"Newbie Bill" wrote in message
...
Hi All - There is apparently some sub dynamic of this group that I am
totally unaware of. If someone would care to email me privately I would
appreciate it. I wrote a fairly lengthy (surprise, surprise)
'observation'
and have decided to delete it, because I really, really dont want to
offend
anyone or act like I'm right you're wrong.

I think you are reading far more into things then there really are. This is
just a big group of helpful people who enjoy making ponds, and sharing their
experiences, tips, n tricks.

No political agendas, no subterfuge, just an occasional ad type post from
some of the online pond supply places, which are pretty useful, actually.

I haven't been a regular here for more then a year though, and that's been
off an on, (we moved), so maybe there's a "secret circle" club I forgot to
join..


--
Gareee©
Homepage:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine.../mainframe.htm
Custom Figures, Wallpapers and more!

A lot of answers, and experience, depends on the pond.

I have a messy, wildlife type pond. My main goal is to see how many critters I
can attract and have been known to be thrilled to pieces over carnivorous
bladderwort and mayfly larvae.

Some folks have koi ponds. They actually know the names of the various types of
koi and can pronounce them. Koi have been called living jewels and they live up
to their names. Keeping koi is very exacting and watching your water parameters
is so important to keep them healthy and thriving.

Others are more plant oriented. They know the names of their lilies (unlike moi
who knows pink, white and yellow ;-) And they can actually grow
lotus (sigh, another goal I have yet to achieve).
And they can tell you the latin names of all the other pond plants. Keeping
plants healthy and thriving is a different operation too.

Some ponders combine all three. That's a juggling act! And combining all three
is again another specific set of skills.

Some of us like birds in our ponds,
others net the birds out. Some of us wish for
frogs, others buy earplugs. Some of us think snails are neat in the pond,
others prefer them with garlic and butter. Some of us drink beer by the pond,
others are coffee addicts
(raising hand).

We try to stay away from politics... and we usually succeed.
We sure would like you to hang out with us.
Besides we haven't explained PORG to you yet...


kathy :-)
A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/"Once upon a pond/A

Hi, Everyone has there own opinions and "methods" when it comes to
anything,including ornamental pond husbandry. First thing before I even
started a pond project I already had many years of keeping ornamental fish
in aquariums. I was way ahead of the "game"...then I did research for about
2 years before I even attempted starting my pond project. Other than the
basics of digging...liner(rubber roofing) and filter construction I have
found that my successes has been easy and that pond keeping isn't a big
deal. The pond/ponds I have are pretty much take care of themselves as long
as I do water changes,don't overfeed, don't crowd the fish etc. Everyone is
here to help the "newbie". They just have to glean the info and use what
they may think will work for them ,then tune them to their own ponding
situations. Thanks Mike
"Newbie Bill" wrote in message
...
Hi All - There is apparently some sub dynamic of this group that I am
totally unaware of.

Hi, Everyone has there own opinions and "methods" when it comes to
anything,including ornamental pond husbandry. First thing before I even
started a pond project I already had many years of keeping ornamental fish
in aquariums. I was way ahead of the "game"...then I did research for about
2 years before I even attempted starting my pond project. Other than the
basics of digging...liner(rubber roofing) and filter construction I have
found that my successes has been easy and that pond keeping isn't a big
deal. The pond/ponds I have are pretty much take care of themselves as long
as I do water changes,don't overfeed, don't crowd the fish etc. Everyone is
here to help the "newbie". They just have to glean the info and use what
they may think will work for them ,then tune them to their own ponding
situations. Thanks Mike
"Newbie Bill" wrote in message
...
Hi All - There is apparently some sub dynamic of this group that I am
totally unaware of.

"Gareee©" wrote in message
...
snip
I haven't been a regular here for more then a year though, and that's been
off an on, (we moved), so maybe there's a "secret circle" club I forgot
to
join..
snip

The first rule about rec.ponds, is Don't talk about rec.ponds.

BV.

Hi again

I've read all the responses, (most don't actually answer my questions, but
ill get to that later..)

It seems many people feel my pond is too small for koi, this is NOT a
problem for me, im quite happy to have other breeds of fish.. However I
will mention that Oasis (pond Product manufacturing company) produce a 223
litre pond Called Koi. that anyone would assume should be big enough for
Koi! (and i know 3 people with one and several Koi within (for several
years.) (6 + years in one case)

Now i have already kept fish and ponds for a long time (although my biggest
pond to date was only about 100 gallons (and was a nature pond (about to be
recreated on a larger scale)) (ok im only in me 30's so some have kept foir
much longer than me). this is where all the fish i already have are coming
from

this is my first onamental pond, and its been 4 years in the planning, im
not some ooh a pond would be nice, and 3 days later its done.. 6 months
later its gone again..

please could someone pass advice on the other questions i posed (expanding
foam to make a fountain base, and the sturgeon (who havent done it
since.. ))

Lost

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 10:08:54 -0400, "Benign Vanilla"
wrote:


"Gareee©" wrote in message
...
snip
I haven't been a regular here for more then a year though, and that's been
off an on, (we moved), so maybe there's a "secret circle" club I forgot
to
join..
snip

The first rule about rec.ponds, is Don't talk about rec.ponds.

The SECOND rules is not talking about the rule about not talking about the
rec.ponds... didn't you get the secret-circle memo, BV???

James, Seattle

"Newbie Bill" wrote in message
...
Hi All - There is apparently some sub dynamic of this
group that I am
totally unaware of.

No more than in any other newsgroup I've
ever been in.

[snips ahoy]

Perhaps I should not be commenting at all but I just
saw something in
this thread that I dont get. Maybe its something as
simple as you vets not
being allowed to say "You pond newbies are just too stupid
at first so we
are going to start you off really slowly". I resemble
that remark.

I've seen the same thing in the aquaria newsgroup
I frequent. Response to newbie posts tend to fall into
one of three broad categories:

1) Helpful but very very brief - "do water tests"

2) helpful with some explanation - "do water tests
like kh, pH, nitrates, so we can advise you better"

3) helpful with a chemistry degree - "do water
tests because if zf3 is higher than gl15 then
tmn0004 will be reduced signicantly below the
optimal j3e6p4 level for plants unless you stock
low light plants then the optimal p56sub8 level
will be *increased* unless your water has
3ppx salt..."

For newbies (I consider myself barely above
that level), generally the first two types of
explanation are most useful. I now know
enough about aquaria (and ponds) to prefer
category 2 explanations, but don't have the
patience (or education) to slog through most
of the category 3 explanations, although I
recognize their helpfulness to many.

But that's what some of the regulars here
were referring to, IMO. No secret agenda,
as someone else pointed out, just an awareness
that we all have different experiences and
different (current) knowledge levels and what
might be useful to you might be mind bogglingly
obscure or insulting baby talk to someone else.

Gail
near San Antonio TX

"Ka30P" wrote

Snips to clarification points:

Some of us think snails are neat in the pond,
others prefer them with garlic and butter.

Um - both work for me. Although I'm not
sure I would eat pond or aquarium snails...

Some of us drink beer by the pond,
others are coffee addicts
(raising hand).

Raising both hands since I do both. g

Gail

Good Morning Group! Thanks so much for being gentle to the newbie
questioning the thread. I thought for sure someone was going to give me the
ol "Jane you ignorant slut." line (SNL) Lest there be any question I
think this group is just flat out terrific, both for the knowledge gap they
try to fill on a constant basis and the people in general. I am a goofball
but it pleases me to think in some very small way I am a part of it. Yes,
in trying to research specific subjects I have come upon several groups that
were just innundated with immature banter. Here the banter seems most often
to be whether you drop that WH into the pond with your left hand or right
and what temperature the beer in the other hand should be I have met
several local ponders and they have been good people. My pond is filled
almost exclusively with plants that they have thinned/divided. Several have
droped by to see 'my problem' first hand. But the local message board often
is not very helpful, because most of the 'pros' there often will not reply.
I think they dont want to end each message by saying 'this is what worked
for me, you may have to modify it somewhat for your pond' - or - 'I dont
know but my guess would be....' I probably was just overreacting to a
misinterpreted inference that if you do such and such you WILL get this
result. My experience has been rarely is there a clear cut, cant miss
solution. But there are some clear cut if you do such and such you will
kill your fish rules. It is frustrating because every time a fish dies I
feel VERY badly it was probably at the hands of my ignorance, and yet I am
trying so hard to do good.
You guys are great! Thank you, thank you, thank you.............
Isle b'bac
Bill Brister - Austin, Texas

ps Inquiring minds have wondered what this secret handshake porgies thing
is


"Ka30P" wrote in message
...

A lot of answers, and experience, depends on the pond.

I have a messy, wildlife type pond. My main goal is to see how many
critters I
can attract and have been known to be thrilled to pieces over carnivorous
bladderwort and mayfly larvae.

Some folks have koi ponds. They actually know the names of the various
types of
koi and can pronounce them. Koi have been called living jewels and they
live up
to their names. Keeping koi is very exacting and watching your water
parameters
is so important to keep them healthy and thriving.

Others are more plant oriented. They know the names of their lilies
(unlike moi
who knows pink, white and yellow ;-) And they can actually grow
lotus (sigh, another goal I have yet to achieve).
And they can tell you the latin names of all the other pond plants.
Keeping
plants healthy and thriving is a different operation too.

Some ponders combine all three. That's a juggling act! And combining all
three
is again another specific set of skills.

Some of us like birds in our ponds,
others net the birds out. Some of us wish for
frogs, others buy earplugs. Some of us think snails are neat in the pond,
others prefer them with garlic and butter. Some of us drink beer by the
pond,
others are coffee addicts
(raising hand).

We try to stay away from politics... and we usually succeed.
We sure would like you to hang out with us.
Besides we haven't explained PORG to you yet...


kathy :-)
A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/"Once upon a pond/A

Newbie Bill wrote ps Inquiring minds have wondered what this secret handshake
porgies thing
is

Ah, ;-) a chance to post the PORG dogma!


You are a PORG,
or more accurately, you have been porged.
Rec.ponders have been tasked to go out and
assimilate lawns into ponds. Resistance is futile.
(If you are a Star Trek, Next Generation fan
you'll recognize we unashamedly ripped off the
term Borg (the half machine, half human beings
who absorb any race they come across into the
Borg Collective) and assimilated it unto our own selves.)
Your mission, and you must accept it (remember
resistance is futile), is to go forth and assimilate
your friends' and neighbors' lawns into ponds.
This is the PORG motto, creed, agenda, dogma, rules of the road, law, platform
and way of life.
The secret handshake... the memo got lost with the German Shepherd sized
Bullfrog whose orgins are now lost in the mists of rec.ponds time.



kathy :-)
A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/"Once upon a pond/A

Ahah - That was probably the feeling I couldnt put my finger on in reading
the thread. I have never been assimilated before. Believe me I am. I have
already gotten several wide eyed looks of astonishment when I have voice my
vision of someday having a bigger or more ponds, bogs etc. BTW - 'swentlop'
or did everyone not get that message.
Bill


"Ka30P" wrote in message
...
Newbie Bill wrote ps Inquiring minds have wondered what this secret
handshake
porgies thing
is

Ah, ;-) a chance to post the PORG dogma!


You are a PORG,
or more accurately, you have been porged.
Rec.ponders have been tasked to go out and
assimilate lawns into ponds. Resistance is futile.
(If you are a Star Trek, Next Generation fan
you'll recognize we unashamedly ripped off the
term Borg (the half machine, half human beings
who absorb any race they come across into the
Borg Collective) and assimilated it unto our own selves.)
Your mission, and you must accept it (remember
resistance is futile), is to go forth and assimilate
your friends' and neighbors' lawns into ponds.
This is the PORG motto, creed, agenda, dogma, rules of the road, law,
platform
and way of life.
The secret handshake... the memo got lost with the German Shepherd sized
Bullfrog whose orgins are now lost in the mists of rec.ponds time.



kathy :-)
A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/"Once upon a pond/A

welcome to the habit susan. i live directly in center of city of warwick but
step behind my fence and find yourself in a acre of natures beauty.i just
sitting out watching world go by
"Susan H. Simko" wrote in message
...
Ka30P wrote:

Some of us like birds in our ponds,
others net the birds out. Some of us wish for
frogs, others buy earplugs. Some of us think snails are neat in the
pond,
others prefer them with garlic and butter. Some of us drink beer by the
pond,
others are coffee addicts
(raising hand).

Thank you Kathy. Well put. *smile* I'm in the "coffee by the pond,
absolutely thrilled with anything willing to take up residence, trying
to keep it as natural as an artificial pond can get crowd, thrilled to
find the birds drinking out of it, spent an hour on Saturday watching a
dragonfly emerge from it's larval state, and looking for some native
salamanders or newts I can purchase for my pond". Looking around, I
think I'm alone now and not the only one in her or his own group. *grin*

Susan
shsimko[@]duke[.]edu

Ive had water in my 3600gal for over 4 months. Its had 100 fingerling
bluegill perch and 200~300 fathead minnows for 2 months. The minnow
death rate stableized last week. Up until then i lost minnows everyday
about 75 to 100 overall due to unaged water. It appears that waiting
until the water has had at least 1 algea bloom before stocking is good
advice. The 2 2' sturgeons you have will be lucky to make it to August
in a brand new pond. You may want to leave them in the bath for awhile
they would be Ok because Ive seen that size (1) in a 55gal aquarium
Oh yeah Ive only lost 2 bluegills but thats because their the
toughest fish around.
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 16:37:47 +0100, "Lostin1999"
wrote:

Hi again

I've read all the responses, (most don't actually answer my questions, but
ill get to that later..)

It seems many people feel my pond is too small for koi, this is NOT a
problem for me, im quite happy to have other breeds of fish.. However I
will mention that Oasis (pond Product manufacturing company) produce a 223
litre pond Called Koi. that anyone would assume should be big enough for
Koi! (and i know 3 people with one and several Koi within (for several
years.) (6 + years in one case)

Now i have already kept fish and ponds for a long time (although my biggest
pond to date was only about 100 gallons (and was a nature pond (about to be
recreated on a larger scale)) (ok im only in me 30's so some have kept foir
much longer than me). this is where all the fish i already have are coming
from

this is my first onamental pond, and its been 4 years in the planning, im
not some ooh a pond would be nice, and 3 days later its done.. 6 months
later its gone again..

please could someone pass advice on the other questions i posed (expanding
foam to make a fountain base, and the sturgeon (who havent done it
since.. ))

Lost

PORG, ??? please elaborate
Falcor