There are times when an 'off topic' topic is necessary. I feel this is one
of those times.
I sent the following message to the Premier of my province. Should you feel
the same way I do then you will know what to do.
These people need help and they need it now. Not tomorrow-now.
Gary
Fort Langley, BC
Canada

Mr. Premier
There are many problems in your office that require 'looking after'. The
problems in the aftermath of the disaster resulting in the earthquake in the
Indian Ocean must take precedent.
I send this message to you because I don't know who else to contact. The
people there need help now! Not tomorrow but now. And they need it now in
large numbers....large and immediately spread over a vast area. It is a
massive problem!
I can only hope that the 'ones' in 'charge' feel the same sense of urgency
that I feel. And that they are able to meet the necessary requirements.
Gary Davis
Fort Langley, BC

Feeling quite helpless on the other side of the planet, I've given $100.00
to Medicine Sans Frontieres (http://www.msf.org) they already have Doctors,
support staff, and medicine on the ground in Aceh. It's a great
organization, in my opinion, with the vast majority of one's contribution
going towards actual relief and very little for 'overhead'.

The American wing of this organization is 'Doctors Without Borders'
(http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/). They make online donations very
easy, and of course it's tax deductible.

Dave

"gary" wrote in message
...
There are times when an 'off topic' topic is necessary. I feel this is one
of those times.
I sent the following message to the Premier of my province. Should you
feel
the same way I do then you will know what to do.
These people need help and they need it now. Not tomorrow-now.
Gary
Fort Langley, BC
Canada

Mr. Premier
There are many problems in your office that require 'looking after'.
The
problems in the aftermath of the disaster resulting in the earthquake in
the
Indian Ocean must take precedent.
I send this message to you because I don't know who else to contact.
The
people there need help now! Not tomorrow but now. And they need it now
in
large numbers....large and immediately spread over a vast area. It is a
massive problem!
I can only hope that the 'ones' in 'charge' feel the same sense of
urgency
that I feel. And that they are able to meet the necessary requirements.
Gary Davis
Fort Langley, BC

No, it's not necessary. Post your bedwetting whiny crap elsewhere.

Maybe those idiots will finally install some detection equipment. Now
that's necessary.

As for the lives lost, I think the (old Jay Leno) Doritos ad said it
best- Don't worry, they'll make more.

P.S. Anyone else notice that it took just three days for someone to
figure out a way to blame the US for it?

John Thomas wrote:

Maybe those idiots will finally install some detection equipment.

As I understand it, the project is underway, but will not be active
until sometime in 2005.

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:10:35 -0500, Chelsea Christenson
wrote:

John Thomas wrote:

Maybe those idiots will finally install some detection equipment.

As I understand it, the project is underway, but will not be active
until sometime in 2005.

If you are referring to a tsunami detection system in the Indian Ocean
I understand that there are no plans but it is being discussed now.
The issue is that this is an expensive system to detect an event that
has not occurred in recent history (until last Sunday).

Developing countries are not inclined to spend big sums to protect
against such remote threats. It has nothing to do with intelligence.
In fact, it is logical. Unfortunately, logic does not control natural
events and thus disasters happen.

Hysterical demands "to do something" invariably result in a waste of
scarce resources.

Similarly, there is no Atlantic Ocean system to protect the eastern US
coast. There are no "big" fault zones in the Atlantic like those that
exist in the Pacific, hence a reduced, but non-zero, tsunami threat.
At least, that is what the scientists say. I expect that will also be
subject to renewed debate.

I only hope that a thoughtful debate trumps the political pressure.

Sigh.

John

John Bachman expounded:

If you are referring to a tsunami detection system in the Indian Ocean
I understand that there are no plans but it is being discussed now.
The issue is that this is an expensive system to detect an event that
has not occurred in recent history (until last Sunday).

I heard that the head of the Australian government is looking into
funding this system (now).

--
Ann, Gardening in zone 6a
Just south of Boston, MA
********************************

what i heard was a detection system would take 2 hours to come up with a warning and since land masses in the indian ocean where much closer together than in the pacific the wave would hit before or at about the same time as the warning could be issued....what i also heard was if you are ever at the coast and the sea suddenly goes out a very long way for no apparent reason don't call your freinds and family over to come and look, instead run away very fast.

I have to agree. If they have any schooling at all I cant understand why they dont
1. teach about hazards like earthquakes, tsunami, fires, etc.
2. teach every child to swim.
many of the people drowned because they couldnt swim well enough to a tree or
something between waves. during waves nothing can be done.
but I doubt it takes 2 hours. I heard that the warning goes out immediately when
quakes over 5(?) are recorded. they dont wait for an actual tsunami to be seen.
sorta like doppler radar showing "signature" triggers the alarm horns going off.
Ingrid

Eyebright wrote:
what i heard was a detection system would take 2 hours to come up with
a warning and since land masses in the indian ocean where much closer
together than in the pacific the wave would hit before or at about the
same time as the warning could be issued....what i also heard was if
you are ever at the coast and the sea suddenly goes out a very long way
for no apparent reason don't call your freinds and family over to come
and look, instead run away very fast.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 13:49:37 GMT, wrote:

I have to agree. If they have any schooling at all I cant understand why they dont
1. teach about hazards like earthquakes, tsunami, fires, etc.
2. teach every child to swim.
many of the people drowned because they couldnt swim well enough to a tree or
something between waves. during waves nothing can be done.

Yes, and after every terrorist attack we will teach them how to avoid
terrorist attacks. And after every snow storm we will teach them to
ski. And after every drought we will teach them how to find water.
etc. ad nauseum.

After every disaster the second guessers beginning plying their
skills. But the next disaster is one that they did not think about
and the process repeats.

but I doubt it takes 2 hours. I heard that the warning goes out immediately when
quakes over 5(?) are recorded. they dont wait for an actual tsunami to be seen.
sorta like doppler radar showing "signature" triggers the alarm horns going off.

Such a warning system would quickly be perceived as chicken little and
each subsequent warning would be ignored. Ever been in a mall when
the fire alarm goes off?

The magnitude of the quake is not all telling. Earth quakes are of
two types: side slippage and vertical. A side slipping quake of any
magnitude will not create a tsunami. It takes vertical movement to
produce the wave. Therefore, detecting a quake from afar, which is
easy, is not sufficient. Sensors must be on the site to detect
vertical movement. Those sensors do not exist in the Indian or
Atlantic oceans.

Ingrid

Eyebright wrote:
what i heard was a detection system would take 2 hours to come up with
a warning and since land masses in the indian ocean where much closer
together than in the pacific the wave would hit before or at about the
same time as the warning could be issued....what i also heard was if
you are ever at the coast and the sea suddenly goes out a very long way
for no apparent reason don't call your freinds and family over to come
and look, instead run away very fast.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Sometimes ancient wisdom is the best. I have read that one of the strongest
"taboos" of the native Hawaiian culture involved the danger of turning one's
back to the ocean. (I'm guessing they had a similar one about sleeping on or
near the beach). Obviously observation had taught them valuable lessons
which were inculcated in future generations via the mechanism of religion.
(I imagine something similar dictated many of the Jewish dietary laws).


" what i heard was a detection system would take 2 hours to come up with
a warning and since land masses in the indian ocean where much closer
together than in the pacific the wave would hit before or at about the
same time as the warning could be issued....what i also heard was if
you are ever at the coast and the sea suddenly goes out a very long way
for no apparent reason don't call your freinds and family over to come
and look, instead run away very fast.


--
Eyebright

Obviously observation had taught them valuable lessons which were inculcated
in future generations via the mechanism of religion. (I imagine something
similar dictated many of the Jewish dietary laws). BRBR

Actually, not many of the kosher laws are known to stem from health
observations. Ancient people did not have the statistical mechanisms available
today. According to one theory, pigs are not kosher because they were
worshipped by the Egyptians. Recent studies have found that dairy products &
meat eaten together are harder to digest, but the kosher prohibition against
eating milk with meat stems from a line in the Bible: "You shall not boil a kid
in its mother's milk." This is said to be out of respect for the mother goat's
feelings, since you just killed her baby. Poultry was not considered "meat"
until a rabbinic decision in the Seventeenth Century.
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"A tree never hits an automobile except in self defense." - Woody Allen

as somebody who is a microbiologist and who started doing grad work in parasitology,
kosher laws are right on with respect to what is wholesome and healthy food. I am
sure it has nothing to do with scientific analysis and everything to do with how
people learn what foods are edible and which arent, and a lot to do with the wisdom
of "old wives" which are much maligned. Ingrid

(Iris Cohen) wrote:

Obviously observation had taught them valuable lessons which were inculcated
in future generations via the mechanism of religion. (I imagine something
similar dictated many of the Jewish dietary laws). BRBR

Actually, not many of the kosher laws are known to stem from health
observations. Ancient people did not have the statistical mechanisms available
today. According to one theory, pigs are not kosher because they were
worshipped by the Egyptians. Recent studies have found that dairy products &
meat eaten together are harder to digest, but the kosher prohibition against
eating milk with meat stems from a line in the Bible: "You shall not boil a kid
in its mother's milk." This is said to be out of respect for the mother goat's
feelings, since you just killed her baby. Poultry was not considered "meat"
until a rabbinic decision in the Seventeenth Century.
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"A tree never hits an automobile except in self defense." - Woody Allen



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

On 01 Jan 2005 13:45:11 GMT, (Iris Cohen) wrote:

Obviously observation had taught them valuable lessons which were inculcated
in future generations via the mechanism of religion. (I imagine something
similar dictated many of the Jewish dietary laws). BRBR

Actually, not many of the kosher laws are known to stem from health
observations. Ancient people did not have the statistical mechanisms available
today. According to one theory, pigs are not kosher because they were
worshipped by the Egyptians.

Also (later, but important) the Greeks.

Another theory is that raising pigs forces compromises in your
lifestyle. Pigs cannot be driven the way cattle, sheep, and goats are;
if you are going to raise pigs, you are going to have to stay put. A
pastoral people that takes to raising pigs will settle down and become
too much like its farming neighbors.

--
Chris Green

In article , Christopher Green
wrote:

On 01 Jan 2005 13:45:11 GMT, (Iris Cohen) wrote:

Obviously observation had taught them valuable lessons which were
inculcated
in future generations via the mechanism of religion. (I imagine something
similar dictated many of the Jewish dietary laws). BRBR

Actually, not many of the kosher laws are known to stem from health
observations. Ancient people did not have the statistical mechanisms
available
today. According to one theory, pigs are not kosher because they were
worshipped by the Egyptians.

The dietary laws are indeed cultic rather than health oriented. But
another theory re. pigs is that boars were once sacred to Adonai (a
Semitic plural that means "Plethora of Adonises" implying a dying-&-reborn
fertility daemon akin to Tamuz/Damuzi). The Adonai/Adonis myth that
survived among the Greeks is of Semitic origin & was adopted by the Greeks
via Phoenicia & Assyria. Adonis was slain by a boar & dwelt one season
with Persephone in the dark realm, one with Aphrodite above ground, & the
rest of the year where he pleased. It's a close parallel to the Damuzi
myth of the western Semitic tribes, among whom Abraham was born. So just
as Atargatis worshippers would not eat fish which were sacred to
Atargatis, so too Adonai worshippers would not eat pigs or boars which
were sacred to Adonai. This theory has the stronger likelihood because
Jews did not ban the eating of animals sacred to other deities or they
wouldn't be able to eat any meat at all, but the theory that the pig was
once sacred to Adonai has less appeal to practicing monotheists who
deplore the possibility that Yahweh/Adonai has his origin in the same
place as all other deities: human myth & imagination.

As a gardening topic, when Adonis died beneath the very pine tree that had
long before given birth to him, transient windflowers or anemones sprang
up from drops of his blood.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 20:15:34 GMT, Christopher Green
wrote:

On 01 Jan 2005 13:45:11 GMT, (Iris Cohen) wrote:

Obviously observation had taught them valuable lessons which were inculcated
in future generations via the mechanism of religion. (I imagine something
similar dictated many of the Jewish dietary laws). BRBR

Actually, not many of the kosher laws are known to stem from health
observations. Ancient people did not have the statistical mechanisms available
today. According to one theory, pigs are not kosher because they were
worshipped by the Egyptians.

Also (later, but important) the Greeks.

Another theory is that raising pigs forces compromises in your
lifestyle. Pigs cannot be driven the way cattle, sheep, and goats are;
if you are going to raise pigs, you are going to have to stay put. A
pastoral people that takes to raising pigs will settle down and become
too much like its farming neighbors.

I read someplace that the reason being that because pigs are closely
related to humans and can transmit the greatest number of pathogens
because of this, but I have never read anything else that
substantiated that point of view.

Em
-----
When in trouble or in doubt,
Run in circles, scream and shout.