase the light, though. You don't need
anything fancy, just get a cheap shop light and some regular
florescent tubes. No need to get the more expensive plant lights.

About the damping off, if you're using sterile seed starting soil and
the peat pots, you really shouldn't see any. Are you over watering? I
use the compressed peat pots for some of my seed starting, and they're
a little tougher to manage the moisture content. You might want to
avoid those until you get a little more experience at starting seeds.
I'm thinking that if you had fewer starts, you wouldn't need but one
or two shop lights.

Oh, and you do water from the bottom, right?

If you're still having problems with damping off, I would suggest
buying a mild fungicide and lightly spraying the surface of the soil
once the seedlings break though. I've also heard, although I can't
verify it, that sprinkling a bit of baby powder or cinnamon on the
surface of the soil will prevent damping off. Some people swear by
making a tea of chamomile blossoms and spraying the soil with it to
prevent damping off, too.

You might also want to put a thermomoter down with the seedlings to
see how warm they really are. Being too cool will encourage damping
off, too.

hth

Penelope
--
You have proven yourself to be the most malicious,
classless person that I've encountered in years.
- "pointed"

Thanks, but I had no damping off. The seedlings just got very long and
spindly while I had them in full sun. I was trying to find out if anyone
knows of a reason they shouldn't be started in full sun?

Thanks again...


Charlie wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 17:09:37 GMT, Penelope Periwinkle
wrote:
For two years I have sprinkled cinnamon on my seedling flats when
planting and have had no problems with damping off. Cinnamon is cheap
and goes a long way.

I also try to do everything else right, so who knows?

At any rate, it smells kinda nice!

--
Charlie

On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 15:19:08 GMT, "Grave Yard Guy"
wrote:

Thanks, but I had no damping off. The seedlings just got very long and
spindly while I had them in full sun. I was trying to find out if anyone
knows of a reason they shouldn't be started in full sun?

Thanks again...

Yours germinated in full sun. Weeds germinate just fine in full sun
or most any other condition. The main thing is to get as much light
as possible to the plants as soon as they appear without burning them.

Is your friend a successful gardener?
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 15:19:08 GMT, "Grave Yard Guy"
wrote:

Thanks, but I had no damping off. The seedlings just got very long and
spindly while I had them in full sun. I was trying to find out if anyone
knows of a reason they shouldn't be started in full sun?

Yes, but you planted so many of each variety because you were worried
about damping off. If you didn't have to plant so many, it would be
easier to get them all under proper lighting so the seedlings wouldn't
be too long and spindly.

You do get that, right? Your plants are long and spindly because
they're not getting enough light.


Penelope
--
You have proven yourself to be the most malicious,
classless person that I've encountered in years.
- "pointed"

On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 00:46:13 -0600, Charlie wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 17:09:37 GMT, Penelope Periwinkle
wrote:


I've also heard, although I can't
verify it, that sprinkling a bit of baby powder or cinnamon on the
surface of the soil will prevent damping off. Some people swear by
making a tea of chamomile blossoms and spraying the soil with it to
prevent damping off, too.

For two years I have sprinkled cinnamon on my seedling flats when
planting and have had no problems with damping off. Cinnamon is cheap
and goes a long way.

I also try to do everything else right, so who knows?

At any rate, it smells kinda nice!

Ha! Do you get the urge for a cinnamon biscuit while you're gardening?


Penelope
--
You have proven yourself to be the most malicious,
classless person that I've encountered in years.
- "pointed"

On Feb 24, 6:09 am, "Grave Yard Guy" wrote:
Last year I decided to start my own seeds indoors. I wasn't always finding
the varieties of seedlings I wanted at the local nurseries and I thought I
might save a few $$

I purchased 6 of the self contained little greenhouse operations, the ones
that have a black water tray, a seed tray and a clear plastic dome. Three
used the compressed peat pellets and three used square peat pots containing
a starting mixture. I planted a variety of tomatoes, cukes, zuchini,
peppers, eggplants and brussel sprouts. Each tray held 72 peat pellets or 50
peat pots. This was too many but I wanted to allow for loss from possible
damping off.

The trays were placed on glass shelving in South-Southwest windows(almost
full sun) on Feb 14. Room temperature 65-75 degrees. Everything germinated
well in 10-14 days. I placed a fan in the room to keep the air circulating.

However, within days I had 5-6 inch, spindly, white seedlings with two small
leaves at the top of each plant. They would lean towards the sunlight and
when I would gently turn the trays, they would break or become entangled
with the other spindly plants. I did end up losing almost half of them by
planting time in May. It wasn't from the anticipated damping off. It was
through breakage.

Any advice from the experienced seed starters? A friend suggested that I
shouldn't start them in full sun, but this didn't sound logical to me and he
couldn't remember why you shouldn't do it.

Perhaps your friend is referring to hardening off. Seedling started
indoors should not be planted in full sun until it had a chance to get
used to outdoor light. If you plant one in direct sun right out of
the house it can be killed by the strong light.

Yes, but you planted so many of each variety because you were worried
about damping off. If you didn't have to plant so many, it would be
easier to get them all under proper lighting so the seedlings wouldn't
be too long and spindly.

You do get that, right? Your plants are long and spindly because
they're not getting enough light.

I don't learn fast, but I learn well!! Duh, it was logical to me that white,
spindly plants were due to insufficient light. I just thought that the large
S/SW windows were adequate and I allowed the ole friend to confuse me with
his statement about not starting the seed in bright light.

I've now cut back on this year's planned seed startings. All the windows and
glass shelving have been scrubbed and polished to crystal clarity, so as not
to lose a drop of natural light. After tapping my retirement account and a
trip to Lowe's, my windows now look like an airport runway.

Thanks to all for the advice, suggestions and patience.

Do I dare ask what the current thinking is on red plastic and tomatoes?

On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 12:03:07 GMT, "Grave Yard Guy"
wrote:


You do get that, right? Your plants are long and spindly because
they're not getting enough light.

I don't learn fast, but I learn well!! Duh, it was logical to me that white,
spindly plants were due to insufficient light. I just thought that the large
S/SW windows were adequate and I allowed the ole friend to confuse me with
his statement about not starting the seed in bright light.

Good!


I've now cut back on this year's planned seed startings. All the windows and
glass shelving have been scrubbed and polished to crystal clarity, so as not
to lose a drop of natural light. After tapping my retirement account and a
trip to Lowe's, my windows now look like an airport runway.

A little tin foil behind the plants can reflect a lot of light back,
too.


Thanks to all for the advice, suggestions and patience.

Do I dare ask what the current thinking is on red plastic and tomatoes?

Ask me in a few months. I'm going to give it a try this year. I
googled on the subject and found these articles :
http://plasticulture.cas.psu.edu/RedMulch.htm
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3741/is_n10_v45/ai_20095593
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~taber/Extension/Progress%20Rpt%2000/redmulch.pdf
http://lubbock.tamu.edu/horticulture/documents/EffectsofPlasticMulchTypeonTomatoGrowthandYield_20 04_.pdf
http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/pdfs/data/1997/152-24/15224-13.pdf

As you can see, the signals are mixed, so I'm just going to try it for
myself. While red mulch is what I hear about the most, I was also
interested to see that other colors are being tested, and some show
better results than the red.



Penelope
--
"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart."
"ElissaAnn"