brooklyn1 wrote:
On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 02:03:38 -0500, sherwin dubren
wrote:

brooklyn1 wrote:
sherwin dubren wrote:
Here I disagree with you again. A larger tree is much less likely to
succeed in transplanting. More likely than the nursery cut off too
many roots to squeeze it into a pot or burlap ball. They also have
a harder time adapting to the surrounding soil. These larger trees
are for impatient people who want instantaneous results. In fact,
these whips do not take long to catch up with their larger planted
counterparts.

A lot depends on the grower, some will cheat by digging a small root
ball, others will give an adequate ball. More mature trees (and
plants in general) benefit from root pruning. I purchased large trees
with root balls much too heavy for me to haul home let alone plant, I
paid to have that done... all did very well.

Well, it may make shipping and replanting easier, but is certainly not
advantageous to the plant, depending on how much you cut off. There
are cases where you can kill a tree that way.


And then there is the element of space for planting. If one has
plenty of land to put into orchard and intends to make a major
operation of growing fruit
The majority of people on gardening forums like this are hobbiests,
so large trees just become a big maintenance headache. If they are
working in a backyard, this limits the number of varieties they can
plant.

No arguement there... I think I covered that in my next section.

then the best route is to buy mature rooted
trees from an area grower wholesaler/retailer... they will cost about
double and triple than from an independant and big box... but at least
you will have a mature plant that is true to form and is probably
already fruiting. But for someone with a small property who is
intending to have 2-6 trees then I recommend they get started with a
couple of potted trees from a big box, to learn how to care for fruit
trees and have time to decide what they really want to plant in
limited space.

When I say a mature tree I mean one about 5-7 years old, not some
gnarly ancient. All transplants suffer shock, but in the end a young
mature fruit tree will do better than a bare root "whip"... and I'd
much rather have a plant that was grown locally than one from here,
there, everywhere, and many states away.

Makes no difference where it was grown. As I said, soil is a bigger
factor. Any arborist will tell you the smaller the tree, the greater
the survival rate. Even a one year old plant will survive sooner
then a two or three year old plant if it is planted properly.

I've purchased those mail
order bare root "whips" and some did well but others died, they were
replaced but a year later... it wasn't worth all the planning,
preparing a piece of ground, anticipating arrival, the disapointment
of opening the large box and seeing a twig no larger than a strand of
pasta but still planting it, and then the disappointment when it never
leafs out. No thank you... I'll buy plants I can see growing.

Did you ever think you were ordering plants from the wrong place? I
have never had a whip die on me, but a good nursery stands behind
their product and will replace it, if it dies prematurely.

The
balled/potted fruit saplings one finds at the big box and most
nurseries are a good choice, but then being retired I didn't want to
wait longer than necesary so I opted for something a bit larger... so
a persons age has a lot to do with choosing nursery stock. Those mail
order whips I think are no bargain, they cost more and with shipping
one can buy two growing plants at Home Depot.

As I stated earlier, whips can catch up to these larger trees over a
few years. Certainly buying standard rootstock trees like you seem
to prefer, will delay fruit production by several years.

I also recommend dwarf trees. My neighbor planted almost all standard
trees about 5 years ago and many have not fruited and they are growing
too big. I advised him then to plant dwarfs, and now he tells me he
regrets not listening to me.

Dwarf fruit trees are rather small, they grow perhaps to 8" ht and 6"
wd, are fine for those who have limited space but since I have space I
prefer semi dwarf (they grow 12'-15' tall and as wide), they are very
manageable with a small step ladder and pole pruner.

You can't effectively prune apple trees by topping them. Other
fruits, yes.

I also need
trees that grow taller because deer would make salad of dwarfs unless
I kept them fenced forever. With semi dwarfs I keep them fenced until
I can prune them to begin branching at about five feet, at that point
I can remove the fence and the deer will keep them pruned fastidiously
to five feet. If ever you pass a large orchard you will notice how
all the tree's lower branches are the same height, deer do that with
all trees/shrubs they browse.

You must have a nice tall ladder to handle your style trees. Also,
spraying must be lot's of fun. I can appreciate the problem with
deer, but your solution is not good, especially for someone of your
age.


A grower is a much different operation from a plant nursery. Growers
do their own grafting, have many acres planted with stock in various
stages. Some will have a retail section... they are typically listed
in the phone book.

In my location I shop these two:
http://www.storysnursery.com/
These guys have a good selection of fruit trees, but absolutely no
mention of rootstocks provided, so I assume they are all on standard
rootstock.

http://www.schoharienurseries.com/index.htm
This nursery also has a good selection of fruit trees and they do
describe how dwarf trees behave, but their catalog does not indicate
which trees are available on which rootstocks, or even if they sell
dwarf trees.

These growers don't sell on line or from catalog. They are primarily
wholesale growers (they only sell what they themselves grow) and only
keep a web site for advertising their retail business to the locals,
which I readily admit is not much of a web site, and it's listings are
probably not up to date. If one has specific questions they will be
happy to answer. I have found all the personel quite knowlegeable and
helpful... they will help you choose, insist upon loading your plants
and covering them so they will be protectected from wind damage on the
trip home. And in fact their main location is only a very small part
of the operation, they own many hundreds of acres of planting fields
and greenhouses at other nearby locations that the public is not
permitted to browse.

Maybe so, but these commercial guys like this usually grow varieties
that sell well in supermarkets, not the interesting ones that home
orchardist's would like.

It's really only the mail order and on line sellers who maintain fancy
schmancy web sites with all manner of hype... but it's rare they grow
any of their own stock.

Not true.


Those "whips' and tiny plants are shipped
from many private growers scattered about in states where
land is cheap and ordinary folks do it as a cottage industry... those
companys only handle the paperwork, their mail order plant business
has no more to do with growing than Sears has to do with manufacturing
clothes washers. Didn't you notice how all their pictures are of
perfect plants that one can never achieve in reality... ain't
photoshop grand.

Your description fits the big box stores and some nurseries. That is
why I stress checking out a seller before you buy. One clue is if
they don't specify the rootstock type. That means that they are
either planting their trees on an assembly line, or they may be
buying from an intermediary.

Here is a site where you can find reliable trees and scion wood:

http://www.nafex.org/supply_source.htm

This site recommends checking these nurseries and others at the
following:

http://davesgarden.com/products/gwd/

Here you will find customer reviews of various nurseries. Some are
mixed, so obviously nobody has the same experience in these cases.
Also, not many buyers make the connection to the rootstock type,
like with Stark's Nursery. They see graft failures and other
problems, but don't make the rootstock connection. Generally, one
can get a rough idea of what to expect from these reviews.


Sherwin

In article ,
Karen wrote:
On Oct 8, 1:56*pm, "Thos" wrote:
I don't know about the SFBA, but the Home Depot's around the Dallas, Tx area
only sell fruit trees in the spring.

I thought that fall was the best time to plant trees? The fruit trees
are hitting Orchard Supply now, too.

In article ,
Patty Winter wrote:

In article ,
Karen wrote:
On Oct 8, 1:56*pm, "Thos" wrote:
I don't know about the SFBA, but the Home Depot's around the Dallas, Tx area
only sell fruit trees in the spring.

I thought that fall was the best time to plant trees? The fruit trees
are hitting Orchard Supply now, too.

Whoops, sorry, hit the "send" key too soon.

I was going to say that we here in the Bay Area have a different
sense of planting seasons than people in many other parts of the
country. :-) I, too, am getting ready to do some planting--just
as my friends in Michigan are putting away their garden tools
for the next few months.


Patty

On Oct 31, 10:15*am, Patty Winter wrote:
In article ,
Patty Winter wrote:



In article ,
Karen wrote:
On Oct 8, 1:56 pm, "Thos" wrote:
I don't know about the SFBA, but the Home Depot's around the Dallas, Tx area
only sell fruit trees in the spring.

I thought that fall was the best time to plant trees? The fruit trees
are hitting Orchard Supply now, too.

Whoops, sorry, hit the "send" key too soon.

I was going to say that we here in the Bay Area have a different
sense of planting seasons than people in many other parts of the
country. :-) I, too, am getting ready to do some planting--just
as my friends in Michigan are putting away their garden tools
for the next few months.

Patty

Thanks, everyone, for all your helpful advice. I took it all to heart
as we searched for trees to plant. Look for new post on what we ended
up with.
Thanks again,
Julie in SFBA

julie wrote:
Hi there,

For the first time in my life I am buying trees, specifically fruit
and probably citrus.

Is Home Depot any good for this? There are a number of terrific
nurseries around here but it is a matter of time not money, if there
is even a difference. I am not sure. I was kind of caught by surprise
here.


What do you all say?

Take care,
Julie in SFBA
You better know what you are doing because the staff at these big
box stores are less than usefel.

In Menards today, the clerk told me that most peach trees need another
polinator, whereas apples are mostly self fertile. She got things
backwards.

She also mentioned that apples could be pollinated by pears, plums,
etc. She better go back to fruit trees 101 before she gives out
false information like that.

Sherwin

sherwin dubren wrote:
julie wrote:

For the first time in my life I am buying trees, specifically fruit
and probably citrus.

Is Home Depot any good for this? There are a number of terrific
nurseries around here but it is a matter of time not money, if there
is even a difference. I am not sure. I was kind of caught by surprise
here.

How does time come into play... same time to plant stock from one
nursery or another... and of course money comes into play, who do you
think you're fooling, that's the main reason for buying anything from
big box stores, it costs less. And what surprise?!?!?

What do you all say?

You better know what you are doing because the staff at these big
box stores are less than usefel.

You had best know what you're doing before buying nursery stock
anywhere... there is no chance that the staff at any retail nursery is
more useful than at another unless one has had personal experience
with a particular staff member's expertise... except that in my
experience I've found the staff at the big box store nurseries to be
far more accomodating with schlepping and loading. I don't
necessarily rely on retail nursery worker's plant expertise, that's my
responsibility to learn prior to shopping.

In Menards today, the clerk told me that most peach trees need another
polinator, whereas apples are mostly self fertile. She got things
backwards.

She also mentioned that apples could be pollinated by pears, plums,
etc. She better go back to fruit trees 101 before she gives out
false information like that.



Why would a clerk come out of nowhere with that kind of information,
and if you already know the answers to your questions that makes you
grossly disingenuous. Your story is not believeable, it sounds like
something made up by someone with a grudge against the big box
emporiums. Plants would be labeled with planting instructions and
typically fruit tree tags list pollinating requirements. Someone with
a degree in horticulture wouldn't be schlepping plants around any
retail nursery. Anyone considering growing fruit should educate
themselves about what to plant and how before ever visiting any plant
nursery. Folks don't go to Lowes to learn horticulture anymore than
they do to learn heating and cooling... occasionally one will by pure
accident encounter an employee with expert knowlege but at the wages
paid at any retail nursery I'd not count on it... one can learn all
they need to know about fruit trees on the net. Folks shop at big box
stores to save money regardless what they buy, they should have
already armed themselves with the knowlege required for what to
choose. If one is too lazy to do research on their own they can
always go to the dedicated plant nurseries where they'll pay twice as
much and still will be just as likely to receive incorrect
information, probably more likely, becaue places that charge more are
more likely to not admit not knowing so would dispense BS instead. In
my experience the help at the big box nurseries have no more
horticultural knowlege than what anyone can read on the plant tag,
anytime I've asked a more technical question they've said I don't
know... can't get more honest. Retail plant nurseries pay little more
than minimum wage... no education is required to schlepp plants, bales
of planting medium, and watering hoses about. However the nursery
stock at either is exactly the same, comes from the same local
wholesalers/growers. Also the big box stores don't hassle folks about
returns whereas the independant nurseries typically institute all
sorts of escape clauses for not replacing plants or returning full
purchase price. Another point to consider is that the typical
independant retail nursery buys all their stock in one fell swoop in
order to take advantage of bulk discounts... that same stock sits in
what is virtually a parking lot the entire season hoping for a buyer,
it gets sun, it hopefully gets watered regularly, it gets knocked
about by folks looking, and the nicest specimens are sold right away
and not replaced... what's left doesn't go into the ground until
someone buys and plants it. Whereas the big box stores are gigantic
accounts, they get freshly dug shipments weekly, even daily. It's
pretty silly not to shop the big box nurseries first, especially for
newbies like the OP who really have no business purchasing the more
costly less common plants until they gain some experience, at least
enough experience not to need to ask the nursery help about
pollinating.

There is lots of info available about fruit trees but it's best to
research ones own area.

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/ext/pollination.html

brooklyn1 wrote:
sherwin dubren wrote:
julie wrote:
For the first time in my life I am buying trees, specifically fruit
and probably citrus.

Is Home Depot any good for this? There are a number of terrific
nurseries around here but it is a matter of time not money, if there
is even a difference. I am not sure. I was kind of caught by surprise
here.

How does time come into play... same time to plant stock from one
nursery or another... and of course money comes into play, who do you
think you're fooling, that's the main reason for buying anything from
big box stores, it costs less. And what surprise?!?!?

What do you all say?
You better know what you are doing because the staff at these big
box stores are less than usefel.

You had best know what you're doing before buying nursery stock
anywhere... there is no chance that the staff at any retail nursery is
more useful than at another unless one has had personal experience
with a particular staff member's expertise... except that in my
experience I've found the staff at the big box store nurseries to be
far more accomodating with schlepping and loading. I don't
necessarily rely on retail nursery worker's plant expertise, that's my
responsibility to learn prior to shopping.

In Menards today, the clerk told me that most peach trees need another
polinator, whereas apples are mostly self fertile. She got things
backwards.

She also mentioned that apples could be pollinated by pears, plums,
etc. She better go back to fruit trees 101 before she gives out
false information like that.



Why would a clerk come out of nowhere with that kind of information,

We were discussing various topics about prices of trees at different
stores. She volunteered the information about pollination
requirements. I merely corrected her.
and if you already know the answers to your questions that makes you
grossly disingenuous.

You are an idiot.


Your story is not believeable, it sounds like
something made up by someone with a grudge against the big box
emporiums.

Oh sure. I'm on a real vendetta against big box sellers.
Again, you are a big idiot.

Plants would be labeled with planting instructions and
typically fruit tree tags list pollinating requirements.

What planet are you on?

Someone with
a degree in horticulture wouldn't be schlepping plants around any
retail nursery. Anyone considering growing fruit should educate
themselves about what to plant and how before ever visiting any plant
nursery. Folks don't go to Lowes to learn horticulture anymore than
they do to learn heating and cooling... occasionally one will by pure
accident encounter an employee with expert knowlege but at the wages
paid at any retail nursery I'd not count on it... one can learn all
they need to know about fruit trees on the net. Folks shop at big box
stores to save money regardless what they buy,

I shop at big box stores for items I think are a good value. Fruit
trees are something I think people should be aware of the possibility
of getting something they didn't expect.

they should have
already armed themselves with the knowlege required for what to
choose. If one is too lazy to do research on their own they can
always go to the dedicated plant nurseries where they'll pay twice as
much and still will be just as likely to receive incorrect
information

Much less likely since nursery people are dedicated to that business
and they don't hire temporary workers, as a general rule.

, probably more likely, becaue places that charge more are
more likely to not admit not knowing so would dispense BS instead. In
my experience the help at the big box nurseries have no more
horticultural knowlege than what anyone can read on the plant tag,
anytime I've asked a more technical question they've said I don't
know... can't get more honest. Retail plant nurseries pay little more
than minimum wage... no education is required to schlepp plants, bales
of planting medium, and watering hoses about.

I don't shop at local nurseries for plants I can buy on the web for
much less money. The nursery people are not experts, but they
know a lot more than the big box people.

However the nursery
stock at either is exactly the same, comes from the same local
wholesalers/growers. Also the big box stores don't hassle folks about
returns whereas the independant nurseries typically institute all
sorts of escape clauses for not replacing plants or returning full
purchase price.

Strange, I recall you toting the advantage of buying big trees from
your local nursery. Sounds like you have some problems with one
of them.

Another point to consider is that the typical
independant retail nursery buys all their stock in one fell swoop in
order to take advantage of bulk discounts... that same stock sits in
what is virtually a parking lot the entire season hoping for a buyer,
it gets sun, it hopefully gets watered regularly, it gets knocked
about by folks looking, and the nicest specimens are sold right away
and not replaced... what's left doesn't go into the ground until
someone buys and plants it. Whereas the big box stores are gigantic
accounts, they get freshly dug shipments weekly, even daily. It's
pretty silly not to shop the big box nurseries first, especially for
newbies like the OP who really have no business purchasing the more
costly less common plants until they gain some experience, at least
enough experience not to need to ask the nursery help about
pollinating.

I did not ask for help on pollination, but tried to correct some
statements made by a big box clerk. I think the care issues you
mentioned apply equally to nurseries and big box. I have seen
tree stock from big box stores that looked pretty sad and eventually
was put on sale at the end of the season, to clear it out.

There is lots of info available about fruit trees but it's best to
research ones own area.

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/ext/pollination.html

You talk like there are only two sources of fruit trees. Local
nurseries and big box stores. I think the best choice is a
reliable out of town nursery. The selection is way bigger
when you deal with the whole country. I find for reliable tagging,
that can only be found at specific nurseries where they
grow their own trees from scratch. The better nurseries can tell
you exactly what rootstocks you are getting, not some ambiguous
label like semi-dwarf. Sure, you can get a better deal at a big
box store, but you can never be sure about what you are buying.
Most of the nurseries in my area (Chicago) are way too expensive.
I buy whips or benchmark trees that arrive in great shape and
adopt nicely to my backyard.

Sherwin

On Nov 3, 4:03*pm, julie wrote:
On Oct 31, 10:15*am, Patty Winter wrote:





In article ,
Patty Winter wrote:

In article ,
Karen wrote:
On Oct 8, 1:56 pm, "Thos" wrote:
I don't know about the SFBA, but the Home Depot's around the Dallas, Tx area
only sell fruit trees in the spring.

I thought that fall was the best time to plant trees? The fruit trees
are hitting Orchard Supply now, too.

Whoops, sorry, hit the "send" key too soon.

I was going to say that we here in the Bay Area have a different
sense of planting seasons than people in many other parts of the
country. :-) I, too, am getting ready to do some planting--just
as my friends in Michigan are putting away their garden tools
for the next few months.

Patty

Thanks, everyone, for all your helpful advice. I took it all to heart
as we searched for trees to plant. Look for new post on what we ended
up with.
Thanks again,
Julie in SFBA- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Find a local nursery who can advise you on what varieties grow best in
your particular microclimate.

But...most importantly, if you are planting stone fruit - WAIT. Bare
root season is right around the corner and you can get trees much
cheaper then. Starting in December, the nursery will be filled with
bare root fruit trees. If the local nursery that you find has helpful
employees, they will order the varieties you want as bare root stock.

The Sunset garden book has listings of different cultivars if you
don't already have a favorite. You *do* have a Sunset garden book,
don't you?

Good luck,
Susan B.

On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 16:27:00 -0800 (PST), sueb
wrote:

On Nov 3, 4:03*pm, julie wrote:
On Oct 31, 10:15*am, Patty Winter wrote:





In article ,
Patty Winter wrote:

In article ,
Karen wrote:
On Oct 8, 1:56 pm, "Thos" wrote:
I don't know about the SFBA, but the Home Depot's around the Dallas, Tx area
only sell fruit trees in the spring.

I thought that fall was the best time to plant trees? The fruit trees
are hitting Orchard Supply now, too.

Whoops, sorry, hit the "send" key too soon.

I was going to say that we here in the Bay Area have a different
sense of planting seasons than people in many other parts of the
country. :-) I, too, am getting ready to do some planting--just
as my friends in Michigan are putting away their garden tools
for the next few months.

Patty

Thanks, everyone, for all your helpful advice. I took it all to heart
as we searched for trees to plant. Look for new post on what we ended
up with.
Thanks again,
Julie in SFBA- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Find a local nursery who can advise you on what varieties grow best in
your particular microclimate.

But...most importantly, if you are planting stone fruit - WAIT. Bare
root season is right around the corner and you can get trees much
cheaper then.

Cheaper... cheaper than what???

For the typical homeowner planting like a half dozen fruit trees at
the most, who GAF about saving like *maybe* two bucks on a $17 tree...
I mean it's not like peaches and plums is some kinda rare and pricey
trees.

On Nov 7, 11:28*am, brooklyn1 wrote:
sherwin dubren wrote:
julie wrote:

*Someone with
a degree in horticulture wouldn't be schlepping plants around any
retail nursery. *

*Retail plant nurseries pay little more
than minimum wage... no education is required to schlepp plants, bales
of planting medium, and watering hoses about. *However the nursery
stock at either is exactly the same, comes from the same local
wholesalers/growers. *Also the big box stores don't hassle folks about
returns whereas the independant nurseries typically institute all
sorts of escape clauses for not replacing plants or returning full
purchase price. * Another point to consider is that the typical
independant retail nursery buys all their stock in one fell swoop in
order to take advantage of bulk discounts... that same stock sits in
what is virtually a parking lot the entire season hoping for a buyer,
it gets sun, it hopefully gets watered regularly, it gets knocked
about by folks looking, and the nicest specimens are sold right away
and not replaced... what's left doesn't go into the ground until
someone buys and plants it. *Whereas the big box stores are gigantic
accounts, they get freshly dug shipments weekly, even daily.
*

What you don't know or are misinformed about retail nurseries is
rather astonishing!!

Many retail nurseries and garden centers pride themselves on having
well-educated and highly trained personnel on staff. In fact, many
state nursery and landscape professional associations offer
professional certfication programs that require knowledge and training
equivalent to a 2 year hort degree that a great many retail garden
centers and nurseries take advantage of. I actually teach classes for
this certfication program in my area. We graduate several dozen CPH's
(Certified Professional Horticulturists) each session, the bulk of
which are nursery employees. And minimum wages are paid only to
seasonal part time staff, those who do the unloading of trucks,
schlepping of plants to cars and hauling sacks of soil amendments. We
don't even let these folks - generally high school or college students
looking for a summer job - water plants, as that takes knowledge and a
skill level these guys don't have.

Having been in both the retail and wholesale nursery industry for many
years, I think I can speak to the buying habits of retail nurseries,
at least the ones here on the west coast..... I was a buyer for a
number of years. They DO NOT bring in all their stock at once. Weekly
delivers from various vendors occur throughout the season but some
plant offerings - like many fruit trees - tend to be very seasonal and
the bulk are brought in very early in the season, often when dormant.
As they are sold off, they are replaced with fresh stock, if that
stock is still available. And the care plants receive at retail
nurseries far exceeds what is provided at any box store - unless you
purchase something at a box that is within days of its arrival, it is
very likley to be drought stressed or otherwise neglected. And they do
not necessarily offer the same stock from the same vendors - many of
the largest wholesale vendors offer grades of product: premium grades
go to the plant retailers/nurseries; lesser grades to the discounters
and box stores. And some vendors simply do not sell to any discounters
or box stores, period.

btw, I am a degreed horticulturist as well as professionally
certified. I have worked in the nursery industry consistently for
nearly 20 years but as a second and much more rewarding and satisfying
career. I started out at quite a bit more than minimum wage and make
as much now as I did when I left my corporate banking career. It's not
a huge salary but it is faaaar more than minimum wage.

gardengal wrote in message
...
On Nov 7, 11:28 am, Sheldumb Penisless brayed his
usual noise:
Retail plant nurseries pay little more than minimum
wage... no education is required
[snip]
What you don't know or are misinformed about retail nurseries is
rather astonishing!!
[snip]

If you want to see how truly misinformed Sheldumb is to visit rfc. A more
obnoxious, louder-braying, north-end-of-a-southbound-mule there isn't.
Shelly will happily **** himself just to prove his nonexistent points of
view. It's best to simply filter/kf his posts, unless you like banging your
head against the wall. His favorite reply to an informed post of the quality
you provided is to pull some ad hominen starting with your sexual tastes,
mixing in some ethnic slurs, and finally closing with an exploit or two
about his alternative lifestyle.

The Ranger

gardengal wrote:
On Nov 7, 11:28 am, brooklyn1 wrote:
sherwin dubren wrote:
julie wrote:
Someone with
a degree in horticulture wouldn't be schlepping plants around any
retail nursery.

Retail plant nurseries pay little more
than minimum wage... no education is required to schlepp plants, bales
of planting medium, and watering hoses about. However the nursery
stock at either is exactly the same, comes from the same local
wholesalers/growers. Also the big box stores don't hassle folks about
returns whereas the independant nurseries typically institute all
sorts of escape clauses for not replacing plants or returning full
purchase price. Another point to consider is that the typical
independant retail nursery buys all their stock in one fell swoop in
order to take advantage of bulk discounts... that same stock sits in
what is virtually a parking lot the entire season hoping for a buyer,
it gets sun, it hopefully gets watered regularly, it gets knocked
about by folks looking, and the nicest specimens are sold right away
and not replaced... what's left doesn't go into the ground until
someone buys and plants it. Whereas the big box stores are gigantic
accounts, they get freshly dug shipments weekly, even daily.


What you don't know or are misinformed about retail nurseries is
rather astonishing!!

Many retail nurseries and garden centers pride themselves on having
well-educated and highly trained personnel on staff. In fact, many
state nursery and landscape professional associations offer
professional certfication programs that require knowledge and training
equivalent to a 2 year hort degree that a great many retail garden
centers and nurseries take advantage of. I actually teach classes for
this certfication program in my area. We graduate several dozen CPH's
(Certified Professional Horticulturists) each session, the bulk of
which are nursery employees. And minimum wages are paid only to
seasonal part time staff, those who do the unloading of trucks,
schlepping of plants to cars and hauling sacks of soil amendments. We
don't even let these folks - generally high school or college students
looking for a summer job - water plants, as that takes knowledge and a
skill level these guys don't have.

Having been in both the retail and wholesale nursery industry for many
years, I think I can speak to the buying habits of retail nurseries,
at least the ones here on the west coast..... I was a buyer for a
number of years. They DO NOT bring in all their stock at once. Weekly
delivers from various vendors occur throughout the season but some
plant offerings - like many fruit trees - tend to be very seasonal and
the bulk are brought in very early in the season, often when dormant.
As they are sold off, they are replaced with fresh stock, if that
stock is still available. And the care plants receive at retail
nurseries far exceeds what is provided at any box store - unless you
purchase something at a box that is within days of its arrival, it is
very likley to be drought stressed or otherwise neglected. And they do
not necessarily offer the same stock from the same vendors - many of
the largest wholesale vendors offer grades of product: premium grades
go to the plant retailers/nurseries; lesser grades to the discounters
and box stores. And some vendors simply do not sell to any discounters
or box stores, period.

btw, I am a degreed horticulturist as well as professionally
certified. I have worked in the nursery industry consistently for
nearly 20 years but as a second and much more rewarding and satisfying
career. I started out at quite a bit more than minimum wage and make
as much now as I did when I left my corporate banking career. It's not
a huge salary but it is faaaar more than minimum wage.

Obviously, the sales people I encounter in my area big box stores
have not taken your classes.

The fruit tree stock may be fresh, but it is often misslabled. When
I checked on a misslabled tree recently, I discovered it had gone
through at least three sources from initial grower to distributor to
the final seller. It was impossible to trace the variety.

Sherwin

The Ranger wrote:
gardengal wrote in message
...
On Nov 7, 11:28 am, Sheldumb Penisless brayed his
usual noise:
Retail plant nurseries pay little more than minimum
wage... no education is required
[snip]
What you don't know or are misinformed about retail nurseries is
rather astonishing!!
[snip]

If you want to see how truly misinformed Sheldumb is to visit rfc. A more
obnoxious, louder-braying, north-end-of-a-southbound-mule there isn't.
Shelly will happily **** himself just to prove his nonexistent points of
view. It's best to simply filter/kf his posts, unless you like banging your
head against the wall. His favorite reply to an informed post of the quality
you provided is to pull some ad hominen starting with your sexual tastes,
mixing in some ethnic slurs, and finally closing with an exploit or two
about his alternative lifestyle.

The Ranger


First of all dummy, get my name right.

What in the world are you talking about? You obviously have a hard__
for me. That's your problem. You get the prize for obnoxious name
calling, which reflects your adolescent mentality.

Sherwin

They are *OK*. Yes, Fall is the best time to plant trees, but if you
are in zone 5 or north, it is getting kind of late to be planting trees
- October was best.

You might be better off looking for a real, full time nursery. You
might be able to find a tree that has a larger trunk, and one that will
get established and start bearing fruit much faster.

sherwin dubren wrote in message
...
The Ranger wrote:
gardengal wrote in message
...
On Nov 7, 11:28 am, Sheldumb Penisless brayed
his usual noise:
Retail plant nurseries pay little more than minimum
wage... no education is required
[snip]
What you don't know or are misinformed about retail nurseries is
rather astonishing!!
[snip]

If you want to see how truly misinformed Sheldumb is to visit rfc. A more
obnoxious, louder-braying, north-end-of-a-southbound-mule there isn't.
Shelly will happily **** himself just to prove his nonexistent points of
view. It's best to simply filter/kf his posts, unless you like banging
your head against the wall. His favorite reply to an informed post of the
quality you provided is to pull some ad hominen starting with your sexual
tastes, mixing in some ethnic slurs, and finally closing with an exploit
or two about his alternative lifestyle.

First of all dummy, get my name right.
[snip Sherwin's rant]
Sherwin, Sherwin, Sherwin... Did you not looking at the trail of names
above? Or are you such a prick that you allow reading comprehension to get
in your way? Here, let me post only the name I was pointing out and then
highlight the difference so you won't be so quick to jump up and down and
wave your arms about next time.

I was responding to gardengal in *her* message (message id:
) who
responded to Sheldon Katz (aka "brooklyn1," "Penmart01," "Penmart10," and
"Sheldumb") in message id : .

But don't believe me. Go back and look up the thread, see it with your own
eyes.

So, please, follow your own advice "dummy."

The Ranger