Karsten Kruse wrote:
Billy schrieb:

Is it really
superior to petrochemical fertilizer, or is it
guilty conscience liberal feelgoodism?

No, the petrochemical producs are better. They sell better and the
market doesn't lie.

And don't forget to use lots of pesticides too. They are made from
petroleum as well. I mean, if we are willing to go to war and cause
incredible suffering, then it must be a good thing ;o), so eats lots
of it. The really good unintended consequence is, of course, it cures
conservative's cranial-rectal inversion, which makes this liberal feel
good ;O).

_Exactly_!

I'm afraid there are no commercial products needed to make compost.

A shame, the industry should do something about it.

Well they could lobby the government to outlaw home based composting.
Only commercial will be allowed.


What you end up with is soil gifted with a dynamic, balanced community
of organism whose birth and death cycles enrich the soil (NPK and much
more) and, a soil that is well ventilated, drained and, able to retain
moisture.

Sounds like communism to me!/sarcasm

So if anybody should have a guilty conscience, it is the "Gingrich"
conservatives (they aren't really conservatives) who promote snake oil
products that they don't understand or do understand but just
want to encourage snake oil sales.

Viva Castro

Agreed .

Karsten

The local grocery has a compost recycle bin,
for food scraps etc. Even the plates and utensils
go in there.

I was wondering, what constitutes 'composting'?
I mean, does it simply get dumped into a big grinder,
or is there some enzymatic chemistry involved?

And who/how/where receives it? Is it really
superior to petrochemical fertilizer, or is it
guilty conscience liberal feelgoodism?


--
Rich

"RichD" wrote in message
...
The local grocery has a compost recycle bin,
for food scraps etc. Even the plates and utensils
go in there.

I was wondering, what constitutes 'composting'?
I mean, does it simply get dumped into a big grinder,
or is there some enzymatic chemistry involved?


Yes enzymatic chemistry is invoved as all living things use enzymes. Physical
grinding is often used as part of the process to speed up decomposition but if
you are prepared to wait this isn't required. The breakdown activity is
mainly done by microorganisms, like fungi, but worms, insects and other little
greeblies play in there too.

And who/how/where receives it?

In this particular case I have no idea. In general ordinary people with
gardens and serious growers both use it. We have been doing it for 1000s of
years. It is not some New Age Fad.

Is it really
superior to petrochemical fertilizer, or is it
guilty conscience liberal feelgoodism?


Compost is not a complete fertiliser as you need some additional inputs
because not all the elements required for plants are fully recycled in this
way. However in some ways it is much superior to synthetic fertiliser as it
adds organic matter to the soil which is essential for healthy soil.

Composting is a way of getting value from what would otherwise be a wasted
resource. So it gets rid of garbage, saves having to get fertiliser and
organic material from some other source, saves money and improves your garden
at the same time.

There are many "recycling" schemes. Some work well, some work a bit and some
are nonsence. Composting is one that works. It may be that even conservatives
have been known to do it but probably only with the lights off under a
blanket.

David

RichD schrieb:

Is it really
superior to petrochemical fertilizer, or is it
guilty conscience liberal feelgoodism?

No, the petrochemical producs are better. They sell better and the market
doesn't lie.

Karsten

Karsten Kruse schrieb:

Is it really
superior to petrochemical fertilizer, or is it
guilty conscience liberal feelgoodism?

No, the petrochemical producs are better. They sell better and the
market doesn't lie.

I'm sorry to have to answer my own posting. I forgot the smilie, so here
it is:



Karsten

RichD wrote:
The local grocery has a compost recycle bin,
for food scraps etc. Even the plates and utensils
go in there.

I was wondering, what constitutes 'composting'?
I mean, does it simply get dumped into a big grinder,
or is there some enzymatic chemistry involved?

And who/how/where receives it? Is it really
superior to petrochemical fertilizer, or is it
guilty conscience liberal feelgoodism?

That's an excellent question, actually.

There are two methods of compost, both work fine. The object is to keep
the kitchen scraps out of the dry garbage, it smells terrible and make
sorting it almost impossible, although most recyclers do the sorting for
you now, so even that isn't a adequate excuse for not recycling anymore.

The first method is to simply bury the compost in rich dark soil, or
even sand works. In this case nature just runs its course, although in
sand the ants do most of the work. Gotta love those ants.

Only IDIOTS use herbicides and pesticides.

The second preferred method is to mix the compost with leaves and grass
ABOVE GROUND in a geometry where the innoculant (some soil for instance)
can spread through the mix, and raise the heat in the center of the pile
to a high enough temperature where the plant material can break down
quicker, and only beneficial gases are produced. As you will quickly see
an entire civilization of bugs and insects and worms and bacteria will
quickly take charge of the situation and do most of the work for you.

All you have to do is turn over and mix the pile every once and a while.

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 02:59:18 -0700 (PDT), RichD
wrote:

The local grocery has a compost recycle bin,
for food scraps etc. Even the plates and utensils
go in there.

I was wondering, what constitutes 'composting'?
I mean, does it simply get dumped into a big grinder,
or is there some enzymatic chemistry involved?

There is the action of bacteria, worms etc., which feed on the scraps
and turn it to compost. Heat and moisture in appropriate amounts
speeds up the process. Is it better than chemical fertiliser? Well,
it's better for the environment - and better for the soil you add it
to, not the least because it contains fibrous vegetable matter which
improves the quality of the soil you add it to. It works best when it
contains sufficient nitrogen and other nutrients required by the
plants you intend to grow.

JD

Blattus Slafaly wrote:
kT wrote:
RichD wrote:
The local grocery has a compost recycle bin,
for food scraps etc. Even the plates and utensils
go in there.

I was wondering, what constitutes 'composting'?
I mean, does it simply get dumped into a big grinder,
or is there some enzymatic chemistry involved?

And who/how/where receives it? Is it really
superior to petrochemical fertilizer, or is it
guilty conscience liberal feelgoodism?

That's an excellent question, actually.

There are two methods of compost, both work fine. The object is to
keep the kitchen scraps out of the dry garbage, it smells terrible and
make sorting it almost impossible, although most recyclers do the
sorting for you now, so even that isn't a adequate excuse for not
recycling anymore.

The first method is to simply bury the compost in rich dark soil, or
even sand works. In this case nature just runs its course, although in
sand the ants do most of the work. Gotta love those ants.

Only IDIOTS use herbicides and pesticides.

The second preferred method is to mix the compost with leaves and
grass ABOVE GROUND in a geometry where the innoculant (some soil for
instance) can spread through the mix, and raise the heat in the center
of the pile to a high enough temperature where the plant material can
break down quicker, and only beneficial gases are produced. As you
will quickly see an entire civilization of bugs and insects and worms
and bacteria will quickly take charge of the situation and do most of
the work for you.

All you have to do is turn over and mix the pile every once and a while.


You can also have your bowel movements in a potty and dump it into the
compost pile.

Sure you can, if you want to RUIN your compost.

RichD wrote:
The local grocery has a compost recycle bin,
for food scraps etc. Even the plates and utensils
go in there.

Paper plates presumably, but dumping plastic or metal utensils seems
very wasteful. I presume this is in the USA throw away culture.

I was wondering, what constitutes 'composting'?

Usually making a big enough heap so that it will get hot by fungal
and/or bacterial action to kill weed seeds and decompose whatever is put
into it into fibrous loam. Takes 6 months - maybe less in ideal conditions.

I mean, does it simply get dumped into a big grinder,
or is there some enzymatic chemistry involved?

No need to grind it. The worms will do that for you. A decent hot
compost pile will get up to 70C or more internally a few days after
being built and may require turning over two or three times before the
material is all fully rotted down. Size matters. Anaerobic or
excessively wet ones smell bad.

And who/how/where receives it? Is it really
superior to petrochemical fertilizer, or is it
guilty conscience liberal feelgoodism?

It is in effect a soil conditioner. Same sort of thing as leaf mould in
a forest. You would get similar stuff by letting it rot down in situ
only done more controllably. Most municipalities that do large scale
composting make it available to allotment holders or large scale
horticultural sites.

Petrochemical fertilisers are a lot more concentrated but are neither
better nor worse as far as the plant is concerned. The biggest
difference is that adding bulky compost to a heavy clay soil will vastly
improve drainage and long term fertility whereas chemicals will only get
you a quick a temporary fix (if that).

Regards,
Martin Brown
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"RichD" wrote in message
...
The local grocery has a compost recycle bin,
for food scraps etc. Even the plates and utensils
go in there.

Having some experience in grocery stores, I noticed something out of the
ordinary in your statement. Refuse plates and utensils, usually styrofoam
of some sort and plastic correspondingly, originate from a eating area in
the grocery store. Not something off the shelf in the grocery store proper.
Typically, the eating area requires a food preparation area to supply it.
Along with that, there may be warming areas for grab and go hot foods, cold
foods bakery items, and so forth. These have short shelf lifes, and are
typically tossed while still in their containers. The food scraps from the
eating area are exceedingly small compared to the volume by the plates and
utensils. There are probably styrofoam or plastic cups involved from the
eating area and placed in same refuse receptacles in the eating area.

3 other primary food waste areas in a grocery store are produce, meat
market, and dairy. These are not typically mixed with prepared food waste.
But, if compacted, do end up in the same location. The only grinding waste
may occur in the meat market.

I know produce waste has alot of plastic, paper, and wire ties within it.
Other than prepared green foods, my parents also disposed of bacon grease
and soured milk in a 1/2 gallon milk carton. Buried contents in the garden
regularly. That was well before hormonal, and present chemicals were added
to foods though. They did not to feel good, but, made the garden grow more
robustly.

--
Dave

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 02:59:18 -0700 (PDT), RichD
wrote in
:

The local grocery has a compost recycle bin,
for food scraps etc. Even the plates and utensils
go in there.

I was wondering, what constitutes 'composting'?
I mean, does it simply get dumped into a big grinder,
or is there some enzymatic chemistry involved?


There are jillions of excellent websites on the subject. Some of the
best are through local Cooperative Extension programs from educational
institutions like WSU, Florida State and Cornell.

My own practice of composting includes both a compost pile and a worm
box. The compost pile works by bacterial decomposition (mostly) and
gets real hot. It gets lawn and garden debris. The fresh veggie scraps
go into the worm box. Worm poo is an outstanding fertilizer. The
compost pile gets dug up and mixed into the soil only once or twice a
year, while the worm box produces continuously, more or less.


And who/how/where receives it? Is it really
superior to petrochemical fertilizer, or is it
guilty conscience liberal feelgoodism?


F*** the environment -- composting is better, cheaper, safer, and you
can do it all yourself.

"Jake D" wrote in message
...
and turn it to compost. Heat and moisture in appropriate amounts
speeds up the process. Is it better than chemical fertiliser? Well,
it's better for the environment - and better for the soil you add it
to, not the least because it contains fibrous vegetable matter which
improves the quality of the soil you add it to. It works best when it
contains sufficient nitrogen and other nutrients required by the
plants you intend to grow.


Does the compost pile get hot enough to kill most of the weeds and their
seeds though?

One of my gardener friends advised me to put the cut grass, garden
clippings, weeds into a plastc trash bin for about a month with some water
inside - before putting it into the compost pile. That way - more weeds and
seeds would die.

A more through way, he explained, was to make compost tea - and soak the
weeds into water til they rotted.

Martin Brown wrote:

RichD wrote:
The local grocery has a compost recycle bin,
for food scraps etc. Even the plates and utensils
go in there.

Paper plates presumably, but dumping plastic or metal utensils seems
very wasteful. I presume this is in the USA throw away culture.

Whole Foods markets in the U.S. have a collecting bin
for compostable materials. The utensils provided with
their ready-to-eat foods are made from a biodegradable
plastic, so they can go with the paper plates and
leftover food.

In article ,
Karsten Kruse wrote:

RichD schrieb:

Is it really
superior to petrochemical fertilizer, or is it
guilty conscience liberal feelgoodism?

No, the petrochemical producs are better. They sell better and the market
doesn't lie.

Karsten

And don't forget to use lots of pesticides too. They are made from
petroleum as well. I mean, if we are willing to go to war and cause
incredible suffering, then it must be a good thing ;o), so eats lots
of it. The really good unintended consequence is, of course, it cures
conservative's cranial-rectal inversion, which makes this liberal
feel good ;O).

Chem ferts are great at sterilizing the ground. They are salts and
over use kills just about everything that supports a plant in
"natural", microbiologically infested soil. When used, as intended,
they encourage the nitrogen consuming bacteria (not all bacteria)
to consume as much organic material in the soil as they can,
thereby depleting the soil of its' water holding capacity. This
causes the chem fert to drain away and pollute someone's drinking
water or, flow down the Mississippi where it creates a huge dead
zone in the Gulf of Mexico. There is also an over all loss of bacteria
which impacts the soil because the bacteria produce a mucous to
bind soil together which slows down their predators. This mucous
also helps prevent soil erosion. And if you like insects, you'll
be happy to hear that plants store the nitrates from chem ferts in their
soft, fast growing, nutrient laden leaves, which in turn, attracts
hungry insects.

So, you end up with dead soil, water pollution, soil erosion and, a
plague of insects. Wow, what a deal ;O) I mean, talk about getting
your money's worth. And speaking of money the less fertile your soil
becomes the more chem ferts you need to buy to get the same amount of
crop. I mean, is this a (Gingrich) conservative's wet dream or what?

Now compost may, or may not, be a fertilizer in the N P K sense of
the word. It is dependent on what is composted, be it vegetation
or doo-doo. Compost is simply stacking up and the natural breaking down
of organic material. If you want to get rid of any viable seeds or other
pathogens in the compost, make a bigger stack and it will generate
enough heat during its' decomposition to denature them. You can
occasionally spray some water on the pile or **** on it. I'm afraid
there are no commercial products needed to make compost.

The purpose of the compost is to feed the soil. Feed the soil and,
the soil will take care of your plants. Feed the bacteria and fungi
(the decomposers) in your soil and, they will feed the nematodes and
amoeba, who in turn fed the worms and insects, who feed burrowing
mammals. What you end up with is soil gifted with a dynamic,
balanced community of organism whose birth and death cycles enrich
the soil (NPK and much more) and, a soil that is well ventilated,
drained and, able to retain moisture. It doesn't make any profit
for Monsanto though unless you buy their seeds.

Truth be told, I don't compost very much. I just haven't developed
the habit. What I do, is grow what is called a "green manure" (plants
that either fix nitrogen or generate a lot of bio-mass in the soil)
early in the year. These get cut down two weeks before planting to
decompose where they are. Then I lay three to four inches of alfalfa
"mulch" on the soil. This mulch, as it breaks down, is my replacement
for compost. Then I lay my drip lines on the mulch and for my plants
that require heat, I lay clear plastic over it all and, cut holes
next to the drip emitters for planting.

Petroleum fertilizers and pesticides allow for huge monoculture
plantings but mixed crop organic farming can produce more total
food on the same acrage. The organic approach also grows healthy
soil.

GMO seeds don't produce more crop. Mostly they let you buy more
petroleum based Round-up to spray on your crop. They also produce
proteins that your immune system may or may not react to, in some
cases they kill butterflys, and there is always the concern of
genetic drift, where traits (like resistance to Round up) can be
passed to weeds.

So if anybody should have a guilty conscience, it is the "Gingrich"
conservatives (they aren't really conservatives) who promote snake
oil products that they don't understand or do understand but just
want to encourage snake oil sales.

Viva Castro
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related

Billy schrieb:

Is it really
superior to petrochemical fertilizer, or is it
guilty conscience liberal feelgoodism?

No, the petrochemical producs are better. They sell better and the market
doesn't lie.

And don't forget to use lots of pesticides too. They are made from
petroleum as well. I mean, if we are willing to go to war and cause
incredible suffering, then it must be a good thing ;o), so eats lots
of it. The really good unintended consequence is, of course, it cures
conservative's cranial-rectal inversion, which makes this liberal
feel good ;O).

_Exactly_!

I'm afraid
there are no commercial products needed to make compost.

A shame, the industry should do something about it.

What you end up with is soil gifted with a dynamic,
balanced community of organism whose birth and death cycles enrich
the soil (NPK and much more) and, a soil that is well ventilated,
drained and, able to retain moisture.

Sounds like communism to me!/sarcasm

So if anybody should have a guilty conscience, it is the "Gingrich"
conservatives (they aren't really conservatives) who promote snake
oil products that they don't understand or do understand but just
want to encourage snake oil sales.

Viva Castro

Agreed .

Karsten