Between my 198 watt swee****er blower, the 500 watt heater (or 2) and 110 watts for
my pondmaster 1200 gallon/hour pump, I am really eating up the energy here. So I am
thinking about a solar heater for my pond.

www.sungrabber.com has various configurations. They are made of polypropylene
(should be fish safe).

a wireless indoor/outdoor thermometer to tell me the temp of water and air with a
remote switch to turn it on and off. I figure to set it up that the water drains out
automatically when the pump is turned off to prevent freezing of water.

Of course, my pond is covered close to the water, but I am also adding (hopefully
have it operational this year) another enclosure around it, higher so I can walk in
and sit down in there.

Anybody use a solar system? Does it work? Ingrid

wrote in message
...
Between my 198 watt swee****er blower, the 500 watt heater (or 2) and 110
watts for
my pondmaster 1200 gallon/hour pump, I am really eating up the energy
here. So I am
thinking about a solar heater for my pond.

www.sungrabber.com has various configurations. They are made of
polypropylene
(should be fish safe).

a wireless indoor/outdoor thermometer to tell me the temp of water and air
with a
remote switch to turn it on and off. I figure to set it up that the water
drains out
automatically when the pump is turned off to prevent freezing of water.

Of course, my pond is covered close to the water, but I am also adding
(hopefully
have it operational this year) another enclosure around it, higher so I
can walk in
and sit down in there.

Anybody use a solar system? Does it work? Ingrid

That type of solar heater looks good, but the pump needs to be taken off
line when the sun goes low in the sky or it will act as a cooler, giving up
the heat to the atmosphere. The design uses small tubes for the water to
travel through, and I would fear biofilm restriction of the tubes or pieces
of algae or other junk stopping the tubing up. .

--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
Zone 7A/B Virginia

the sun goes down. I was thinking looking for a "controller" but havent found
anything in my price range. I thought to set up a weather station with wireless
thermometers and a remote on/off switch to the pump. When off the panel should drain
completely.
I hadnt thought about gunk jamming up the tubes. I am going to have to ask how small
those tubes are. thanks.

any other ideas???????? please, lets get it all out front before I spend the time
and money. Ingrid

On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 21:03:21 EDT, "RichToyBox" wrote:
That type of solar heater looks good, but the pump needs to be taken off
line when the sun goes low in the sky or it will act as a cooler, giving up
the heat to the atmosphere. The design uses small tubes for the water to
travel through, and I would fear biofilm restriction of the tubes or pieces
of algae or other junk stopping the tubing up. .

On Thu, 9 Oct 2008 08:59:41 EDT, wrote:

the sun goes down. I was thinking looking for a "controller" but havent found
anything in my price range. I thought to set up a weather station with wireless
thermometers and a remote on/off switch to the pump. When off the panel should drain
completely.
I hadnt thought about gunk jamming up the tubes. I am going to have to ask how small
those tubes are. thanks.

any other ideas???????? please, lets get it all out front before I spend the time
and money. Ingrid


Well... you could do it like a radiator, in that instead of pond water in
the tubes circulate fresh and have tubing in the pond that gives off heat
like a radiator in a room? I know this is the type of thing people who heat
their ponds with gas or electric do.... I believe.

remote control switches, look in the Xmas lighting sections of
stores.... unless you're hoping to find a temperature sensitive one, that
could be pricey. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

wrote:

Between my 198 watt swee****er blower, the 500 watt heater (or 2) and 110
watts for
my pondmaster 1200 gallon/hour pump, I am really eating up the energy
here. So I am thinking about a solar heater for my pond.

www.sungrabber.com has various configurations. They are made of
polypropylene (should be fish safe).

a wireless indoor/outdoor thermometer to tell me the temp of water and air
with a
remote switch to turn it on and off. I figure to set it up that the water
drains out automatically when the pump is turned off to prevent freezing
of water.

That's not a bad idea, but I rather doubt their _pool_ heaters are designed
as "drain-down" units, so you'd need to use the type they're selling for
domestic hot-water. Drain-down systems work for home heating, and are
generally pretty simple, but since people don't actually swim in their
swimming pools when there's snow on the ground, it's not a system that I
think they'd have bothered with on the pool heater (and it doesn't look
like a drain-down system). So I'd worry that when you drain it, it would
still have enough water inside to damage the collector.

For domestic hot-water use, we use a system much like Jan describes - a
glycol solution, continuously pumped through a collecter to a heat
exchanger. Since the pump is driven by a small PV panel (50W or less), it
only pumps during daylight (ensuring that you aren't _removing_ heat). For
DHW use, it doesn't need any controls at all - it can afford to keep
extracting heat from the collector forever. For a pond, you'd need a
max-temperature on/off switch - but then I'd worry about overheating the
collector.
--
derek

it would need to be metal and the only thing I would trust in the pond would be
really expensive.

however, I found somebody on the Puregold system has used the sungrabber in a pond. I
will still try it out first on some test fish, but................


On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 18:35:44 EDT, ~ jan wrote:
Well... you could do it like a radiator, in that instead of pond water in
the tubes circulate fresh and have tubing in the pond that gives off heat
like a radiator in a room? I know this is the type of thing people who heat
their ponds with gas or electric do.... I believe.

remote control switches, look in the Xmas lighting sections of
stores.... unless you're hoping to find a temperature sensitive one, that
could be pricey. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

I dont worry about a bit of water inside the collector. even our hoses have water
inside and that rubber is flexible enough to expand by that amount. I am more
worried about ice jams, but if it is in full sun the water should thaw so water would
move thru it. it is the larger bore hose going to and from that needs to be drained.
I will weight the whole setup before I first move water thru it, then weigh it after
and see how much of a difference.. how much water is left in the system.

I would never trust any solution in the hose near my pond. and the whole idea is to
heat my pond in winter so I dont have to use the 500 watt heater. Ingrid

On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 12:45:18 EDT, Derek Broughton wrote:
That's not a bad idea, but I rather doubt their _pool_ heaters are designed
as "drain-down" units So I'd worry that when you drain it, it would
still have enough water inside to damage the collector.

For domestic hot-water use, we use a system much like Jan describes - a
glycol solution, continuously pumped through a collecter to a heat
exchanger.

wrote:

it would need to be metal and the only thing I would trust in the pond
would be really expensive.

Why would it need to be metal? Radiators for cars or homes are metal
because they need to move a lot of heat, quickly, into air - which doesn't
conduct heat well. Water conducts heat _very_ well, and if you were
running the output from a solar heater through about 40' of 3/4 or 1" PEX
at the bottom of the pond, I think you'd get excellent heat transfer. I'd
check that with a heating engineer, if possible, but I'd bet on it.
--
derek

wrote:

This is a lot easier, if you don't top-post...

I dont worry about a bit of water inside the collector. even our hoses
have water
inside and that rubber is flexible enough to expand by that amount.

Rubber is (_only_ rubber hoses, though, not plastic), but I'd have to say
you haven't actually seen the pool heaters. They're not flexible, and I
guarantee you that if one freezes with water in it, it will be ruined. The
DHW drain-down system is the way to go.

For domestic hot-water use, we use a system much like Jan describes - a
glycol solution, continuously pumped through a collecter to a heat
exchanger.

I would never trust any solution in the hose near my pond.

Assuming by "solution" you mean glycol, it could be worth actually
establishing beforehand whether the "non-toxic" antifreezes (Propylene
glycol?) are a problem for fish.

and the whole idea is to
heat my pond in winter so I dont have to use the 500 watt heater.

I have no idea what that's in response to.
--
derek

pex? plastic? it is an insulator. metal is the best conductor. remember, cold
doesnt seep out, heat has to spread in. Ingrid

On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 20:18:00 EDT, Derek Broughton wrote:

wrote:

it would need to be metal and the only thing I would trust in the pond
would be really expensive.

Why would it need to be metal? Radiators for cars or homes are metal
because they need to move a lot of heat, quickly, into air - which doesn't
conduct heat well. Water conducts heat _very_ well, and if you were
running the output from a solar heater through about 40' of 3/4 or 1" PEX
at the bottom of the pond, I think you'd get excellent heat transfer. I'd
check that with a heating engineer, if possible, but I'd bet on it.

the recommendation that I put it away in winter. no point to that. I want to use
this to replace the 500 watt heater in WINTER. Ingrid

On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 08:24:34 EDT, Derek Broughton wrote:
and the whole idea is to
heat my pond in winter so I dont have to use the 500 watt heater.

I have no idea what that's in response to.

wrote:

the recommendation that I put it away in winter. no point to that. I
want to use
this to replace the 500 watt heater in WINTER. Ingrid

On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 08:24:34 EDT, Derek Broughton
wrote:
and the whole idea is to
heat my pond in winter so I dont have to use the 500 watt heater.

I have no idea what that's in response to.

Please don't top-post. How can we have a conversation?

I never made any such suggestion, and looking back, I can't see anything
that could even be interpreted that way.
--
derek

wrote:

pex? plastic? it is an insulator. metal is the best conductor.

Of course it is, but if you push the hot water through a lot of 1" plastic,
_plenty_ of heat will be extracted. If that solar DHW system was used for
in-floor heating, that's exactly what they'd use (well, likely only 1/2" or
3/4" - but then concrete conducts heat about twice as well as water).

remember, cold doesnt seep out, heat has to spread in.

You're not trying to get cold to seep out - you're radiating heat. 40' of
1" PEX would pretty well guarantee the heat all getting to the pond.
--
derek

I dont like bottom posting. I dont like to scroll down thru yards of previous posts
to get to a "me too" so mostly I delete posts where an answer is hidden yonder at the
bottom. I try to make sure it isnt necessary to reread everything another person
wrote to get at why I am replying.

Sorry, SOMEONE suggested I roll up the plastic solar mat and put it away in winter. I
was replying that it would defeat the purpose of my getting the solar mat in the
first place ... to replace the 500 watt heater. Ingrid



On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 14:34:33 EDT, Derek Broughton wrote:
wrote:
Please don't top-post. How can we have a conversation?
I never made any such suggestion, and looking back, I can't see anything
that could even be interpreted that way.

wrote:

I dont like bottom posting. I dont like to scroll down thru yards of
previous posts to get to a "me too" so mostly I delete posts where an
answer is hidden yonder at the

So reply inline. This sort of confusion is what naturally happens when you
top-post.

--
derek