Jangchub wrote in
:

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 22:35:37 -0700, William Rose
wrote:

With all due respect, herbs can be extremely dangerous. I suggest
anyone thinking of using herbs for any reason, ingestion, smelling,
burning, eating, drinking the tea of, etc. needs to vigilantly
research all the implications invloved. Sometimes herbs oils can be
volitile and even effect your health systemically through skin. Just
be careful.


With all due respect, some people are very sensitive. The least little
artificial compound or odd protein can have catastrophic results for
some people but many plants have been used as medicines long before
modern pharmaceutical made their appearance. For sure, be careful,
check
out what you are ingesting and start small, but don't be paranoid. Long
before Merck, and Pfizer, mother nature provided our pharmaceutical
needs. It doesn't have to come in a bottle to be good for you.
- Bill
Cloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

How is what you said any different than what I said? I said for
people to check it out before just using herbs, thinking they are
perfectly safe because they grow in the garden. Most of our drugs
today are still made of plant extracts, including those of Merck and
Pfizer (whose stock I dumped a long time ago).

I wasn't inciting anyone to be paranoid, just that if someone says it
on the Internet, doesn't make it so and that includes what I say as
well.

I know someone who has a son and he heard he could trip on datura and
he ate some seeds, overdosed and is no catatonic. Oh, it's only a
herb. Pot is a herb, but it's illegal. Cocaine is a herb, also
illegal. You get my point and if not, that's okay too.


Kids (and dumb adults) getting hurt while trying to find a cheap high is
not new and it will keep happening as long as there are kids (and dumb
adults). I'll bet you anything the kid knew darned well there were
dangers and ignored them. Shit happens.

And as for all the caution warnings about herbs, well, anything can be
dangerous and/or deadly under the wrong circumstances. Water is both the
giver of life and deadly, too, for example. Should there be warnings on
your sink taps that say, "Danger: don't drink gallons and gallons of this
substance every day"? I think repeatedly warning adults about the danger
of over-doing anything is a little silly but I appreciate your good
intentions, nonetheless.

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:00:07 +0000 (UTC), EvilGoddessFragileWarrior
wrote:


And as for all the caution warnings about herbs, well, anything can be
dangerous and/or deadly under the wrong circumstances. Water is both the
giver of life and deadly, too, for example. Should there be warnings on
your sink taps that say, "Danger: don't drink gallons and gallons of this
substance every day"? I think repeatedly warning adults about the danger
of over-doing anything is a little silly but I appreciate your good
intentions, nonetheless.

You assume everyone in this newsgroup is an adult, dumb or not. There
are people who use many pesticides incorrectly and the label has
specific instructions. People do not read them. People get sick,
cancers, skin problems, etc. I'm glad you approve of my good
intentions, sheesh. Ma, is that you?

Jangchub wrote in
:

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:00:07 +0000 (UTC), EvilGoddessFragileWarrior
wrote:


And as for all the caution warnings about herbs, well, anything can be
dangerous and/or deadly under the wrong circumstances. Water is both
the giver of life and deadly, too, for example. Should there be
warnings on your sink taps that say, "Danger: don't drink gallons and
gallons of this substance every day"? I think repeatedly warning
adults about the danger of over-doing anything is a little silly but I
appreciate your good intentions, nonetheless.

You assume everyone in this newsgroup is an adult, dumb or not. There
are people who use many pesticides incorrectly and the label has
specific instructions. People do not read them. People get sick,
cancers, skin problems, etc. I'm glad you approve of my good
intentions, sheesh. Ma, is that you?


Nice.

I really wanted to say something stronger but decided a nicer approach
might work. Apparently I was wrong. Your constant lecturing is annoying
in the extreme. You are not the 'net police and it is not your
responsibility to constantly tell everyone how much smarter you are than
anyone else.

Give it a rest occasionally.

I was just wondering what your definition of 'herb' was - it is actually
quite a debate in the herbalist world.
Merry - Chartered Herbalist

Jangchub wrote:
On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:17:24 GMT, Merry wrote:

With all due respect, herbs can be extremely dangerous. I suggest
anyone thinking of using herbs for any reason, ingestion, smelling,
burning, eating, drinking the tea of, etc. needs to vigilantly
research all the implications invloved. Sometimes herbs oils can be
volitile and even effect your health systemically through skin. Just
be careful.

So- what do you classify as 'herb' ?

A herb is any plant which has a useful purpose outside of being
ornamental. A plant which either produces essential oils, has
medicinal properties, a plant to be used to make teas, infusions,
poltice or to cure or help symptoms of ill health.

A zinnia, for example, is not a herb. It is an ornamental annual.
That I know of, it has no other useful purpose other than to
butterflies and bees.

One of the best reference books is "A Modern Herbal." It used to be
in two volumes and is now in one volume full of fascinating
information.

In article ,
Jangchub wrote:

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 22:35:37 -0700, William Rose
wrote:

With all due respect, herbs can be extremely dangerous. I suggest
anyone thinking of using herbs for any reason, ingestion, smelling,
burning, eating, drinking the tea of, etc. needs to vigilantly
research all the implications invloved. Sometimes herbs oils can be
volitile and even effect your health systemically through skin. Just
be careful.


With all due respect, some people are very sensitive. The least little
artificial compound or odd protein can have catastrophic results for
some people but many plants have been used as medicines long before
modern pharmaceutical made their appearance. For sure, be careful, check
out what you are ingesting and start small, but don't be paranoid. Long
before Merck, and Pfizer, mother nature provided our pharmaceutical
needs. It doesn't have to come in a bottle to be good for you.
- Bill
Cloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

How is what you said any different than what I said? I said for
people to check it out before just using herbs, thinking they are
perfectly safe because they grow in the garden. Most of our drugs
today are still made of plant extracts, including those of Merck and
Pfizer (whose stock I dumped a long time ago).

I wasn't inciting anyone to be paranoid, just that if someone says it
on the Internet, doesn't make it so and that includes what I say as
well.

I know someone who has a son and he heard he could trip on datura and
he ate some seeds, overdosed and is no catatonic. Oh, it's only a
herb. Pot is a herb, but it's illegal. Cocaine is a herb, also
illegal. You get my point and if not, that's okay too.

I think we are all on the same page here. No offense was intended. I was
just trying to be supportive of Eve in cutting the pharmaceutical
umbilical cord.

Sometimes we do get blind-sided by plants, take lavender for example.
Turns out that compounds in lavender oil mimic estrogen and, in a few
cases, little boys have started growing breasts.
http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/jan2007/niehs-31.htm Gives me pause because I
have a nearly half a bottle left of lavender massage oil that I use on
my wife. (Could that be why those construction workers were looking at
me the other day? Naaa)

Speaking of dats. My brother had a drop of dew from a brugmansia flower
fall in his eye. His wife had to take him to the hospital when he
started feeling dizzy and his vision blurred. They gave him a shot of
something and, he was soon back up on his feet. He was a bit shaken by
the experience but, otherwise fine.

Marijuana has been illegal since 1933, when Elliot Ness & Co. suddenly
needed a "raison d'etre" due to the legalization of booze. No doubt
about it though, marijuana can definitely be hazardous to your freedom.
Smoking anything (combustion products), can't be good for you.

And I see that that popular populist, Evo Morales, is about to legalize,
to some degree, coca in Bolivia.

That said, a person would be a fool to recreationally use amphetamines.
Everybody but "tweekers" know their mind-eating and, physically
punishing side-effects.

My favorite irritation is treating the dandelion as a weed when it is
really a great diuretic that provides potassium, which most diuretics
leach from your body.

Since we are in the same choir, I wouldn't start preaching at you.

Which leads me to,

Cloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)
- Bill

Janet Baraclough wrote in
:

The message
from EvilGoddessFragileWarrior
contains these words:

Your constant lecturing is annoying
in the extreme. You are not the 'net police and it is not your
responsibility to constantly tell everyone how much smarter you are
than anyone else.

Since when, is expressing an opinion based on facts, "lecturing"
,"being the net police" or boasting?

Give it a rest occasionally.

Wake up, dozy.
This is usenet, it exists for people to share opinions and
information.

Janet.


Is there a limit to the fear-mongering? Six, seven lengthy rants about
the horrid things that can happen, perhaps? Is there anyone here that
needs to hear a lecture that many times? If this is here for opinions my
opnion is I don't need to be talked to like a six year old. That's
including cutsy name calling, too.

In article ,
FragileWarrior wrote:

Janet Baraclough wrote in
:

The message
from EvilGoddessFragileWarrior
contains these words:

Your constant lecturing is annoying
in the extreme. You are not the 'net police and it is not your
responsibility to constantly tell everyone how much smarter you are
than anyone else.

Since when, is expressing an opinion based on facts, "lecturing"
,"being the net police" or boasting?

Give it a rest occasionally.

Wake up, dozy.
This is usenet, it exists for people to share opinions and
information.

Janet.


Is there a limit to the fear-mongering? Six, seven lengthy rants about
the horrid things that can happen, perhaps? Is there anyone here that
needs to hear a lecture that many times? If this is here for opinions my
opnion is I don't need to be talked to like a six year old. That's
including cutsy name calling, too.

Eve, I see you've met some of the local color. At times, any of these
news groups will appear to turn into the anarchy of an elementary school
playground. I'm not patronizing you. I've been posting here for about a
year and have learned quite a bit. This is about as bad as I've seen
members act though. It is kinda surprising how sensitive, abusive people
can be. More often it is the mendicant potty-mouth that stragles through
but that is what the kill button on the "news reader" is all about.

You got some some good information from some good people. I'm sure you
will have more questions and more good people will step-up to help.

I'm glad you posted because you got a couple of the herbalists to
respond. I wasn't sure if there were any here.

I'm planning on experimenting with polk weed this year. I'm sure I'll
have some questions. The young leaves are supposed to be good in salads
but I have yet to quantify what young means. I want to be cautious with
these plants because they have a very bad reputation.

What are your plans for the mugwort? I'm wondering how it would mix with
gentiana lutea to make a digestive. Maybe too much the same.

- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (more or less)

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 16:11:52 GMT, Merry wrote:

I was just wondering what your definition of 'herb' was - it is actually
quite a debate in the herbalist world.
Merry - Chartered Herbalist

How did my definition fit in with this debate? Was my definition
accurate according to a herbalist?



So- what do you classify as 'herb' ?

A herb is any plant which has a useful purpose outside of being
ornamental. A plant which either produces essential oils, has
medicinal properties, a plant to be used to make teas, infusions,
poltice or to cure or help symptoms of ill health.

A zinnia, for example, is not a herb. It is an ornamental annual.
That I know of, it has no other useful purpose other than to
butterflies and bees.

One of the best reference books is "A Modern Herbal." It used to be
in two volumes and is now in one volume full of fascinating
information.

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 16:01:59 +0000 (UTC), EvilGoddessFragileWarrior
wrote:

Nice.

I really wanted to say something stronger but decided a nicer approach
might work. Apparently I was wrong. Your constant lecturing is annoying
in the extreme. You are not the 'net police and it is not your
responsibility to constantly tell everyone how much smarter you are than
anyone else.

Give it a rest occasionally.

I have not one idea what you are talking about. The fact is, I do
know a lot. I have been in the field of horticulture for decades. I
am retired now, but have given lectures on the dangers, and advantages
of herbs. All I did was simply say don't use herbs because someone
said an artemesia pillow helps with sleep. That is idiotic, at best.

Also realize how you perceive me is a reflection you project on me.
Worry about your own words and don't worry about mine. Filter me out
if I'm such a douchebag in your eyes.

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:12:38 -0700, William Rose
wrote:

I think we are all on the same page here. No offense was intended. I was
just trying to be supportive of Eve in cutting the pharmaceutical
umbilical cord.

Sometimes we do get blind-sided by plants, take lavender for example.
Turns out that compounds in lavender oil mimic estrogen and, in a few
cases, little boys have started growing breasts.
http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/jan2007/niehs-31.htm Gives me pause because I
have a nearly half a bottle left of lavender massage oil that I use on
my wife. (Could that be why those construction workers were looking at
me the other day? Naaa)

This interests me. I hadn't heard about this finding. I do take
phytoestrogens and all my menapausal symptoms stopped within a week or
two.

Speaking of dats. My brother had a drop of dew from a brugmansia flower
fall in his eye. His wife had to take him to the hospital when he
started feeling dizzy and his vision blurred. They gave him a shot of
something and, he was soon back up on his feet. He was a bit shaken by
the experience but, otherwise fine.

Yes, as a collector and grower of several varieties of Brugmansia, it
is indeed very toxic both internally and systemically through skin,
eye ducts, nose, mouth...etc. Not everyone who tries a Datura seed
high, or a Brugmansia trip from the seeds knows it can destroy your
mind in hours.

Marijuana has been illegal since 1933, when Elliot Ness & Co. suddenly
needed a "raison d'etre" due to the legalization of booze. No doubt
about it though, marijuana can definitely be hazardous to your freedom.
Smoking anything (combustion products), can't be good for you.

I don't know one person on the planet who died from smoking pot, but
we have numbers in the hundreds of thousands who die directly from
alcohol. That doesn't count the tens of thousands dead in car
accidents. I'm only talking about people with liver disease and its
related accompanying illness'. Pot should be legalized.

And I see that that popular populist, Evo Morales, is about to legalize,
to some degree, coca in Bolivia.

Probably out of desperation due to the drug cartels and the violence
surrounding the drug trafficing trade. I have to think that one
through. I had a cocaine habit in my twenties. I also had a choice
to do it or not. I chose to do it. I'm paying now with health
problems. I sure am glad I didn't know anything about smoking crack
or methamphetamine when I was using drugs. Free base and crank came
way after I already stopped.

That said, a person would be a fool to recreationally use amphetamines.
Everybody but "tweekers" know their mind-eating and, physically
punishing side-effects.

Especially knowing what we know now about the drug.

My favorite irritation is treating the dandelion as a weed when it is
really a great diuretic that provides potassium, which most diuretics
leach from your body.

You'd love my garden. I let them grow, bloom, and seed. They are a
beautiful flower which is hard to kill and the remarkable thing is, if
left alone will find a balance and not overtake the cultivated garden.
Then again, my garden is specifically designed for wildlife and boy
does it have it! Last night we counted 17 toads, all croaking through
the night, then it stormed and they are asleep now. That's 17 in two
small ponds. It sounded like the everglades back there LOL.

Since we are in the same choir, I wouldn't start preaching at you.

Which leads me to,

Cloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)
- Bill

Probablyus mostus. Gimme me my Ben and Jerry's tribute ice cream
"Americone Dream" which is dedicated to our favorite source for the
news; "The Colbert Report."

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 18:54:28 +0100, Janet Baraclough
wrote:

The message
from EvilGoddessFragileWarrior
contains these words:

Your constant lecturing is annoying
in the extreme. You are not the 'net police and it is not your
responsibility to constantly tell everyone how much smarter you are than
anyone else.

Since when, is expressing an opinion based on facts, "lecturing"
,"being the net police" or boasting?

Give it a rest occasionally.

Wake up, dozy.
This is usenet, it exists for people to share opinions and information.

Janet.

You're talking to someone who calls themself
EvilGoddessFragileWarrior. Nuff said. Stop being so preachy.

Jangchub wrote in
:

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 18:54:28 +0100, Janet Baraclough
wrote:

The message
from EvilGoddessFragileWarrior
contains these words:

Your constant lecturing is annoying
in the extreme. You are not the 'net police and it is not your
responsibility to constantly tell everyone how much smarter you are
than anyone else.

Since when, is expressing an opinion based on facts, "lecturing"
,"being the net police" or boasting?

Give it a rest occasionally.

Wake up, dozy.
This is usenet, it exists for people to share opinions and
information.

Janet.

You're talking to someone who calls themself
EvilGoddessFragileWarrior.


??? LOL


Nuff said. Stop being so preachy.


You even shit on people who are sticking up for you? Nice.

Bill Rose wrote in
:
[..]
I'm planning on experimenting with polk weed this year. I'm sure I'll
have some questions. The young leaves are supposed to be good in
salads but I have yet to quantify what young means. I want to be
cautious with these plants because they have a very bad reputation.

From everything I've seen on it, the young leaves (and I don't know what
that means either -- maybe pre-bloom?) need to be boiled in several
different pots of water to take away the toxins. Makes me nervous.
Perhaps it is one of those things you have to have someone who is
familiar with it do it with you the first few times, like mushroom
hunting.


What are your plans for the mugwort?

Not much. I'm just planting them, not using them. I want to see what
they look like and if I don't like them, they're gone.


I'm wondering how it would mix
with gentiana lutea to make a digestive. Maybe too much the same.


It'll be so bitter I don't know how you'll get it down! Gentiana lutea
is supposed to be one of the most bitter herbs of all, isn't it?

In article ,
FragileWarrior wrote:

Bill Rose wrote in
:
[..]
I'm planning on experimenting with polk weed this year. I'm sure I'll
have some questions. The young leaves are supposed to be good in
salads but I have yet to quantify what young means. I want to be
cautious with these plants because they have a very bad reputation.

From everything I've seen on it, the young leaves (and I don't know what
that means either -- maybe pre-bloom?) need to be boiled in several
different pots of water to take away the toxins. Makes me nervous.
Perhaps it is one of those things you have to have someone who is
familiar with it do it with you the first few times, like mushroom
hunting.


What are your plans for the mugwort?

Not much. I'm just planting them, not using them. I want to see what
they look like and if I don't like them, they're gone.


I'm wondering how it would mix
with gentiana lutea to make a digestive. Maybe too much the same.


It'll be so bitter I don't know how you'll get it down! Gentiana lutea
is supposed to be one of the most bitter herbs of all, isn't it?

In France, they use it to make aperitif called Suze. Suze is more than
gentian but that is its' base. Above the Gorge du Tarn, there is a
mountain called Lozère. When we were there, the mountain was perfumed by
the gentian. (The smell is, to my nose, a cross between lilac and sage.)
We loved it. So homemade aperitifs or just its' perfume, I don't care. I
want it.

The culinary side of the pokeweed is ancillary to my interest in it's
effects on the lymphatic system. My wife survived a cancer in her leg
three years ago and the follow up radiation therapy fried the lymph node
near her groin. Now the top of her leg feels a hard as wood. I'm hoping
the pokeweed, or cleavers, or something will have some effect on it. I
check with our doctors to get feed-back from them and, if there is no
downside, then I'll try it to get an idea of the taste. I've just
started with the cleaver juice.

I'll also be playing around with better melon, astergalus, echinacea,
omega flax, purslane, english hawthorn, and prunella to name a few.
Along with work, that should pretty much take care of my summer.

It's been a pretty dry winter. I hope we have enough water to swim in
the river this year.

Have fun,
- Bill
Cloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

William Rose wrote in news:rosefam-
:

The culinary side of the pokeweed is ancillary to my interest in it's
effects on the lymphatic system. My wife survived a cancer in her leg
three years ago and the follow up radiation therapy fried the lymph
node
near her groin. Now the top of her leg feels a hard as wood. I'm hoping
the pokeweed, or cleavers, or something will have some effect on it. I
check with our doctors to get feed-back from them and, if there is no
downside, then I'll try it to get an idea of the taste. I've just
started with the cleaver juice.


Cleavers seems to work pretty good for lymphatic problems. It wouldn't
hurt to try it if you get clearance from the doctors. I drink it in tea
with Stinging Nettles and Lemon Balm (all dried) and the tea is pretty
darned good. I let everything steep for six hours and drink it cold. I'm
getting quite a taste for it after using it for a few weeks now. The
herbalist at the local herb farm mixes it up for me.

If you have a doctor who will talk to you about herbal meds, good for
you! My doctor (a family member!) has never been interested in seeing
that side of things *at all*. I find that eastern doctors will entertain
herbal remedies much more readily than western doctors.

Let me know if you try cleavers and what results you get with it. Good
luck on your search! I think you must be pretty special to be searching
for remedies for your lady.