What the hell do you think Medicare is? SOCIAL SECURITY.

It's socialism. And I want nothing to do with it. The government takes a
significant portion of my income away from me against my will and gives it
to social security recipients. I have little confidence that I will ever see
any of this money. I want the government to quit taking my money and giving
it to someone else, and let me decide what to do with it.

I would
live in a socialized nation any time, any day. We are looking to
leave the states within the next ten years. We don't know if we'll go
south to Belize or across to France.

Then do so. There are many socialistic states that assume that the citizens
are not capable of taking care of themselves, and do it for them. If that is
what you want, then go go go.

Anyway, I doubt you are in the tax bracket Obama is talking about
raising taxes on. Most of the country earn the average and are
somewhere between poverty to upper middle.

There is something that many people just can't quite seem to grasp. Who
employs most of the middle class? Bingo! The wealthy! What happens when you
raise taxes on the wealthy? I leave the answer to this question as an
exercise in economics 101.

Stop being a parrot, repeating everything you hear from the grow ups.

Grow up and loose the insults. If you can't say something nice, keep your
mouth shut.

"Jangchub" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:47:35 -0700, "Zoot" wrote:


"Zoot" wrote in message
. ..

Vote for Obama is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

You want four more years of a Republican administration? Man, you're a
glutton for punishment.
snip

Yes. Because what Obama would do to this country scares me to death.
Regardless of what Bush has done, Obama will do worse. Can you say
"Socialism"?


Dang, there I go breaking my own rules about not talking politics. Liberal
extremism does that to me sometimes....


What? Liberal extremism? Because someone asked you if you want four
more years of a republican admin you are calling that extremism?


Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions. The questions is obviously not an
extremist question. What Obama and Biden would do to this country IS liberal
extremism. And that is what gets me going.

In article ,
"Zoot" wrote:

"Jangchub" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:47:35 -0700, "Zoot" wrote:


"Zoot" wrote in message
. ..

Vote for Obama is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

You want four more years of a Republican administration? Man, you're a
glutton for punishment.
snip

Yes. Because what Obama would do to this country scares me to death.
Regardless of what Bush has done, Obama will do worse. Can you say
"Socialism"?


Dang, there I go breaking my own rules about not talking politics. Liberal
extremism does that to me sometimes....


What? Liberal extremism? Because someone asked you if you want four
more years of a republican admin you are calling that extremism?


Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions. The questions is obviously not an
extremist question. What Obama and Biden would do to this country IS liberal
extremism. And that is what gets me going.

Take this test it is sort of interesting.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

Bill who resonates with

*Dennis Kucinich




Dennis Kucinich *(Photo: AP )

U.S. Representative from Ohio

Age: 60
Born: October 8, 1946 in Cleveland, Ohio
Education: Case Western Reserve U., B.A., M.A., 1973
Military: None
Family: Married (Elizabeth); One child
Hometown: Cleveland, Ohio
Religion: Catholic
Career: U.S. Representative from Ohio 1997-present; Ohio Senate 1994-96;
Mayor of Cleveland, 1977-1979; Cleveland City Council 1970-75, 1983-85.

Has represented Ohio¹s 10th district in Congress since 1997.

Elected Mayor of Cleveland at age 31; elected to Cleveland City Council
at 23.

Voted against the use of force in Iraq in 2002 and against the USA
Patriot Act.

Ran for president in 2004 on a platform that included abolishing the
death penalty, legalizing same sex marriage, and establishing a cabinet
level "Department of Peace."

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

Take this test it is sort of interesting.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/



I don't think I've seen this version before. So here goes...

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: 4.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.28

Even this doesn't tell the entire story. I have religious views that
probably prevent me from being more right/authoritarian then this test
shows.

In article ,
"Zoot" wrote:

Take this test it is sort of interesting.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/



I don't think I've seen this version before. So here goes...

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: 4.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.28

Even this doesn't tell the entire story. I have religious views that
probably prevent me from being more right/authoritarian then this test
shows.

The Graphic depiction is some thing I¹d like to track. Getting old
and values as a image changing. Cool. Still lots of questions that
separate us folks with the garden a given in common.

Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

Take this test it is sort of interesting.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

I don't think I've seen this version before. So here goes...

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: 4.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.28

Even this doesn't tell the entire story. I have religious views that
probably prevent me from being more right/authoritarian then this test
shows.

The Graphic depiction is some thing I¹d like to track. Getting old
and values as a image changing. Cool. Still lots of questions that
separate us folks with the garden a given in common.

Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA


I would be interested to see how others here score. I know I tend to be
quite far to the right, though I'm not far enough to the right to be
considered an extremist. Some of my views are suprisingly liberal, though no
one would ever accuse me of having socialist tendencies. How did you score?
And then I'd be interested in seeing if there is any correlation between the
love of gardening and ones scores on this test.

I'm not sure if age has changed me all that much. When Ronald Reagan was
first running for president in 1980 was when I first started to pay
attention to politics in general. I very quickly realized that the democrats
and liberals just were not making a lot of sense. I understood what they
were saying, but I didn't agree with them, and I most definitely didn't want
the things they wanted. I very quickly realized that I had conservative
"values" and beliefs. No one taught me this - it was the way I was, and they
way I belived things should be.

A friend of mine at work told me something very interesting the other day.
According to him ( and I have not found reason to disbelieve this ), someone
(don't know who) did a study of people's beliefs with respect to authority
and control in the family. Some people felt they were the absolute authority
in the home, and would discipline their children strictly. They also
believed in giving their children their values, so that the children would
grow up believing as they did.

Others were not so authoritative. They felt that children should be loved
and nurtured, but allowed to find their own path in life. Discipline was
soft, and the focus was on discussion and counseling instead of punishment.
And of course there are people everywhere in between. I don't think their
sample population had a normal distribution, but tended to have fewer people
in the middle and more people towards the edges.

The also found a very strong correlation between authoritative people and
conservatives, and between the latter group and liberalism. I found this to
be very interesting, and it helped to answer some of the questions I had
about why people did and believed the things they did.

In article ,
"Zoot" wrote:

Take this test it is sort of interesting.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

I don't think I've seen this version before. So here goes...

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: 4.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.28

Even this doesn't tell the entire story. I have religious views that
probably prevent me from being more right/authoritarian then this test
shows.

The Graphic depiction is some thing I¹d like to track. Getting old
and values as a image changing. Cool. Still lots of questions that
separate us folks with the garden a given in common.

Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA


I would be interested to see how others here score. I know I tend to be
quite far to the right, though I'm not far enough to the right to be
considered an extremist. Some of my views are suprisingly liberal, though no
one would ever accuse me of having socialist tendencies. How did you score?
And then I'd be interested in seeing if there is any correlation between the
love of gardening and ones scores on this test.

I'm not sure if age has changed me all that much. When Ronald Reagan was
first running for president in 1980 was when I first started to pay
attention to politics in general. I very quickly realized that the democrats
and liberals just were not making a lot of sense. I understood what they
were saying, but I didn't agree with them, and I most definitely didn't want
the things they wanted. I very quickly realized that I had conservative
"values" and beliefs. No one taught me this - it was the way I was, and they
way I belived things should be.

A friend of mine at work told me something very interesting the other day.
According to him ( and I have not found reason to disbelieve this ), someone
(don't know who) did a study of people's beliefs with respect to authority
and control in the family. Some people felt they were the absolute authority
in the home, and would discipline their children strictly. They also
believed in giving their children their values, so that the children would
grow up believing as they did.

Others were not so authoritative. They felt that children should be loved
and nurtured, but allowed to find their own path in life. Discipline was
soft, and the focus was on discussion and counseling instead of punishment.
And of course there are people everywhere in between. I don't think their
sample population had a normal distribution, but tended to have fewer people
in the middle and more people towards the edges.

The also found a very strong correlation between authoritative people and
conservatives, and between the latter group and liberalism. I found this to
be very interesting, and it helped to answer some of the questions I had
about why people did and believed the things they did.




Economic Left/Right: -7.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.25

Bill who listens to http://xpn.org/

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

Economic Left/Right: -7.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.25

Bill who listens to http://xpn.org/


Holy moly! Viva La Difference! :-)

In article ,
"Zoot" wrote:

What the hell do you think Medicare is? SOCIAL SECURITY.

It's socialism. And I want nothing to do with it. The government takes a
significant portion of my income away from me against my will and gives it
to social security recipients. I have little confidence that I will ever see
any of this money. I want the government to quit taking my money and giving
it to someone else, and let me decide what to do with it.

Uh, the Republicans just gave $700 billion to Henry Paulson. In 2004, at
the request of the major Wall Street investment houses, including
Goldman Sachs, then headed by Paulson, the U.S. Securities and Exchange
Commission agreed unanimously to release the major investment houses
from the net capital rule, the requirement that their brokerages hold
reserve capital that limited their leverage and risk exposure.

After an $85,000,000,000 bail out of AIG, the executives of AIG treated
themselves to a week at St Regis Resort in Monarch Beach, California to
the tune of $450,000. Let's see thats already about $2,300 plus $280 for
AIG. Makes the $100 for Bear Sterns seem like chump change. That's about
$2,700 of American tax dollars that you are guaranteed to never see.

Putting the tax brackets back to where they were in the 90's, isn't
socialism, it's regulation. You don't like regulation? That's what has
gotten us into this situation.

If McCain wins, you won't have to worry about the government taking your
money. You'll never see it.

Do yourself a favor and look at "The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of
Disaster Capitalism" by Naomi Klein.
http://www.amazon.com/Shock-Doctrine...sm/dp/03124279
99/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1225056165&sr=1-1
Check your local library.
--

Billy
Republican and Democratic "Leadership" Behind Bars
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net

I live in the UK and I've just read thro this thread. I love the States and visit as often as I can and am fascinated by the elections.
I find it interesting that many of the threads on the US page are not about gardening at all, whereas almost all the ones on the UK page are.
If I had two wishes to improve this site it would be that the most recent post would bump that thread to the top of the page and that previous posts were not still hanging around on the reply page every time.

"Dioclese" NONE wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
"Zoot" wrote in message

I don't have any problems on which I need to seek advice and I'm sure
no-one is interested in the state of my compost or what my sweet peas
are doing. There has to be some sort of reason to post.

I'm envious!

:-)) Well, if it's any consolation, I'm envious of all you mob living in
the Northern hemisphere as winter draws on here but you lot are all
writing about your spring and how things are doing.

And when that happens, there are a lot of you doing the same thing.
There are only a few of us here who live in the Southern hemisphere who
post here regulalry so you have lots more company than we do.

Living in zone 8A in central Texas. I have to be careful when reading
posts here with gardening/lawn advice as most don't apply to my area.

:-)) I know what you mean. Living on an Island nation where conditons
range from snow to tropics and rain rich to desert I notice the same thing.

You don't
have to live in another hemisphere to experience this.

But do you notice how often some posts rae besed on the assumption that
everyone who posts here must live in the US?

I will have to bring
in my home-grown lemon tree in a pot soon.

When you say "home-grown", does that mean that you grew it from seed?

"Zoot" wrote in message
"Dioclese" NONE wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
"Zoot" wrote in message

I don't have any problems on which I need to seek advice and I'm sure
no-one is interested in the state of my compost or what my sweet peas
are doing. There has to be some sort of reason to post.

I'm envious!

:-)) Well, if it's any consolation, I'm envious of all you mob living
in the Northern hemisphere as winter draws on here but you lot are all
writing about your spring and how things are doing.

And when that happens, there are a lot of you doing the same thing.
There are only a few of us here who live in the Southern hemisphere who
post here regulalry so you have lots more company than we do.

Living in zone 8A in central Texas. I have to be careful when reading
posts here with gardening/lawn advice as most don't apply to my area.
You don't have to live in another hemisphere to experience this. I will
have to bring in my home-grown lemon tree in a pot soon.
--


I lived in Las Vegas for 15 years. My peach trees grew like crazy! Basil
exploded out of the ground. Mint takes over anywhere it finds water. But
squash? Eggplants? Peppers? I could never get them to survive July and
August. When the temp hit 120, half of my garden died and I eventually
gave up.

I've found that some shade cloth draped over the plants gives them enogh
protection to survive. It doesn't seem to be the temperature that does for
them, it seems to be the savageness of the sun's rays.

"Zoot" wrote in message

Vote for Obama is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

You want four more years of a Republican administration? Man, you're a
glutton for punishment.
snip

Yes. Because what Obama would do to this country scares me to death.
Regardless of what Bush has done, Obama will do worse. Can you say
"Socialism"?

???? The rescue package has got to be one of the most peculiar things to
come out of the Bush Administration. At least the Brits had the smarts to
take a stake in the banks so that their government can later sell the stake
and recover some of the cost to the taxpayers when the good times come
again. In the US that money seems to just be a donation from the taxpayers.
The Bristih move is definitely a socialist startegy whereas the US one is
pure capitalism. As a taxpayer, I know I'd prefer the British model any
day.

I lived in Las Vegas for 15 years. My peach trees grew like crazy! Basil
exploded out of the ground. Mint takes over anywhere it finds water. But
squash? Eggplants? Peppers? I could never get them to survive July and
August. When the temp hit 120, half of my garden died and I eventually
gave up.

I've found that some shade cloth draped over the plants gives them enogh
protection to survive. It doesn't seem to be the temperature that does
for them, it seems to be the savageness of the sun's rays.

I've tried that, with limited success. I grew some tomatoes at the side of
the house where they were protected from the noon/afternoon sun, and one
year they grew like crazy! But I was never able to duplicate that, and the
next year they were their usual lackluster self. Some cool weather plants
grew well - beets, carrots, greens did well but you had to time your
planting carefully. In Vegas, we went from too cold to too hot very fast. If
it was a long cold winter followed by an early hot summer, your cold weather
stuff did not have time to mature before it got too hot. 100 degrees in May
is not at all unusual.

I know a lot more now then I did then. If I ever find myself in a climate
like that (I hope I never do!) I'm optimistic I might have better luck.

???? The rescue package has got to be one of the most peculiar things to
come out of the Bush Administration. At least the Brits had the smarts to
take a stake in the banks so that their government can later sell the
stake and recover some of the cost to the taxpayers when the good times
come again. In the US that money seems to just be a donation from the
taxpayers. The Bristih move is definitely a socialist startegy whereas the
US one is pure capitalism. As a taxpayer, I know I'd prefer the British
model any day.

I agree that it is peculiar. I think a certain amount of crash and burn
should be allowed to happen. If a company can't meet its payroll without
borrowing money, payday after payday, they deserve to go belly up. If a city
can't run their busses without borrowing money, they should shut them down.
The current financial "crisis" in the USA will pass, and as a result the
weaker businesses will be gone. You don't shoot the Doctor because you loose
a patient. And you don't scrap capitalism because it hiccups. I say keep the
government out of it. It will recover, the stock market will recover, and
America will be stronger because of it.

I've always been an advocate for government taking on the role of an
educator, not an enforcer. Educated people tend to make better decisions. A
lot of people took out a mortgage that was a really stupid idea, and didn't
know better. I have a close relative in bankruptcy right now because he
bought a house on an interest only loan, and now he couldn't afford the
payments. Duh! A little education about home loans and mortgages could have
prevented a lot of this.