Thought I'd consult on my problems.

First the roses that have not
repeat bloomed for me.

Alex Mackenzie.
This is a 2 yr old plant. Its healthy as all get out and is
about 5' wide by 7' tall. After the first glorious 3 week
flush in May absolute silence. Every week I look to see
if the many new shoots are showing any buds nary a sign.
I will euthanize it if it does not put out for me.

Climbing Old Blush.
Its now a 3 feet tall six month old
shrub but it gave me 3 flowers in may
and thats it. Any ideas.

Louise Odier
Last year as a 4' shrub I got 4 distinct
flushes from it. This year as a 5' wide by 8'
giant I've got just the one May flush. How do
I get it to bloom again.

Compte De Chambord.
Isn't this a repeat bloomer? No
blooms since may and no sign of any either.
The only colorless giant in it bed.
Will Euthanize unless it puts out.

Kaiserin Auguste Viktoria.
It was a continual bloomer last year
but has put out just a single bud this year.
Might euthanize.

Next the Basal problems(lack of)

Iceberg
This is a 3 year old plant. I got
it as grafted w/ 3 1/2" canes.
One cane died but the the entire
4' wide by 4' tall bush is supported
by the 2 remaining canes. not a single basal
in 3 years. what gives. It seems very healthy
and is never without blooms.

Eden.
This is supposedly a pillar rose.
It 2 years old but is still a nice leafy
2'x2' shrub. Nary a bloom.
Nor any growth. nor any basals.

perplexed

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:28:50 GMT, "Theo Asir"
wrote:

Thought I'd consult on my problems.

First the roses that have not
repeat bloomed for me.

Alex Mackenzie.
This is a 2 yr old plant. Its healthy as all get out and is
about 5' wide by 7' tall. After the first glorious 3 week
flush in May absolute silence. Every week I look to see
if the many new shoots are showing any buds nary a sign.
I will euthanize it if it does not put out for me.

Climbing Old Blush.
Its now a 3 feet tall six month old
shrub but it gave me 3 flowers in may
and thats it. Any ideas.

I wouldn't worry about it. It should start throwing new canes any time
now. It doesn't bloom much the first year, because it's an early
blooming plant (the first in my garden to bloom every year) and it
doesn't bloom a lot again until fall (and even then, it's not a big
blooming). Right now, my HUGE Old Bloom doesn't have ANY blooms on it
and has only thrown the scattered bloom since the first flush.

Don't worry - the second year will give you a nice flush in early
spring. You should also start to see some fairly long canes starting
to develop this year. In the second year, I had some nice 8 - 10 foot
canes. That second year will see some really major growth as well.
Everything will probably be a little slower for you in KC than here in
Nashville, but down't worry, it should grow like gangbusters.

EXCEPT, I forgot that this is that "Zone 7" plant that you were
experimenting with (or was that The Fairy Cl. that you were thinking
about trying)"

If possible, I'd try to give it some winter protection if possible.
Right now, it shouldn't be too difficult, but as it grows bigger, you
might want to experiment with some sort of canopy. I know that during
the worst days of the last winter, I draped mine with a 15 foot
plastic tarp at night to be on the safe side. I only had to do that
about 3 times though.

My problem is now with my Aloha. It seems to be reverting to its
climbing form, instead of its bushy form. It's driving me nuts. I
don't know what to do. I think it's my poor pruning techniques...but I
have some almost 9 fot canes sticking out of one quadrant of the bush.
Looks very unbalanced...

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:28:50 GMT, "Theo Asir"
wrote:

Thought I'd consult on my problems.

First the roses that have not
repeat bloomed for me.

Alex Mackenzie.
This is a 2 yr old plant. Its healthy as all get out and is
about 5' wide by 7' tall. After the first glorious 3 week
flush in May absolute silence. Every week I look to see
if the many new shoots are showing any buds nary a sign.
I will euthanize it if it does not put out for me.

Climbing Old Blush.
Its now a 3 feet tall six month old
shrub but it gave me 3 flowers in may
and thats it. Any ideas.

I wouldn't worry about it. It should start throwing new canes any time
now. It doesn't bloom much the first year, because it's an early
blooming plant (the first in my garden to bloom every year) and it
doesn't bloom a lot again until fall (and even then, it's not a big
blooming). Right now, my HUGE Old Bloom doesn't have ANY blooms on it
and has only thrown the scattered bloom since the first flush.

Don't worry - the second year will give you a nice flush in early
spring. You should also start to see some fairly long canes starting
to develop this year. In the second year, I had some nice 8 - 10 foot
canes. That second year will see some really major growth as well.
Everything will probably be a little slower for you in KC than here in
Nashville, but down't worry, it should grow like gangbusters.

EXCEPT, I forgot that this is that "Zone 7" plant that you were
experimenting with (or was that The Fairy Cl. that you were thinking
about trying)"

If possible, I'd try to give it some winter protection if possible.
Right now, it shouldn't be too difficult, but as it grows bigger, you
might want to experiment with some sort of canopy. I know that during
the worst days of the last winter, I draped mine with a 15 foot
plastic tarp at night to be on the safe side. I only had to do that
about 3 times though.

My problem is now with my Aloha. It seems to be reverting to its
climbing form, instead of its bushy form. It's driving me nuts. I
don't know what to do. I think it's my poor pruning techniques...but I
have some almost 9 fot canes sticking out of one quadrant of the bush.
Looks very unbalanced...

Don't worry - the second year will give you a nice flush in early
spring. You should also start to see some fairly long canes starting
to develop this year. In the second year, I had some nice 8 - 10 foot
canes. That second year will see some really major growth as well.
Everything will probably be a little slower for you in KC than here in
Nashville, but down't worry, it should grow like gangbusters.

EXCEPT, I forgot that this is that "Zone 7" plant that you were
experimenting with (or was that The Fairy Cl. that you were thinking
about trying)"

Yup! this is the Z7 I'm pushing the envelope with.

Thanx for the reassurance I always thought
old blush was like a monthly rose. Will keep the
winter protection in mind. Just let it grow I guess.



My problem is now with my Aloha. It seems to be reverting to its
climbing form, instead of its bushy form. It's driving me nuts. I
don't know what to do. I think it's my poor pruning techniques...but I
have some almost 9 fot canes sticking out of one quadrant of the bush.
Looks very unbalanced...

Maybe its all that unaccustomed fertilizer you've
been feeding her. But Aloha is generally classified
as a large flowered pillar type climber. You could
try training it. I doesn't like being fenced however.

Mine keeps making sideways basals when I try
to strighten it up.

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City

Don't worry - the second year will give you a nice flush in early
spring. You should also start to see some fairly long canes starting
to develop this year. In the second year, I had some nice 8 - 10 foot
canes. That second year will see some really major growth as well.
Everything will probably be a little slower for you in KC than here in
Nashville, but down't worry, it should grow like gangbusters.

EXCEPT, I forgot that this is that "Zone 7" plant that you were
experimenting with (or was that The Fairy Cl. that you were thinking
about trying)"

Yup! this is the Z7 I'm pushing the envelope with.

Thanx for the reassurance I always thought
old blush was like a monthly rose. Will keep the
winter protection in mind. Just let it grow I guess.



My problem is now with my Aloha. It seems to be reverting to its
climbing form, instead of its bushy form. It's driving me nuts. I
don't know what to do. I think it's my poor pruning techniques...but I
have some almost 9 fot canes sticking out of one quadrant of the bush.
Looks very unbalanced...

Maybe its all that unaccustomed fertilizer you've
been feeding her. But Aloha is generally classified
as a large flowered pillar type climber. You could
try training it. I doesn't like being fenced however.

Mine keeps making sideways basals when I try
to strighten it up.

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City

Theo Asir complained:

Climbing Old Blush.
Its now a 3 feet tall six month old
shrub but it gave me 3 flowers in may
and thats it. Any ideas.

You're lucky. My has produced two flushes and 15 inches of growth.
What, you've never grown Kordesiis, two flowers the first year and no
noticeable growth? And then 8 foot canes in year two?

Louise Odier
Last year as a 4' shrub I got 4 distinct
flushes from it. This year as a 5' wide by 8'
giant I've got just the one May flush. How do
I get it to bloom again.

Sounds like she's growing great. Have you tried Superbloom?

Next the Basal problems(lack of)

Iceberg
This is a 3 year old plant. I got
it as grafted w/ 3 1/2" canes.
One cane died but the the entire
4' wide by 4' tall bush is supported
by the 2 remaining canes. not a single basal
in 3 years. what gives. It seems very healthy
and is never without blooms.

Ignore it. One of mine is OR and only has 4 basals. The budded one
probably has two that are thicker than boomsticks. It oozes new growth
out of every pore. Who needs basals? Some roses produce their basal
growth from low on only a few basal canes.

Eden.
This is supposedly a pillar rose.
It 2 years old but is still a nice leafy
2'x2' shrub. Nary a bloom.
Nor any growth. nor any basals.

But it is Eden? I mean you've seen the blooms? Mine did zip the first
year, like your 2 x 2. So I moved it. So here it is after 2.5 years in
the ground, finally with a cane or two
http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...denAwaits.jpg:

So it sounds like you're due but not overdue this year. It's new basal
season here...within the past two weeks. FYIm Eden does surprisngly
well with a serious whacking every few years...

In article eb126479b41e6931c6caa1a88f1b2659@TeraNews, Theo Asir
writes
Louise Odier
Last year as a 4' shrub I got 4 distinct
flushes from it. This year as a 5' wide by 8'
giant I've got just the one May flush. How do
I get it to bloom again.

You deadheaded, right? I find it's best to do it pretty vigorously, not
just snap off the buds. Then feed with Vitax and a few weeks later give
some liquid seaweed. Comte needs even tougher cutting back, really,
after the first flush, and he also likes a LOT of food - hey, these guys
are French - think of them as Gerard Depardieu.....
--
Jane Lumley

Climbing Old Blush.
Its now a 3 feet tall six month old
shrub but it gave me 3 flowers in may
and thats it. Any ideas.

You're lucky. My has produced two flushes and 15 inches of growth.
What, you've never grown Kordesiis, two flowers the first year and no
noticeable growth? And then 8 foot canes in year two?

Thought Old Blush was a China.
Thought chinas were rapid growing.
Remember though I got Old blush as
a 1 gallon plant about 18" high. So from
Feb to July only 18" of extra growth!!

Louise Odier
Last year as a 4' shrub I got 4 distinct
flushes from it. This year as a 5' wide by 8'
giant I've got just the one May flush. How do
I get it to bloom again.

Sounds like she's growing great. Have you tried Superbloom?

What is superbloom?
I have heard that there is a trick to getting
Louise to rebloom. Will someone share.


Next the Basal problems(lack of)

Iceberg
This is a 3 year old plant. I got
it as grafted w/ 3 1/2" canes.
One cane died but the the entire
4' wide by 4' tall bush is supported
by the 2 remaining canes. not a single basal
in 3 years. what gives. It seems very healthy
and is never without blooms.

Ignore it. One of mine is OR and only has 4 basals. The budded one
probably has two that are thicker than boomsticks. It oozes new growth
out of every pore. Who needs basals? Some roses produce their basal
growth from low on only a few basal canes.

Yep! there is a lot of new growth
but I tend to strip the lower 18" on many of my
roses to keep disease low. Iceberg does
not let me do this. Also those 2 basals
put out like a million twigs jamming everything up.
It has also turned into a 2 dimensional rose.
long but not broad or tall. I keep hoping a new basal might
go tall to give it a better shape.

http://home.everestkc.net/tasir/images/IcebergBush.jpg

heres a picture in may.
as you can see it is becoming ground cover almost.


Eden.
This is supposedly a pillar rose.
It 2 years old but is still a nice leafy
2'x2' shrub. Nary a bloom.
Nor any growth. nor any basals.

But it is Eden? I mean you've seen the blooms? Mine did zip the first
year, like your 2 x 2. So I moved it. So here it is after 2.5 years in
the ground, finally with a cane or two
http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...denAwaits.jpg:

So it sounds like you're due but not overdue this year. It's new basal
season here...within the past two weeks. FYIm Eden does surprisngly
well with a serious whacking every few years...

Did you move it into the sun or better soil or something?
Mine gets 6-7 hours of sun and it is the 1985 version.
MME Alf. Carriere 7' away is 5' tall & I planted it this may.

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City

"Jane Lumley" wrote in message
...
In article eb126479b41e6931c6caa1a88f1b2659@TeraNews, Theo Asir
writes
Louise Odier
Last year as a 4' shrub I got 4 distinct
flushes from it. This year as a 5' wide by 8'
giant I've got just the one May flush. How do
I get it to bloom again.

You deadheaded, right? I find it's best to do it pretty vigorously, not
just snap off the buds. Then feed with Vitax and a few weeks later give
some liquid seaweed.

Vigorously? Typically I use shears an inch
below the bloom. do I need to start hacking.
heres a picture in May.

http://home.everestkc.net/tasir/imag...eOdierBush.jpg

Its about 3 times that size now! but no blooms.
Maybe it needs to be smaller like it was last year
to ever get any bloom.

Also what is Vitax. I typically feed
with fish emulsion once a month. As you can
see none of my roses seem deprived.

Comte needs even tougher cutting back, really,
after the first flush, and he also likes a LOT of food - hey, these guys
are French - think of them as Gerard Depardieu.....

Tough cutting back as in to the nub? I did cut
a few cans back to 2' but they just put out these long
slender canes that flop all over but no blooms.

--
Jane Lumley


--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:29:41 GMT, "Theo Asir"
wrote:


Climbing Old Blush.
Its now a 3 feet tall six month old
shrub but it gave me 3 flowers in may
and thats it. Any ideas.

You're lucky. My has produced two flushes and 15 inches of growth.
What, you've never grown Kordesiis, two flowers the first year and no
noticeable growth? And then 8 foot canes in year two?

Thought Old Blush was a China.
Thought chinas were rapid growing.
Remember though I got Old blush as
a 1 gallon plant about 18" high. So from
Feb to July only 18" of extra growth!!

Have no fear! You should get some decent growth later this season. By
bloom time next spring, you should have a couple of those 8 foot
canes.

Here's mine the second season at bloom time (early May). I
deliberately overcontrasted it so that you could actually see it:

http://mywpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/OldBlush.jpg

The plant was definitely a little pup the first spring and early
summer (*maybe* 4 foot canes *at best*). If I remember correctly, it
grew quite a bit in the late summer and then well into late autumn.
Also, I think that it grew a little bit from late Feb. to late April,
when it started to bloom. I wish I had a good pic of the first year,
but alas, I don't.

In your climate, the growth *might* be a little slower. I'd definitely
look out for winter as well. This plant handily survived 8 degree
temps, but they were for very short periods (single nights with the
temp only hitting that mark the hour before dawn - this was very rare
indeed) , although, there was a good period of below freezing temps
the first winter (a week or so, if I remember correctly, where the
temps fluctuated between about 18 and 30 degrees).

Here was the plant this spring. You can see the massive growth that
you can expect:

http://mywpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/OldBlush2.jpg

The two dark lines are the rough boundaries of the plant. That's about
20 - 24 feet from one side to the other. The circle highlights the
actual base of the plant.

In article b8954ae6121deddb1cdc44147e18d712@TeraNews, Theo Asir
wrote:

Climbing Old Blush.
Its now a 3 feet tall six month old
shrub but it gave me 3 flowers in may
and thats it. Any ideas.

You're lucky. My has produced two flushes and 15 inches of growth.
What, you've never grown Kordesiis, two flowers the first year and no
noticeable growth? And then 8 foot canes in year two?

Thought Old Blush was a China.
Thought chinas were rapid growing.

Not here.

Remember though I got Old blush as
a 1 gallon plant about 18" high. So from
Feb to July only 18" of extra growth!!

If it's green and healthy, assume it's growing roots. I'm telling you,
you need to practice with Dortmund. Nothing for almost 2 years. Then 12
footers. Illusion did the same. Nothing for 12 months. Then 6 footers.

Louise Odier
Last year as a 4' shrub I got 4 distinct
flushes from it. This year as a 5' wide by 8'
giant I've got just the one May flush. How do
I get it to bloom again.

Sounds like she's growing great. Have you tried Superbloom?

What is superbloom?

Superbloom is a high P-K forumulation to maximize bloom. Can't say I've
every noticed a difference, so I don't use it much. Bandini makes a
product, and I think mine is by Greenlight or something.

I have heard that there is a trick to getting
Louise to rebloom. Will someone share.

Yeah, spill.
Next the Basal problems(lack of)

Iceberg
This is a 3 year old plant. I got
it as grafted w/ 3 1/2" canes.
One cane died but the the entire
4' wide by 4' tall bush is supported
by the 2 remaining canes. not a single basal
in 3 years. what gives. It seems very healthy
and is never without blooms.

Ignore it. One of mine is OR and only has 4 basals. The budded one
probably has two that are thicker than boomsticks. It oozes new growth
out of every pore. Who needs basals? Some roses produce their basal
growth from low on only a few basal canes.

Yep! there is a lot of new growth
but I tend to strip the lower 18" on many of my
roses to keep disease low. Iceberg does
not let me do this. Also those 2 basals
put out like a million twigs jamming everything up.

Yeah, just the way I like them.

It has also turned into a 2 dimensional rose.
long but not broad or tall. I keep hoping a new basal might
go tall to give it a better shape.

http://home.everestkc.net/tasir/images/IcebergBush.jpg

heres a picture in may.
as you can see it is becoming ground cover almost.

That's Iceberg. Looks very healthy and happy. Lots of foliage all the
way to the ground. Different strokes, but that is what I like in my
roses. You know, this could be the classic climate difference.
HelpMeFind lists Iceberg at 2.5 to 5 feet, width 2.5. My plant in the
ground is 7 feet tall, 5 feet wide. Mine OR restricted in a pot is 4'
tall, 5' wide.
http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...IcebergPot.jpg
Could be winter speaking to you.

Eden.
This is supposedly a pillar rose.
It 2 years old but is still a nice leafy
2'x2' shrub. Nary a bloom.
Nor any growth. nor any basals.

But it is Eden? I mean you've seen the blooms? Mine did zip the first
year, like your 2 x 2. So I moved it. So here it is after 2.5 years in
the ground, finally with a cane or two
http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...denAwaits.jpg:

So it sounds like you're due but not overdue this year. It's new basal
season here...within the past two weeks. FYIm Eden does surprisngly
well with a serious whacking every few years...

Did you move it into the sun or better soil or something?

Both, and better water. The first year it just barely survived.

Mine gets 6-7 hours of sun and it is the 1985 version.
MME Alf. Carriere 7' away is 5' tall & I planted it this may.

Yes, and Mme. Alfred is a castle-eater. Pierre de Ronsard is a pillar
rose, 7 ft canes max. But it does have growth nodes about 1/4 inch
apart on every twig. I think you're due any time. I transplanted mine
in January. My pic is in October. Late basal growth.

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:28:50 GMT, "Theo Asir"
wrote:

Thought I'd consult on my problems.

[snip specifics]

Sorry I'm late, Theo, I've been away.

Although I am in a much warmer (and just really climatically
different) zone than you, what struck me about your descriptions is
that these are all really young roses! If I read correctly, the oldest
one was 2 years? You owe it to yourself and your investment of time
and money to keep them at least 3, don't you think?

Also:

Kaiserin Auguste Viktoria.
It was a continual bloomer last year
but has put out just a single bud this year.
Might euthanize.

Is this the same rose that one sees listed as Crown Princess Victoria,
but in German? If so, I understand it is a great rose! Also, if it
bloomed continuously last year, you were clearly doing something right
then that you are not doing now. Or perhaps a problem has developed
that has nothing to do with what you are doing, but is one you must
address. Not the rose's fault!

Perhaps if you would not use words like "euthanize" I might not feel
compelled to defend them. G

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:52:58 +0100, Jane Lumley
wrote:


You deadheaded, right? I find it's best to do it pretty vigorously, not
just snap off the buds. Then feed with Vitax and a few weeks later give
some liquid seaweed. Comte needs even tougher cutting back, really,
after the first flush, and he also likes a LOT of food - hey, these guys
are French - think of them as Gerard Depardieu.....
--
Jane Lumley

Jane, this is funny! If I took your last suggestion I'd have to feed
and deadhead in heels and an upsweep!

"Shiva" wrote in message
s.com...
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:28:50 GMT, "Theo Asir"
wrote:

Thought I'd consult on my problems.

[snip specifics]

Sorry I'm late, Theo, I've been away.

Although I am in a much warmer (and just really climatically
different) zone than you, what struck me about your descriptions is
that these are all really young roses! If I read correctly, the oldest
one was 2 years? You owe it to yourself and your investment of time
and money to keep them at least 3, don't you think?

Well! my Garden area is not overly extensive.
I grow about 160 but every available
spot has been taken up.

So poor performers are always under
threat from roses I want to try.

At this moment the following
plants sit waiting for a spot.

Dublin Bay
Iceberg CL
Francesca
Goldbusch
Prairie Star
Autumn Delight
April Moon (second)

And these are putting out for me while still
in the pot!!!


Also:

Kaiserin Auguste Viktoria.
It was a continual bloomer last year
but has put out just a single bud this year.
Might euthanize.

Is this the same rose that one sees listed as Crown Princess Victoria,
but in German? If so, I understand it is a great rose! Also, if it
bloomed continuously last year, you were clearly doing something right
then that you are not doing now. Or perhaps a problem has developed
that has nothing to do with what you are doing, but is one you must
address. Not the rose's fault!

Perhaps if you would not use words like "euthanize" I might not feel
compelled to defend them. G

Baffles me. I had great things to say last year
about this rose. But this year its just sits there.
Grows a little but where are the blooms.

Only thing I might have done differently
is I took down a tree branch
and it nows get 2 more hours of sun.

Well I might have said the great compost heap
in the sky except I don't have one :-)

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City