My neighbor's lawn looks very sad and neglected. It is full of dandelions and
about
30 percent is missing any grass. Also, it is not level. He is thinking of
having the entire thing dug up and laying down sod. Is this overkill, or can he
find a way of first
killing the dandelions, and then somehow leveling the lawn and planting seed?

Sherwin D.

What zone? How big of an area?

In my area Z5b many lawns were lost to the drought last year (that BS
about never watering as the lawn will come back is well, BS).
Currently I see both reseeding bare spots and completely digging up and
reseeding. I haven't seen anyone go the sod route yet, but I've only
looked in a two block area. Eight new lawns or partial reseeding
going on. Looks like a minefield around here LOL. As for me, I'm
digging up and reseeding the parkways (corner house). Had 4 trees
removed, 6 put in and the lawn was a mess before hand. Much worse
afterwards. I'm starting from seed, not sod. In the fall the front
yard will probably be sodded. Getting kind of late to start from
seeds, but I lucked out with some extended cool/rainy weather. Now
to dig up another 4 or 5 wheelbarrows full of old tree roots on the
remaining section of the parkway.

Your question sounds like six of one thing - a half dozen of another;-)
Both will take a lot of work one way or another, have an expense, and
hopefully a result.

I must say that rolled sod looks so beautiful when completed though.
Also, I've seen people go through all the trouble of leveling killing
weeds, reseeding, only to have more weeds come up as lawn. Sod is more
of a guarantee!

Myrl Jeffcoat
http://www.myrljeffcoat.com

This is zone 5, just NW of Chicago.

The lawn is a front yard about 40 feet by 25 feet. My neighbor has neglected it
for
several years, which includes not watering it last year. It's amazing that he
even has
any grass left, at all. His biggest problem are dandelions (also my problem, as
they
blow their seeds onto my lawn). The rest you already know.

Sherwin D.

wrote:

What zone? How big of an area?

In my area Z5b many lawns were lost to the drought last year (that BS
about never watering as the lawn will come back is well, BS).
Currently I see both reseeding bare spots and completely digging up and
reseeding. I haven't seen anyone go the sod route yet, but I've only
looked in a two block area. Eight new lawns or partial reseeding
going on. Looks like a minefield around here LOL. As for me, I'm
digging up and reseeding the parkways (corner house). Had 4 trees
removed, 6 put in and the lawn was a mess before hand. Much worse
afterwards. I'm starting from seed, not sod. In the fall the front
yard will probably be sodded. Getting kind of late to start from
seeds, but I lucked out with some extended cool/rainy weather. Now
to dig up another 4 or 5 wheelbarrows full of old tree roots on the
remaining section of the parkway.

Based on location, it's approaching the tail end of the best time for
starting grass, which would be MY first choice. If it works, it's much
cheaper than sod. But, it would require cultivating the soil and weeding,
followed by judicious watering. Grass seed should be kept moist pretty much
all the time. Another option would be to use that fluffy stuff - the mulch
mixed with seed that you see road crews use after construction. As far as
the dandelions, if you wait 24 hours after a good rain or watering, they're
not so hard to remove by hand, if you have the right tool.

I'd avoid chemicals entirely, but that's just me. That crap goes into the
ground, and into someone's water eventually. Not "no place", as some
believe.

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
This is zone 5, just NW of Chicago.

The lawn is a front yard about 40 feet by 25 feet. My neighbor has
neglected it
for
several years, which includes not watering it last year. It's amazing
that he
even has
any grass left, at all. His biggest problem are dandelions (also my
problem, as
they
blow their seeds onto my lawn). The rest you already know.

Sherwin D.

wrote:

What zone? How big of an area?

In my area Z5b many lawns were lost to the drought last year (that BS
about never watering as the lawn will come back is well, BS).
Currently I see both reseeding bare spots and completely digging up and
reseeding. I haven't seen anyone go the sod route yet, but I've only
looked in a two block area. Eight new lawns or partial reseeding
going on. Looks like a minefield around here LOL. As for me, I'm
digging up and reseeding the parkways (corner house). Had 4 trees
removed, 6 put in and the lawn was a mess before hand. Much worse
afterwards. I'm starting from seed, not sod. In the fall the front
yard will probably be sodded. Getting kind of late to start from
seeds, but I lucked out with some extended cool/rainy weather. Now
to dig up another 4 or 5 wheelbarrows full of old tree roots on the
remaining section of the parkway.

sherwindu wrote:
This is zone 5, just NW of Chicago.

The lawn is a front yard about 40 feet by 25 feet. My neighbor has neglected it
for
several years, which includes not watering it last year. It's amazing that he
even has
any grass left, at all. His biggest problem are dandelions (also my problem, as
they
blow their seeds onto my lawn). The rest you already know.

Sherwin D.

I'm in a SW Chicago burb and if you're area is getting the same rains
we are the soil will be quite muddy right about now. The only quick
suggestion I could give yah is to at least cut the dandelion flowers
off, although most have most likely gone to seed. At this point of
the game you may want to wait until fall for the lawn, given the soil
may not be workable for another week or so. I'm in a bind on the
remaining parkway as the grass has already been dug up but the soil
hasn't been tilled (still way too many surface (tree) roots). No way
could I till the mud anyway but will at least try to seed and hope ma
nature doesn't through sunny skies and 90 degrees at us within the next
two weeks. I do have straw to throw over the seed to protect it
somewhat.

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
This is zone 5, just NW of Chicago.

The lawn is a front yard about 40 feet by 25 feet. My neighbor has
neglected it
for
several years, which includes not watering it last year. It's amazing
that he
even has
any grass left, at all. His biggest problem are dandelions (also my
problem, as
they
blow their seeds onto my lawn). The rest you already know.

That's only a thousand square feet. I would till it (rent a heavy duty
tiller), work in some compost, board it flat and and sod it.
Caveat - most sod is bluegrass, which likes sun and low traffic, so if the
space has traffic or is fairly shady, you either have to hunt for fescue sod
or plant grass seed.

If using grass seed - mixes are usually a blend of annual ryegrass, fescue,
and bluegrass.

According to an expert at the U, bluegrass needs 10-14 days of cool damp
weather to sprout. Fescue will sprout any time it gets steady moisture.
(That means if you plant a mix when it is warm, like later in the year, half
the seed is wasted.) In my experience, bluegrass and fescue both take to the
soil A LOT better if planted in the fall.

If you want to plant seed now - follow directions on the package.

If you can wait - (I used the following method on some really tough sandy
spots where spring planting didn't take -took first time and has been fine
ever since). You may have to buy the seed early and store it in a cool place
if your garden store doesn't have bulk seed in the fall.

Spray the weeds and after two weeks (depends on the weed killer), use a
dethatch machine with spring tines or similar to work the soil loose and
then seed in some annual ryegrass and fertilize and water it. Annual
ryegrass grows easily but only lasts a year.
Cut it long (3" plus) over the summer. Then in the fall after the frost
when the annual grass turns brown, cut it down to an inch and bag those dry
cuttings.

IF the old grass didn't come back, then go to the next step --
In late fall before a hard cold snap, shallow-till the old lawn up, smooth
it flat, and plant grass seed (you can spread the seed as the first big
snowstorm is just hours away) - use a mix of fescue and bluegrass - and
cover it with those ryegrass-hay clippings.
The snow will provide moisture for the grass to sprout, and it will grow
over the winter under the snow (very slowly), just like it does in nature.

--------

ALWAYS water bluegrass in the spring if the spring is unusually dry - NEVER
let bluegrass dry out badly before it has established itself for the year,
up to around June 1 here in zone 4, or it will die.
Bluegrass naturally goes dormant in July and turns a dull blue-grey. That
dormancy is normal and does not hurt it. In some areas, watering and
fertilizing it back awake into really hot weather can stress it.
In that dormant time, if it starts to turn from blue-grey to light grey
with light tan tips on the grass blades, or is dormant for more than a
couple weeks or it is really hot for weeks and it sits in direct sun,
watering is needed to keep it alive.


fwiw

Sherwin D.

wrote:

What zone? How big of an area?

In my area Z5b many lawns were lost to the drought last year (that BS
about never watering as the lawn will come back is well, BS).
Currently I see both reseeding bare spots and completely digging up and
reseeding. I haven't seen anyone go the sod route yet, but I've only
looked in a two block area. Eight new lawns or partial reseeding
going on. Looks like a minefield around here LOL. As for me, I'm
digging up and reseeding the parkways (corner house). Had 4 trees
removed, 6 put in and the lawn was a mess before hand. Much worse
afterwards. I'm starting from seed, not sod. In the fall the front
yard will probably be sodded. Getting kind of late to start from
seeds, but I lucked out with some extended cool/rainy weather. Now
to dig up another 4 or 5 wheelbarrows full of old tree roots on the
remaining section of the parkway.

On Fri, 12 May 2006 00:05:36 -0500, sherwindu wrote:
This is zone 5, just NW of Chicago.

The lawn is a front yard about 40 feet by 25 feet. My neighbor has neglected it
for
several years, which includes not watering it last year. It's amazing that he
even has
any grass left, at all. His biggest problem are dandelions (also my problem, as they

Don't worry about the dandelion seeds blowing your way... you've already
got a 75 year supply or so in your soil, waiting to germinate. Keep your
lawn in good condition (mow properly, overseed, fertilize and lime as
needed), and you don't have to worry. The big secret to weed prevention
is canopy closure. You could spread 5 lbs of weed seeds on an established,
well-taken-care-of lawn with good, dense sod and really not have to worry.

As for your neighbor, I would wait till fall to fix the lawn. You're really
out of the good seed/sod establishment times; late August to late September
is a much better bet. If he should till and try to sod this summer, he
should figure out how he's going to keep it watered all summer, because he'll
be doing it again if he doesn't water (an inch of water a week, 800 sq ft,
let's say for 15 weeks (assuming you don't have a drought this summer)
is 1000 cu ft or roughly 7500 gallons of water). Seed would also need to be
watered this summer, but your soil temps are probably getting high
enough that Ky bluegrass is out of optimum germ temperature by now (Iowa
girl, now out in PNW).

What I'd do now with a lawn in this shape is to get a soil sample sent
off for analysis, and consider how much to spend on it. Cheapest total
overhaul is to till, lime and fertilize and reseed with a well-adapted
type* this fall water as needed, and overseed more next spring if needed.
Next cheapest is to till now, solarize this summer, seed, lime, fertilize
and water next fall (if he's paranoid about the weed seeds in his soil).
More expensive options are to sod with either of these scenarios.

What I'd probably do, though, were this mine, would be to renovate
unless it was *so* bumpy I really felt I had to till and rake areas.
That involves soil test now, proper yard care this summer with some hand
weeding or spot spraying of perennial weeds only, and starting to fill
in the low spots with a mixture of sand and compost or sand, compost and
topsoil, 1/4" at a time, over the next few years. If there's a major
low spot, I'd till that only and spot seed that this fall, along with
overseeding the entire lawn this fall.

*well-adapted grasses. If this is a sunny lawn and you don't want to
mow often or water, I'd consider buffalo grass, Buchloe dactyloides,
for this lawn. Once established, it'll get along just fine, but it is
a warm season grass, green in the summer, dormant in cool seasons (opposite
the more commonly used Kentucky bluegrass or fescues.) If this route
is unappealing, I'd talk to extension, local parks, and local botanical
gardens for their recommendations for cultivars of low maintenance cool
season grasses. I'd also consider "high endophyte" fescues, because they
are naturally disease resistant.


--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth

You wouldn't believe how many dandelions are in his lawn. Removing each one
is an option, but not a pleasant one.

Doug Kanter wrote:

Based on location, it's approaching the tail end of the best time for
starting grass, which would be MY first choice. If it works, it's much
cheaper than sod. But, it would require cultivating the soil and weeding,
followed by judicious watering. Grass seed should be kept moist pretty much
all the time. Another option would be to use that fluffy stuff - the mulch
mixed with seed that you see road crews use after construction. As far as
the dandelions, if you wait 24 hours after a good rain or watering, they're
not so hard to remove by hand, if you have the right tool.

I'd avoid chemicals entirely, but that's just me. That crap goes into the
ground, and into someone's water eventually. Not "no place", as some
believe.

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
This is zone 5, just NW of Chicago.

The lawn is a front yard about 40 feet by 25 feet. My neighbor has
neglected it
for
several years, which includes not watering it last year. It's amazing
that he
even has
any grass left, at all. His biggest problem are dandelions (also my
problem, as
they
blow their seeds onto my lawn). The rest you already know.

Sherwin D.

wrote:

What zone? How big of an area?

In my area Z5b many lawns were lost to the drought last year (that BS
about never watering as the lawn will come back is well, BS).
Currently I see both reseeding bare spots and completely digging up and
reseeding. I haven't seen anyone go the sod route yet, but I've only
looked in a two block area. Eight new lawns or partial reseeding
going on. Looks like a minefield around here LOL. As for me, I'm
digging up and reseeding the parkways (corner house). Had 4 trees
removed, 6 put in and the lawn was a mess before hand. Much worse
afterwards. I'm starting from seed, not sod. In the fall the front
yard will probably be sodded. Getting kind of late to start from
seeds, but I lucked out with some extended cool/rainy weather. Now
to dig up another 4 or 5 wheelbarrows full of old tree roots on the
remaining section of the parkway.

Thanks for your extensive and informative reply.


Don't worry about the dandelion seeds blowing your way... you've already

got a 75 year supply or so in your soil, waiting to germinate.

That sound pretty scary, like a bomb ready to go off if I slip up on lawn maintenance.

Keep your
lawn in good condition (mow properly, overseed, fertilize and lime as
needed), and you don't have to worry. The big secret to weed prevention
is canopy closure. You could spread 5 lbs of weed seeds on an established,
well-taken-care-of lawn with good, dense sod and really not have to worry.

I like to think that my lawn is well taken care of, but I still have to do a morning patrol

and pull a handful of dandelions, some days worse than others.

Thanks also to hob for his lengthy reply,

Sherwin D.

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
You wouldn't believe how many dandelions are in his lawn. Removing each
one
is an option, but not a pleasant one.

nonesense, piffle and nonsense. Hours of entertainment out hand weeding
dandelions.

rob

if you think you lack motivation to do that I suggest you really **** your
wife off one weekend. Finding the motivation to hand grub weeds for hours
will not be hard.

I know. It's less fun than cleaning toilets. But, I've seen weeding tools
with long handles, so you can at least do part of the job standing up.

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
You wouldn't believe how many dandelions are in his lawn. Removing each
one
is an option, but not a pleasant one.

Doug Kanter wrote:

Based on location, it's approaching the tail end of the best time for
starting grass, which would be MY first choice. If it works, it's much
cheaper than sod. But, it would require cultivating the soil and weeding,
followed by judicious watering. Grass seed should be kept moist pretty
much
all the time. Another option would be to use that fluffy stuff - the
mulch
mixed with seed that you see road crews use after construction. As far as
the dandelions, if you wait 24 hours after a good rain or watering,
they're
not so hard to remove by hand, if you have the right tool.

I'd avoid chemicals entirely, but that's just me. That crap goes into the
ground, and into someone's water eventually. Not "no place", as some
believe.

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
This is zone 5, just NW of Chicago.

The lawn is a front yard about 40 feet by 25 feet. My neighbor has
neglected it
for
several years, which includes not watering it last year. It's amazing
that he
even has
any grass left, at all. His biggest problem are dandelions (also my
problem, as
they
blow their seeds onto my lawn). The rest you already know.

Sherwin D.

wrote:

What zone? How big of an area?

In my area Z5b many lawns were lost to the drought last year (that BS
about never watering as the lawn will come back is well, BS).
Currently I see both reseeding bare spots and completely digging up
and
reseeding. I haven't seen anyone go the sod route yet, but I've only
looked in a two block area. Eight new lawns or partial reseeding
going on. Looks like a minefield around here LOL. As for me, I'm
digging up and reseeding the parkways (corner house). Had 4 trees
removed, 6 put in and the lawn was a mess before hand. Much worse
afterwards. I'm starting from seed, not sod. In the fall the front
yard will probably be sodded. Getting kind of late to start from
seeds, but I lucked out with some extended cool/rainy weather. Now
to dig up another 4 or 5 wheelbarrows full of old tree roots on the
remaining section of the parkway.

On Sat, 13 May 2006 00:43:01 -0500, sherwindu wrote:
Don't worry about the dandelion seeds blowing your way... you've already

got a 75 year supply or so in your soil, waiting to germinate.

That sound pretty scary, like a bomb ready to go off if I slip up on lawn
maintenance.

I don't know about scary, but here's a couple of articles on weed seed banks
(the technical term for the seeds in the soil already):
http://www.weeds.iastate.edu/mgmt/qtr00-1/seedfate.htm
http://newsroom.msu.edu/site/indexer/672/content.htm
http://amos.indiana.edu/library/scripts/seeds.html

And yes, slipping up on lawn maintenance does lead to weedy lawns. Lawns
as envisioned here in the US are these perfect green carpets with nary a
weed in sight... and they're terribly wasteful of time and energy and
typically propped up by fairly heavy chemical use and watering. Choosing
well-adapted grass species (like buffalo grass) reduces all those inputs
greatly. Here's a buffalo grass lawn, for instance:
http://www.ext.colostate.edu/ptlk/1912a.html

Kay

--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth

If you think it is so much fun, I offer you an opportunity to come over here and
get
all the kicks you want, for free.

"George.com" wrote:

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
You wouldn't believe how many dandelions are in his lawn. Removing each
one
is an option, but not a pleasant one.

nonesense, piffle and nonsense. Hours of entertainment out hand weeding
dandelions.

rob

if you think you lack motivation to do that I suggest you really **** your
wife off one weekend. Finding the motivation to hand grub weeds for hours
will not be hard.