My grass (~18 moth old sod) was a bit of a mess this Spring, so I had
it dethached and had a few days after that weed and feed put down.
That was about 5-6 days ago. The grass is much improved, and I see
that there is a lot of grass with he seeds at the top now. Should I
cut the grass in 3 days, or should I wait until most of those seeds
look to be gone?

Also, I keep getting different recommendations for watering. Should I
give a good watering every day, or water an inch a week? I want the
grass to look very full and green, and I understand about root growth
(less water for better roots), but my main concern is the full green
look.

I live in the Midwest, Southeastern Wisconsin, and underneath my sod
is a very poor quality dirt, mostly clay.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Most grasses spread from roots not seed. After 30 days, you have
'new' grass. Fertilize and cut for weedless-ness and growth.

Jim

Phyllis and Jim wrote:

Most grasses spread from roots not seed. After 30 days, you have
'new' grass. Fertilize and cut for weedless-ness and growth.

Geez, I really didn't want to start discussing what was clearly a non-pond
related question, but I think you're wrong :-)

Most "turf grass" - the stuff people really want on their lawns - propagates
that way, but "annual" grasses propagate by seed. aiui, without
painstaking care, most lawns end up replaced by annual grasses in the end
anyway (and the fact that this lawn is already showing seed heads suggests
that's what they have).

Most of those people treating their lawns for cinch bugs in august, because
everything turned yellow, don't have cinch bugs, they just have annual
grass that _always_ dies in mid-summer.

If you want a nice lawn (yuck!) you need to cut it before you see seed heads
(but as late as possible before that).
--
derek
- Unless otherwise noted, I speak for myself, not rec.ponds.moderated
moderators.

You're all wrong. Too much lawn means
not enough pond...!

k :-)

Derek,

Does that apply to our bermuda? I hope not as it does not get to go
to seed. Our annual rye goes into the food plots for deer. It dies
each year. My lawn goes brown in winter and comes back strong each
spring.

Jim

On Thu, 24 May 2007 09:40:53 CST, Jme
wrote:

My grass (~18 moth old sod) was a bit of a mess this Spring, so I had
it dethached and had a few days after that weed and feed put down.
That was about 5-6 days ago. The grass is much improved, and I see
that there is a lot of grass with he seeds at the top now. Should I
cut the grass in 3 days, or should I wait until most of those seeds
look to be gone?

Feel free to start mowing at any time.

Also, I keep getting different recommendations for watering. Should I
give a good watering every day, or water an inch a week? I want the
grass to look very full and green, and I understand about root growth
(less water for better roots), but my main concern is the full green
look.

An inch a week will make for healthier roots that will go deeper and
keep the grass greener. A bit every day makes the roots stay close to
the surface and they'll dry out in the first of sunshine.

I live in the Midwest, Southeastern Wisconsin, and underneath my sod
is a very poor quality dirt, mostly clay.

Clay holds water nicely. The once a week (only bother if it hasn't
rained an inch during that week) watering is best. Southeastern
Wisconsin should get a lot of rain storms. No problem.

And mow the stuff as near to every 5 days as possible. Most people do
once a week, but more often is better. Every 3 days would probably be
ideal, but you'd have to be the groundskeeper at a golf course working
on the greens to do that....

Try to ignore the 'common wisdom' you'll hear from your neighbors and
relatives. They're mostly repeating stuff they've heard that sounds
good to them. Like the idea that you shouldn't mow when it's been dry
out for quite a while and should let the grass grow taller. Wrong.
Under that one, when you do finally mow again, the grass will have put
so much energy into growing long that you'll be shocking it and may be
pulling so hard with the mower blade it'll damage the roots. (Yes,
mower blades pull as well as cut.)

The idea that all cut grass should be caught up in bags or trailers
and then kept away from the grass always seemed strange to me. I
don't have anything to back it up, but I think that's nonsense. Let
it fall where it's been growing. Don't worry about the (what I think
is) mythical thatch problem. The fallen grass (as long as you've been
mowing frequently) will fall onto the growing grass, fall between the
leaves of the grass and help fertilize it and shade the roots,
eventually disintegrating into a better soil. And I guess I do have
something to back it up. My beautiful velvet lawn was cut and kept
that way.

Don't bother to feed the lawn often. At most twice a year. Better
once a year. Okay to never do it in many places.

When I was in charge of our lawn at the old house, we had a velvety
yard. Our neighbors got a lawn service because they couldn't stand
the look of theirs next to ours. And all I did was water the inch a
week during dry spells (only during dry spells) and mow often. Very
often. I only once used fertilizer on it and never weed killer.
Healthy grass will crowd weeds right out. Then my husband took over
and did the more common once a week mowing and started weed and feed
two to three times a year, just like the rest of the neighborhood. It
still looked okay, but no longer was velvety. And the weeds started
being able to lift their heads above the grass.

One reason not to weed and feed is that every bit of that stuff goes
into the ground and from the ground into the ground water or runs off
into the drainage system.

If you have an in ground pond, you _don't_ want that stuff near your
pond. Unless you like the blanket of green algae and ishy weed stuff
on most of the top of it.


If you do have an in ground pond, remember to plant a bunch of stuff
as a barrier around it, so that things like lawn chemicals (if you
insist on using them) will be filtered or stopped before reaching the
pond.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

You're welcome. You probably won't follow it. Nobody does. They let
all that common wisdom wash over and into them and have ordinary lawns
that cost them money for weed and feed, but let them use only one day
a week for mowing.
--

r.bc: vixen
Minnow goddess, Speaker to squirrels, willow watcher.
Almost entirely harmless. Really.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Cyli's recommendations are spot on.
We live in Milwaukee (fertile loam), our dacha is in Brookfield
(clay). In the last 2 years we had to reclaim the grass at two houses.
The dacha lawn was in pretty good shape having been mowed, but we
needed to weed and feed in spring and then use weed-b-gone stuff the
rest of the year. we set a sprinker for every other day (it is on a
slope so excess would run down and water stuff at the bottom. the
watering system is on a well. it was cut regularily with a MULCHING
MOWER. by the end of summer most of the dog patches and chippie holes
had filled in, and the grass was thick and lush. (the tenant had
cats!).
at our rental on the next block the tenant had not been taking care of
the lawn as specified in her contract (she came with the rental when
we bought it). a cheap heavy board fence had fallen and the sections
were left to lay on the grass while it and the big weeds grew up
around the boards. it was a mess. after the fence, falling apart
picnic table, etc etc. was hauled off, the big weeds pulled, the
"grass" cut there was probably only 50% grass left with huge dead
sections. DH got this stuff that has paper like something mixed with
color and grass seeds. the lawn was sprinkled every morning. This
started in July of last year, not the ideal time to seed grass. by
fall it wasnt too bad, this year there are just a couple holes that
need to fill in. we always wonder if there was something spilled
where there are holes in the lawn. in one area out at the dacha there
had been a tree. DH dug the area around the hole, put in new dirt
and seed and it finally filled in.

when using a mulching mower the cut grass becomes the "green
fertilizer", but the clippings need water to decompose, much like a
compost pile.

I wouldnt bother with dethatching. if they laid the sod over the clay
without putting down a nice thick layer of compost, what you need to
add is gypsum and compost in tiny thin layers on top to gradually
build up the soil under the sod.

At our own house I dont have grass, well a 36" x 36" from our front
steps to the sidewalk. everything else is gardens, and in our back
yard we have gravel to show off the ponds and gardens.
http://weloveteaching.com/landscape/gravel/gravel.htm
of course, it looks a lot different now with all the plants grown up,
and the back yard is tiny, tiny, tiny. but I do understand the need
for grass in some places. good luck.
Ingrid

On Fri, 25 May 2007 01:18:55 CST, Cyli wrote:
An inch a week will make for healthier roots that will go deeper and
keep the grass greener. A bit every day makes the roots stay close to
the surface and they'll dry out in the first of sunshine.
Clay holds water nicely. The once a week (only bother if it hasn't
rained an inch during that week) watering is best.
And mow the stuff as near to every 5 days as possible. Most people do
once a week, but more often is better. Every 3 days would probably be
ideal, but you'd have to be the groundskeeper at a golf course working
on the greens to do that....

Try to ignore the 'common wisdom' you'll hear from your neighbors and
relatives. They're mostly repeating stuff they've heard that sounds
good to them. Like the idea that you shouldn't mow when it's been dry
out for quite a while and should let the grass grow taller. Wrong.
Under that one, when you do finally mow again, the grass will have put
so much energy into growing long that you'll be shocking it and may be
pulling so hard with the mower blade it'll damage the roots. (Yes,
mower blades pull as well as cut.)

The idea that all cut grass should be caught up in bags or trailers
and then kept away from the grass always seemed strange to me. I
don't have anything to back it up, but I think that's nonsense. Let
it fall where it's been growing. Don't worry about the (what I think
is) mythical thatch problem. The fallen grass (as long as you've been
mowing frequently) will fall onto the growing grass, fall between the
leaves of the grass and help fertilize it and shade the roots,
eventually disintegrating into a better soil. And I guess I do have
something to back it up. My beautiful velvet lawn was cut and kept
that way.

Don't bother to feed the lawn often. At most twice a year. Better
once a year. Okay to never do it in many places.

When I was in charge of our lawn at the old house, we had a velvety
yard. Our neighbors got a lawn service because they couldn't stand
the look of theirs next to ours. And all I did was water the inch a
week during dry spells (only during dry spells) and mow often. Very
often. I only once used fertilizer on it and never weed killer.
Healthy grass will crowd weeds right out. Then my husband took over
and did the more common once a week mowing and started weed and feed
two to three times a year, just like the rest of the neighborhood. It
still looked okay, but no longer was velvety. And the weeds started
being able to lift their heads above the grass.

One reason not to weed and feed is that every bit of that stuff goes
into the ground and from the ground into the ground water or runs off
into the drainage system.

If you have an in ground pond, you _don't_ want that stuff near your
pond. Unless you like the blanket of green algae and ishy weed stuff
on most of the top of it.


If you do have an in ground pond, remember to plant a bunch of stuff
as a barrier around it, so that things like lawn chemicals (if you
insist on using them) will be filtered or stopped before reaching the
pond.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

You're welcome. You probably won't follow it. Nobody does. They let
all that common wisdom wash over and into them and have ordinary lawns
that cost them money for weed and feed, but let them use only one day
a week for mowing.

First off, a big THANK YOU for all your responses, and an APOLOGY.

I read the ponds and lawn.garden daily (I'm in charge of three ponds
in my subdivision), and mistakenly posted to ponds rather than lawns.

But, as I have noticed time and time again, this group was still
helpful and knowledgeable and took time to answer (for something that
was clearly off-topic).

Again, my sincere thanks!!!

PS, I'm sure to have some actual pond questions, and I'll be sure to
post them here, as opposed to the lawn group ;-)

Phyllis and Jim wrote:

Does that apply to our bermuda? I hope not as it does not get to go
to seed.

Probably not - anything sold as lawn grass is probably not annual, but at
least in Ontario, the annual grasses generally take over eventually. Down
your way, that perhaps is not an issue, as your perennial grasses might
thrive better.

But I do agree with Kathy - lawn is just space that could be better used for
a pond.
--
derek
- Unless otherwise noted, I speak for myself, not rec.ponds.moderated
moderators.

First of all, I don't know what a discussion about lawns is doing in a
pond group, but since the subject is being discussed, I think I'll add
my two cents.

There is absolutely no reason to have a "lawn." None. The "property
values" arguments and the like are of no merit, there isn't a piece of
property that can't be landscaped without a "lawn." One of the most
ridiculous devices ever invented is the lawn mower, in all its various
forms.
--
Galen Hekhuis
Illiterate? Write for FREE help

On Fri, 25 May 2007 01:18:55 CST, Cyli wrote:

The idea that all cut grass should be caught up in bags or trailers
and then kept away from the grass always seemed strange to me. I
don't have anything to back it up, but I think that's nonsense. Let
it fall where it's been growing. Don't worry about the (what I think
is) mythical thatch problem.

As a Master Gardener, I can back you up. Mulching does not cause thatch,
grass type does. Fescue's, Chewing's... more apt to have thatch problem.
Bluegrass rarely. We've been in this house for 20 years, bluegrass, never
needed to thatch.

The fallen grass (as long as you've been
mowing frequently) will fall onto the growing grass, fall between the
leaves of the grass and help fertilize it and shade the roots,
eventually disintegrating into a better soil. And I guess I do have
something to back it up. My beautiful velvet lawn was cut and kept
that way.

There you go. ;-) Washington State University would back you up also.

Don't bother to feed the lawn often. At most twice a year. Better
once a year. Okay to never do it in many places.

I can only speak regarding my area, and what our experts in their fields
recommend for our climate. What they recommend is fertilize 4 times, unless
using mulching mower, than 3 times. Since our crabgrass germination season
is so long I put that down twice in the spring mid-March end of May, then I
put a late fall of weed & feed winterizer end of Oct. (Zone 7a)

One reason not to weed and feed is that every bit of that stuff goes
into the ground and from the ground into the ground water or runs off
into the drainage system.

I'd disagree with you there, if over done, you are certainly right, but
soil type and location make a big difference. Nothing moves very fast in
clay, and most fertilizers end up bound to clay. Why we can put fertilizer
spikes in our plant baskets and not get green water in the pond.

If you do have an in ground pond, remember to plant a bunch of stuff
as a barrier around it, so that things like lawn chemicals (if you
insist on using them) will be filtered or stopped before reaching the
pond.

Well, hmmmm, yeah, again YMMV here. Sandy soil like mine, low rain because
of desert, I can get close. Clay soil, more rain, be very careful. Berm
around the pond may even be necessary.

Always good to check with county extension agent as they can recommend best
practice for your area. I highly recommend sharp blade on mower. :-) ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

Jme wrote:

PS, I'm sure to have some actual pond questions, and I'll be sure to
post them here, as opposed to the lawn group ;-)

Feel free to post your next pond question to both here and the lawn group -
and then let us know how well _they_ cope with pond questions!
--
derek
- Unless otherwise noted, I speak for myself, not rec.ponds.moderated
moderators.

Jme wrote:
PS, I'm sure to have some actual pond questions, and I'll be sure to
post them here, as opposed to the lawn group ;-)

On Mon, 28 May 2007 08:33:41 CST, Derek Broughton wrote:

Feel free to post your next pond question to both here and the lawn group -
and then let us know how well _they_ cope with pond questions!

chuckle Is the lawn group also moderated? ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

Just goes to show what a talented and
diverse group ponders are!
k :-)