BV,

You need to read some of the URLs, the ones based on real research, that are
always posted here and other places by the salt advocates and you will find
that those results are based on Aquaculture models, not backyard ponds.

Now, you may ask, "what's the difference?" Rod Farlee used one
consistently, for dosing the water with the right amount of salt to obtain a
desired PPM of salt. If you read the entire URL you will see that the
reason the material was presented by the originators is to give fish farmers
the proper proportions of salt in water when hauling their fish to market,
whether it be a food fish or feeders for the aquarium hobby. Besides the
salt it also relates the amounts of compressed oxygen that is used to aerate
these tanks. Now, the reason for the salt is to increase the slime on the
fish and this occurs because the salt is an irritant to the fish. Now the
reason for the oxygen is because they are carrying about 2 pounds of fish
per gallon of water and this gives the crapped fish plenty of oxygen to
travel in their tight quarters and the salt irritates them enough to have
them increase their slime coat in order to have a tighter layer of slime for
the bad bugs to burrow into so the fish have a better chance of fending off
the bad bugs.

The reason that salt is used in recirc aquaculture facilities is because
they are raising fish at a stocking level of 1/2 pound of fish or more per
gallon of water. A lot higher than what you are carrying in your pond.
Salt serves the same reasons as the tank model mentioned above.

Some thing else that is interesting is that all the models for using salt in
ponds for nitrites is for the early spring in "Catfish" ponds where they are
bred and raised. And by the way, for the salt to be effective in assisting
in preventing the uptake of nitrite by the gills of the fish the salt levels
must be 110% of the nitrite levels. If salt is not added appropriately as
the nitrite levels increase the salt becomes useless. So just keeping a
particular level of salt in your pond, especially if it is really low like
..01ppm as touted by some, this level would quickly be overcome by a quick
rise of nitrites to even .05ppm and the salt would not do any good. For the
salt/nitrite situation to work you have to monitor your water at least ever
hour if not every half hour to make sure there is enough salt to be
effective.

Of course, I have posted this information over and over again. By the by,
last year I also mentioned that there is also scientific proof that salt in
the water lowers the dissolved oxygen in the water in addition to the losses
due to the increase in water temperature. So as summer gets hotter and
hotter and our pond temperatures go up this is something to consider.

HTH

Tom L.L.
"BenignVanilla" m wrote in
message ...
"Gregory Young" wrote in message
. ..
Thanks for the reply Tom.
I haven't seen others posting to this topic, so I assume most want to
keep
the heck out of this discussion, and quite frankly I can certainly
understand why, it's been beat to death!
I stopped replying, trying to go private email instead, but my offer to
do
so was not accepted.
After the second public posting about good diagnosticians being able to
just
look at a pond and figure out the problem (I let the first go), I felt I
had
better reply, for fear some might actually believe that was possible.
Have to run.. will catch you later,
Happy ponding,
Greg
snip

From a silent one...I have kept out of the discussion mostly because the
reading is better then the writing for me! I am somewhere on the fence
about this topic. I think you both raise some good points, but for me two
points are the most important. 1) I am against standardizing a medication
process. I don't take a pill unless I need it, and I don't think I want to
do that to my fish, so no salt just yet. 2) Unless I missed it, which is
possible, neither poster can provide a scientific study that says, "here
duh
facts". I think this topic is somewhat ambiguous as we do not have a clear
data set to work from, but I must admit, I lean towards Greg's school.
There
is just something 'fishy' about salting my fish. I dunno. My jury is still
out.

BV.

It is plain NaCl salt but without the additives used to keep table salt from
clumping. Sea salt or Kosher salt, or someone else may suggest some cheaper
kind, just no additives.

--
Jim and Sara Humphries, Victoria, BC
"Carolyn" wrote in message
...
I keep reading about salt being added to ponds, but what kind? Is pickling
salt the same as alum?

it should have no additives.
solar salt is not the same thing as sea salt and sea salt is not recommended for gf
and koi. get the stuff comes in plastic bags for water softeners. make sure it is
crystal, not pellets. it is really cheap for a big bag.
Ingrid

"Carolyn" wrote:

I keep reading about salt being added to ponds, but what kind? Is pickling
salt the same as alum?




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

So should ALL ponds, ALL zones, add salt? Or does it depend on filter
media, fish/no fish, plants, liner or ?????? What are the desirable
quantities, per 100 gals?

--
Totus Tuus
Claudia (take out no spam to reply)
"Hal" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 08:55:00 -0400, "Carolyn" wrote:

I keep reading about salt being added to ponds, but what kind? Is
pickling
salt the same as alum?

Solar salt crystals used in water softeners is the best bargain.
(Found in the water softener department.) Almost pure salt and about
$4 for a 40lb bag at Lowe's. Add .888 pounds of salt per hundred
gallons of pond water for a .1% solution.

Alum is aluminum sulfate, sometimes used to kill algae or make soil
acid. Not for the same purpose.

Regards,

Hal

So should ALL ponds, ALL zones, add salt? Or does it depend on filter
media, fish/no fish, plants, liner or ?????? What are the desirable
quantities, per 100 gals?

--
Totus Tuus
Claudia (take out no spam to reply)
"Hal" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 08:55:00 -0400, "Carolyn" wrote:

I keep reading about salt being added to ponds, but what kind? Is
pickling
salt the same as alum?

Solar salt crystals used in water softeners is the best bargain.
(Found in the water softener department.) Almost pure salt and about
$4 for a 40lb bag at Lowe's. Add .888 pounds of salt per hundred
gallons of pond water for a .1% solution.

Alum is aluminum sulfate, sometimes used to kill algae or make soil
acid. Not for the same purpose.

Regards,

Hal

no. you start by checking the level of salt in your tap water. coastal areas and
others often have pretty high levels of salt in their water and dont need to add any
more. 0.05% is common naturally occurring levels and that is what is fine for winter
level of salt. in spring people bring their salt up to 0.1% and then let it drop
thru water changes. those with significant salt need to check their salt levels if
there is evaporation and topping up going on. the salt level can creep due to
evaporation.
levels of 0.05% dont harm most plants. liner doesnt matter, fish type doesnt matter.

Ingrid

"Claudia" wrote:

So should ALL ponds, ALL zones, add salt? Or does it depend on filter
media, fish/no fish, plants, liner or ?????? What are the desirable
quantities, per 100 gals?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Salt is one of those things that gets fights going. Some say no salt,
except when you need it, since the parasites might become immune to the low
salt levels and then it takes a lot more salt to kill parasites. This has
happened with at least one parasite, since the Japanese maintain heavy salt
levels to keep down the parasites, some have mutated. Others say run 0.1%
year round, stimulates slime coat, eases osmoregulation (the ability of the
fish to maintain the correct water level), and it doesn't hurt plants at
that level. I usually maintain 0.1%, mostly because SO won't let me let it
go to 0.0.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/index.html

"Claudia" wrote in message
news:0fR%c.8380$vI2.5932@trnddc02...
So should ALL ponds, ALL zones, add salt? Or does it depend on filter
media, fish/no fish, plants, liner or ?????? What are the desirable
quantities, per 100 gals?

--
Totus Tuus
Claudia (take out no spam to reply)
"Hal" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 08:55:00 -0400, "Carolyn" wrote:

I keep reading about salt being added to ponds, but what kind? Is
pickling
salt the same as alum?

Solar salt crystals used in water softeners is the best bargain.
(Found in the water softener department.) Almost pure salt and about
$4 for a 40lb bag at Lowe's. Add .888 pounds of salt per hundred
gallons of pond water for a .1% solution.

Alum is aluminum sulfate, sometimes used to kill algae or make soil
acid. Not for the same purpose.

Regards,

Hal

Salt is one of those things that gets fights going. Some say no salt,
except when you need it, since the parasites might become immune to the low
salt levels and then it takes a lot more salt to kill parasites. This has
happened with at least one parasite, since the Japanese maintain heavy salt
levels to keep down the parasites, some have mutated. Others say run 0.1%
year round, stimulates slime coat, eases osmoregulation (the ability of the
fish to maintain the correct water level), and it doesn't hurt plants at
that level. I usually maintain 0.1%, mostly because SO won't let me let it
go to 0.0.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/index.html

"Claudia" wrote in message
news:0fR%c.8380$vI2.5932@trnddc02...
So should ALL ponds, ALL zones, add salt? Or does it depend on filter
media, fish/no fish, plants, liner or ?????? What are the desirable
quantities, per 100 gals?

--
Totus Tuus
Claudia (take out no spam to reply)
"Hal" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 08:55:00 -0400, "Carolyn" wrote:

I keep reading about salt being added to ponds, but what kind? Is
pickling
salt the same as alum?

Solar salt crystals used in water softeners is the best bargain.
(Found in the water softener department.) Almost pure salt and about
$4 for a 40lb bag at Lowe's. Add .888 pounds of salt per hundred
gallons of pond water for a .1% solution.

Alum is aluminum sulfate, sometimes used to kill algae or make soil
acid. Not for the same purpose.

Regards,

Hal

That's right RichToyBox! One of the newest, worst
parasites to have become immune to salt is Costia.
Since it is so small it usually has a good foot hold in
the pond and one the fish before the pond keeper
realizes that the fish are sick. It used to be that a
0.1% was enough to kill it, but the mutated variety
needs 0.6% or higher to do it in.

I am one of the nay sayers for constant salt addition.
If you use it as a remedy it is great, but just as
some costia are immune to low levels now there are
probably others.

Leave the salt for your French fries and corn on the
cob and leave it out of you pond. It encourages the
slime coat because salt is an irritate to the fish, so
it is building a barrier against. The crap about the
regulation of osmosis is smoke and mirrors. The fish
does that all by it self, that is part of life for the
fish.

There are three things to keeping your fish health, and
they are 1. Clean water, 2. Clear Water and last but
not least 3. Clean water. Concentrate on keeping your
fish's environment pristine clean and the rest will
take care of itself.

Tom L.L.
---------------------------------
RichToyBox wrote:
Salt is one of those things that gets fights going. Some say no salt,
except when you need it, since the parasites might become immune to the low
salt levels and then it takes a lot more salt to kill parasites. This has
happened with at least one parasite, since the Japanese maintain heavy salt
levels to keep down the parasites, some have mutated. Others say run 0.1%
year round, stimulates slime coat, eases osmoregulation (the ability of the
fish to maintain the correct water level), and it doesn't hurt plants at
that level. I usually maintain 0.1%, mostly because SO won't let me let it
go to 0.0.

That's right RichToyBox! One of the newest, worst
parasites to have become immune to salt is Costia.
Since it is so small it usually has a good foot hold in
the pond and one the fish before the pond keeper
realizes that the fish are sick. It used to be that a
0.1% was enough to kill it, but the mutated variety
needs 0.6% or higher to do it in.

I am one of the nay sayers for constant salt addition.
If you use it as a remedy it is great, but just as
some costia are immune to low levels now there are
probably others.

Leave the salt for your French fries and corn on the
cob and leave it out of you pond. It encourages the
slime coat because salt is an irritate to the fish, so
it is building a barrier against. The crap about the
regulation of osmosis is smoke and mirrors. The fish
does that all by it self, that is part of life for the
fish.

There are three things to keeping your fish health, and
they are 1. Clean water, 2. Clear Water and last but
not least 3. Clean water. Concentrate on keeping your
fish's environment pristine clean and the rest will
take care of itself.

Tom L.L.
---------------------------------
RichToyBox wrote:
Salt is one of those things that gets fights going. Some say no salt,
except when you need it, since the parasites might become immune to the low
salt levels and then it takes a lot more salt to kill parasites. This has
happened with at least one parasite, since the Japanese maintain heavy salt
levels to keep down the parasites, some have mutated. Others say run 0.1%
year round, stimulates slime coat, eases osmoregulation (the ability of the
fish to maintain the correct water level), and it doesn't hurt plants at
that level. I usually maintain 0.1%, mostly because SO won't let me let it
go to 0.0.

"Tom L. La Bron" wrote in message
...
That's right RichToyBox! One of the newest, worst
parasites to have become immune to salt is Costia.
Since it is so small it usually has a good foot hold in
the pond and one the fish before the pond keeper
realizes that the fish are sick. It used to be that a
0.1% was enough to kill it, but the mutated variety
needs 0.6% or higher to do it in.

I am one of the nay sayers for constant salt addition.
If you use it as a remedy it is great, but just as
some costia are immune to low levels now there are
probably others.

Leave the salt for your French fries and corn on the
cob and leave it out of you pond. It encourages the
slime coat because salt is an irritate to the fish, so
it is building a barrier against. The crap about the
regulation of osmosis is smoke and mirrors. The fish
does that all by it self, that is part of life for the
fish.

There are three things to keeping your fish health, and
they are 1. Clean water, 2. Clear Water and last but
not least 3. Clean water. Concentrate on keeping your
fish's environment pristine clean and the rest will
take care of itself.

Tom L.L.
---------------------------------

Not sure I completely agree with all you're saying but:
I agree with the slime coat thing, but the osmotic thing is debatable, if
done gradually then I suppose no problem, but if you took a fish out of your
pond and dipped it straight into RO water then there would be osmotic issues
surely?
Tom, you say the best bet is to have clean pristine water, Agreed, and the
best way to do that would be to look after your water plants, if the plants
are happy the fish and water will be ecstatic Agreed?
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

"Tom L. La Bron" wrote in message
...
That's right RichToyBox! One of the newest, worst
parasites to have become immune to salt is Costia.
Since it is so small it usually has a good foot hold in
the pond and one the fish before the pond keeper
realizes that the fish are sick. It used to be that a
0.1% was enough to kill it, but the mutated variety
needs 0.6% or higher to do it in.

I am one of the nay sayers for constant salt addition.
If you use it as a remedy it is great, but just as
some costia are immune to low levels now there are
probably others.

Leave the salt for your French fries and corn on the
cob and leave it out of you pond. It encourages the
slime coat because salt is an irritate to the fish, so
it is building a barrier against. The crap about the
regulation of osmosis is smoke and mirrors. The fish
does that all by it self, that is part of life for the
fish.

There are three things to keeping your fish health, and
they are 1. Clean water, 2. Clear Water and last but
not least 3. Clean water. Concentrate on keeping your
fish's environment pristine clean and the rest will
take care of itself.

Tom L.L.
---------------------------------

Not sure I completely agree with all you're saying but:
I agree with the slime coat thing, but the osmotic thing is debatable, if
done gradually then I suppose no problem, but if you took a fish out of your
pond and dipped it straight into RO water then there would be osmotic issues
surely?
Tom, you say the best bet is to have clean pristine water, Agreed, and the
best way to do that would be to look after your water plants, if the plants
are happy the fish and water will be ecstatic Agreed?
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

"Tom L. La Bron" wrote in message
...

Leave the salt for your French fries and corn on the
cob and leave it out of you pond. It encourages the
slime coat because salt is an irritate to the fish, so

Absolutely.

it is building a barrier against. The crap about the
regulation of osmosis is smoke and mirrors. The fish
does that all by it self, that is part of life for the
fish.

Yeah, and breathing is part of life for us. People manage to live at
altitudes of 15,000 feet, but they have to expend a lot of energy just
breathing. Bring them down to sea level and they win long distance races
easily. With fish it's the same. Much energy is exerted just to maintain
osmotic regulation. Add a little salt and that leaves more resources for
fighting disease.

That said, I'm still not sure I believe in the addition of salt - because
I'm unconvinced the benefits outweigh the costs.
--
derek

what costs? Ingrid

Derek Broughton wrote:
because
I'm unconvinced the benefits outweigh the costs.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

what costs? Ingrid

Derek Broughton wrote:
because
I'm unconvinced the benefits outweigh the costs.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.