"Dennis Edward" wrote:

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
.. .


I went to HD today. Same thing. Nearly everything was wilted BADLY, or
just plain dead.


I went to HD a few weeks ago, and asked about a problem with my tomatoes --
numerous holes in the leaves. The salescritter told me in no uncertain terms
that it was caused by watering in sunny weather -- the drops of water cause
lensing and burn the leaves. Uh-huh. I did a little research and discovered
the *real* problem -- flea beetles.

I won't be asking them for advice again....

You expect a lot for a little over minimum wage and low prices, don't
you?

I suppose that sales person is supposed to study every plant they sell
and every bug, disease and bad human practice inflicted on each one so
they are prepared to play plant doctor for the public.


DiGiTAL ViNYL (no email)
Zone 6b/7, Westchester Co, NY, 1 mile off L.I.Sound
3rd year gardener
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/royalf...=/2055&.src=ph

"DigitalVinyl" wrote in message
...
"Dennis Edward" wrote:

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
.. .


I went to HD today. Same thing. Nearly everything was wilted BADLY,
or
just plain dead.


I went to HD a few weeks ago, and asked about a problem with my
tomatoes --
numerous holes in the leaves. The salescritter told me in no uncertain
terms
that it was caused by watering in sunny weather -- the drops of water
cause
lensing and burn the leaves. Uh-huh. I did a little research and
discovered
the *real* problem -- flea beetles.

I won't be asking them for advice again....

You expect a lot for a little over minimum wage and low prices, don't
you?

I suppose that sales person is supposed to study every plant they sell
and every bug, disease and bad human practice inflicted on each one so
they are prepared to play plant doctor for the public.


I have received a lot of bad information at HD and Lowe's. It isn't limited
to the garden department. I would rather that someone tell me that they
don't know than to just make something up and/or sell me the wrong product.
I have no idea what they are paid and it makes no difference to me. When
they ask me if they can help and I ask a question, I expect them to give me
an informed answer or to tell me they don't know. I don't think that is
asking too much. You don't have to be highly trained or well paid to say "I
don't know."

" You don't have to be highly trained or well paid to say "I
don't know."

Actually in our culture you have to be trained to say I don't know
And it's not an easy thing to teach.

Even harder is to find someone who will flat out say I screwed up
instead of shifting blame.

As for Home Depot- they try to find that magic minimum level of
staffing that will get the goods out the door and in many cases it
means I don't go in the door unless there is no other alternative.
Yet I own their shares and have profitted handsomely.

"DigitalVinyl" wrote in message
...
"Dennis Edward" wrote:


You expect a lot for a little over minimum wage and low prices, don't
you?

I suppose that sales person is supposed to study every plant they sell
and every bug, disease and bad human practice inflicted on each one so
they are prepared to play plant doctor for the public.


A lot? Saying "I don't know" if they don't know is "a lot"? Saying "I'll get
someone who knows about these things" is "a lot" ? When I go into the
plumbing section and ask a question about plumbing or plumbing supplies, I
expect to get some kind of reasonable answer because 1) Home Depot in
particular advertises that their "knowledgable sales staff" can "answer your
questions", and 2) because as a general rule I expect a company and the
representatives thereof to know a thing or two about the business that they
are in. That means that electrical supply companies should know about
electrical supplies, furniture companies should know about furniture, etc
etc etc. No different for departments in something like HD.

Having said all that, there's just no way that this represented "high
expectations", any more than expecting the lumber staff to know the
difference between pine and cedar. And your reductio ad absurbitum of
turning my comment into a supposed expectation that they have a PHD in
biology doesn't do your argument or your credibility any good.

wrote in message
oups.com...
" You don't have to be highly trained or well paid to say "I
don't know."

Actually in our culture you have to be trained to say I don't know
And it's not an easy thing to teach.


I'm not sure that's cultural. More like genetic. :-)

You expect a lot for a little over minimum wage and low prices, don't
you?


Minimum wage? You're shittin me...... You honestly think I would work
somewhere that I have to put up with drunks, poorly mannered idiots, Mr &
Mrs Only Customer, assholes, sick *******s who literally cough in your face
in January, Idiots again, and the high and mighty know it alls who are gonna
argue with me about the difference in an annual and perennial when they saw
the "spoof" commercial on TV ,for minimum wage? Think again....Been at HD
for 5 yrs and make surprising $$$...I have several quals on the outside as
well as continuing education through 3 Hort depts at major Universities just
for kicks...Lowes around the corner HR person was in about 6 mos ago
"recruiting" ...They were on the "we'll pay you $1.50 more to come to
Lowes..When I told them my rate they didn't believe me so I showed them and
they were shocked....HD does not get employee discounts and Lowes does so
the pay is way lower (hence Lowes)

In article , "Vox Humana"
wrote:

"DigitalVinyl" wrote in message
...
"Dennis Edward" wrote:

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
.. .


I went to HD today. Same thing. Nearly everything was wilted BADLY,
or
just plain dead.


I went to HD a few weeks ago, and asked about a problem with my
tomatoes --
numerous holes in the leaves. The salescritter told me in no uncertain
terms
that it was caused by watering in sunny weather -- the drops of water
cause
lensing and burn the leaves. Uh-huh. I did a little research and
discovered
the *real* problem -- flea beetles.

I won't be asking them for advice again....

You expect a lot for a little over minimum wage and low prices, don't
you?

I suppose that sales person is supposed to study every plant they sell
and every bug, disease and bad human practice inflicted on each one so
they are prepared to play plant doctor for the public.

Often a place like Lowes has an employee or two SOMEWHERE in the building
who is very, very, very knowledgeable about gardening & could be as
helpful as anyone ever can be. Unfortunately they are apt to be low
seniority people working in plumbing or electrical aisles even if knowing
nothing in particular about plumbing or lighting.

I have received a lot of bad information at HD and Lowe's.

I've gotten crappy information from very fine nurseries too. I don't
expect much from the Lowe's or HD staff frankly, but there have been
exceptions.

I slipped into the nursery department at K Mart earlier this year & though
I don't usually bother about such things in such a place, I could not
resist telling the worker in that department that the azalea they had
labeled as 'Coral Bells' was incorrect because 'Coral Bells' was
hose-in-hose &ampt his was a single, & they might want to change the label
to "Kurume Pink" if they couldn't find out the specific cultivar, as many
likely customers do like to have that sort of information as correct as is
possible. The unconcerned worker said, "The wholesaler tags them, not us,"
&amp he really couldn't've cared less if someone bought a mislabeled plant
& never found out what it really was. Just one more reason to support the
best independent nurseries foremost, as there's a much better chance that
they will care, not that mislabeling can't happen even in the best places.

-paggers

It isn't limited
to the garden department. I would rather that someone tell me that they
don't know than to just make something up and/or sell me the wrong product.
I have no idea what they are paid and it makes no difference to me. When
they ask me if they can help and I ask a question, I expect them to give me
an informed answer or to tell me they don't know. I don't think that is
asking too much. You don't have to be highly trained or well paid to say "I
don't know."
--
Get your Paghat the Ratgirl T-Shirt he
http://www.paghat.com/giftshop.html
"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to
liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot." -Thomas Jefferson

"Dennis Edward" wrote:

"DigitalVinyl" wrote in message
.. .
"Dennis Edward" wrote:


You expect a lot for a little over minimum wage and low prices, don't
you?

I suppose that sales person is supposed to study every plant they sell
and every bug, disease and bad human practice inflicted on each one so
they are prepared to play plant doctor for the public.


A lot? Saying "I don't know" if they don't know is "a lot"?
Most people would see that as a major negative and feel the same
discouragement about a company. Just read two sentences down and
you'll see this is not an exceptable answer for you.

Saying "I'll get someone who knows about these things" is "a lot" ?
Assumes HD employs someone who knows whatever piece of information you
are asking.

When I go into the
plumbing section and ask a question about plumbing or plumbing supplies, I
expect to get some kind of reasonable answer because 1) Home Depot in
particular advertises that their "knowledgable sales staff" can "answer your
questions",
Wow, you really bought into that commercial advertisement, didn't you.

Mega-store sales people are not in the business of plumbing, more like
simply supplying parts. Honestly if you wanted old-style customer
service you'd have to go to that old hardware store that closed when
HD opened and everyone stopped shopping there. I don't expect anyone
at HD to be a plumber, carpenter, roofer, landscaper, machinist,
architect, electrician, stonemason, tile worker, cabinetry expert,
botanist, or anything else they sell supplies for. I'm lucky if I can
find a human being working there, and that goes for most stores that
aren't high-priced and catering to upper class. I expect them to low
prices and bulk and the sales people to be few and have little
knowledge. Its rare to find someone who does have knowledge, and I
attribute that to their personal employment history, personal
interests and none of it to their temporary employment with Home
Depot.

Oddly we don't expect a supermarket checkout to know which foods are
good for your particular situation, or how to assemble a meal. But we
expect a company that sells hardware parts to guide and instruct us on
how to use what they sell us. We expect them to educate us some. It's
weird, I would normally try to find information myself because in my
lifetime I seldom find people in businesses that are truly
knowledgeable. And when you do they want to be on the clock. Most
people freely pass along bad information. Just read newsgroups and you
see it happening.

and 2) because as a general rule I expect a company and the
representatives thereof to know a thing or two about the business that they
are in.
They know how to ring things up. :-) Sometimes

That means that electrical supply companies should know about
electrical supplies, furniture companies should know about furniture, etc
etc etc. No different for departments in something like HD.
Except it is totally impractical business model that you will never
see. To staff every department during all hours with a knowledgeable
person about that department is never going to happen. That's the
difference between an electrical supply company and a mega store. As
the complexity of the base businesses increases the quality of the
support has to drop. They CAN'T know enough about all the areas they
cover. Not without raising their prices. An electrical supply company
focuses on one segment and dedicates multiple employees just to it. A
HD is never gonna come close to that knowledge level.

Having said all that, there's just no way that this represented "high
expectations", any more than expecting the lumber staff to know the
difference between pine and cedar.
They do, they can point to the sign that says pine and the sign that
says cedar. I'm sure if they had dedicated people whose career was HD
or woodworking they would know about wood but be rather ignorant about
plumbing--but chances are that still wouldn't satisfy customers who
were looking for advice on how to do a home-plumbing job. The wood
expert would have to point you to the only guy who knew somethign.
He'd be the guy who has a line of four other people waiting for him to
answer their questions.

And your reductio ad absurbitum of
turning my comment into a supposed expectation that they have a PHD in
biology doesn't do your argument or your credibility any good.

Well I've been gardening for three years, done lots of reading,
experimented with about 100 different varieties and still need to come
here and ask stupid questions from time to time.

DiGiTAL ViNYL (no email)
Zone 6b/7, Westchester Co, NY, 1 mile off L.I.Sound
3rd year gardener
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/royalf...=/2055&.src=ph

Vox Humana wrote:



The Wal-Mart garden center near me a complete mess, as is the rest of the
store. It always looks like a cyclone just struck. Lowe's has consistently
better plants than either HD, Wal-Mart, or K-Mart. I suspect, as you point
out, that the quality of the garden department depends primarily on how
interested management is in that department. I would be afraid to buy any
plants from my HD if I didn't see them being unloaded. I know that anything
on the sales floor has been stresses over and over due to improper care (or
neglect).

I mostly just lurk here because I know squat about plants, but I always
pick Lowe's when I can find what I am looking for there. The plants at
the local nursery are about 4x's as expensive, and the plants at HD, W-M
and the grocery tent look sad compared to the Lowe's selection. It looks
like they take good care of their plants, or at least depend on a
reputable vendor.

A

"DigitalVinyl" wrote in message
...
"Dennis Edward" wrote:

Oddly we don't expect a supermarket checkout to know which foods are
good for your particular situation, or how to assemble a meal. But we
expect a company that sells hardware parts to guide and instruct us on
how to use what they sell us. We expect them to educate us some. It's
weird, I would normally try to find information myself because in my
lifetime I seldom find people in businesses that are truly
knowledgeable. And when you do they want to be on the clock. Most
people freely pass along bad information. Just read newsgroups and you
see it happening.


I don't expect the check-out person at the supermarket to know much more
than how to ring-up the order. That said, I seldom check-out where the
clerk fails to identify at least one produce item. For example, no one know
what a leek is. "Is that leaf lettuce" is the usual response to anything
that is green and isn't cabbage or iceberg lettuce. I do expect the people
IN the produce department to know something about what they are selling. I
would expect a produce department worker to know which apples are better for
pies or which onions are better eaten raw. I would expect the produce
department worker to know how to store the items and how long they keep.
Same with the meat department. They should know how to cook various cuts of
meat and know if they are less-tender or better for grilling.

I do think that people working in hardware stores should know something
about hardware. Why even have clerks if they can't help you select the
appropriate items for a project? You could just have someone stock the
store at night and the open the place to the public who could use the
self-checkout lanes. I don't expect them to rescreen my windows, but I do
think they should know the qualities of the various types of screen they
sell. They should know about spline and the tools you need to do the job.
Sometimes you luck-out and find someone who really knows about hardware, but
usually you get someone who really doesn't know much and who spends all
their time on the cell phone talking to management or customers who call in.
Now THAT really ****es me off. I don't think there is anything more rude
than to answer the phone when you are in the middle of helping a customer.

"Angrie.Woman" wrote in message
. ..
Vox Humana wrote:



The Wal-Mart garden center near me a complete mess, as is the rest of
the
store. It always looks like a cyclone just struck. Lowe's has
consistently
better plants than either HD, Wal-Mart, or K-Mart. I suspect, as you
point
out, that the quality of the garden department depends primarily on how
interested management is in that department. I would be afraid to buy
any
plants from my HD if I didn't see them being unloaded. I know that
anything
on the sales floor has been stresses over and over due to improper care
(or
neglect).

I mostly just lurk here because I know squat about plants, but I always
pick Lowe's when I can find what I am looking for there. The plants at
the local nursery are about 4x's as expensive, and the plants at HD, W-M
and the grocery tent look sad compared to the Lowe's selection. It looks
like they take good care of their plants, or at least depend on a
reputable vendor.

At least the Lowe's near me has the common sense to move the dead plants to
the receiving area. That leaves the decent plants on the sales floor.

I like to shop garden centers and spend part of my weekend at such place.
Dedicated garden centers have a much better selection than box stores. They
have more unusual plants and wider choice of sizes. The plants are
generally healthier. The advice is much better. The people who shop garden
centers seem to be more friendly. The prices are often higher, but not
always. If you just want a flat of impatiens, then you are probably just as
well off at Lowe's but for shrubs and trees, the garden center is probably
your best bet. To get the best price you often have to buy things after
they have flowered and no one is interested. People what instant
gratification, so once the daylily or hydrangea has stopped blooming, they
aren't interested. The fall is usually a good time to get bargains on plants
at garden centers because they don't want to carry them over to the spring.

Since we're comparing apples to oranges.... What I'd like to know is
this. If HD employees get paid so much more, then why can't they
organize their merchandise so you can find something? I'd shop at a
Lowes anytime over a HD because of this reason. Home Depot is also very
dark. What's with that lighting? Their aisles seem like they're going
into the pit of hell.

Pat

"DigitalVinyl" wrote in message
...
"Dennis Edward" wrote:

Mega-store sales people are not in the business of plumbing, more like
simply supplying parts. Honestly if you wanted old-style customer
service you'd have to go to that old hardware store that closed when
HD opened and everyone stopped shopping there. I don't expect anyone
at HD to be a plumber, carpenter, roofer, landscaper, machinist,
architect, electrician, stonemason, tile worker, cabinetry expert,
botanist, or anything else they sell supplies for. I'm lucky if I can
find a human being working there, and that goes for most stores that

Strangely, I *do* find the HD people in the plumbing and electrical sections
to be quite knowledgeable. Maybe it's a regional thing.

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...

Sometimes you luck-out and find someone who really knows about hardware,
but
usually you get someone who really doesn't know much and who spends all
their time on the cell phone talking to management or customers who call
in.
Now THAT really ****es me off. I don't think there is anything more rude
than to answer the phone when you are in the middle of helping a customer.


I've got the phone number for my local HD on my cel phone quick-dial. When I
can't find someone to help me with something (and I don't necessarily mean a
question -- often it's "I need one of *those* brought down"), I'll phone the
number and say "Hi, I'm in the flooring section, I've been here way too
long. Please send someone.". Needless to say, to make me take the time to
look up the number and program it in, it had to be a real ongoing problem.

I've identified certain people in certain departments who I absolutely will
not deal with. If they're the only one available, I walk away.

Now mind you, to put this in perspective, I've been doing reno's on my house
for 3 years now, so I'm *very* familiar with HD. As is my truck. I just turn
it on, say "mush", and it takes me there.

"Angrie.Woman" wrote in message
. ..
Vox Humana wrote:


pick Lowe's when I can find what I am looking for there. The plants at the
local nursery are about 4x's as expensive, and the plants at HD, W-M and
the grocery tent look sad compared to the Lowe's selection. It looks

Gonna go just slightly off-topic here -- or actually go back on-topic, since
it's a gardening-related comment :0) -- This year, when I was trying to buy
cell inserts for my growing trays, I discovered that none of the big box
outlets (HD, Rona, and the like) are selling straight cell inserts for
around $1. Instead they are selling inserts that have been cut into 6 pieces
(not very cleanly), wrapped with a light cardboard bit of packaging, and are
being sold for $2.50. Who thought of that little gem, I wonder? Fortunately
Art Knapps didn't buy into this gimmick.