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#1
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Malathion mixture for orchids
How much 50% malathion per gal. of water is needed to treat for scale
and other nasties on orchids? The directions on the malathion package are not specific about orchids, referring only to "ornamentals." I think 2 teaspoons per gallon is what I want, but I am not sure. Are there any orchid genera which will be harmed by malathion? J. Del Col |
#2
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I follow the directions for 'ornamentals'. I understand broughtonias &
their intergenerics can have black leaf spots or blacken leaf margins from malathione use. No scientific evidence for that, just an opinion from an old grower I know. K Barrett "jadel" wrote in message oups.com... How much 50% malathion per gal. of water is needed to treat for scale and other nasties on orchids? The directions on the malathion package are not specific about orchids, referring only to "ornamentals." I think 2 teaspoons per gallon is what I want, but I am not sure. Are there any orchid genera which will be harmed by malathion? J. Del Col |
#3
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Most Mal labels that I have seen give a range for use. I have had no
problems at the lower rate, but have 'blacken leaf margins' on tender phal leaves at the higher rate. Mal 57% EC calls for 1 to 2 teaspoons per gallon and I would use it at between 1 and 1.25 teaspoon per gallon in late afternoon or on cloudy days. Check your label and see if it does not give a range to use, I think 2 teaspoons might be a bit strong. BTW, Mal is no longer labeled for greenhouse use. Pat "K Barrett" wrote in message news I follow the directions for 'ornamentals'. I understand broughtonias & their intergenerics can have black leaf spots or blacken leaf margins from malathione use. No scientific evidence for that, just an opinion from an old grower I know. K Barrett "jadel" wrote in message oups.com... How much 50% malathion per gal. of water is needed to treat for scale and other nasties on orchids? The directions on the malathion package are not specific about orchids, referring only to "ornamentals." I think 2 teaspoons per gallon is what I want, but I am not sure. Are there any orchid genera which will be harmed by malathion? J. Del Col |
#4
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K Barrett wrote: I follow the directions for 'ornamentals'. I understand broughtonias & their intergenerics can have black leaf spots or blacken leaf margins from malathione use. No scientific evidence for that, just an opinion from an old grower I know. Thanks. That's what I need to know. Nighttime temps will soon dip into the 40's, so I need to spray and get the plants ready for the move indoors. J. Del Col |
#5
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I read about an new (to me) product called Bayer Rose and Flower Insect
Killer that has Imocloprid and something called Clyfluthrin (sorry if I spelled that wrong). Label says its a systemic and kills on contact. Those seem to be counter intuitive to me, how can it do both? I always thought an insecticide was one or the other.... ... I am assuming the Clyfuthrin is the systemic/contact killer of adults while the imicloprid affects newly hatched young. Anyway, I've tried it and it sure knocked down a blooming fungus gnat problem, on the plants potted in sphagnum. I have yet to see if it truly lasts 30 days. K Barrett "Pat Brennan" wrote in message ... Most Mal labels that I have seen give a range for use. I have had no problems at the lower rate, but have 'blacken leaf margins' on tender phal leaves at the higher rate. Mal 57% EC calls for 1 to 2 teaspoons per gallon and I would use it at between 1 and 1.25 teaspoon per gallon in late afternoon or on cloudy days. Check your label and see if it does not give a range to use, I think 2 teaspoons might be a bit strong. BTW, Mal is no longer labeled for greenhouse use. Pat "K Barrett" wrote in message news I follow the directions for 'ornamentals'. I understand broughtonias & their intergenerics can have black leaf spots or blacken leaf margins from malathione use. No scientific evidence for that, just an opinion from an old grower I know. K Barrett "jadel" wrote in message oups.com... How much 50% malathion per gal. of water is needed to treat for scale and other nasties on orchids? The directions on the malathion package are not specific about orchids, referring only to "ornamentals." I think 2 teaspoons per gallon is what I want, but I am not sure. Are there any orchid genera which will be harmed by malathion? J. Del Col |
#6
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K Barrett wrote:
I read about an new (to me) product called Bayer Rose and Flower Insect Killer that has Imocloprid and something called Clyfluthrin (sorry if I spelled that wrong). Label says its a systemic and kills on contact. Those seem to be counter intuitive to me, how can it do both? I always thought an insecticide was one or the other.... ... I am assuming the Clyfuthrin is the systemic/contact killer of adults while the imicloprid affects newly hatched young. Anyway, I've tried it and it sure knocked down a blooming fungus gnat problem, on the plants potted in sphagnum. I have yet to see if it truly lasts 30 days. K Barrett Works like a charm. I haven't used the formulation you used, but I did use the tree and shrub version, which I think is just imidocloprid. Great for scale. I've heard it is supposed to last a year... Maybe that is hype. IIRC, it is also sold as Premier and Marathon (and a few other trade names). If you believe the MSDS, it is less toxic to mammals than many of the things we might otherwise use. If you want to spend more money, there is a 'translaminar' formulation of imidocloprid (Marathon II? I'm working without a net today...), that penetrates the leaf tissue. I think the regular formulation has to be absorbed mainly through the roots (applied as drench). Only problem I've found with this stuff is that it makes the spidermites go crazy. Like bunnies on viagra. My spidermite population went through the roof when I sprayed with imidocloprid. Somebody pointed me to an article which said that it was a growth promoter for mites, but I can't find it right now. Anyway, use it only if you don't have a problem with spider mites. Or don't spray the mite prone plants. Or spray in conjunction with a good miticide (if you can afford one). I'd rather not use any pesticides, but if I have to use it again, I'll release some predatory mites a week or two after spraying. -- Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com 1) There is always room for one more orchid 2) There is always room for two more orchids 2a) See rule 1 3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more orchids, obtain more credit |
#7
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"Rob" wrote in message
... K Barrett wrote: I read about an new (to me) product called Bayer Rose and Flower Insect Killer that has Imocloprid and something called Clyfluthrin (sorry if I spelled that wrong). Label says its a systemic and kills on contact. Those seem to be counter intuitive to me, how can it do both? I always thought an insecticide was one or the other.... ... I am assuming the Clyfuthrin is the systemic/contact killer of adults while the imicloprid affects newly hatched young. Anyway, I've tried it and it sure knocked down a blooming fungus gnat problem, on the plants potted in sphagnum. I have yet to see if it truly lasts 30 days. K Barrett Works like a charm. I haven't used the formulation you used, but I did use the tree and shrub version, which I think is just imidocloprid. Great for scale. I've heard it is supposed to last a year... Maybe that is hype. IIRC, it is also sold as Premier and Marathon (and a few other trade names). If you believe the MSDS, it is less toxic to mammals than many of the things we might otherwise use. If you want to spend more money, there is a 'translaminar' formulation of imidocloprid (Marathon II? I'm working without a net today...), that penetrates the leaf tissue. I think the regular formulation has to be absorbed mainly through the roots (applied as drench). Only problem I've found with this stuff is that it makes the spidermites go crazy. Like bunnies on viagra. My spidermite population went through the roof when I sprayed with imidocloprid. Somebody pointed me to an article which said that it was a growth promoter for mites, but I can't find it right now. Anyway, use it only if you don't have a problem with spider mites. Or don't spray the mite prone plants. Or spray in conjunction with a good miticide (if you can afford one). I'd rather not use any pesticides, but if I have to use it again, I'll release some predatory mites a week or two after spraying. -- Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com 1) There is always room for one more orchid 2) There is always room for two more orchids 2a) See rule 1 3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more orchids, obtain more credit Yikes!! I sprayed it all over my catasetums, which ususally get mites like crazy in my GH. Well, I'll keep an eye out. I've been keeping a higher than usual humidity...so fingers crossed that'll keep the mites at bay. (denial) Thnaks for the heads up K Barrett |
#8
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It is somewhat counter intuitive but there seems to be a number of chemicals
that we use as pesticides that stimulate fecundity and act to cause a resurgence weeks or months after the application of either the target pest, or other insects and/or their predator populations that just happened to be in the way. I remember learning in Pest management class that the product called "Sevin" does the same thing to spider mites, although I don't know if it acts this way on all species of mites or if the instructor followed the common misuse of the term and referred to all mites as "spider" mites. I am able to find much more info on the topic than I was a few years ago. It seems that some chemicals that kill adult instars stimulate the egg producing abilities of unhatched female eggs or of larvae that are exposed to it. I also remember hearing that one chemical (forget the name) tended to produce resurgent populations that were heavily weighted toward the female gender of some insect (forget the name). http://www.bioone.org/bioone/?reques...e=04&page=1144 Dish soap and rubbing alcohol probably makes them horny too. I know it has this effect on me. "K Barrett" wrote in message ... "Rob" wrote in message ... K Barrett wrote: I read about an new (to me) product called Bayer Rose and Flower Insect Killer that has Imocloprid and something called Clyfluthrin (sorry if I spelled that wrong). Label says its a systemic and kills on contact. Those seem to be counter intuitive to me, how can it do both? I always thought an insecticide was one or the other.... ... I am assuming the Clyfuthrin is the systemic/contact killer of adults while the imicloprid affects newly hatched young. Anyway, I've tried it and it sure knocked down a blooming fungus gnat problem, on the plants potted in sphagnum. I have yet to see if it truly lasts 30 days. K Barrett Works like a charm. I haven't used the formulation you used, but I did use the tree and shrub version, which I think is just imidocloprid. Great for scale. I've heard it is supposed to last a year... Maybe that is hype. IIRC, it is also sold as Premier and Marathon (and a few other trade names). If you believe the MSDS, it is less toxic to mammals than many of the things we might otherwise use. If you want to spend more money, there is a 'translaminar' formulation of imidocloprid (Marathon II? I'm working without a net today...), that penetrates the leaf tissue. I think the regular formulation has to be absorbed mainly through the roots (applied as drench). Only problem I've found with this stuff is that it makes the spidermites go crazy. Like bunnies on viagra. My spidermite population went through the roof when I sprayed with imidocloprid. Somebody pointed me to an article which said that it was a growth promoter for mites, but I can't find it right now. Anyway, use it only if you don't have a problem with spider mites. Or don't spray the mite prone plants. Or spray in conjunction with a good miticide (if you can afford one). I'd rather not use any pesticides, but if I have to use it again, I'll release some predatory mites a week or two after spraying. -- Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com 1) There is always room for one more orchid 2) There is always room for two more orchids 2a) See rule 1 3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more orchids, obtain more credit Yikes!! I sprayed it all over my catasetums, which ususally get mites like crazy in my GH. Well, I'll keep an eye out. I've been keeping a higher than usual humidity...so fingers crossed that'll keep the mites at bay. (denial) Thnaks for the heads up K Barrett |
#9
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K Barrett wrote: I read about an new (to me) product called Bayer Rose and Flower Insect Killer that has Imocloprid and something called Clyfluthrin ... Hmmm... The local home improvement store has this stuff on sale. It may be a safer choice than malathion. Thanks. J. Del Col |
#10
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On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:07:05 -0400 in Al wrote:
It is somewhat counter intuitive but there seems to be a number of chemicals that we use as pesticides that stimulate fecundity and act to cause a resurgence weeks or months after the application of either the target pest, or other insects and/or their predator populations that just happened to be in the way. I remember learning in Pest management class that the product Call me a cynic, but this seems like an inspired way to sell more pesticides... Let's be honest, you're a PHB at a pesticide company, which would you pick to market, the one that you apply once and you're done for the year, or the one where you apply it once, it seems to resolve the problem, and a few weeks later they are back stronger than ever... -- Chris Dukes Suspicion breeds confidence -- Brazil |
#11
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It has more to do with newer technology than with marketing.
There is nothing that can be used just once and be effective, and malathion is as old as the hills. Newer technologies require multiple treatments to kill everything, as does malathion. The newer stuff is simply more effective. If you really want to do it right and avoid the development of resistant insect strains, go with IGR's - some of the newest technology. -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info! "?" wrote in message rg... On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:07:05 -0400 in Al wrote: It is somewhat counter intuitive but there seems to be a number of chemicals that we use as pesticides that stimulate fecundity and act to cause a resurgence weeks or months after the application of either the target pest, or other insects and/or their predator populations that just happened to be in the way. I remember learning in Pest management class that the product Call me a cynic, but this seems like an inspired way to sell more pesticides... Let's be honest, you're a PHB at a pesticide company, which would you pick to market, the one that you apply once and you're done for the year, or the one where you apply it once, it seems to resolve the problem, and a few weeks later they are back stronger than ever... -- Chris Dukes Suspicion breeds confidence -- Brazil |
#12
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A lot of the pesticides have both systemic and contact prosperities.
Although Mal and Sevin are basically used for their contact kills, both have weak systemic prosperities. Orthene is most commonly used as a systemic but also has a very good contact kill. Imocloprid is another chemical that has both properties. When using it to kill fungus gnat larvae, we are using Imocloprid's contact kill properties. I have used it on fungus gnats with very mixed results, from almost no kill to very terminal. Last spring I noticed I was having much better results with it on propagation flats containing ProMix than I was having with it on Phals in moss. I think the problem is that chemicals are leached out of moss very quickly (If not leached out, at least moved out of the surface (were the larvae are) to deeper in the pot). I have played with this idea a bit and found if I can avoid watering for at least two weeks after an Imocloprid application I get a much better kill. In this thread Ray talks about using insect growth regulators. I have tried some and had very poor results with them. I now think the problem may have been that they too were being leached out of the surface of the mix before they had a chance to really work. One of these days I will dust off the bag of Adept and try it again with the plants only receiving light misting for a couple of weeks after application. Pat "K Barrett" wrote in message ... I read about an new (to me) product called Bayer Rose and Flower Insect Killer that has Imocloprid and something called Clyfluthrin (sorry if I spelled that wrong). Label says its a systemic and kills on contact. Those seem to be counter intuitive to me, how can it do both? I always thought an insecticide was one or the other.... ... I am assuming the Clyfuthrin is the systemic/contact killer of adults while the imicloprid affects newly hatched young. Anyway, I've tried it and it sure knocked down a blooming fungus gnat problem, on the plants potted in sphagnum. I have yet to see if it truly lasts 30 days. K Barrett "Pat Brennan" wrote in message ... Most Mal labels that I have seen give a range for use. I have had no problems at the lower rate, but have 'blacken leaf margins' on tender phal leaves at the higher rate. Mal 57% EC calls for 1 to 2 teaspoons per gallon and I would use it at between 1 and 1.25 teaspoon per gallon in late afternoon or on cloudy days. Check your label and see if it does not give a range to use, I think 2 teaspoons might be a bit strong. BTW, Mal is no longer labeled for greenhouse use. Pat "K Barrett" wrote in message news I follow the directions for 'ornamentals'. I understand broughtonias & their intergenerics can have black leaf spots or blacken leaf margins from malathione use. No scientific evidence for that, just an opinion from an old grower I know. K Barrett "jadel" wrote in message oups.com... How much 50% malathion per gal. of water is needed to treat for scale and other nasties on orchids? The directions on the malathion package are not specific about orchids, referring only to "ornamentals." I think 2 teaspoons per gallon is what I want, but I am not sure. Are there any orchid genera which will be harmed by malathion? J. Del Col |
#13
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AN interesting observation, Pat.
The only IGR I have used is Enstar II, applied with a bit of soap to spread the coverage, and even though I overhead water fairly frequently, I have noticed great effectiveness. It is my understanding that systemics are absorbed by the plant rapidly upon contact, so leaching from the medium should not be a factor, but who knows how that varies among chemicals and plants. -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info! "Pat Brennan" wrote in message ... A lot of the pesticides have both systemic and contact prosperities. Although Mal and Sevin are basically used for their contact kills, both have weak systemic prosperities. Orthene is most commonly used as a systemic but also has a very good contact kill. Imocloprid is another chemical that has both properties. When using it to kill fungus gnat larvae, we are using Imocloprid's contact kill properties. I have used it on fungus gnats with very mixed results, from almost no kill to very terminal. Last spring I noticed I was having much better results with it on propagation flats containing ProMix than I was having with it on Phals in moss. I think the problem is that chemicals are leached out of moss very quickly (If not leached out, at least moved out of the surface (were the larvae are) to deeper in the pot). I have played with this idea a bit and found if I can avoid watering for at least two weeks after an Imocloprid application I get a much better kill. In this thread Ray talks about using insect growth regulators. I have tried some and had very poor results with them. I now think the problem may have been that they too were being leached out of the surface of the mix before they had a chance to really work. One of these days I will dust off the bag of Adept and try it again with the plants only receiving light misting for a couple of weeks after application. Pat "K Barrett" wrote in message ... I read about an new (to me) product called Bayer Rose and Flower Insect Killer that has Imocloprid and something called Clyfluthrin (sorry if I spelled that wrong). Label says its a systemic and kills on contact. Those seem to be counter intuitive to me, how can it do both? I always thought an insecticide was one or the other.... ... I am assuming the Clyfuthrin is the systemic/contact killer of adults while the imicloprid affects newly hatched young. Anyway, I've tried it and it sure knocked down a blooming fungus gnat problem, on the plants potted in sphagnum. I have yet to see if it truly lasts 30 days. K Barrett "Pat Brennan" wrote in message ... Most Mal labels that I have seen give a range for use. I have had no problems at the lower rate, but have 'blacken leaf margins' on tender phal leaves at the higher rate. Mal 57% EC calls for 1 to 2 teaspoons per gallon and I would use it at between 1 and 1.25 teaspoon per gallon in late afternoon or on cloudy days. Check your label and see if it does not give a range to use, I think 2 teaspoons might be a bit strong. BTW, Mal is no longer labeled for greenhouse use. Pat "K Barrett" wrote in message news I follow the directions for 'ornamentals'. I understand broughtonias & their intergenerics can have black leaf spots or blacken leaf margins from malathione use. No scientific evidence for that, just an opinion from an old grower I know. K Barrett "jadel" wrote in message oups.com... How much 50% malathion per gal. of water is needed to treat for scale and other nasties on orchids? The directions on the malathion package are not specific about orchids, referring only to "ornamentals." I think 2 teaspoons per gallon is what I want, but I am not sure. Are there any orchid genera which will be harmed by malathion? J. Del Col |
#14
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Ray,
I think your understanding of systemics is correct. I do not have problems with sucking pests, it is the damn fungus gnat larvae. They live in and survive on the crud on the surface of the mix and only nibble on the roots now and then. Because the plant is such a small part of the fungus gnat larva's diet is why I said we are using Imocloprid's contact kill properties. BTW, I talked to a Olympic rep about this and he recommended I just apply Marathon II spritzes more often. But given our understanding of systemics I was afraid I would get too much Imocloprid in the plant and start seeing flower mutations and decided to limit myself to label application frequency recommendations. Now if I can only learn the difference between prosperities and properties. Pat properties "Ray" wrote in message ... AN interesting observation, Pat. The only IGR I have used is Enstar II, applied with a bit of soap to spread the coverage, and even though I overhead water fairly frequently, I have noticed great effectiveness. It is my understanding that systemics are absorbed by the plant rapidly upon contact, so leaching from the medium should not be a factor, but who knows how that varies among chemicals and plants. -- Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info! |
#15
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Malathion mixture for orchids
BAYER Tree&Shrub insect control.
No Spraying Contains 1.47% imidacloprid. Imidacloprid is synthetic nicotine. Is a systemic, not a contact killer. Aparently not as poisonus as real nicotine, which I think is off the market. Works very well on scale and mealybugs. Not much else does. I cannot imagine spraying Malathion on the 2-300 orchids in my house, and then churning the stuff through my heating system. I had a huge infestation of scale & mealybugs on about 100-150 cats & phals last winter. I mixed the recommended dosage of T&S in with my monthly feedings. Took about 3 months to totally wipe the infestation out. I got reference to this from he http://www.njorchids.org/articles/Mealybug/Mealybug.htm On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:18:19 -0700, "K Barrett" wrote: I read about an new (to me) product called Bayer Rose and Flower Insect Killer that has Imocloprid and something called Clyfluthrin (sorry if I spelled that wrong). Label says its a systemic and kills on contact. Those seem to be counter intuitive to me, how can it do both? I always thought an insecticide was one or the other.... ... I am assuming the Clyfuthrin is the systemic/contact killer of adults while the imicloprid affects newly hatched young. |
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