I've worked in the pesticide industry for several years now and would
like to not that Diazinon is the LAST chemical that would be used for
grub control. Diazinon when used to kill grubs has to be used at
extreamly high concentrations and also Diazinon is usually only about
50-60% effective. We now use merit which is several times safer and
over 90% effective ourselves. I don't think however that is it
available to the general public.
Diazinon is part of the Organophosphates family of pesticides and is a
irreversible ChE inhibitor it attacks the cyatic nerve. Which is why
we prefer not to use it often while the amount required to harm
anything other than insects is quite high repeated exposure is not
recomended.

"John S. DeBoo" wrote in message ...
Yes, Diazinon can be purchased at probably any place that carries bug killers
etc, certainly at Home Depot etc. For lawn control you'll mix several
tablespoons (read directions carefully) with water in a garden hose sprayer, then
spray that diluted mixture (which gets diluted even more since its now mixing
with the water in the hose) all over the lawn and water profusely. Diazinon is
strong stuff and depending upon the mixture (dilution) used can be used for all
manner of bug control. I hate using chemicles myself but sometimes they really
do the trick.

Heather wrote:

Never heard of this stuff before....Is this something that you can get at
the store? like Home Depot, Canadian Tire, or local Garden Center or
something like that? Does it harm the flowers in a flower bed? My grass
buts up against some fairly new planting beds in the front and backyards and
would hate to kill off all the planting I did last year.

Thanks for your advice
Heather
Zone 6 - Toronto, Canada

"John S. DeBoo" wrote in message
...
Heather wrote:

I noticed grubs in our lawn and garden last year. What is the best way
to
get rid of these without hiring the professionals. I live in Toronto
Canada
and we are covered by snow right now but want to get a start to solving
the
problem once it's gone if possible.

WE had them in our lawn in Albuquerque and I used Diazinon. After
dilutinbg with
water and spreading with a hose sprayer you need to water profusely so it
soaks
down intot he soil where these miserable critters live. I've yet to find
a grub
in our lawn since and we treated ours maybe 10 years ago. Thats my
experience
anyway.

I thought the trade name Oftanol was used for grubs in turf. I may have not
spelled it correctly, but I seem to recall that product in my readings over the
years.


On 11 Apr 2003 04:26:05 -0700, (Ken) wrote:

I've worked in the pesticide industry for several years now and would
like to not that Diazinon is the LAST chemical that would be used for
grub control. Diazinon when used to kill grubs has to be used at
extreamly high concentrations and also Diazinon is usually only about
50-60% effective. We now use merit which is several times safer and
over 90% effective ourselves. I don't think however that is it
available to the general public.
Diazinon is part of the Organophosphates family of pesticides and is a
irreversible ChE inhibitor it attacks the cyatic nerve. Which is why
we prefer not to use it often while the amount required to harm
anything other than insects is quite high repeated exposure is not
recomended.

"John S. DeBoo" wrote in message ...
Yes, Diazinon can be purchased at probably any place that carries bug killers
etc, certainly at Home Depot etc. For lawn control you'll mix several
tablespoons (read directions carefully) with water in a garden hose sprayer, then
spray that diluted mixture (which gets diluted even more since its now mixing
with the water in the hose) all over the lawn and water profusely. Diazinon is
strong stuff and depending upon the mixture (dilution) used can be used for all
manner of bug control. I hate using chemicles myself but sometimes they really
do the trick.

Heather wrote:

Never heard of this stuff before....Is this something that you can get at
the store? like Home Depot, Canadian Tire, or local Garden Center or
something like that? Does it harm the flowers in a flower bed? My grass
buts up against some fairly new planting beds in the front and backyards and
would hate to kill off all the planting I did last year.

Thanks for your advice
Heather
Zone 6 - Toronto, Canada

"John S. DeBoo" wrote in message
...
Heather wrote:

I noticed grubs in our lawn and garden last year. What is the best way
to
get rid of these without hiring the professionals. I live in Toronto
Canada
and we are covered by snow right now but want to get a start to solving
the
problem once it's gone if possible.

WE had them in our lawn in Albuquerque and I used Diazinon. After
dilutinbg with
water and spreading with a hose sprayer you need to water profusely so it
soaks
down intot he soil where these miserable critters live. I've yet to find
a grub
in our lawn since and we treated ours maybe 10 years ago. Thats my
experience
anyway.

Diazinon is now a restricted pesticide because of its high potential for human
toxicity, not to mention other environmental concerns. As of 2002, it can no longer
be marketed to retailers for residential use, although some product may still remain
on store shelves, but by August of this year even those must be removed and
destroyed. I certainly would not recommend anyone consider using this product, even
if you can find it on store shelves. Grub control can easily be accomplished by
other, less toxic means such as better cultural care and benenficial nematodes.

pam - gardengal


"John S. DeBoo" wrote:

Yes, Diazinon can be purchased at probably any place that carries bug killers
etc, certainly at Home Depot etc. For lawn control you'll mix several
tablespoons (read directions carefully) with water in a garden hose sprayer, then
spray that diluted mixture (which gets diluted even more since its now mixing
with the water in the hose) all over the lawn and water profusely. Diazinon is
strong stuff and depending upon the mixture (dilution) used can be used for all
manner of bug control. I hate using chemicles myself but sometimes they really
do the trick.

Heather wrote:

Never heard of this stuff before....Is this something that you can get at
the store? like Home Depot, Canadian Tire, or local Garden Center or
something like that? Does it harm the flowers in a flower bed? My grass
buts up against some fairly new planting beds in the front and backyards and
would hate to kill off all the planting I did last year.

Thanks for your advice
Heather
Zone 6 - Toronto, Canada

"John S. DeBoo" wrote in message
...
Heather wrote:

I noticed grubs in our lawn and garden last year. What is the best way
to
get rid of these without hiring the professionals. I live in Toronto
Canada
and we are covered by snow right now but want to get a start to solving
the
problem once it's gone if possible.

WE had them in our lawn in Albuquerque and I used Diazinon. After
dilutinbg with
water and spreading with a hose sprayer you need to water profusely so it
soaks
down intot he soil where these miserable critters live. I've yet to find
a grub
in our lawn since and we treated ours maybe 10 years ago. Thats my
experience
anyway.

--
John S. DeBoo

I was at a local garden center today, and they had a display advising you to
incorporate diazinon in your onion set plantings, to control onion maggots.
Shudder Perhaps they were trying to clear inventory before the complete
ban goes into effect.

Sue

Zone 6, Southcentral PA


"Pam" wrote in message
...
Diazinon is now a restricted pesticide because of its high potential for
human
toxicity, not to mention other environmental concerns. As of 2002, it can
no longer
be marketed to retailers for residential use, although some product may
still remain
on store shelves, but by August of this year even those must be removed
and
destroyed. I certainly would not recommend anyone consider using this
product, even
if you can find it on store shelves. Grub control can easily be
accomplished by
other, less toxic means such as better cultural care and benenficial
nematodes.

pam - gardengal


"John S. DeBoo" wrote:

Yes, Diazinon can be purchased at probably any place that carries bug
killers
etc, certainly at Home Depot etc. For lawn control you'll mix several
tablespoons (read directions carefully) with water in a garden hose
sprayer, then
spray that diluted mixture (which gets diluted even more since its now
mixing
with the water in the hose) all over the lawn and water profusely.
Diazinon is
strong stuff and depending upon the mixture (dilution) used can be used
for all
manner of bug control. I hate using chemicles myself but sometimes they
really
do the trick.

Heather wrote:

Never heard of this stuff before....Is this something that you can get
at
the store? like Home Depot, Canadian Tire, or local Garden Center or
something like that? Does it harm the flowers in a flower bed? My
grass
buts up against some fairly new planting beds in the front and
backyards and
would hate to kill off all the planting I did last year.

Thanks for your advice
Heather
Zone 6 - Toronto, Canada

"John S. DeBoo" wrote in message
...
Heather wrote:

I noticed grubs in our lawn and garden last year. What is the
best way
to
get rid of these without hiring the professionals. I live in
Toronto
Canada
and we are covered by snow right now but want to get a start to
solving
the
problem once it's gone if possible.

WE had them in our lawn in Albuquerque and I used Diazinon. After
dilutinbg with
water and spreading with a hose sprayer you need to water profusely
so it
soaks
down intot he soil where these miserable critters live. I've yet to
find
a grub
in our lawn since and we treated ours maybe 10 years ago. Thats my
experience
anyway.

--
John S. DeBoo

Tom Jaszewski wrote:

On Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:31:05 -0600, "John S. DeBoo"
wrote:

We never noted a
decrease in the bird etc population nor any dead ones from it in our yard.

On the basis of your limited experience we should also kill our soil
and pollute or homes?

Is your name Richard? You sure act like a dick! I simply responded to someone elses query and gave my
experience trying to be helpful, nothing more, nothing less.

--
John S. DeBoo

Ken wrote:

I've worked in the pesticide industry for several years now and would
like to not that Diazinon is the LAST chemical that would be used for
grub control. Diazinon when used to kill grubs has to be used at
extreamly high concentrations and also Diazinon is usually only about
50-60% effective.

Thanks for your expertise, seriously. My mixture was 2-3 tbsp in a quart hose sprayer
that was filled with water, then of course diluted further when sprayed with the water
hose, then further diluted when watered all night long. Doesn't seem real strong but then
my knowledge of chemicals as compared to yours is far less. Thanks again for the info.

We now use merit which is several times safer and
over 90% effective ourselves. I don't think however that is it
available to the general public.

Hmmm, I wonder why? Probably can't figure out how much to charge the public I suppose or
its off the general market by agreement so that we can be overcharged by professionals.
Like a lot of other things anymore. I'm not in the least saying that Pros are unreliable,
do a poor job or are trying to shaft people, simply that its harder and harder for a DIYer
to save a few bucks anymore with this sort of stuff going on.

--
John S. DeBoo

On Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:13:58 -0600, "John S. DeBoo"
wrote:

I simply responded to someone elses query and gave my
experience

Doobee,

You represented a dangerous product as harmless! Very simple
observation ill founded observation contrary to fact.




"As crude a weapon as a cave man's club the chemical barrage has been hurled at the fabric of life."
Rachel Carson

On Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:23:03 -0600, "John S. DeBoo"
wrote:

Ken wrote:

I've worked in the pesticide industry for several years now and would
like to not that Diazinon is the LAST chemical that would be used for
grub control. Diazinon when used to kill grubs has to be used at
extreamly high concentrations and also Diazinon is usually only about
50-60% effective.

Thanks for your expertise, seriously. My mixture was 2-3 tbsp in a quart hose sprayer
that was filled with water, then of course diluted further when sprayed with the water
hose, then further diluted when watered all night long. Doesn't seem real strong but then
my knowledge of chemicals as compared to yours is far less. Thanks again for the info.

We now use merit which is several times safer and
over 90% effective ourselves. I don't think however that is it
available to the general public.

Hmmm, I wonder why? Probably can't figure out how much to charge the public I suppose or
its off the general market by agreement so that we can be overcharged by professionals.
Like a lot of other things anymore. I'm not in the least saying that Pros are unreliable,
do a poor job or are trying to shaft people, simply that its harder and harder for a DIYer
to save a few bucks anymore with this sort of stuff going on.


No gone cuz idiots make observations like, "not very strong" based
on incompetence in the use of dangerous chemicals. No "professional"
gardener needs to use Diazinon. Go back and read Pam's posts, she's
polite and takes the time to explain it to dunderheads with
conspiratorial theories.


"As crude a weapon as a cave man's club the chemical barrage has been hurled at the fabric of life."
Rachel Carson

Oh great!! Then I suppose they assume you are going to eat them??

SugarChile wrote:

I was at a local garden center today, and they had a display advising you to
incorporate diazinon in your onion set plantings, to control onion maggots.
Shudder Perhaps they were trying to clear inventory before the complete
ban goes into effect.

Sue

Zone 6, Southcentral PA

"Pam" wrote in message
...
Diazinon is now a restricted pesticide because of its high potential for
human
toxicity, not to mention other environmental concerns. As of 2002, it can
no longer
be marketed to retailers for residential use, although some product may
still remain
on store shelves, but by August of this year even those must be removed
and
destroyed. I certainly would not recommend anyone consider using this
product, even
if you can find it on store shelves. Grub control can easily be
accomplished by
other, less toxic means such as better cultural care and benenficial
nematodes.

pam - gardengal


"John S. DeBoo" wrote:

Yes, Diazinon can be purchased at probably any place that carries bug
killers
etc, certainly at Home Depot etc. For lawn control you'll mix several
tablespoons (read directions carefully) with water in a garden hose
sprayer, then
spray that diluted mixture (which gets diluted even more since its now
mixing
with the water in the hose) all over the lawn and water profusely.
Diazinon is
strong stuff and depending upon the mixture (dilution) used can be used
for all
manner of bug control. I hate using chemicles myself but sometimes they
really
do the trick.

Heather wrote:

Never heard of this stuff before....Is this something that you can get
at
the store? like Home Depot, Canadian Tire, or local Garden Center or
something like that? Does it harm the flowers in a flower bed? My
grass
buts up against some fairly new planting beds in the front and
backyards and
would hate to kill off all the planting I did last year.

Thanks for your advice
Heather
Zone 6 - Toronto, Canada

"John S. DeBoo" wrote in message
...
Heather wrote:

I noticed grubs in our lawn and garden last year. What is the
best way
to
get rid of these without hiring the professionals. I live in
Toronto
Canada
and we are covered by snow right now but want to get a start to
solving
the
problem once it's gone if possible.

WE had them in our lawn in Albuquerque and I used Diazinon. After
dilutinbg with
water and spreading with a hose sprayer you need to water profusely
so it
soaks
down intot he soil where these miserable critters live. I've yet to
find
a grub
in our lawn since and we treated ours maybe 10 years ago. Thats my
experience
anyway.

--
John S. DeBoo

"John S. DeBoo" wrote:

We now use merit which is several times safer and
over 90% effective ourselves. I don't think however that is it
available to the general public.

Hmmm, I wonder why? Probably can't figure out how much to charge the public I suppose or
its off the general market by agreement so that we can be overcharged by professionals.
Like a lot of other things anymore. I'm not in the least saying that Pros are unreliable,
do a poor job or are trying to shaft people, simply that its harder and harder for a DIYer
to save a few bucks anymore with this sort of stuff going on.

Merit is certainly available for residential use. It is the trade name for imidacloprid, a
chloronicotynil class of pesticides derived from nicotine sulfate. It is a neurotoxin which
disrupts the nervous system of the insect, primarily paralyzing the mouth parts and resulting
in starvation. It is registered for the control of various lawn grubs, among other insect
problems. While this product has been found to be of relatively low toxicity to mammals, it is
wise to keep in mind that nicotine is a pretty potent organic poison.

I can certainly understand your desire to control insect problems that plague your lawn, but
there is a much bigger picture to consider. The widespread use of pesticides is pretty recent
in the overall scheme of things (since WWII) and there has only begun to be sufficient time to
determine the long term impact many common pesticides have on environmental health and
personal safety. That is why many formerly common and so-called 'safe' or low toxicity
pesticides have now been pulled from residential use by the EPA - they have only recently
determined that many of these have long term accumulative and negative implications on
environmental health. And homeowners tend to be largest misusers of pesticides - either
through ignorance, apathy or overuse.

For homeowners (and environmentally responsible professionals) it is always preferrable to
attempt to control insect and disease problems via the least toxic and intrusive methods,
i.e., natural controls. There is a heirarchy of stages of control one should proceed with:
* tolerance - learning to live with the problem or understanding what the appropriate damage
threshold is (a reasonable percentage of insect damage or disease)
*cultural - making sure soil and growing conditions are optimum
*biological - using beneficial insects or other organisms
*natural or organic controls - pesticides which are derived from substances found in nature
(this is no guarantee against toxicity, however)
*chemical controls - manufactured pesticides, eg. Diazinon

You'll notice that chemical controls are at the bottom of the hierarchy, indicating they
should be used as a last resort, only after other methods have failed to succeed. When you
find that it is necessary to resort to any registered pesticide (including natural ones), it
is of utmost importance that you read the label carefully and thoroughly and follow the
directions to the letter. And personally, I would read whatever information I could find from
any reputable scientific source (that does NOT include the manufacturer) that provided me with
any additional information on the product in question before making a final decision for use.

The times, they are a changing!

pam - gardengal

On Sat, 12 Apr 2003 03:24:05 GMT, Pam wrote:

The times, they are a changing!

pam - gardengal


and as usual you do a stellar job of explaining it. (even if you do
allow nasty Merit for poor ornamental gardeners)


Regards,
Dick




"As crude a weapon as a cave man's club the chemical barrage has been hurled at the fabric of life."
Rachel Carson

Tom Jaszewski wrote:

On Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:23:03 -0600, "John S. DeBoo"
wrote:

Ken wrote:

I've worked in the pesticide industry for several years now and would
like to not that Diazinon is the LAST chemical that would be used for
grub control. Diazinon when used to kill grubs has to be used at
extreamly high concentrations and also Diazinon is usually only about
50-60% effective.

Thanks for your expertise, seriously. My mixture was 2-3 tbsp in a quart hose sprayer
that was filled with water, then of course diluted further when sprayed with the water
hose, then further diluted when watered all night long. Doesn't seem real strong but then
my knowledge of chemicals as compared to yours is far less. Thanks again for the info.

We now use merit which is several times safer and
over 90% effective ourselves. I don't think however that is it
available to the general public.

Hmmm, I wonder why? Probably can't figure out how much to charge the public I suppose or
its off the general market by agreement so that we can be overcharged by professionals.
Like a lot of other things anymore. I'm not in the least saying that Pros are unreliable,
do a poor job or are trying to shaft people, simply that its harder and harder for a DIYer
to save a few bucks anymore with this sort of stuff going on.

No gone cuz idiots make observations like, "not very strong" based
on incompetence in the use of dangerous chemicals. No "professional"
gardener needs to use Diazinon. Go back and read Pam's posts, she's
polite and takes the time to explain it to dunderheads with
conspiratorial theories.

I don't know what your problem is but I'll bet its hard to pronounce.

Bye bye Tommy... time to take your meds...

--
John S. DeBoo

Pam wrote:

snip
Merit is certainly available for residential use. It is the trade name for imidacloprid, a
chloronicotynil class of pesticides derived from nicotine sulfate. It is a neurotoxin which
disrupts the nervous system of the insect, primarily paralyzing the mouth parts and resulting
in starvation. It is registered for the control of various lawn grubs, among other insect
problems.

Thank you also for your knowledge. The last time I used Diazinon was maybe 15 years ago for the
grubs. Unknown what else was available then, or now really since they are no longer present in my
lawn. I used what was recommended then and it worked. If they ever come back I'll do a lot more
research first.


--
John S. DeBoo

I have read somewhere that street lights and perhaps home security lights
may increase the number of grubs in one's lawn since the adults are
attracted to the lights. Can anyone confirm this?

Regards,

Joe Morris

Please remove ZAP to email me.

"John S. DeBoo" wrote in message
...
Pam wrote:

snip
Merit is certainly available for residential use. It is the trade name
for imidacloprid, a
chloronicotynil class of pesticides derived from nicotine sulfate. It is
a neurotoxin which
disrupts the nervous system of the insect, primarily paralyzing the
mouth parts and resulting
in starvation. It is registered for the control of various lawn grubs,
among other insect
problems.

Thank you also for your knowledge. The last time I used Diazinon was
maybe 15 years ago for the
grubs. Unknown what else was available then, or now really since they are
no longer present in my
lawn. I used what was recommended then and it worked. If they ever come
back I'll do a lot more
research first.


--
John S. DeBoo

Joe Morris wrote:

I have read somewhere that street lights and perhaps home security lights
may increase the number of grubs in one's lawn since the adults are
attracted to the lights. Can anyone confirm this?

Can't confirm or deny but we've had a street light on our property line for 5-6
years now and I've yet to find a grub in my lawn.

"John S. DeBoo" wrote in message
...
Pam wrote:

snip
Merit is certainly available for residential use. It is the trade name
for imidacloprid, a
chloronicotynil class of pesticides derived from nicotine sulfate. It is
a neurotoxin which
disrupts the nervous system of the insect, primarily paralyzing the
mouth parts and resulting
in starvation. It is registered for the control of various lawn grubs,
among other insect
problems.

Thank you also for your knowledge. The last time I used Diazinon was
maybe 15 years ago for the
grubs. Unknown what else was available then, or now really since they are
no longer present in my
lawn. I used what was recommended then and it worked. If they ever come
back I'll do a lot more
research first.


--
John S. DeBoo







--
John S. DeBoo