Last Friday I took off the lily pond winter cover, by Saturday I had one
croaker. 5 nights later I had an orchestra. I went out Sunday and delivered
my, "If the frogs annoy you, please e-mail me before contacting the city
attorney" note to all the surrounding neighbors. Currently the frogs
haven't hit full volume, and it's cool enough still that most keep their
windows shut in the evenings.

I'm hoping that letting people know that the volume control is as close as
their own computer will make them more tolerant. ~ jan


~ jan/WA
Zone 7a

~ janj wrote:
Last Friday I took off the lily pond winter cover, by Saturday I had one
croaker. 5 nights later I had an orchestra. I went out Sunday and delivered
my, "If the frogs annoy you, please e-mail me before contacting the city
attorney" note to all the surrounding neighbors. Currently the frogs
haven't hit full volume, and it's cool enough still that most keep their
windows shut in the evenings.

I'm hoping that letting people know that the volume control is as close as
their own computer will make them more tolerant. ~ jan


~ jan/WA
Zone 7a

Hi Jan,

I'm just a little curious as to how you can be held responsible for the
noise made by a wild creature - in this case the frogs?

Also a bit curious as to how you turn the volume down....

Gill

Me too
Croaking frogs would be music to my ears up here!
I'm just hoping our green frog "Ralphie" has survived the winter in our
pond.
Consider yourself lucky )
Pretty sad state if people are annoyed by such a minor "natural" music!
Wow.
Angie

"Gill Passman" wrote in message
...
~ janj wrote:
Last Friday I took off the lily pond winter cover, by Saturday I had one
croaker. 5 nights later I had an orchestra. I went out Sunday and
delivered
my, "If the frogs annoy you, please e-mail me before contacting the city
attorney" note to all the surrounding neighbors. Currently the frogs
haven't hit full volume, and it's cool enough still that most keep their
windows shut in the evenings. I'm hoping that letting people know that
the volume control is as close as
their own computer will make them more tolerant. ~ jan


~ jan/WA Zone 7a

Hi Jan,

I'm just a little curious as to how you can be held responsible for the
noise made by a wild creature - in this case the frogs?

Also a bit curious as to how you turn the volume down....

Gill

AngieNews2 wrote:

Me too
Croaking frogs would be music to my ears up here!
I'm just hoping our green frog "Ralphie" has survived the winter in our
pond.
Consider yourself lucky )
Pretty sad state if people are annoyed by such a minor "natural" music!
Wow.

You have to realize, Jan's not talking about "croaking" frogs. She's got
Pacific Tree Frogs. You have a little grey Tree Frog that is probably
similar, but I only ever saw one, and I certainly never had more than a
couple at a time (outside St. Thomas).

Have you ever heard an American Toad trilling? It goes for maybe 5 seconds.
Now, raise that pitch an octave, and maintain it for 30-60 seconds at a
time. It's loud, and potentially annoying. If you get half a dozen of
them outside your window it could drive you crazy. However, Jan's
neighbors are apparently already crazy :-)
--
derek

Hi Jan,
I'm just a little curious as to how you can be held responsible for the
noise made by a wild creature - in this case the frogs?

This is actually in the city code, having a habitat that harbors nuisance
creatures (or some wording like that). This was probably put in there when
people had junk piles that skunks moved into originally.

Also a bit curious as to how you turn the volume down....
Gill

I go out and catch a few males and the volume goes down. These males are
then given to other ponders. Sometimes they stay with them, and sometimes
they don't. ) My neighbors were given a lesson on native creatures in
the letter last year. That these were NOT pets, but come and go as easily
as the crickets. The City Attorney's office said that was the first letter
they had gotten regarding frogs and they thought it was hilarious. Believe
me, the letter I got from them was nothing to laugh about. I set them the
letter and then stayed in e-mail contact with them. No one contacted me or
them after the letter went out. ~ jan

--------------
See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

"Gill Passman" wrote in message
...
I'm just a little curious as to how you can be held responsible for the
noise made by a wild creature - in this case the frogs?

Also a bit curious as to how you turn the volume down....
===========================
They can claim her "unnatural" pond is creating a nuisance. It's little
different than having a neighbor with a barking dog.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
*Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.*
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

"AngieNews2" wrote in message
.. .
Me too
Croaking frogs would be music to my ears up here!
I'm just hoping our green frog "Ralphie" has survived the winter in our
pond.
Consider yourself lucky )
Pretty sad state if people are annoyed by such a minor "natural" music!
Wow.
===========================
Have you ever heard a pond full of lovelorn frogs? If it's close to
someone's home there is no way they're going to sleep through it. I had to
remove a 1/2 barrel from our side porch because the frogs kept me awake and
I love the sounds of nature.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
*Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.*
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

In article ,
Koi-Lo wrote:

"Gill Passman" wrote in message
.. .
I'm just a little curious as to how you can be held responsible for the
noise made by a wild creature - in this case the frogs?

Also a bit curious as to how you turn the volume down....
===========================
They can claim her "unnatural" pond is creating a nuisance. It's little
different than having a neighbor with a barking dog.

Yeah, nobody records sounds of barking dogs and sells it as new age
relaxing music.

Chirping frogs in the spring, that eat bugs are a nuisence, but cars,
motorbikes and what have you that make noise, consume expensive fossil
fuels we buy for a lot of money from the mideast, that also pollutes
like mad (to the detriment of aforementioned frogs ironically) are ok?

Tell them your plan is to buy a big SUV and to drive it a lot so
the emissions will eventually kill them off. Then alert the green people,
buy a local politoco a TV and let nature and politics take its
course. If I can refresh your memory, you saw an endangered frog
in your pond.

You American city dwellers just slay me with your irony.


--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

"Richard Sexton" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Koi-Lo wrote:

"Gill Passman" wrote in message
. ..
I'm just a little curious as to how you can be held responsible for the
noise made by a wild creature - in this case the frogs?

Also a bit curious as to how you turn the volume down....
===========================
They can claim her "unnatural" pond is creating a nuisance. It's little
different than having a neighbor with a barking dog.

Yeah, nobody records sounds of barking dogs and sells it as new age
relaxing music.

I doubt anyone would play croaking frog CDs (and I have many Nature CDs) as
loud as some ponds get in spring and summer. ;-)

Chirping frogs in the spring, that eat bugs are a nuisence, but cars,
motorbikes and what have you that make noise, consume expensive fossil
fuels we buy for a lot of money from the mideast, that also pollutes
like mad (to the detriment of aforementioned frogs ironically) are ok?

Now that depends on where you live. There are plenty of places where you
can get a summons if you have loud pipes on your car or bike. NYC of all
places hands out summonses for playing a loud Boom-Box in the street.
Personally I don't mind the frogs croaking at night as long as they're not
close to my bedroom window. Not everyone is a heavy sleeper. I mean, we do
have to be considerate of our neighbors. If the frogs keep them awake what
are they supposed to do - go rent a Motel room to get some sleep? ;-)

Tell them your plan is to buy a big SUV and to drive it a lot so
the emissions will eventually kill them off. Then alert the green people,
buy a local politoco a TV and let nature and politics take its
course. If I can refresh your memory, you saw an endangered frog
in your pond.

You American city dwellers just slay me with your irony.

BTW not all of us on this NG are city dwellers. Even out here in the
country most of us do have at least one neighbor in earshot of our ponds.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
*Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on rec.ponds*.
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Koi-Lo wrote:

"Richard Sexton" wrote in message
...

In article ,
Koi-Lo wrote:


"Gill Passman" wrote in message
...

I'm just a little curious as to how you can be held responsible for the
noise made by a wild creature - in this case the frogs?

Also a bit curious as to how you turn the volume down....

===========================
They can claim her "unnatural" pond is creating a nuisance. It's little
different than having a neighbor with a barking dog.


Yeah, nobody records sounds of barking dogs and sells it as new age
relaxing music.


I doubt anyone would play croaking frog CDs (and I have many Nature CDs)
as loud as some ponds get in spring and summer. ;-)

Chirping frogs in the spring, that eat bugs are a nuisence, but cars,
motorbikes and what have you that make noise, consume expensive fossil
fuels we buy for a lot of money from the mideast, that also pollutes
like mad (to the detriment of aforementioned frogs ironically) are ok?


Now that depends on where you live. There are plenty of places where
you can get a summons if you have loud pipes on your car or bike. NYC
of all places hands out summonses for playing a loud Boom-Box in the
street. Personally I don't mind the frogs croaking at night as long as
they're not close to my bedroom window. Not everyone is a heavy
sleeper. I mean, we do have to be considerate of our neighbors. If the
frogs keep them awake what are they supposed to do - go rent a Motel
room to get some sleep? ;-)

Tell them your plan is to buy a big SUV and to drive it a lot so
the emissions will eventually kill them off. Then alert the green people,
buy a local politoco a TV and let nature and politics take its
course. If I can refresh your memory, you saw an endangered frog
in your pond.

You American city dwellers just slay me with your irony.


BTW not all of us on this NG are city dwellers. Even out here in the
country most of us do have at least one neighbor in earshot of our ponds.


Those of us in the UK know the pain of having frog CDs - there was/is a
certain "Crazy Frog" that charted...yuk

I still don't see how someone can be held responsible for frogs...OK
you've built a pond that attracts them but they are still out there
somewhere...maybe if you didn't have a pond they'd find their way into a
puddle in a neighbour's garden...or is it a "not in my back yard"
mentality. I just don't see how any pond keeper could be deemed
inconsiderate because a wild animal makes a noise - can you be held
responsible if a fox (or any wild dog) makes a noise because maybe you
keep chickens? Or that a bird of prey makes a horrendous noise because
they live in your area because there is other wild-life - mice, rats
etc. (OMG just remembered they will be at it again in a few weeks)...

Actually having a frog eating bugs must be a plus for any neighbourhood...

A dog barking is different...but how do you stop your pet cat fighting?
That keeps people awake as well...in fact the list is endless...but IMO
in terms of anti-social behaviour frogs just don't get on the list....

Gill

On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:49:55 -0400, Derek Broughton wrote:

You have to realize, Jan's not talking about "croaking" frogs. She's got
Pacific Tree Frogs. You have a little grey Tree Frog that is probably
similar, but I only ever saw one, and I certainly never had more than a
couple at a time (outside St. Thomas).

Have you ever heard an American Toad trilling? It goes for maybe 5 seconds.
Now, raise that pitch an octave, and maintain it for 30-60 seconds at a
time. It's loud, and potentially annoying. If you get half a dozen of
them outside your window it could drive you crazy.

Naaa, by that time you've got white noise, easy to sleep to. What wakes you
up is when they all stop at once, dead silence.

However, Jan's neighbors are apparently already crazy :-)

????? I hope you're mean crazy in that they did not talk to or write me a
note, and not crazy because they live near me? ~ jan
~ jan/WA
Zone 7a

On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 18:24:33 +0000 (UTC), (Richard Sexton) wrote:

They can claim her "unnatural" pond is creating a nuisance. It's little
different than having a neighbor with a barking dog.

I do like some of the ways you think. The neighbors that I assume
complained, have a dog... that barks.

Chirping frogs in the spring, that eat bugs are a nuisence, but cars,
motorbikes and what have you that make noise, consume expensive fossil
fuels we buy for a lot of money from the mideast, that also pollutes
like mad (to the detriment of aforementioned frogs ironically) are ok?

I used all that in my letter, about them eating MOSQUITOS, plus other bugs.

Tell them your plan is to buy a big SUV and to drive it a lot so
the emissions will eventually kill them off. Then alert the green people,
buy a local politoco a TV and let nature and politics take its
course. If I can refresh your memory, you saw an endangered frog
in your pond.

If I had all the money in the world, I might just let a lawyer take that
route, but I don't.s As far as the SUV, I drive a Prius. The neighbors
with the barking dog? A big honkin' Peepup truck. Which wakes my son when
they start it up in the AM. Go figure.

In my case, it isn't that my frogs kept these folks awake. Their bedroom is
on the opposite side of their house. We got the letter soon after they got
a big screen TV in the living room and the weather got nice enough to have
windows open. I think it affected their TV listening. And no these aren't
older homes, with thin windows, in fact most of their windows were upgraded
prior to moving in. So I assume, like ours, shut the window and the sound
is gone.

Otoh, the people behind me, who's bedroom practically overlooks the pond,
didn't complain. When I asked them about it, she did say that her and
another neighbor (next to the pond) were discussing how loud the frogs were
that year. Then she volunteered to call me about them, not to get rid of
them, just to decrease the #s. Unfortunately, she didn't call before I got
the CA letter.... and maybe that is just as well, since it probably took
some time for the letter to get put into action. If I'd lowered the volume
and then got the letter, I might have thought I had to remove all of them.

The most interesting thing, since I didn't know for sure who had contacted
the CA. I put out 16 letters to surrounding houses. I got back 12 positive
responses. I counted my two "lower the #s" neighbors as negative, so that
left only 2 others, one of which is kitty corner to me, sound blocked by my
house and their bedrooms are in the back, and no windows open to the front,
and I think they would talk to me first. That kind of whittled it down who
wrote the letter. ;-)

Course I love K30's idea. Write a letter apologizing about the frogs, that
2 big snakes have been turned loose to take care of the problem. Please
keep all pets and small children inside until you no longer hear frogs in
the evenings. This could take a couple weeks. Thank you, ~ jan

--------------
See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

I still don't see how someone can be held responsible for frogs...OK
you've built a pond that attracts them but they are still out there
somewhere...maybe if you didn't have a pond they'd find their way into a
puddle in a neighbour's garden...or is it a "not in my back yard"
mentality. I just don't see how any pond keeper could be deemed
inconsiderate because a wild animal makes a noise - can you be held
responsible if a fox (or any wild dog) makes a noise because maybe you
keep chickens? Or that a bird of prey makes a horrendous noise because
they live in your area because there is other wild-life - mice, rats
etc. (OMG just remembered they will be at it again in a few weeks)...

Actually having a frog eating bugs must be a plus for any neighbourhood...

A dog barking is different...but how do you stop your pet cat fighting?
That keeps people awake as well...in fact the list is endless...but IMO
in terms of anti-social behaviour frogs just don't get on the list....
Gill

And therein, why the CA office thought it was hilarious. I would have been
happier, had the CA called me, laughter in the background, and mentioned
there had been a complaint. I still would have reduced the numbers. And
speaking of wild animals, I mentioned Maypies (related to crows) and how
noisy they can be in the neighborhood.

Personally it all comes down to "control" and you've got it, the case of
"not in my backyard where I can go harass it away" mentality. By fall we
have big crickets that I know sing every bit as loud as the frogs, under
everyone's window. Course, looking at the house across the street... they
have a BIG barked (non)flower bed, with no plants. That probably helps keep
the crickets to a minimum. ;-) ~ jan


~ jan/WA
Zone 7a

have to be considerate of our neighbors. If the frogs keep them awake what
are they supposed to do - go rent a Motel room to get some sleep? ;-)

First they came for the frongs and I didn't do anything.

Then they came for the hummingbirds and I didn't do anything.

Then they came for the moths and I didn't do anything...

Quick, somebody name mother nature in a lawsuit. That bitch
is just a disturbing influence.



--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

"Gill Passman" wrote in message
...
Koi-Lo wrote:
BTW not all of us on this NG are city dwellers. Even out here in the
country most of us do have at least one neighbor in earshot of our ponds.
=====================

Those of us in the UK know the pain of having frog CDs - there was/is a
certain "Crazy Frog" that charted...yuk

I was talking about the green slippery ones. :-)

I still don't see how someone can be held responsible for frogs...OK
you've built a pond that attracts them but they are still out there
somewhere...maybe if you didn't have a pond they'd find their way into a
puddle in a neighbour's garden...or is it a "not in my back yard"
mentality.

It may partly be that - for sure. But what can someone do if the frogs in
your pond do indeed keep them awake night after night? Those who must get
up in the morning to go to a job can't sleep during the day when the frogs
are quiet. Here in the USA you would cited for "creating a nuisance" just
like if you had a backyard full of barking dogs or were feeding 100 stray
cats.

I just don't see how any pond keeper could be deemed
inconsiderate because a wild animal makes a noise - can you be held
responsible if a fox (or any wild dog) makes a noise because maybe you
keep chickens?

If they're creating problems for a neighbor - YES - in many areas. But the
USA is big and laws vary state by state and city by city.

Or that a bird of prey makes a horrendous noise because
they live in your area because there is other wild-life - mice, rats etc.
(OMG just remembered they will be at it again in a few weeks)...

If the birds of prey are after your chickens or pigeons - you can be held
responsible for "creating a nuisance." Again Gill, it depends on where you
live.

Actually having a frog eating bugs must be a plus for any neighbourhood...

I think most people would rather spray with toxic poisons than be kept awake
by frogs. :-(

A dog barking is different...but how do you stop your pet cat fighting?

I hate to say this but usually a neighbor who is being kept awake by
fighting cats buys a 22........ bye bye cats. People here who value their
cats neuter them and keep them indoors.

That keeps people awake as well...in fact the list is endless...but IMO in
terms of anti-social behaviour frogs just don't get on the list....

I agree... as long as they're not under my own bedroom window. ;-)
Fortunately my ponds are in front of the house and behind the house, none
are near by bedroom. My house isn't really close enough to the other homes
to have anyone complain about the frogs.

--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
*Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on rec.ponds*.
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o