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How Soon To Plant After Using Roundup?
On Sun, 04 May 2003 14:13:14 GMT, "Vox Humana"
wrote: wrote I'm in the process of clearing a grassy area near my house. I've applied Roundup to kill the grass and will either remove the dead grass completely or just turn it over. I plan to put ornamental shrubs and some perennials in this area after the bed if prepared. How long should I wait before putting in the new plants? What did the label say? Ditto. My vague recollection is that it takes just 2-3 days for Roundup to break down(!), and certainly plants (weeds) grow and thrive very shortly after the treated ones shrivel and brown. By the time you clear the dead stuff, it *should* be fine. But do check the label. |
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How Soon To Plant After Using Roundup?
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#3
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How Soon To Plant After Using Roundup?
On Sun, 04 May 2003 10:38:36 -0400, Tom Randy
wrote: On Sun, 04 May 2003 09:12:42 -0400, marcnew wrote: I'm in the process of clearing a grassy area near my house. I've applied Roundup to kill the grass and will either remove the dead grass completely or just turn it over. I plan to put ornamental shrubs and some perennials in this area after the bed if prepared. How long should I wait before putting in the new plants? READ the lable as Ralph Snodsmith always said. By the way is he still doing his Sunday show? Haven't heard him in a LONG time since my local AM station stopped running him. He's on WOR Sunday morning from 8 to 10. Great program, although he's a bit anal about the Asian Longhorn beetle. Try this ... http://www.nj.com/wor/popup/index.frame |
#4
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How Soon To Plant After Using Roundup?
You are dead wrong....
On Sun, 04 May 2003 16:04:20 GMT, Phisherman wrote: RoundUp does not contaminate the soil like some other plant killers. "Nature, left alone, is in perfect balance. Harmful insects and plant diseases are always present, but do not occur in nature to an extent which requires the use of poisonous chemicals. The sensible approach to disease and insect control is to grow sturdy crops in a healthy environment." Masanobu Fukuoka, One Straw Revolution--1978 |
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How Soon To Plant After Using Roundup?
Tom Jaszewski wrote:
Glyphosate attacks some vital steps in the chemical defense system of plants, reducing their ability to control root-infecting fungi. Rampaging fungi hasten the death of the plant, and may in part explain why it has taken so long for weeds to develop resistance to this herbicide. Did you just make that up? Glyphosate is a protein synthesis inhibitor. (I thought it was a chlorophyll inhibitor, but I looked it up; it inhibits 5-enolpyruvyl-shikimate-3 phosphate synthase, a.k.a. "ESPS".) Once the plant is crippled, opportunistic fungi may attack the roots, but Roundup will kill the plants whether there are any fungi or not. Regards, Bob |
#7
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How Soon To Plant After Using Roundup?
So long? Glyphosate has not been out long enough for anything to have
evolved significant resistance. If you cannot support your diatribes with legitimate science then you should shut up. Or take your rants to alt.gardens.religious.superstioutions.instead.of.s cience There is no legitimate science that supports your statements against glyphosate. It is widely considered to be among the safest and most environmentally friendly agricultural chemicals. I'd prefer everyone used chemicals like glyphosate instead of the truly noxious "organic" insecticides like rotenone and pyrethrum which are highly toxic and deadly to fish. But because god made them in plants, or some such idiotic rationale, they are holy while truly effective and safe agrichemicals like glyphosate are the work of satan. Fools On Sun, 04 May 2003 10:44:10 -0700, Tom Jaszewski wrote: | | |Glyphosate attacks some vital steps in the chemical defense system of |plants, reducing their ability to control root-infecting fungi. |Rampaging fungi hasten the death of the plant, and may in part explain |why it has taken so long for weeds to develop resistance to this |herbicide. | | |On Sun, 04 May 2003 09:43:31 -0700, Tom Jaszewski wrote: | |You are dead wrong.... | | | |On Sun, 04 May 2003 16:04:20 GMT, Phisherman wrote: | |RoundUp does not contaminate the soil like |some other plant killers. | | | |"Nature, left alone, is in perfect balance. |Harmful insects and plant diseases are always present, |but do not occur in nature to an extent which requires the use of poisonous chemicals. |The sensible approach to disease and insect control is to grow sturdy crops in a healthy environment." | |Masanobu Fukuoka, One Straw Revolution--1978 | | | |"Nature, left alone, is in perfect balance. |Harmful insects and plant diseases are always present, |but do not occur in nature to an extent which requires the use of poisonous chemicals. |The sensible approach to disease and insect control is to grow sturdy crops in a healthy environment." | |Masanobu Fukuoka, One Straw Revolution--1978 |
#8
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How Soon To Plant After Using Roundup?
On Sun, 04 May 2003 16:04:20 GMT, Phisherman wrote:
On Sun, 04 May 2003 08:12:42 -0500, wrote: I'm in the process of clearing a grassy area near my house. I've applied Roundup to kill the grass and will either remove the dead grass completely or just turn it over. I plan to put ornamental shrubs and some perennials in this area after the bed if prepared. How long should I wait before putting in the new plants? There's very little wait. RoundUp does not contaminate the soil like some other plant killers. Bottom line is follow the rule: Read the label. Hmm... http://archive.greenpeace.org/~usa/r...sity/glyp.html |
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How Soon To Plant After Using Roundup?
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#10
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How Soon To Plant After Using Roundup?
On Sun, 04 May 2003 23:12:34 GMT, animaux wrote:
Hmm... http://archive.greenpeace.org/~usa/r...sity/glyp.html Glyphosate Fact Sheet This fact sheet describes the basic properties of glyphosate and the issues surrounding glyphosate resistance and weed control. Glyphosate is a broad spectrum herbicide used to kill crop weeds. Monsanto’s trade name for this is Roundup. Roundup Ready crops are engineered to withstand exposure to glyphosate. This allows applications of the herbicide after crop emergence, killing weeds but not Roundup resistant crop plants such as RRS (Roundup Ready Soybeans). Description Chemically, glyphosate is an organophosphate like many other pesticides but it does not affect the nervous system as other organophosphates do. It is a broad spectrum, non-selective herbicide which kills all plants, including grasses, broad leaf and woody plants. It is absorbed mainly through the leaves and is transported around the whole plant, killing all parts of it. It acts by inhibiting a biochemical pathway, the shikimic acid pathway. At low levels of application it acts as a growth regulator. There are three forms of glyphosate used as weed killers; glyphosate-isopropylammonium and glyphosate-sesquiodium patented by Monsanto and glyphosate-trimesium, patented by ICI (now Zeneca). Other common brand names are Rodeo, Accord and Vision. Glyphosate is technically extremely difficult to measure in environmental samples. Only a few laboratories have the sophisticated equipment and techniques necessary. This means that data is often lacking on residue levels in food and the environment and existing data may not be reliable. Use In Weed Control Glyphosate product sales are worth $1,200 million a year. In the US, glyphosate was used on about 12-25 million acres annually in the 1980s. In the UK it was used on almost 800,000 acres in 1994. Because it is broad spectrum in action it is used to control a great variety of annual, biennial, and perennial grasses, sedges, broad leafed weeds and woody shrubs. It is used in fruit orchards, vineyards, conifer plantations and many plantation crops (e.g. coffee, tea, bananas); in pre-crop, post-weed emergence in a wide range of crops (including soybean, cereals, vegetables and cotton); on non-crop areas (e.g. road shoulders and rights of way); in cereal stubble; forestry; gardening and horticulture. Other uses of salts of glyphosate are in growth regulation in peanuts and in sugarcane to regulate growth and speed fruit ripening. Human Toxicity Because the shikimic acid pathway does not exist in animals, the acute toxicity of glyphosate is very low. Glyphosate can interfere with some enzyme functions in animals but symptoms of poisoning are only seen at very high doses. However, products containing glyphosate also contain other compounds which can be toxic. In particular most contain surfactants known as polyoxyethyleneamines (POEA). Some of these are much more toxic than glyphosate. These account for problems associated with worker exposure. They are serious irritants of the respiratory tract, eyes and skin and are contaminated with dioxane (not dioxin) which is a suspected carcinogen. Some are toxic to fish. In California, glyphosate is the third most commonly-reported cause of pesticide related illness among agricultural workers. Glyphosate is the most frequent cause of complaints to the UK’s Health and Safety Executive’s Pesticides Incident Appraisal Panel. New formulations, with less irritating surfactants, have been developed by Monsanto (e.g. Roundup Biactive), but cheaper, older preparations are still available. Environmental Toxicity Glyphosate is one of the most toxic herbicides, with many species of wild plants being damaged or killed by applications of less than 10 micrograms per plant. Glyphosate can be more damaging to wild flora than many other herbicides, as aerial spraying with glyphosate can give average drifts of 1200 to 2500 feet and ground spraying with glyphosate may cause damage to sensitive plants up to 300 feet from the field sprayed. Glyphosate use is thought to affect hedgerow trees, causing die-back, and may reduce trees' winter hardiness and resistance to fungal disease The direct toxicity of glyphosate to mammals and birds is low. However, its effect on flora can have a damaging effect on mammals and birds through habitat destruction. The US EPA concluded that many endangered species of plants, as well as the Houston toad, may be at risk from glyphosate use. Fish and invertebrates are more sensitive to formulations of glyphosate. As with humans, the surfactants are responsible for much of the harm . Toxicity is increased with higher water temperatures, and pH. In Australia, guidelines state that most formulations of glyphosate should not be used in or near water because of their toxic effects on tadpoles and adult frogs. The newer, non-irritant formulations such as Roundup Biactive are not included in this advice. Of nine herbicides tested for their toxicity to soil microorganisms, glyphosate was found to be the second most toxic to a range of bacteria, fungi, actinomycetes and yeasts. However, when glyphosate comes into contact with the soil it rapidly binds to soil particles and is inactivated. Unbound glyphosate is degraded by bacteria. Low activity because of binding to soil particles suggests that glyphosate's effects on soil flora will be limited. However, some recent work shows that glyphosate can be readily released from certain types of soil particles, and therefore may leach into water or be taken up by plants. Impact Of Genetically Engineered Herbicide Resistant Crops The introduction of crops engineered to be resistant to glyphosate could have two particularly damaging effects. Firstly, it will increase the use of the herbicide, and secondly, it may encourage the emergence of herbicide resistant weeds. Monsanto claim that the introduction of herbicide resistant crops will reduce the overall amount of herbicide used. They argue that glyphosate will replace other, more environmentally damaging herbicides, because only glyphosate need be used rather than several different compounds. They also argue that weed killer will be used less frequently on resistant crops. Importantly they also consider glyphosate to be 'environmentally friendly' and a 'safe' herbicide, basing this claim on its reduced soil particle binding and low toxicity to humans. Other herbicides used on soybeans and other crops are unquestionably harmful to the environment and human health. The question is whether glyphosate is really any less harmful and whether herbicide resistant plants will reduce the amount of potentially damaging chemical to the environment. Evaluating overall amount of use on a weight or volume basis does not allow for the differences in toxicity between chemicals. Weight or volume of total herbicide may decrease simply because glyphosate is more effective at killing plants than many other chemicals. Glyphosate is already the eleventh most widely used pesticide in the US on a volume basis. Its damaging impacts on the environment have already been described. Whether there will be a reduction in the number of times herbicide is used is also questionable. In their documents prepared for the US authorities, Monsanto say that under current regimes, between one and five applications of different herbicides or herbicide mixtures are needed to control weeds in soybean crops, while with Roundup Ready soybeans only "one or possibly two" applications of Roundup will be needed. Yet in their information for farmers in Argentina, Monsanto recommends Roundup be used with Roundup Ready soybeans before sowing, when the young plant has three to four leaves and then whenever the farmers find weeds. This is "at least twice and probably more frequently". Herbicide Resistance In Weeds One of the major concerns of weed scientists is that the emergence of herbicide resistant weeds may be encouraged by the use of herbicide resistant plants. Herbicide resistance arises in an analogous fashion to the emergence of antibiotic resistance in bacteria. Mutations occur in plants and when one arises which makes it resistant to the herbicide, it will have an advantage and grow and flourish when other plants are killed Resistance to glyphosate is easy to induce in plants in the laboratory. Monsanto claims resistance to glyphosate is unlikely to emerge in the field because it does not persist in soil. However, weed resistance to paraquat, an herbicide which has a shorter soil persistence than glyphosate, is already a serious problem. One weed specialist concluded, by comparison to paraquat, that "Presumably glyphosate resistance can also be obtained with multi-annual treatments" (Gressel, in Cassley et al, 1991). Roundup Ready soybeans are intended to be used with "multi-annual treatments" and so the emergence of resistance will be encouraged. Even before the increased use of glyphosate expected with the introduction of resistant crops, there has already been a report of glyphosate resistance in a weed which occurred in ryegrass in Australia. Glyphosate resistant weeds could also arise if there is gene flow between the soybean and a related wild plant or if the soybean survives to emerge as a weed ("a volunteer") in the subsequent crop. Gene flow is possible in the Far East where soybean originated and wild related plants exist. Herbicide resistant volunteers may be a problem where mild climates occur and overwintering of soybean is possible. Herbicide resistant crops are an expensive problem for farmers. Having weeds resistant to another herbicide, triazine, have been estimated to cost farmers up to $10 an acre in extra weed control expenditure. There would be an extra penalty for farmers growing glyphosate resistant crops if glyphosate resistant weeds evolved, because not only would they have to change their weed control practices but they would have paid a premium for the herbicide resistant seed in the first place. Thus herbicide resistant soybeans promise increased herbicide use and associated damage to the environment, together with an increased risk of weed resistance, which would be a costly problem for farmers. Sources: Active Ingredient Fact Sheet: Glyphosate. Pesticide News 33 pp28-29, September 1996. Breeze, V, Thomas, G & Butler, R (1992) Use of a model and toxicity data to predict risks to some wild plant species from drift of four herbicides. Annals of Allied Biology 121: 669-677 Carlisle S.M. & Trevors, J.T. (1988) Glyphosate in the environment. Water Soil and Air Pollution. 39: 409-420 Casley J C., Cussans G W & Atkin R K (eds) (1991) Herbicide resistance in weeds and crops. Oxford: Butterworth-Heinmann Marrs, R H, Williams, C T, Frost, A J & Plant, R A (1989) Assessment of the effects of herbicide spray drift on a range of plants of conservation interest. Environmental Pollution 59: 71- 86 New Scientist, 6 July 1996, p6 Petition for determination of nonregulated status of soybeans with a Roundup Ready gene. Agricultural Group of Monsanto to APHIS, USDA, 1993. US-EPA RED Facts: Glyphosate, September 1993 Yates W E., Akesson N B & Bayer D E (1978) Drift of glyphosate sprays applied with aerial and ground equipment. Weed Science 26 (6): 597-604 GREENPEACE, April 1997 1436 U St. NW, Washington DC 20009 This report © Greenpeace 1997 Original Article: http://www.greenpeaceusa.org/media/f...lyphosatetext. "Nature, left alone, is in perfect balance. Harmful insects and plant diseases are always present, but do not occur in nature to an extent which requires the use of poisonous chemicals. The sensible approach to disease and insect control is to grow sturdy crops in a healthy environment." Masanobu Fukuoka, One Straw Revolution--1978 |
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How Soon To Plant After Using Roundup?
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#13
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How Soon To Plant After Using Roundup?
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American)
MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 16 Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 19:11:15 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.27.54.120 X-Complaints-To: X-Trace: twister.austin.rr.com 1052161875 24.27.54.120 (Mon, 05 May 2003 14:11:15 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 14:11:15 CDT Organization: Road Runner - Texas Path: kermit!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news-west.rr.com!cyclone.austin.rr.com!twister.austin.r r.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: kermit rec.gardens:224507 On Mon, 5 May 2003 00:40:26 -0400, "David J. Bockman" wrote: I'd be interested in any peer-reviewed scientific literature citing the dangers of using CCA treated lumber in my garden as well. Dave http://www.in.gov/idem/planning/cca/ccafactsheet.html http://www.extension.umn.edu/extensi...tedLumber.html http://www.mchd.com/pdf/ccawood.pdf http://www.wolmanizedwood.com/consumer2.html |
#14
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How Soon To Plant After Using Roundup?
Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings
NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library1-aux.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Mon May 5 22:13:56 2003 NNTP-Posting-Host: !^3n91k-XS6h:aQA9`&)AoV7e (Encoded at Airnews!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564 Path: kermit!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.maxwell.sy r.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-01!sn-xit-08!supernews.com!news.airnews.net!cabal12.airnews. net!usenet Xref: kermit rec.gardens:224628 Most treated lumber now uses arsenic-free preservatives... all these posts refer to the old type On Mon, 5 May 2003 00:40:26 -0400, "David J. Bockman" wrote: Tom, No thanks on the google search.... I was hoping you could point me to whatever peer reviewed literature supported your claim. I'd be interested in any peer-reviewed scientific literature citing the dangers of using CCA treated lumber in my garden as well. Dave "Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message .. . David, For a guy that uses treated lumber in his gardens, its unlikely to prove of any value. If you are really interested a simple search of "Glyphosate soil biology" in google will provide both sides of the research spectrum. On Sun, 4 May 2003 15:19:36 -0400, "David J. Bookmark" wrote: Tom, Would you mind posting any links to peer-reviewed scientific literature on this subject? Dave "Nature, left alone, is in perfect balance. Harmful insects and plant diseases are always present, but do not occur in nature to an extent which requires the use of poisonous chemicals. The sensible approach to disease and insect control is to grow sturdy crops in a healthy environment." Masanobu Fukuoka, One Straw Revolution--1978 |
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How Soon To Plant After Using Roundup?
Could you please explain solarizing On Mon, 05 May 2003 02:11:34 -0700, "Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D. P.A." wrote: Phisherman wrote: On Sun, 04 May 2003 08:12:42 -0500, wrote: I'm in the process of clearing a grassy area near my house. I've applied Roundup to kill the grass and will either remove the dead grass completely or just turn it over. I plan to put ornamental shrubs and some perennials in this area after the bed if prepared. How long should I wait before putting in the new plants? There's very little wait. RoundUp does not contaminate the soil like some other plant killers. Bottom line is follow the rule: Read the label. Aside from the usual controversies, it's an expensive method for clearing large areas. Solarizing is thorough, doesn't miss any weeds, and requires nothing more than a reusable $5.00 tarp. |
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