Michelle Fulton writes

"Oz" wrote in message
...

This is so. That's because 99% of the population are more than 3
generations away from any farming activity. I am, for example. Food is
what you buy in a supermarket, and it's always overflowing with produce.

And always will, right?

That's the way it is here too, and in most countries with any economy. That
doesn't excuse the lack of forethought on the part of the government.

It has been a necessary part of UK government to have absolutely no
foresight whatsoever. For an example please see continued disarmament in
the face of the rise of hitler.

My mother, who was in germany both three years before war started (and a
few months before) was totally sure that war was inevitable three years
beforehand. She was also present at one of the later rallies and was
well aware of the power that hitler could wield.

--
Oz
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"Oz" wrote in message
...

It has been a necessary part of UK government to have absolutely no
foresight whatsoever. For an example please see continued disarmament in
the face of the rise of hitler.

My mother, who was in germany both three years before war started (and a
few months before) was totally sure that war was inevitable three years
beforehand. She was also present at one of the later rallies and was
well aware of the power that hitler could wield.

What do you suppose causes this. When did England turn into a country of
unrealistically strong traditions for "civility" and non-aggression
and....well...."head in the sand" government policy? I'm sure it had to do
with the reign of one monarch or another. I'm not making fun either.....it
really seems to be a condition.

M

Michelle Fulton writes

What do you suppose causes this. When did England turn into a country of
unrealistically strong traditions for "civility" and non-aggression
and....well...."head in the sand" government policy?

Probably about the time of victoria. Before that a very much smaller
civil service tended to have powerful and dynamic heads who weren't
afraid to make the odd cockup.

Mind you then there were no pensions to lose.

I'm sure it had to do
with the reign of one monarch or another. I'm not making fun either.....it
really seems to be a condition.

I know, staggering, isn't it?

--
Oz
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Gordon Couger wrote in message
...

The more I learn about the EU and UK the more baffled I am by the way
they
do things. You sit on an island and twice in the last century your
food
supply was nearly cut off by the Germans and you don't consider
agriculture
important to support a minimal research effort. In this country baring
a
volcanic eruption that distorts the climate for 2 or 3 years or a
drought of
biblical magnitude we have no problems with food security and we put a
petty
high value on agriculture research and cut the farmer a lot more slack
than
he really disserves.

Gordon

remember it is the baby boom generation in charge. They were brought up
to assume they would be fed "of right". Whereas their parents lived
through food rationing and in the cases of some, ate grass in the winter
of 44/45 our current generation regard deprivation as being unable to
afford the most fashionable training shoes.


--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'

Oz wrote in message
...
Gordon Couger writes

There is work being done that will do just that. It is probably
possible to
do it right now. The difficult part is the soil moisture sensor.

In the UK, this isn't really a problem. All soils reach field capacity
at some time during the winter (or in jim's case are permanently
there).

if we have dry soil a foot down then it has been a drought. I remember
once dry soil three feet down, which is unheard of and was after the big
drought in the 70s.


--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'


After that it's merely a matter of monitoring transpiration and
knowing
how much deficit you can get away with.

--
Oz
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Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be
accepted.

Oz wrote in message
...
Gordon Couger writes
"Oz" wrote in message
...
Gordon Couger writes

http://www.weihenstephan.de/pbpz/leach/leachen.html
Here is one for Bavaria, Germany the temperature and humidity
should not
require too much extrapolation.

Hardly. Bavaria is continental and significantly affected by local
mountain ranges.

The model should work. Temperatures and humidity are in the same ball
park.

!!!!

Not at all. Bavaria has *summer* and can grow varieties of maize that
wouldn't even reach tassling in the UK.

Heck, france grows varieties of maize that we can't grow here.

Hell, Oz can grow varieties of maize that I cannot grow here :-((

Even where we can grow them, they always look a bit on the short side
and soil type is really important if you want to harvest them.


--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'


--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be
accepted.

Gordon Couger wrote in message
...


honestly don't know. Staff in agricultural colleges are worried as
the
courses change towards golf and equestrian. I suspect that we have
so
few universities that do agriculture (Reading, Newcastle, Wye,
Nottingham, Bangor are the ones that spring to mind but I haven't
looked
at a prospectus for a generation) that they can fund themselves with
foriegn research. I know Reading used to take an awful lot of
students
from Africa and the commonwealth.

Our hydrology department was nearly half Chinese grad students once.

UK universities do do a lot of recruiting overseas, always have.


--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'


Gordon.

Jim Webster writes

if we have dry soil a foot down then it has been a drought. I remember
once dry soil three feet down, which is unheard of and was after the big
drought in the 70s.

1976, my first year here.

Burned a field and set the soil alight.

Ho-hum ....

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

Oz wrote in message
...
Jim Webster writes

if we have dry soil a foot down then it has been a drought. I
remember
once dry soil three feet down, which is unheard of and was after the
big
drought in the 70s.

1976, my first year here.

Burned a field and set the soil alight.

Ho-hum ....

we have an aerial photo taken at the height of the drought, grass looks
like stubble (same colour) and the lane which is tarmac looks like dried
earth from the dust settled on it and compacted.


--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'


--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be
accepted.

"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

Gordon Couger wrote in message
...

The more I learn about the EU and UK the more baffled I am by the way
they
do things. You sit on an island and twice in the last century your
food
supply was nearly cut off by the Germans and you don't consider
agriculture
important to support a minimal research effort. In this country baring
a
volcanic eruption that distorts the climate for 2 or 3 years or a
drought of
biblical magnitude we have no problems with food security and we put a
petty
high value on agriculture research and cut the farmer a lot more slack
than
he really disserves.

Gordon

remember it is the baby boom generation in charge. They were brought up
to assume they would be fed "of right". Whereas their parents lived
through food rationing and in the cases of some, ate grass in the winter
of 44/45 our current generation regard deprivation as being unable to
afford the most fashionable training shoes.

We do get more mileage out of our politicians. Jessie Helms is in his 90's
and hanging it up this year replace magnificent PITA for the whole world but
he remembers going through the depression. Bob Dole's wife who is replacing
him is no spring chicken. I don't know her age but her husband was a pilot
in WWII.

I expect due to the two wars the UK and EU demographics are different than
US and the teeny boppers are a much larger part of the voting population. I
never considered that. That would explain a lot, an awful lot.

God help you.

Gordon

"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

Oz wrote in message
...
Jim Webster writes

if we have dry soil a foot down then it has been a drought. I
remember
once dry soil three feet down, which is unheard of and was after the
big
drought in the 70s.

1976, my first year here.

Burned a field and set the soil alight.

Ho-hum ....

we have an aerial photo taken at the height of the drought, grass looks
like stubble (same colour) and the lane which is tarmac looks like dried
earth from the dust settled on it and compacted.

We call that summer

Gordon

"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

Gordon Couger wrote in message
...


honestly don't know. Staff in agricultural colleges are worried as
the
courses change towards golf and equestrian. I suspect that we have
so
few universities that do agriculture (Reading, Newcastle, Wye,
Nottingham, Bangor are the ones that spring to mind but I haven't
looked
at a prospectus for a generation) that they can fund themselves with
foriegn research. I know Reading used to take an awful lot of
students
from Africa and the commonwealth.

Our hydrology department was nearly half Chinese grad students once.

UK universities do do a lot of recruiting overseas, always have.

We have top notch hydrology department and the Chinese were getting ready
for Three Gorgeses Dam. The also have grad students in ever good genetic
engineering program they can get in.

Gordon

Gordon Couger wrote in message
.. .



we have an aerial photo taken at the height of the drought, grass
looks
like stubble (same colour) and the lane which is tarmac looks like
dried
earth from the dust settled on it and compacted.

We call that summer


well I've know one in over 40 years!


--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'


Gordon

Gordon Couger wrote in message
.. .

We do get more mileage out of our politicians. Jessie Helms is in his
90's
and hanging it up this year replace magnificent PITA for the whole
world but
he remembers going through the depression. Bob Dole's wife who is
replacing
him is no spring chicken. I don't know her age but her husband was a
pilot
in WWII.

ours rarely cling to the greasy pole so long. It is most unlikely that a
politician who gets to the top will still be in a position of power 20
years later. They are either knifed in the back by those coming up from
below or broken by the public and media who have discovered something in
their past.
We do get some who hang on, like Ted Heath who was still in the House of
Commons in his 80s but he hadn't had any real office for nearly 30
years.


I expect due to the two wars the UK and EU demographics are different
than
US and the teeny boppers are a much larger part of the voting
population. I
never considered that. That would explain a lot, an awful lot.

God help you.

Actually world wars give you a population with a high proportion of
single women in their fifties. Our population in Europe is aging
rapidly, one of our more serious problems.
But saying that the second world war did have a very serious effect in
Europe. What Americans do not realise is tha WW2 was also a European
civil war between socialism and fascism and socialism won.
We ended up with a population that believe they have a right to be fed,
that water is free, (and god help anyone who is trying to make a profit
out of it) and that all the utilities are rights.


--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'


Gordon

"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

well I've know one in over 40 years!

We definitely have more experience at "summer" than you, Jim, but I couldn't
manage if it rained here as much as it rains there. It may be that I grew
up where the sun shines over 300 days a year, but I get depressed if it's
cloudy for more than a couple of days. Actually, I think I suffer from sun
deprivation.

M :-)