When I initially inquired about Gibberellic Acid after seeing it in an article (have never used
it), many people had some negative thoughts on it. Thursday night, Alan Koch spoke at our society
meeting and mentioned that this was a natural feature or element of Kelp/Seaweed fertilizer. I,
however, did not get to speak with him in detail.

.. . . Pam
Everything Orchid Management System http://www.pe.net/~profpam/page3.html

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Ray wrote:


"Ray" wrote in message
...
George Norris of Spring Orchid Specialties advocates the following:

In one gallon of 80°F water, dissolve:
One cup of sugar
5 drops of SuperThrive
One teaspoon vitamin E

I have taken that a step farther since hearing Alan Koch of Gold Country
Orchids, adding 1/2
teaspoon of STEM (soluble trace element mixture).

In any case, soak the plant for two- to four hours.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"IiSpankyii" wrote in message
...
Hi. Someone had mentioned soaking bare root plants in a rooting
solution. Can
someone elaborate on this a bit? Thanks for any info.

I talked to Alan about it at the New York show. He said that since GA is
derived from natural sources AOS judging does not have any problems with its
use.

Pat


"profpam" wrote in message ...
When I initially inquired about Gibberellic Acid after seeing it in an
article (have never used
it), many people had some negative thoughts on it. Thursday night, Alan
Koch spoke at our society
meeting and mentioned that this was a natural feature or element of
Kelp/Seaweed fertilizer. I,
however, did not get to speak with him in detail.

. . . Pam
Everything Orchid Management System http://www.pe.net/~profpam/page3.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------



Ray wrote:


"Ray" wrote in message
...
George Norris of Spring Orchid Specialties advocates the following:

In one gallon of 80°F water, dissolve:
One cup of sugar
5 drops of SuperThrive
One teaspoon vitamin E

I have taken that a step farther since hearing Alan Koch of Gold
Country
Orchids, adding 1/2
teaspoon of STEM (soluble trace element mixture).

In any case, soak the plant for two- to four hours.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"IiSpankyii" wrote in message
...
Hi. Someone had mentioned soaking bare root plants in a rooting
solution. Can
someone elaborate on this a bit? Thanks for any info.

Although not a proper rooting solution, my own "solution" to
rootless plants is a modification of the "sphag and bag" technique
advocated by some.

What I have done is filled large plastic bag (about gallon sized)
1/3 of the way with soaking wet bark. The orchid gets some sphagnum
wrapped around its base, and is then put into the bag. The leaves either
stick out, or are completely out, depending upon how desiccated the plant
is. Every 2-3 days, I mist some fresh "SUPERthrive" solution + weak
fertilizer onto the sphagnum.

Check weekly for new growth and roots.

I like this a little better than other techniques, as it gives the
plant a bit more circulation, and reduces the chances of rot, IMHO. For
the bag, I've used polypropylene bread bags; they've worked well for me.

-AJHicks
Chandler, AZ

Pat Brennan wrote:

I talked to Alan about it at the New York show. He said that since GA is
derived from natural sources AOS judging does not have any problems with its
use.



Uh oh... Somebody pressed the 'natural sources' button that makes me
so grumpy... Please ignore the following tirade if you aren't in the mood.


A lot of things are derived from natural sources. I don't think
there is any specific ruling that makes a naturally derived product
suitable for AOS judging purposes... In fact, there isn't a rule about
synthetic products. Natural or synthetic doesn't matter anyway,
colchicine (used to muck with chromosome numbers) comes from crocuses.
Pyrethrins come from chrysanthemums... Orthene comes from some chemical
company somewhere. I wouldn't consume even the tiniest fraction of any
of them.


But for what it is worth, natural sources has nothing to do with it.
If it was made on the space station, shipped directly to monsanto, and
applied thereupon to an orchid, I don't think the AOS judging system
cares... One way or another. I haven't ever seen a rule that states
that a plant treated with any chemical/fertilizer/pesticide/magic potion
is ineligible for judging, as long as it hasn't had an immediate effect
on the appearance of the plant (shining the leaves with vegetable oil is
verboten, soaking white phals in blue food color is a no-no,
fertilizing the plant with chemical fertilizers so that it gives nice
flowers is encouraged). If somebody can find that for me in the
handbook, I'd love to see it. I've been wrong before.


In the judging room, I would suspect that if you were to bring up
the use of synthetic (or natural) growth regulators you would get a
general consensus that it is not good. But, that isn't the same as a
rule. And the practical side is that there is no way we could enforce
it even if it was a rule, unless the plant came in with a little sign
that said "Treated with Gibberellic acid".

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit
4) LittlefrogFarm kinda/sorta/somewhat open for business -
e-mail me for a list )

I am with you Rob, bottom line is, how are the judges going to know what you
have used? They would have to do some kind of DNA testing no?

--
Cheers Wendy

Remove PETERPAN for email reply
"Rob Halgren" wrote in message ...
Pat Brennan wrote:

I talked to Alan about it at the New York show. He said that since GA is
derived from natural sources AOS judging does not have any problems with its
use.



Uh oh... Somebody pressed the 'natural sources' button that makes me
so grumpy... Please ignore the following tirade if you aren't in the mood.


A lot of things are derived from natural sources. I don't think
there is any specific ruling that makes a naturally derived product
suitable for AOS judging purposes... In fact, there isn't a rule about
synthetic products. Natural or synthetic doesn't matter anyway,
colchicine (used to muck with chromosome numbers) comes from crocuses.
Pyrethrins come from chrysanthemums... Orthene comes from some chemical
company somewhere. I wouldn't consume even the tiniest fraction of any
of them.


But for what it is worth, natural sources has nothing to do with it.
If it was made on the space station, shipped directly to monsanto, and
applied thereupon to an orchid, I don't think the AOS judging system
cares... One way or another. I haven't ever seen a rule that states
that a plant treated with any chemical/fertilizer/pesticide/magic potion
is ineligible for judging, as long as it hasn't had an immediate effect
on the appearance of the plant (shining the leaves with vegetable oil is
verboten, soaking white phals in blue food color is a no-no,
fertilizing the plant with chemical fertilizers so that it gives nice
flowers is encouraged). If somebody can find that for me in the
handbook, I'd love to see it. I've been wrong before.


In the judging room, I would suspect that if you were to bring up
the use of synthetic (or natural) growth regulators you would get a
general consensus that it is not good. But, that isn't the same as a
rule. And the practical side is that there is no way we could enforce
it even if it was a rule, unless the plant came in with a little sign
that said "Treated with Gibberellic acid".

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit
4) LittlefrogFarm kinda/sorta/somewhat open for business -
e-mail me for a list )

No judging handbook here. But the last time GA came up someone posted that
they though it's use was against the regulations. Seemed weird to me so I
asked Alan and I expect is answer is pretty good, buttons or not. As I
wrote last time this topic came up, if there is an AOS judging list of
prohibited chemicals, hormones, and/or growth regulators I would love to
know what they are. Anyone have the handbook and a little spare time?

Pat


"Rob Halgren" wrote in message
and I removed most of it
..........................................
But for what it is worth, natural sources has nothing to do with it.
If it was made on the space station, shipped directly to monsanto, and
applied thereupon to an orchid, I don't think the AOS judging system
cares... One way or another. I haven't ever seen a rule that states
that a plant treated with any chemical/fertilizer/pesticide/magic potion
is ineligible for judging, as long as it hasn't had an immediate effect
on the appearance of the plant (shining the leaves with vegetable oil is
verboten, soaking white phals in blue food color is a no-no,
fertilizing the plant with chemical fertilizers so that it gives nice
flowers is encouraged). If somebody can find that for me in the
handbook, I'd love to see it. I've been wrong before.


.................................................. ...........................
......

wendy7 wrote:

I am with you Rob, bottom line is, how are the judges going to know what you
have used? They would have to do some kind of DNA testing no?



DNA testing wouldn't help, even. Treating with growth regulators won't
effect the genome of the plant. Truth is, there isn't a way to tell,
for sure, if a plant has been treated with growth regulators. The sole
exception being if it had _just_ been treated with a compound, and you
could do some sort of mass spectrometry to detect that compound. Or if
you knew enough about what genes were regulated you could look for them.
But that would never be the case, as the ultimate effects of a growth
regulator are seen well after that compound is applied. If the goal is
bushier plants or more blooms, you have to apply the growth regulator
when the plants are growing or the spikes are forming. That was
probably months before judging.

Anyway, my point is you can grow your plants however you want, there is
no regulation. Give them growth hormones, vitamins, minerals, MSU magic
fertilizer, seaweed extract, worm castings, or llama urine, it doesn't
matter. You could make potions out of eye of newt and wolfsbane whilst
dancing naked under a full moon. Sing arias or play rock and roll.
None of these activites is either immoral or 'illegal' in a judging
sense. The only thing the judges care about is what they see in front
of them.

Weeee! Hey, it is time to go home!

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit
4) LittlefrogFarm kinda/sorta/somewhat open for business -
e-mail me for a list ) of minicatts and oncidinae

Pat Brennan wrote:

No judging handbook here. But the last time GA came up someone posted that
they though it's use was against the regulations. Seemed weird to me so I
asked Alan and I expect is answer is pretty good, buttons or not. As I
wrote last time this topic came up, if there is an AOS judging list of
prohibited chemicals, hormones, and/or growth regulators I would love to
know what they are. Anyone have the handbook and a little spare time?




I have the handbook but very little spare time. I'll look anyway.
I'm pretty sure I would have come across a list of prohibited substances
should there have been one, although even the most experienced judges
don't have the thing memorized. Our whole team was looking through it
this weekend, for something that we don't deal with very often. I'll
make a full report tomorrow.

Rob


--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit
4) LittlefrogFarm open for business - e-mail me for a list ) of minicatts and oncidiums

I'm sure if someone were sufficiently interested, a quick spot
test could be developed for gibberellic acids. Then growers who used it
would just have to get keener about how they applied so, so they could
elude testing. It's worse than the spammer/spam-filter relationship.

An interesting note about growth regulators is that *if* one could
restrict their use in judged plants, where would one draw the line? Only
"big" molecules like GA, kinetin, and so forth? How about B vitamins.
Quite a slippery slope there.

The e-mail address in the header is a spam trap. Send no e-mail
there.

-AJHicks
Chandler, AZ

Differences in geography, I suppose -- but if you take a plant to judging at
the AOS HQ, it probably won't even be looked at if you _haven't_ shined the
leaves [although I've never tried vegetable oil for that purpose ...]. Milk
is theoretically the preferred shine, but several of the judges there bring
their own plants in [of course not sitting on the team that judges them] and
theirs, like mine, tend to be sprayed with Leaf-Shine.
--
Kenni Judd
Juno Beach Orchids
http://www.jborchids.com

"Rob Halgren" wrote in message
...
Pat Brennan wrote:

I talked to Alan about it at the New York show. He said that since GA is
derived from natural sources AOS judging does not have any problems with
its
use.



Uh oh... Somebody pressed the 'natural sources' button that makes me
so grumpy... Please ignore the following tirade if you aren't in the
mood.


A lot of things are derived from natural sources. I don't think
there is any specific ruling that makes a naturally derived product
suitable for AOS judging purposes... In fact, there isn't a rule about
synthetic products. Natural or synthetic doesn't matter anyway,
colchicine (used to muck with chromosome numbers) comes from crocuses.
Pyrethrins come from chrysanthemums... Orthene comes from some chemical
company somewhere. I wouldn't consume even the tiniest fraction of any
of them.


But for what it is worth, natural sources has nothing to do with it.
If it was made on the space station, shipped directly to monsanto, and
applied thereupon to an orchid, I don't think the AOS judging system
cares... One way or another. I haven't ever seen a rule that states
that a plant treated with any chemical/fertilizer/pesticide/magic potion
is ineligible for judging, as long as it hasn't had an immediate effect
on the appearance of the plant (shining the leaves with vegetable oil is
verboten, soaking white phals in blue food color is a no-no,
fertilizing the plant with chemical fertilizers so that it gives nice
flowers is encouraged). If somebody can find that for me in the
handbook, I'd love to see it. I've been wrong before.


In the judging room, I would suspect that if you were to bring up
the use of synthetic (or natural) growth regulators you would get a
general consensus that it is not good. But, that isn't the same as a
rule. And the practical side is that there is no way we could enforce
it even if it was a rule, unless the plant came in with a little sign
that said "Treated with Gibberellic acid".

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit
4) LittlefrogFarm kinda/sorta/somewhat open for business -
e-mail me for a list )

Kenni Judd wrote:

Differences in geography, I suppose -- but if you take a plant to judging at
the AOS HQ, it probably won't even be looked at if you _haven't_ shined the
leaves [although I've never tried vegetable oil for that purpose ...]. Milk
is theoretically the preferred shine, but several of the judges there bring
their own plants in [of course not sitting on the team that judges them] and
theirs, like mine, tend to be sprayed with Leaf-Shine.


It seems like this is an old topic, maybe my news server is sending me
old stuff again, but I'll respond anyway. Just _try_ to keep me from
responding, I dare you... *grin*

Well...

According to the AOS Handbook on Judging and Exhibition, shining leaves
is strictly verboten. It seems to have disappeared off my desk (here at
work, why anybody here would want it is beyond me...), so I can't quote
chapter and verse. Are you sure that they want them shined, and not
just cleaned? Cleaning leaves is ok (and encouraged). Giving the
leaves an artificial shine is against the rules. Always has been,
unless of course I can't read (always an option), in which case feel
free to tell me I'm an idiot. Geography should have nothing to do with
it, that is why they published the darned handbook...

I always assumed that the distinction was that you could remove hard
water stains, etc, but you couldn't apply oils or other artificial
'waxy' substances to the plant. I have no idea why, mind you, although
I do find an overly oiled specimen (of any phylum) be be a little
gaudy. Seems like a trivial thing to get upset over. Although if it is
in the handbook, I'd be certain to mention it the next time you bring in
a plant. That will get you bonus points (*grin*).

Rules have never stopped anybody, of course. Quick assignment to one of
the student judges out there - look that up and report. I can make
assignments that now that I've been 'elevated' to probationary. It
sounds so angelic. "Elevation". I think the next phase is 'ascension
directly into orchid heaven'. Oh, I'm in trouble now....

Rob (agitator extraordinaire)

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit

Rob: Seems old to me, too, but I just now saw this one. Not being a judge,
nor student judge, nor even a clerk for the judges, I've never actually read
the handbook. I was only reporting what actually happens, at the monthly
judgings at the AOS HQ. So I think you probably hit on the head with "rules
never stopped anyone" G. Kenni

It seems like this is an old topic, maybe my news server is sending me
old stuff again, but I'll respond anyway. Just _try_ to keep me from
responding, I dare you... *grin*

Well...

According to the AOS Handbook on Judging and Exhibition, shining leaves
is strictly verboten. It seems to have disappeared off my desk (here at
work, why anybody here would want it is beyond me...), so I can't quote
chapter and verse. Are you sure that they want them shined, and not
just cleaned? Cleaning leaves is ok (and encouraged). Giving the
leaves an artificial shine is against the rules. Always has been,
unless of course I can't read (always an option), in which case feel
free to tell me I'm an idiot. Geography should have nothing to do with
it, that is why they published the darned handbook...

I always assumed that the distinction was that you could remove hard
water stains, etc, but you couldn't apply oils or other artificial
'waxy' substances to the plant. I have no idea why, mind you, although
I do find an overly oiled specimen (of any phylum) be be a little
gaudy. Seems like a trivial thing to get upset over. Although if it is
in the handbook, I'd be certain to mention it the next time you bring in
a plant. That will get you bonus points (*grin*).

Rules have never stopped anybody, of course. Quick assignment to one of
the student judges out there - look that up and report. I can make
assignments that now that I've been 'elevated' to probationary. It
sounds so angelic. "Elevation". I think the next phase is 'ascension
directly into orchid heaven'. Oh, I'm in trouble now....

Rob (agitator extraordinaire)

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit

Rob: Seems old to me, too, but I just now saw this one. Not being a judge,
nor student judge, nor even a clerk for the judges, I've never actually read
the handbook. I was only reporting what actually happens, at the monthly
judgings at the AOS HQ. So I think you probably hit on the head with "rules
never stopped anyone" G. Kenni

It seems like this is an old topic, maybe my news server is sending me
old stuff again, but I'll respond anyway. Just _try_ to keep me from
responding, I dare you... *grin*

Well...

According to the AOS Handbook on Judging and Exhibition, shining leaves
is strictly verboten. It seems to have disappeared off my desk (here at
work, why anybody here would want it is beyond me...), so I can't quote
chapter and verse. Are you sure that they want them shined, and not
just cleaned? Cleaning leaves is ok (and encouraged). Giving the
leaves an artificial shine is against the rules. Always has been,
unless of course I can't read (always an option), in which case feel
free to tell me I'm an idiot. Geography should have nothing to do with
it, that is why they published the darned handbook...

I always assumed that the distinction was that you could remove hard
water stains, etc, but you couldn't apply oils or other artificial
'waxy' substances to the plant. I have no idea why, mind you, although
I do find an overly oiled specimen (of any phylum) be be a little
gaudy. Seems like a trivial thing to get upset over. Although if it is
in the handbook, I'd be certain to mention it the next time you bring in
a plant. That will get you bonus points (*grin*).

Rules have never stopped anybody, of course. Quick assignment to one of
the student judges out there - look that up and report. I can make
assignments that now that I've been 'elevated' to probationary. It
sounds so angelic. "Elevation". I think the next phase is 'ascension
directly into orchid heaven'. Oh, I'm in trouble now....

Rob (agitator extraordinaire)

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit