my mind ceased to funtion what is the maintenance dose of salt (
constant level not dip ) and how many Lbs per 1000 gal to achieve it
from 0
--





John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

good judgement comes from bad experience, and that comes from bad
judgement

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

0.1% or 0.9lbs per 100 gallons. Ingrid

John Rutz wrote:

my mind ceased to funtion what is the maintenance dose of salt (
constant level not dip ) and how many Lbs per 1000 gal to achieve it
from 0



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

This is correct, but John, regarding maintenance level, when I took the the
KHA class Sandy Yosha the vet said we should not be adding any salt unless
there is a problem. She did not believe in maintenance levels. ~ jan


0.1% or 0.9lbs per 100 gallons. Ingrid

John Rutz wrote:
my mind ceased to funtion what is the maintenance dose of salt (
constant level not dip ) and how many Lbs per 1000 gal to achieve it
from 0


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

OTOH, Brett who breeds and raises incredible show koi does use salt in all his ponds.
Ingrid

~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:

This is correct, but John, regarding maintenance level, when I took the the
KHA class Sandy Yosha the vet said we should not be adding any salt unless
there is a problem. She did not believe in maintenance levels. ~ jan


0.1% or 0.9lbs per 100 gallons. Ingrid

John Rutz wrote:
my mind ceased to funtion what is the maintenance dose of salt (
constant level not dip ) and how many Lbs per 1000 gal to achieve it
from 0


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

The Japanese also salt all the time. We (here in the US) have found salt
resistant Trichodina as a result. I have treated salt resistant Trich
personally on Japanese Koi, but that is anecdotal.
To quote Doc Johnson, DVM: "The Japanese commonly maintain Koi under salted
conditions all year round, and so resistant strains of certain parasites are
not uncommon on these imported specimens". He has had the need to use double
salt concentration to Rx this parasite.
There has been a huge discussion on this topic, which resurfaced a few
months ago. I have saved all the responses, both pro and con, and if you
like I will send them to you in a series of emails.
I would not want to use up bandwidth on this NG for this seemingly yearly
discussion, unless it is absolutely necessary.
As far as the fish needing salt, they are fresh water fish, not brackish,
nor sal****er. They can certainly do well with some level of salt, certainly
much better than the plants will. (salting is great to inhibit algal and
other plant growth depending on its concentration.)
Many, many people have raised fish for years, without any forms of
supplementation. Others swear by salt. Most of the arguments each way are
anecdotal.
Let me know if you want the multiple discussion texts emailed to you...
Happy ponding,
Greg


wrote in message
...
OTOH, Brett who breeds and raises incredible show koi does use salt in all
his ponds.
Ingrid

~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:

This is correct, but John, regarding maintenance level, when I took the
the
KHA class Sandy Yosha the vet said we should not be adding any salt
unless
there is a problem. She did not believe in maintenance levels. ~ jan


0.1% or 0.9lbs per 100 gallons. Ingrid

John Rutz wrote:
my mind ceased to funtion what is the maintenance dose of salt (
constant level not dip ) and how many Lbs per 1000 gal to achieve it
from 0


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Let me know if you want the multiple discussion texts emailed to you...
Happy ponding,
Greg


wrote in message
...


thanks for the offer but my prolbem was i couldnt rememer if it was .01
or 0.1 it was a rehab dose anyhow so for three weeks Ill run salt
then diluter it out



John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

good judgement comes from bad experience, and that comes from bad
judgement

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

ok John..
it is 0.1 (usual Rx is 0.3, but salt resistant Trich requires 0.6)
Some plants don't tolerate 0.3 and above, for any appreciable amount of
time.
Happy ponding,
-- Greg


"John Rutz" wrote in message
...

Let me know if you want the multiple discussion texts emailed to you...
Happy ponding,
Greg


wrote in message
...


thanks for the offer but my prolbem was i couldnt rememer if it was .01
or 0.1 it was a rehab dose anyhow so for three weeks Ill run salt
then diluter it out



John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

good judgement comes from bad experience, and that comes from bad
judgement

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

I was told by a few people (who should know!) NOT to use salt with koi
in pond or tank.

Denise

Visit my gardens:

http://web1.in4web.com/mtcdrc

On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:00:02 -0400 (EDT), (Denise)
wrote:

I was told by a few people (who should know!) NOT to use salt with koi
in pond or tank.

Denise

Visit my gardens:

http://web1.in4web.com/mtcdrc


They're pretty much outvoted by others who should know.

The only thing that really seems to be disputed is how much.
See the salinity tutorial on the AKCA site (0.125%-0.25%). A recent
thread on the KoiVet board suggested 0.05%.

Steve J. Noll | Ventura California (zone 10)
| Glass Block Pond http://www.kissingfrogs.tv

I guess it becomes a matter of whether or not ALL the fish are sick, or if
it's just one (or a few). Salt is a *bear* to get back out of the pond -
many, many water changes. If the salt doesn't do what's expected, and you
have to try other meds, anything that's formalin based will become lethal to
the fish if the salt level is much above .05% (absolutely no more than
..08%). I try to keep a low level (.02-.05) of salt in the pond for osmotic
reasons, but I would much rather try to net the sick fish, plunk it in the
Q/H tank, and salt it there. It's much easier to adjust the percentage rate
in 200 gallons than it is in the pond. It's also easier and cheaper to
medicate the smaller tank. Caveat: there are also many times when you WANT
to medicate the whole pond, to get rid of the creeping crud that may be
hiding in plants or elsewhere!

Lee


"Denise" wrote in message
...
I was told by a few people (who should know!) NOT to use salt with koi
in pond or tank.

Denise

Visit my gardens:

http://web1.in4web.com/mtcdrc

Denise:
I am sure they meant do not use it continuously.
It is perfectly appropriate to use it intermittently for things such as:
1) high nitrites .. but just temporizing, along with water changes and the
need to determine why you had a spike
2) to treat certain parasitic diseases
3) some use it early in spring during "Aeromonas alley", to insure there are
no parasitic problems that can serve as portals of entry for bacteria
Personally, I have never, in the last 20 plus years of ponding (1st pond was
1981-1982) used salt routinely. I have used it only to Rx disease, and then
remove it with water change outs. If done correctly they DO remove the salt.
Dips Rx the fish, but the pond will still contain the parasite, won't it...
Happy ponding,
Greg
--


"Denise" wrote in message
...
I was told by a few people (who should know!) NOT to use salt with koi
in pond or tank.

Denise

Visit my gardens:

http://web1.in4web.com/mtcdrc

On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:00:02 -0400 (EDT), (Denise) wrote:

I was told by a few people (who should know!) NOT to use salt with koi
in pond or tank.

Denise

) Unless they're koi vets, our people out degree your people. ;o) Who
ARE are these few people? ) ~ jan

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

On 26 Jun 2003 11:26:20 -0500, "Lee Brouillet" wrote:

I guess it becomes a matter of whether or not ALL the fish are sick, or if
it's just one (or a few). Salt is a *bear* to get back out of the pond -
many, many water changes.

Yeah, but, people should be doing frequent partial water changes anyway,
right? ;o)

If the salt doesn't do what's expected, and you
have to try other meds, anything that's formalin based will become lethal to
the fish if the salt level is much above .05% (absolutely no more than
.08%).

If that were the case, I'd have dead fish, because I know I've used
formalin with salt at .15% with no problems. ~ jan



See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

jan JJsPond.us,

You know everyone who touts salt in the water posts the URLs from various
sources, but the thing that is interesting is that these degreed people are
dealing with aquaculture facilities not ponds. I have said this over and
over again when Rod has posted them and again and again when Ingrid has
posted them. I have even questioned Ruth office in Georgia which is the
main researcher that Ingrid always quotes and she says that her findings are
for aquaculture facilities not ponds. It is interesting the URL that Rod
always uses for telling you how to dose your water to the right percentage
is a sight that telling how much salt to put in your transport tanks for
trucking the fish over the open road. It has absolutely nothing to do with
ponds and using salt in ponds.

I guess no one actually reads these references because if they did they
would realize that they are not about ponds, but aquaculture techniques
dealing in rearing ponds and recirc systems where you deal with one pound of
fish in two gallons of water, which, by the way, is a lot denser than one
KOI per 100 gallons of water.

These "people" are leaders in their fields, but there are helping
aquaculture facilities not home ponders with keeping their KOI.

These URLs are from the university research facilities at Cornell, Purdue,
Pennsylvania, Texas, Georgia, and etc. but are working to keep aquaculture a
valid alternative agriculture for the U.S.

HTH

Tom L.L.
"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:00:02 -0400 (EDT), (Denise) wrote:

I was told by a few people (who should know!) NOT to use salt with koi
in pond or tank.

Denise

) Unless they're koi vets, our people out degree your people. ;o) Who
ARE are these few people? ) ~ jan

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

It seems to be a combination of high salt, high temp and formalin.
Formalin is specific to ich. Ich occurs when the water temp is cold and/or there is
a sudden drop in temperature. It is often used in spring to knock down spring
cooties. The salt level in winter (cold) is good at 0.05%, higher not recommended.
At this concentration and temp there is no problem using formalin.
Many people bring their salt up to 0.1% as the water warms up, which is the highest
level needed both kind to plants and kind to the fish for long term exposure. Higher
salt levels start to shred GF fins.
The beneficial effect of salt at this level is in stimulating the slime coat and on
the osmotic pressure on fish. It is not in "killing" the cooties. Running the salt
up higher trashes plants, maybe trashes the biobugs and is unreliable in killing
cooties anyway for whatever reason (resistance, etc). So there is no point in
running the salt up. Low salt levels have no down side. Ingrid


~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:
If that were the case, I'd have dead fish, because I know I've used
formalin with salt at .15% with no problems. ~ jan


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.