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  #16   Report Post  
Old 28-01-2006, 12:40 PM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc,rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,alt.aquaria
Dick
 
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Default How much aeration needed?

On 26 Jan 2006 05:56:37 -0800, "Shorty"
wrote:

Yes, another question ...
When starting a planted tank with a few fish. How much aeration do I
need? I want to minimize surface turbulence to keep the injected DIY
CO2 in the tank.

I am using a canister filter. When I make the spray bar move the water
without disturbing the surface I get bubbles and some living things
floating at the surface. When I move the surface around, the stuff seem
to disappear.


I quit aereation about a year ago. I got tired of the mineral
deposits. All of my tanks have high densisty popultions: that is over
1 inch of fish/1 gallon of water.

I worried the first few days and watched closely for any movement to
the surface. Never happened. One of my good decisions. I love the
bubbles, but hate the mess.

dick

  #17   Report Post  
Old 28-01-2006, 07:32 PM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc,rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,alt.aquaria
Elaine T
 
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Default How much aeration needed?

Frank wrote:
Shorty wrote,

When starting a planted tank with a few fish. How much aeration do I
need?
I am using a canister filter.



The larger the bio-load and the warmer the water, the less dissolved
oxygen. Canister filters are known to move a lot of water - most types
of aquatic plants that thrive in nature, grow in slow flowing or still
water - plus, algaes do better in a turbulent enviroment.


That is SO odd. My experience is the exact opposite. It must be
specific the the kind of plants and algae. The only place long, fluffy
hair algae grows in my whiskey barrel pond is in part of one barrel
where the water is relatively still for the water lily. The water
hyacinth is much smaller in that barrel too. OTOH, the anacharis
sitting right in front of the spillway in strong current was growing
like crazy and blooming heavily last summer. I also get tons of hair
algae and blanketweed it in the calm, sponge filtered outdoor tank. My
mollies and flagfish love the stuff so I don't worry about it.

Indoors, I have clumps of java fern sitting in the filter outlet, and
they grow faster than the java fern on the other side of the tank. The
only place algae grows along the back of my 10 gallon tank is tangled in
the baby's tears where the current is light. Again, it's clumps of
fluffy hair algae - the kind that's not really attached to anything.
Maybe it gets carried to the filter in current?

I generally put crypts in moving water too, since all the pictures I've
seen of them in nature is bent over from the current in fast-flowing
streams. They seem to do fine that way.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com
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Old 28-01-2006, 08:40 PM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc,rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,alt.aquaria
Tynk
 
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Default How much aeration needed?


Koi-lo wrote:
"Tynk" wrote in message
oups.com...
How do you make sure everyone who
buys your bettas provides them with live plants and gravel?

========
Sorry, I forgot you had asked this question..I was so excited about
your boy's larger housing that I totally forgot you asked about this.
When I gave to people, they were either neighbors, friends, etc andf I
hardly ever charged them. However, word of mouth people that came to
buy I charged a very nomimal fee and it was usually less than what the
current price at the shops were.
I would ask them about what size tank they would be going into, as well
as explain the proper care if they didn't already know.
When I was breeding with regularity (yrs ago), it wasn't like it is
now. Bettas were given proper care and kept in tanks with common
community fish.


I was raising them in NYC (60s/70s). At that time they were kept in small
glass ivy bowls that held about 8oz of water. It was very cruel but the
stores said they had no choice. Space was at a premium there and still is.
Those who knew better had them in larger bowls with some gravel and at least
one small plant of some kind. The bowls were actually either used food
jars, cookie jars or regulation GF bowls, cheap then.

People hardly ever kept them in small bowls. Of course
some did. However, it really wasn't the norm, nor were they even near
as popular. Not even close! NetMax probably remembers this, as well as
other old time hobbyists who have been in the hobby as long or longer
than I have. ( since the 1970's).


There may be regional differences in their care. Here in TN they still keep
them in ivy bowls and sell people these small bowls to keep them in. Most
bettas don't survive very long. I know this because of what people I meet
say. I always hear something like this, "Oh I had a betta once. It lived
about 2 months [or some other time-period less than a year]."

If somebody were to tell me that they wanted to keep it in a little
bowl I would simply deny them the fish. Plain and simple.
Folks who didn't already know the proper care were educated.
Heck..back then I the smallest tank I can remember there being were the
AllGlass 2 1/2 gallon ones. Not sure on if they were out in the 70's,
as I used 5g's back then for tiny tanks.


I always remember there being 2g tanks. My mother bought us a 2g Metaframe
tank in 1952. It had a SS light and a plastic bubble-up filter, gray gravel
and a few real plants. She bought us guppies. I barely remember the GF
bowl and the 2 GF that died in days prior to that. I must have been very
young. Someone clued her in that fish can't live in bowls. I remember she
would change the Angelhair fiberglass filter material, carefully feed them.
That little tank hooked me for a lifetime. :-) I can't remember exactly
when they switched from SS framed tanks to all glass tanks.

How about anyone else...I can't remember.
Back then people didn't have these tiny tanks to choose from or those
horrible contaptions they're selling for Bettas these days. Those clear
plastic things that have an area that's almost a V shape in the middle
for the Betta to be housed in. It holds like a couple/few ounces of
water. These things are horribly cruel.


The stores here have all kinds of tiny over priced plastic bowls for Bettas.
:-( The place I got mine said they were around 1/2 gallon each. They
weren't, and I never gave it a thought because the fish did so well in them.

I even stopped going to one of
the local shops because he started selling these things. He got all
excited when I walked in one day and couldn't wait to show me these new
Betta "tanks".
I did one of these faces...= O
I said..I can't believe you are selling such cruel things and walked
out.
He knew better too. He's a local shop trying to compete with the chains
around him and I'm sorry, but he could have done better than that.
There's many 1g set ups with even a light that he could have sold for
less money than he was selling these torture chambers for.


I don't see any of those here. They used to sell the 1and 2g hex ones you
see on my windowsill, but those are hard to find now. They came with an
UGF, airpump, hood and even a light for $20! What happened to them? They
were excellent for bettas or other small fish. Now all I see are small
bowls and it then jumps to the 10g tank. The 2 and 5g tanks can only be
found in aquarium stores now and they aren't cheap. :-( The all glass 2s
(with glass dividers), the 5 and a few of my 10s were left to me by a
housemate who moved out of state back in 1988.

I will say some of these things are getting a little better.
Some have gotten to be a gallon or more and have these mini power
filters and some even have mini fluorescent lights above them. Those
are ok in a constantly warm house or for somebody in a warm climate.
(when talking Bettas that is)
But a couple/few ounces of water? Horrible.



Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
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~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o


I even stopped going to one of
the local shops because he started selling these things. He got all
excited when I walked in one day and couldn't wait to show me these new
Betta "tanks".
I did one of these faces...= O
I said..I can't believe you are selling such cruel things and walked
out.
He knew better too. He's a local shop trying to compete with the chains
around him and I'm sorry, but he could have done better than that.
There's many 1g set ups with even a light that he could have sold for
less money than he was selling these torture chambers for.


I don't see any of those here.


Oh my..you've never seen these little plastic things with about 2-3
ounces of water to them..
Hold on I am off to look for a link for you.
You won't believe your eyes.
Azoo is the comany that makes them. PenPlax alsomakes similar ones.
They do get small than what is in this picture, but without anything to
compare size to you really aren't going to see how very small these
things can get.
I've seen them smaller than what's in this link.
Azoo.com isn't up and running right now, I've been trying for half an
hour and still it's down.
PetCo likes to carry these things, but doesn't offer them on their
website.
It depends on the individual stores who carries these.
Some are only going to hold a couple to a few ounces of water. They are
very thin (front to back) too. It's sick.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Azoo-Betta-Fish-...QQcmdZViewItem

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Old 28-01-2006, 09:20 PM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc,rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,alt.aquaria
Koi-lo
 
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Default How much aeration needed?


"Tynk" wrote in message
oups.com...

Koi-lo wrote:
"Tynk" wrote in message
oups.com...
How do you make sure everyone who
buys your bettas provides them with live plants and gravel?


you are selling such cruel things and walked
out.
He knew better too. He's a local shop trying to compete with the chains
around him and I'm sorry, but he could have done better than that.
There's many 1g set ups with even a light that he could have sold for
less money than he was selling these torture chambers for.


I don't see any of those here.


Oh my..you've never seen these little plastic things with about 2-3
ounces of water to them..


No. I see the small ones that hold 8oz. That the smallest so far.

Hold on I am off to look for a link for you.
You won't believe your eyes.


Geeze, smaller than 8 oz???? :-(

Azoo is the comany that makes them. PenPlax alsomakes similar ones.
They do get small than what is in this picture, but without anything to
compare size to you really aren't going to see how very small these
things can get.
I've seen them smaller than what's in this link.


I just checked your link. No, I haven't seen them here. The smallest are
the tiny ivy bowls that hold about 8oz of water. Also some plastic tacky
trashy looking stuff that holds 8 to 10 oz. for bettas.

Azoo.com isn't up and running right now, I've been trying for half an
hour and still it's down.
PetCo likes to carry these things, but doesn't offer them on their
website.


Hummm....... ok I seldom go there because the PH is too low there and I
lose too many fish. Also, it's far.

It depends on the individual stores who carries these.
Some are only going to hold a couple to a few ounces of water. They are
very thin (front to back) too. It's sick.


That's why I'm saying SOMEONE should do something, start something to change
the laws like they did with hookbill birds in some states.!!! I'm serious
about that. It kills my soul to see GF sold with those small 1 gallon
bowls. They have no chance at all...... NONE!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Azoo-Betta-Fish-...QQcmdZViewItem


Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
Reading Headers:
http://www.technomom.com/writing/headers.shtml
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o



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Old 28-01-2006, 10:19 PM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc,rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,alt.aquaria
Tynk
 
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Default How much aeration needed?


Koi-lo wrote:
"Tynk" wrote in message
oups.com...

Koi-lo wrote:
"Tynk" wrote in message
oups.com...
How do you make sure everyone who
buys your bettas provides them with live plants and gravel?


you are selling such cruel things and walked
out.
He knew better too. He's a local shop trying to compete with the chains
around him and I'm sorry, but he could have done better than that.
There's many 1g set ups with even a light that he could have sold for
less money than he was selling these torture chambers for.

I don't see any of those here.


Oh my..you've never seen these little plastic things with about 2-3
ounces of water to them..


No. I see the small ones that hold 8oz. That the smallest so far.

Hold on I am off to look for a link for you.
You won't believe your eyes.


Geeze, smaller than 8 oz???? :-(

Azoo is the comany that makes them. PenPlax alsomakes similar ones.
They do get small than what is in this picture, but without anything to
compare size to you really aren't going to see how very small these
things can get.
I've seen them smaller than what's in this link.


I just checked your link. No, I haven't seen them here. The smallest are
the tiny ivy bowls that hold about 8oz of water. Also some plastic tacky
trashy looking stuff that holds 8 to 10 oz. for bettas.

Azoo.com isn't up and running right now, I've been trying for half an
hour and still it's down.
PetCo likes to carry these things, but doesn't offer them on their
website.


Hummm....... ok I seldom go there because the PH is too low there and I
lose too many fish. Also, it's far.

It depends on the individual stores who carries these.
Some are only going to hold a couple to a few ounces of water. They are
very thin (front to back) too. It's sick.


That's why I'm saying SOMEONE should do something, start something to change
the laws like they did with hookbill birds in some states.!!! I'm serious
about that. It kills my soul to see GF sold with those small 1 gallon
bowls. They have no chance at all...... NONE!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Azoo-Betta-Fish-...QQcmdZViewItem


Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
Reading Headers:
http://www.technomom.com/writing/headers.shtml
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o


Pardon my confusion, but you recently attacked me on the Goldfish
Question thread about this very thing.
Now having laws is a good thing and somebody should do something?
Can you see my confusion about your comment. Here somebody SHOULD do
something about making laws, and on another thread you used that
against somebody.

As for the 8 oz ones...that isn't what I'm talking about. They get much
smaller than that.
I not kidding either, they couldn't hold more than 3 oz of water.
They're also about as wide as a grown male's body, and probably 1 1/2"
-2" deep.
These things are so abusive it boggles my mind at how they could be
legal.
But without any control or laws ifyou will, in the hobby it's like
anything goes...even if it kills the fish. They show some of these
things with fish in them that don't have labyrinth organs, so you know
they'll be dead very soon of suffocation.
I've seen these other things that are just as bad too.
They look like a bowl, but are like 3/4 - 1" deep (front to back). A
Betta would have to curl up on it's own body just to turn around.
While looking for a good link about those other death traps I told you
about I saw one of these and they had hooked up so it swings back and
forth!!
Can you imagine the poor fish in this thing? I can't, but they're out
there and people are buying them.
It's sick.

I contacted the Meijer company (USA, and no not Fred Meyer, different
store), about their store brand 1g tank boxes showing like 8 Goldies in
the 1g tank and how bad that was becuase 1...they can't live in a 1g
tank like they are advertising and 2...people that don't know better
would use the picture as an example of what can be housed in that tank.
They have since changed the picture but sadly, it's still wrong. = (
I'm going there today and I'll have to see if they have any in stock
because I've forgotten what they used.
I've also asked them several times to stop having the buy one get one
free sale on male Bettas, as there are people do not know they cannot
be housed together.
They still have the sales. = ( It's all about the all mighty dollar.
That seems to always win.
You see Carol, I don't just sit here and not do anything about the poor
care, poor conditions, poor treatment, etc of the fish in this hobby,
(which you are under the impression I do).
I do a lot. I just don't always say so.



  #21   Report Post  
Old 29-01-2006, 04:39 AM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc,rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,alt.aquaria
Koi-lo
 
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Default How much aeration needed?


"Tynk" wrote in message
oups.com...

Koi-lo wrote:
That's why I'm saying SOMEONE should do something, start something to
change
the laws like they did with hookbill birds in some states.!!! I'm
serious
about that. It kills my soul to see GF sold with those small 1 gallon
bowls. They have no chance at all...... NONE!
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o


Pardon my confusion, but you recently attacked me on the Goldfish
Question thread about this very thing.


??? I am all for laws being passed to protect fish. One should force the
stores to hand out pamphlets with each fish giving information on the
nitrogen cycle and more..... so the fish have a better chance to survive.

Now having laws is a good thing and somebody should do something?
Can you see my confusion about your comment. Here somebody SHOULD do
something about making laws, and on another thread you used that
against somebody.


Huh? I have always believed laws should be passed to protect fish, small
animals such as hamsters etc. If the store can't get more for the fish then
they will go out of business. Without laws we have no way to force our
beliefs and humane views on them. Is it fair to them? I'm not sure
actually, since some are making it on a shoestring,... little profit. And
it would also force people to either spend more or bypass the fish hobby.
Many get hooked because of a fishbowl and GF... and move on up the ladder to
real tanks and more exotic fish. Those people may be lost to the hobby. So
what's fair then?

As for the 8 oz ones...that isn't what I'm talking about. They get much
smaller than that.
I not kidding either, they couldn't hold more than 3 oz of water.
They're also about as wide as a grown male's body, and probably 1 1/2"
-2" deep.
These things are so abusive it boggles my mind at how they could be
legal.


I have not seen them here, or have seen them and didn't realize they were
for bettas.

But without any control or laws ifyou will, in the hobby it's like
anything goes...even if it kills the fish. They show some of these
things with fish in them that don't have labyrinth organs, so you know
they'll be dead very soon of suffocation.


Which stores have you seen them in? I haven't been in Petco in awhile. The
chains I frequent most are SuperPets, PetSupermarket and PetsMart. Pettown
went out of business here last fall. The next time I hit these stores I am
going to LOOK for these tiny betta bowls.

I've seen these other things that are just as bad too.
They look like a bowl, but are like 3/4 - 1" deep (front to back). A
Betta would have to curl up on it's own body just to turn around.


What you're describing are really over the top....... :-( You would
think common sense would tell the person they're cruel.

While looking for a good link about those other death traps I told you
about I saw one of these and they had hooked up so it swings back and
forth!!
Can you imagine the poor fish in this thing? I can't, but they're out
there and people are buying them.
It's sick.


Have you seen the small betta globes that are desk LAMPS???? You actually
screw the betta bowl into the socket holder somehow. I couldn't believe my
eyes! And there the fish hangs being cooked by the light and being blinded
at the same time.

I contacted the Meijer company (USA, and no not Fred Meyer, different
store), about their store brand 1g tank boxes showing like 8 Goldies in
the 1g tank and how bad that was becuase 1...they can't live in a 1g
tank like they are advertising and 2...people that don't know better
would use the picture as an example of what can be housed in that tank.
They have since changed the picture but sadly, it's still wrong. = (


I know the feeling. It's like beating your head against a brick wall.

I'm going there today and I'll have to see if they have any in stock
because I've forgotten what they used.
I've also asked them several times to stop having the buy one get one
free sale on male Bettas, as there are people do not know they cannot
be housed together.


Do you know that some clerks (in NYC) are selling people a PAIR of bettas
for those little bowls? Yes, a PAIR to put in one bowl. I just heard about
it last week. Think shredded fins, fungus, bacterial infections and certain
death if not for both, surely one.

They still have the sales. = ( It's all about the all mighty dollar.
That seems to always win.
You see Carol, I don't just sit here and not do anything about the poor
care, poor conditions, poor treatment, etc of the fish in this hobby,
(which you are under the impression I do).
I do a lot. I just don't always say so.


Well SHARE as it encourages others to at least try to do the same........
BTW the managers in the local Wal*Mart stores cringe when they see me
heading for their pet depts. But there have been vast improvements. ;-)
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
Reading Headers:
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  #22   Report Post  
Old 29-01-2006, 06:16 AM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc,rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,alt.aquaria
Frank
 
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Default How much aeration needed?

Elaine T wrote,
The only place long, fluffy
hair algae grows in my whiskey barrel pond is in part of one barrel
where the water is relatively still for the water lily.


Hair algae is primarily a problem when there is excess iron in the
water. Your water come from a well (?), or you might try reducing the
dosage of fertilizers containing iron.

I have clumps of java fern sitting in the filter outlet, and
they grow faster than the java fern on the other side of the tank.


In low nitrAte situations, along with algaes, some plants can get its
nitrogen from the air. Under a water return location, I can see where
it can get its nitrogen from the air.

I generally put crypts in moving water too, since all the pictures I've
seen of them in nature is bent over from the current in fast-flowing
streams. They seem to do fine that way.


I didn't say _all_ plants do better in slow flowing or still water - I
said _most_ plants......
I didn't say _all_ algaes do better in a turbulent enviroment, but most
do. Both blue-green slime algae and hair algae does great where there
is little to nill water movement. ................. Frank

  #23   Report Post  
Old 29-01-2006, 09:43 AM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc,rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,alt.aquaria
Cliff L
 
Posts: n/a
Default How much aeration needed?

It's more natural than a plain glass bottom.

True, but I wonder how common a gravel subtrate is
for aquarium fish in the wild, as opposed to mud or
larger river stones.

Cliff

  #24   Report Post  
Old 29-01-2006, 06:40 PM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc,rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,alt.aquaria
Koi-lo
 
Posts: n/a
Default How much aeration needed?


"Cliff L" wrote in message
oups.com...
It's more natural than a plain glass bottom.


True, but I wonder how common a gravel subtrate is
for aquarium fish in the wild, as opposed to mud or
larger river stones.

======================
That depends where you live. Here the river bottoms are covered with stones
and pebbles of various sizes, the soil washed downstream ages ago. On L.I.
the ponds and inlets were sand, pebbles and stones. The lake here has a
mud and rock bottom.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
Reading Headers:
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  #25   Report Post  
Old 29-01-2006, 07:17 PM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc,rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,alt.aquaria
Gill Passman
 
Posts: n/a
Default How much aeration needed?

Koi-lo wrote:

"Cliff L" wrote in message
oups.com...

It's more natural than a plain glass bottom.



True, but I wonder how common a gravel subtrate is
for aquarium fish in the wild, as opposed to mud or
larger river stones.


======================
That depends where you live. Here the river bottoms are covered with
stones and pebbles of various sizes, the soil washed downstream ages
ago. On L.I. the ponds and inlets were sand, pebbles and stones. The
lake here has a mud and rock bottom.


If memory serves me rightly, the bottom of the Thames is squidgy mud
with the odd bit of stone/gravel but predominately mud...used to get
stuck between your toes - lol. It was a long time ago when I was mad
enough to swim in there but I'm pretty sure that it won't have changed
much....



  #26   Report Post  
Old 29-01-2006, 09:03 PM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc,rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,alt.aquaria
Koi-lo
 
Posts: n/a
Default How much aeration needed?


"Gill Passman" wrote in message
.. .
Koi-lo wrote:

"Cliff L" wrote in message
oups.com...

It's more natural than a plain glass bottom.


True, but I wonder how common a gravel subtrate is
for aquarium fish in the wild, as opposed to mud or
larger river stones.


======================
That depends where you live. Here the river bottoms are covered with
stones and pebbles of various sizes, the soil washed downstream ages ago.
On L.I. the ponds and inlets were sand, pebbles and stones. The lake
here has a mud and rock bottom.


If memory serves me rightly, the bottom of the Thames is squidgy mud with
the odd bit of stone/gravel but predominately mud...used to get stuck
between your toes - lol. It was a long time ago when I was mad enough to
swim in there but I'm pretty sure that it won't have changed much....

======================
Your Thames then is much like our Hudson and East Rivers in NYC. Those
rivers have a sludge over the soil and whatever boulders, stones and pebbles
are there. You can well call it squidgy mud. And we have trash! Ugh,
trash of every description from broken bottles to used baby diapers in those
rivers. Very nasty stuff you don't even want to put your feet in.... :
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
Reading Headers:
http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o



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Old 29-01-2006, 10:08 PM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc,rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,alt.aquaria
Gill Passman
 
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Default How much aeration needed?

Koi-lo wrote:

"Gill Passman" wrote in message
.. .

Koi-lo wrote:


"Cliff L" wrote in message
oups.com...

It's more natural than a plain glass bottom.



True, but I wonder how common a gravel subtrate is
for aquarium fish in the wild, as opposed to mud or
larger river stones.


======================
That depends where you live. Here the river bottoms are covered with
stones and pebbles of various sizes, the soil washed downstream ages
ago. On L.I. the ponds and inlets were sand, pebbles and stones.
The lake here has a mud and rock bottom.



If memory serves me rightly, the bottom of the Thames is squidgy mud
with the odd bit of stone/gravel but predominately mud...used to get
stuck between your toes - lol. It was a long time ago when I was mad
enough to swim in there but I'm pretty sure that it won't have changed
much....


======================
Your Thames then is much like our Hudson and East Rivers in NYC. Those
rivers have a sludge over the soil and whatever boulders, stones and
pebbles are there. You can well call it squidgy mud. And we have
trash! Ugh, trash of every description from broken bottles to used baby
diapers in those rivers. Very nasty stuff you don't even want to put
your feet in.... :


The Thames has been through some major clean ups but I rather fancy the
seventies were the hay day in terms of safety for swimming (not that it
was safe we just didn't know any better)...I wouldn't let my kids swim
there now but that might also be down to us understanding the dangers of
swimming in a river such as the Thames with all its currents without
considering toxicity which I don't really believe is a major issue these
days...There is no real junk issue in the Thames or the majority of our
major rivers...trash in the odd pond/lake/river/stream - yes it
happens...but the environmental people are so much on the case now that
it is the exception rather than the rule....

Gill
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Old 30-01-2006, 02:05 AM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc,rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,alt.aquaria
Richard Sexton
 
Posts: n/a
Default How much aeration needed?

In article .com,
Cliff L wrote:
It's more natural than a plain glass bottom.


True, but I wonder how common a gravel subtrate is
for aquarium fish in the wild, as opposed to mud or
larger river stones.


People poeple... are we losing sight of the unnaturallness of those
glass walls?

How many rivrs have glass walls and welding tanks and shop lights
(has a quick look in the backyard) none here... anyone?


--
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  #29   Report Post  
Old 30-01-2006, 04:31 AM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc,rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,alt.aquaria
Koi-lo
 
Posts: n/a
Default How much aeration needed?


"Richard Sexton" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
Cliff L wrote:
It's more natural than a plain glass bottom.


True, but I wonder how common a gravel subtrate is
for aquarium fish in the wild, as opposed to mud or
larger river stones.


People poeple... are we losing sight of the unnaturallness of those
glass walls?

How many rivrs have glass walls and welding tanks and shop lights
(has a quick look in the backyard) none here... anyone?

==========================
I think the fish are more comfortable with something natural such as gravel,
sand or pebbles on the bottom of their tanks than bare glass. Others may
disagree of course. Whatever works for you and your particular fish. :-)
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o



  #30   Report Post  
Old 30-01-2006, 07:44 AM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc,rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,alt.aquaria
Elaine T
 
Posts: n/a
Default How much aeration needed?

Frank wrote:
Elaine T wrote,

The only place long, fluffy
hair algae grows in my whiskey barrel pond is in part of one barrel
where the water is relatively still for the water lily.



Hair algae is primarily a problem when there is excess iron in the
water. Your water come from a well (?), or you might try reducing the
dosage of fertilizers containing iron.


I have clumps of java fern sitting in the filter outlet, and
they grow faster than the java fern on the other side of the tank.



In low nitrAte situations, along with algaes, some plants can get its
nitrogen from the air. Under a water return location, I can see where
it can get its nitrogen from the air.


I generally put crypts in moving water too, since all the pictures I've
seen of them in nature is bent over from the current in fast-flowing
streams. They seem to do fine that way.



I didn't say _all_ plants do better in slow flowing or still water - I
said _most_ plants......
I didn't say _all_ algaes do better in a turbulent enviroment, but most
do. Both blue-green slime algae and hair algae does great where there
is little to nill water movement. ................. Frank


Fair enough. ;-) BGA loves a quiet spot, like between the glass and
the gravel! The tank with the java fern is fairly low nitrate, so the
filter return makes sense. There would also be the most freshly
dissolved CO2 there, come to think of it. It's a Flourish Excel tank so
atmospheric CO2 is going to be an important carbon source.

I'm aware of problems with algae and iron. I'm going pretty low on the
iron ferts outdoors right now because nothing is growing very fast. My
tapwater tests zero for iron - I'll give the pondwater a test and see if
anything has accumulated anyway. Thanks for the idea!

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com


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