Sacha writes

We saw it for the first time last night and enjoyed it for the most part. I
really *cannot* be doing with DG's voice, it drives me mad BUT we thought
the general thrust of the programme was at the least, interesting.

There's that half open mind I was referring to. The programmes, so
far, have been both quite entertaining and informative. Some of the
activities have been somewhat left field, but what would be the purpose
of a 'Design' DG retread of Mr Titchmarsh's 'How To Be...' series?

However, I am highly dubious about the extent of DG's real and genuine,
continuous input.

Oh, I'm more than highly dubious! In the ones you missed they even
appeared to imply that Diarmuid was running it all on-the-fly, which was
clearly absurd - and the latter would also greatly suggest that Diarmuid
only has a relatively small part in the running of the course. IIRC, he
was barely in the programme Friday night - aside from the trip to his
office.

BTW... I loved the question "Is this garden finished?" After asking it
and seeing the expression, you could sense the student desperately
trying to claw the question back, but it was already out there. : D

--
Flower Bobdew
South Facing Garden
South West: UK

On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 15:35:30 GMT, Janet Baraclough
wrote:

The message
from Flower Bobdew contains these words:

Janet Baraclough writes

He's making the students think for themselves, which frankly GW does not.

But at least they tell us how to put a lawn to bed for the
winter...*every* year.

That demonstrates the problem I have with GW. It's a constant drip of
"this is the right way and the right place and the right time", the
outdoor equivalent of painting by numbers :-(.

Surely though you recognise that it is helpful to people who are not
horticultural experts? While I recognise that you appear to be
criticising its "there is one correct way" stance it would be very
confusing if they said "you can it this way, but this other way can also
work and in 10% of cases method three will work." From what I can see
they do make appropriate distinctions where climatic or soil conditions
may make a particular plant a waste of time or at least very hard work.
We all have to start somewhere and learn from experience - GW wouldn't
work if it tried to pass on huge amounts of knowledge in 30 minutes.

Looking at the lawn issue I have yet to read a gardening book that does
not say Autumn is a good time to tend to your lawn in terms of improving
its drainage and top dressing it. What's the harm in giving an
audience, that I am sure changes over the years, a repeat of the advice?

There is endless criticism of all gardening programmes on this group but
I've yet to see anyone define what would make a good gardening
programme. Perhaps I've missed the thread that did?
--
Paul C

"Janet Baraclough" wrote
Do sport fans want to watch the same match repeated every season in
their prime time TV programme, for the sake of those who missed it the
last 10 times? Have you ever seen a food programme which kept
repeating "How to peel ,boil and mash potatoes" every year? So, why on
earth should gardeners be fobbed off with the same lazy basic topics
recycled endlessly, when gardening offers such an enormous untapped
range of interest?

I think that the constant repatition to meant for the newbies that take up
gardening every year..........

I'm surprised by your positive reaction to Gardeners School. Maybe I'll start
watching it again this week :~)
Jenny

On Mon, 7 Nov 2005 07:00:41 +0100, JennyC wrote:

I'm surprised by your positive reaction to Gardeners School. Maybe
I'll start watching it again this week :~)

I wouldn't bother. Production values appear to be on a par with
someones home movie. The only dialogue that is clear is the narrator.
You can barely hear anyone else, not even a radio mic for Dermot or
other primary speaker. No attempt to light interiors so not only can't
you hear what is happening you can hardly see it as well. What shots
are there are all wobbly and from very strange angles at times.

I guess it's cheap to make if the producer/director goes out with a
just DV camcorder. There hasn't been much spent in post production to
attempt to rescue things either. 1/10.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Dave Liquorice wrote:
I wouldn't bother. Production values appear to be on a par with
someones home movie. The only dialogue that is clear is the narrator.
You can barely hear anyone else, not even a radio mic for Dermot or
other primary speaker. No attempt to light interiors so not only can't
you hear what is happening you can hardly see it as well. What shots
are there are all wobbly and from very strange angles at times.

It's got to be 'funky' innit. I mean, weird camera angles should give
you the illusion that you're *there* man, with DG cool guy. No?! Me
neither ... It's frustrating. If they think that's the kinda stuff kids
would be attracted to gardening - they haven't done their research.

I guess it's cheap to make if the producer/director goes out with a
just DV camcorder. There hasn't been much spent in post production to
attempt to rescue things either. 1/10.

For a gardener, DG's hands are suspiciously not very 'earthy'. His
constant 'attacks' to the old gardening school is enough for me to
think he wants to be revolutionary but not sure what to go against. I
however enjoyed his garden at Chelsea and purchased a pot of
astrantia, I still think he wants fame and glory for just being alive.

I will never forget the programme pre-chelsea and the razamataz around
him at the time. He was so so so ambarassingly pleased with himself
when he shared 'his secrets' to the design of his garden, which was a
glass of wine he had inadvertently left on his drawing and that gave
him the 'round' aspect of his shed^^^igloo.

Janet Baraclough wrote:
The message
from "JennyC" contains these words:


"Janet Baraclough" wrote
[...]
why on earth should gardeners be fobbed off with the same lazy
basic topics recycled endlessly, when gardening offers such an
enormous untapped range of interest?

I think that the constant repatition to meant for the newbies that
take up gardening every year..........

The *prime-time* programmes provided for other interests, (
sport,
music,etc) do not endlessly repeat basic explanations for
inexperienced newbies. For instance, sports programmes don't
start
each new sports season by demonstrating the rules of football,
tennis
etc.

Well, yes. But that's a "yes, but..." The sports progs aren't setting
out to teach people how to play -- and, even so, they do explain
relevant laws and some of the techniques from time to time. I think
it's actually rather difficult to make a weekly gardening programme
for both the newcomer and the old hand. I can't find it in me to
complain about the basic stuff, as new gardeners are coming along all
the time, and very welcome they are, too.

I'm not at all sure what a prog exclusively for experienced gardeners
would be like. Maybe the best service they can realistically offer us
is things like the royal gardens series: I'm not at all sure it would
be viable to run an in-depth six-week series on, e.g., apple
varieties, then another six weeks of visits to warm-climate
specialists like Dave Poole, then another on seaside gardening, etc,
etc, much though I'd love it. They do have a duty to get a certain
minimum audience: that air time does cost a lot. Perhaps what we
should be doing is campaigning to get the Open University to make
these programmes for advanced gardeners.

--
Mike.

The message
from "Mike Lyle" contains these words:
.. I think
it's actually rather difficult to make a weekly gardening programme
for both the newcomer and the old hand.

We agree on that :-) Maybe newcomers and old hands could have
suitable programmes week and week about, instead?

I can't find it in me to
complain about the basic stuff, as new gardeners are coming along all
the time, and very welcome they are, too.

I've no objection at all to beginner- programmes for
beginner-anything. But why should garden programmes all be at one simple
undemanding level for all?

I'm not at all sure what a prog exclusively for experienced gardeners
would be like. Maybe the best service they can realistically offer us
is things like the royal gardens series: I'm not at all sure it would
be viable to run an in-depth six-week series on, e.g., apple
varieties, then another six weeks of visits to warm-climate
specialists like Dave Poole, then another on seaside gardening, etc,
etc, much though I'd love it.

I'd forgo a six week series and settle for one programme focussed
entirely on each subject, presented by an expert, about apples, or
garden power tools, or biodynamic gardening, or one of the great plant
hunters, or one special garden. Just like sports or music lovers, can
enjoy an entire programme devoted to one exciting match, or one superb
concert.

Janet.

Mike Lyle wrote:
I'm not at all sure what a prog exclusively for experienced gardeners
would be like.
(snip)

It's like comparing gardening mags. On one hand you have 'Gardeners
World' magasine which I don't read because I find it repetitif, basic
and far too commercial. However millions love it. Then you have the RHS
The Garden which I like very very much for its interviews and serious
approach to gardening with interesting new topics from around the
world. Then you have Garden Life which is all about nice glossy images
and the latest must have glowinthedark magnetic child friendly left
handed watering can.

Gardeners TV programmes are just the same. You have your flying
gardeners with young sexy Chris, gardeners world with Alan and Monty,
new series like a Year at Kew (which was splendid) and my favourite of
them all Riverside Cottage with Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstalls - which is
about food but home grown, something which is very much my interest.
Compare this with the videos I get at college, all made in the late 70s
.... beleive me, I'd rather watch DG prancing around in a tutu all
afternoon )

There should be something for everyone, which there is. In my opinion.

Janet Baraclough wrote:
The latter is the very essence of gardening. No, I don't think the GW
approach IS helpful. If it was, newsgroups like this one would not see
so many confused and anxious beginners desperate for failsafe
instructions. ITGOD, starting to garden was a relaxed, hit and miss
improvisation (it's still like that for me), and nobody looked to
strangers to tell one it was okay to have a lawnless garden :-)

Your comments are contradictory as always. You garden with the 'hit and
miss' do you? What has happened to all your great infalible comments
and advices?

There is endless criticism of all gardening programmes on this group but
I've yet to see anyone define what would make a good gardening
programme. Perhaps I've missed the thread that did?

You must have, that has been discussed countless times in many
threads. Including, this one.

Well, make us two. I've never seen a thread describing what would make
a good gardening programme. BUT because Janet seen it, lets not talk
about it again. In fact we can all switch our monitors now. There's
nothing to talk about because Janet has talked about it before.

There.

"La puce" wrote in message
oups.com...

Janet Baraclough wrote:
The latter is the very essence of gardening. No, I don't think the GW
approach IS helpful. If it was, newsgroups like this one would not see
so many confused and anxious beginners desperate for failsafe
instructions. ITGOD, starting to garden was a relaxed, hit and miss
improvisation (it's still like that for me), and nobody looked to
strangers to tell one it was okay to have a lawnless garden :-)

Your comments are contradictory as always. You garden with the 'hit and
miss' do you? What has happened to all your great infalible comments
and advices?

There is endless criticism of all gardening programmes on this group
but
I've yet to see anyone define what would make a good gardening
programme. Perhaps I've missed the thread that did?

You must have, that has been discussed countless times in many
threads. Including, this one.

Well, make us two. I've never seen a thread describing what would make
a good gardening programme. BUT because Janet seen it, lets not talk
about it again. In fact we can all switch our monitors now. There's
nothing to talk about because Janet has talked about it before.

There.


That just about sums up the Barrowcloth Dictatorship to a T

On 8/11/05 14:12, in article
, "La puce"
wrote:


Janet Baraclough wrote:
The latter is the very essence of gardening. No, I don't think the GW
approach IS helpful. If it was, newsgroups like this one would not see
so many confused and anxious beginners desperate for failsafe
instructions. ITGOD, starting to garden was a relaxed, hit and miss
improvisation (it's still like that for me), and nobody looked to
strangers to tell one it was okay to have a lawnless garden :-)

Your comments are contradictory as always. You garden with the 'hit and
miss' do you? What has happened to all your great infalible comments
and advices?

There is endless criticism of all gardening programmes on this group but
I've yet to see anyone define what would make a good gardening
programme. Perhaps I've missed the thread that did?

You must have, that has been discussed countless times in many
threads. Including, this one.

Well, make us two. I've never seen a thread describing what would make
a good gardening programme. BUT because Janet seen it, lets not talk
about it again. In fact we can all switch our monitors now. There's
nothing to talk about because Janet has talked about it before.

I'm beginning to feel that in your case, the switching off of your monitor
would be very restful for everyone else.

There.

You know, Flea, you really do need to stop this. Janet is a long-serving
member of this group who has given more good advice than you will ever give
if you live to be 100, especially if this is your attitude. ANYONE who
actually knows something about gardening, as opposed to just taking some
exams about it, will tell you that it is inevitably hit and miss at times.
It is *practical* experience that teaches us that. There is no such thing as
"one size fits all" in gardening - common sense with regard to climate, soil
conditions and quality of plants alone should tell you that.
And if, as a new member of this group, you bothered to look at the archives
before tearing into Janet - and only Janet, I notice - about the very, very
many discussions this group has had re the desirable content of tv
programmes, you would do both us and yourself a favour. For the sake of
everyone here, please try keeping your promises.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

Sacha wrote:
I'm beginning to feel that in your case, the switching off of your monitor
would be very restful for everyone else.

Ho hello there. But in your case, you are the ONLY one going on at me
as much as Janet, but you go on at me about Janet and not gardening.
Janet on another thread said that my advice to give potash to rhodos is
not necessary and my advice is therefore misleading.

I'm ****ed off about this, ****ed about her attitude to me on this
forum and if I want to tell her what I think, little Sacha is not going
to stop me. This is a forum for everyone and not Janet's forum for her
to decide if she/he is a troll and go on and on stalking people stating
this or that is 'misleading' or 'troll' etc.

You know, Flea, you really do need to stop this.

Well, Chacha, you don't mind do you, you stop first going on about
Janet and mind your own business and I perhaps will stop reminding you
this )

Janet is a long-serving
member of this group

So we should all shut up and just listen to her? Is that what you are
saying? Because she's old, has a great big moustache and has
contributed to this forum for a long time. Pardon!? Perhaps that's the
problem she so much talk about, the 'young' that want to know about
gardening tips every bloody time. Of course they do. It's called
learning!!!

who has given more good advice than you will ever give
if you live to be 100, especially if this is your attitude.

More advice than I will ever give? How do you know?! And who are you to
give this advice? Who are you and Janet for telling us what to talk
about and not talk about?!?

ANYONE who
actually knows something about gardening, as opposed to just taking some
exams about it, will tell you that it is inevitably hit and miss at times.

Just taking exams about it?! But you know nothing about me. You don't
know my gardens but a few members here do. But not you. And it's clear
why you don't. Are you telling me now that exams are not necessary?
Are you telling me that Janet has learnt EVERYTHING there is in her
back yard with her 5 phormiums but not me because I have 2 gardens in
Manchester, an allotment that I share with 2 other families and 2 other
garden in France? Huh?! Talk to me about conditions of soil and
different climate, you great turnip!

The big problem here is that she thought I was a troll because I went
against her. Well tough luck. She was wrong and her recent comments are
contradictory.

It is *practical* experience that teaches us that. There is no such thing as
"one size fits all" in gardening - common sense with regard to climate, soil
conditions and quality of plants alone should tell you that.

Practical experience I have for 41 years and not in one country either.
Perhaps that's young for you, perhaps I don't sport a big moustache
like Janet, occasionally I shave my legs and I don't eat children. That
doesn't mean that I don't care, love, have passion, about what I do.
She is always keen to give advice, but not keen to receive any and when
she's wrong she's rude. I cannot believe that you have totally ignored
her horrible posts to me but as soon as I give it back to her you're
there having a go at me. Well I'm standing up to her whether you like
it or not.

And if, as a new member of this group, you bothered to look at the archives
before tearing into Janet - and only Janet, I notice

I have made lovely friends in this forum and I don't give a fig if
Janet has talked about this or that in the past. She's been rude an
hour ago on another thread and I will not let go until she 1) leaves me
alone or 2) apologise when wrong. I mean, even Ruppert was scared to
suggest 'skimmia' in case Janet would prove him wrong! Last week
another individual got scared because he sent his post to the wrong
reply button and ended up sending her an email instead to urg. This has
got to stop! She's a bully.

- about the very, very
many discussions this group has had re the desirable content of tv
programmes, you would do both us

Who is us?

and yourself a favour. For the sake of
everyone here, please try keeping your promises.

Well Sacha dear, I will not stop contributing to this forum because you
want to protect Janet who thinks I am a troll. I refuse to stop until
Janet apologise for her disgusting behaviour. She is contradicting and
I don't give a monkey if you have talked about tv programme before,
beetroot or scarecrows. If I want to carry on talking about this issues
I will. I you're bored, go to another thread.

put tongue out

On 8/11/05 15:25, in article
, "La puce"
wrote:


Sacha wrote:
I'm beginning to feel that in your case, the switching off of your monitor
would be very restful for everyone else.

Ho hello there. But in your case, you are the ONLY one going on at me
as much as Janet, but you go on at me about Janet and not gardening.
Janet on another thread said that my advice to give potash to rhodos is
not necessary and my advice is therefore misleading.

Some of your advice IS misleading. Perhaps you think that the rest of us
should sit back and let you give bad advice because you have a high opinion
of it yourself?

I'm ****ed off about this, ****ed about her attitude to me on this
forum and if I want to tell her what I think, little Sacha is not going
to stop me. This is a forum for everyone and not Janet's forum for her
to decide if she/he is a troll and go on and on stalking people stating
this or that is 'misleading' or 'troll' etc.

You know, Flea, you really do need to stop this.

Well, Chacha, you don't mind do you, you stop first going on about
Janet and mind your own business and I perhaps will stop reminding you
this )

Oh, dear. Another tantrum thrower. What a shame.

YOU were the one that said you were going to ignore Janet and stop boring on
and on and on about her. I am the one suggesting you keep your word. If
you don't intend to do that and allow the group as a whole to discuss things
without you conducting a personal and immature vendetta, then you're a
deadweight, IMO and into the kill file you go.
snip
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

Thank God I am not the only one who considers the 'owners' of this newsgroup
to wear Jack Boots.

And thank you, I didn't know that the Barrowcloth had a moustache. Thought
the SS were clean shaven.



"La puce" wrote in message
ups.com...

Sacha wrote:
I'm beginning to feel that in your case, the switching off of your
monitor
would be very restful for everyone else.

Ho hello there. But in your case, you are the ONLY one going on at me
as much as Janet, but you go on at me about Janet and not gardening.
Janet on another thread said that my advice to give potash to rhodos is
not necessary and my advice is therefore misleading.

I'm ****ed off about this, ****ed about her attitude to me on this
forum and if I want to tell her what I think, little Sacha is not going
to stop me. This is a forum for everyone and not Janet's forum for her
to decide if she/he is a troll and go on and on stalking people stating
this or that is 'misleading' or 'troll' etc.

You know, Flea, you really do need to stop this.

Well, Chacha, you don't mind do you, you stop first going on about
Janet and mind your own business and I perhaps will stop reminding you
this )

Janet is a long-serving
member of this group

So we should all shut up and just listen to her? Is that what you are
saying? Because she's old, has a great big moustache and has
contributed to this forum for a long time. Pardon!? Perhaps that's the
problem she so much talk about, the 'young' that want to know about
gardening tips every bloody time. Of course they do. It's called
learning!!!

who has given more good advice than you will ever give
if you live to be 100, especially if this is your attitude.

More advice than I will ever give? How do you know?! And who are you to
give this advice? Who are you and Janet for telling us what to talk
about and not talk about?!?

ANYONE who
actually knows something about gardening, as opposed to just taking some
exams about it, will tell you that it is inevitably hit and miss at
times.

Just taking exams about it?! But you know nothing about me. You don't
know my gardens but a few members here do. But not you. And it's clear
why you don't. Are you telling me now that exams are not necessary?
Are you telling me that Janet has learnt EVERYTHING there is in her
back yard with her 5 phormiums but not me because I have 2 gardens in
Manchester, an allotment that I share with 2 other families and 2 other
garden in France? Huh?! Talk to me about conditions of soil and
different climate, you great turnip!

The big problem here is that she thought I was a troll because I went
against her. Well tough luck. She was wrong and her recent comments are
contradictory.

It is *practical* experience that teaches us that. There is no such
thing as
"one size fits all" in gardening - common sense with regard to climate,
soil
conditions and quality of plants alone should tell you that.

Practical experience I have for 41 years and not in one country either.
Perhaps that's young for you, perhaps I don't sport a big moustache
like Janet, occasionally I shave my legs and I don't eat children. That
doesn't mean that I don't care, love, have passion, about what I do.
She is always keen to give advice, but not keen to receive any and when
she's wrong she's rude. I cannot believe that you have totally ignored
her horrible posts to me but as soon as I give it back to her you're
there having a go at me. Well I'm standing up to her whether you like
it or not.

And if, as a new member of this group, you bothered to look at the
archives
before tearing into Janet - and only Janet, I notice

I have made lovely friends in this forum and I don't give a fig if
Janet has talked about this or that in the past. She's been rude an
hour ago on another thread and I will not let go until she 1) leaves me
alone or 2) apologise when wrong. I mean, even Ruppert was scared to
suggest 'skimmia' in case Janet would prove him wrong! Last week
another individual got scared because he sent his post to the wrong
reply button and ended up sending her an email instead to urg. This has
got to stop! She's a bully.

- about the very, very
many discussions this group has had re the desirable content of tv
programmes, you would do both us

Who is us?

and yourself a favour. For the sake of
everyone here, please try keeping your promises.

Well Sacha dear, I will not stop contributing to this forum because you
want to protect Janet who thinks I am a troll. I refuse to stop until
Janet apologise for her disgusting behaviour. She is contradicting and
I don't give a monkey if you have talked about tv programme before,
beetroot or scarecrows. If I want to carry on talking about this issues
I will. I you're bored, go to another thread.

put tongue out

Sacha wrote:
Some of your advice IS misleading. Perhaps you think that the rest of us
should sit back and let you give bad advice because you have a high opinion
of it yourself?

OK. Lets start from the beginning. What is misleading about giving
potash to rhodos? And what's misleading about putting copper rings
around plants?

Well, Chacha, you don't mind do you, you stop first going on about
Janet and mind your own business and I perhaps will stop reminding you
this )
Oh, dear. Another tantrum thrower. What a shame.

I'm not. I'm smiling

YOU were the one that said you were going to ignore Janet and stop boring on
and on and on about her.

I have but she keeps coming at me.

I am the one suggesting you keep your word. If
you don't intend to do that and allow the group as a whole to discuss things
without you conducting a personal and immature vendetta, then you're a
deadweight, IMO and into the kill file you go.

Right. Killfile me would indeed be easier for you to have the last
word. Brilliant debates that! Looks like a tantrum to me )