* La Puce wrote, On 05/06/2007 12:15:

I deal with it constantly because I help maintain a few small urban
gardens, and I often find myself having to explain that they can't
have it both way - they want the wild and colourful appearance of a
garden but won't accept the plants which make it so nor the bugs
attracted to it. I had to remove 3 lavenders because of bees, in case
little Jimmy gets bitten ...! Through my designs I always add a wild
area, usually from an exsisting patch where I see an abondance of bugs
and the attractive plants. I have never have to 'create' a wild area,
however small the garden is. And I've made myself a promise that once
I do get into designing for real clients, I will turn out work asking
me for a modern style garden with no bugs, no smell, no life, no
weeds. Because that is simply not a garden.


That reminds me of a late friend of mine, who was a professional
gardener, who used to despair of those people who wanted a garden to
encourage butterflies but who wouldn't contemplate anything that might
encourage caterpillars!

--
Cheers, Serena
If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible
warning. (Catherine Aird)

Robert wrote:

Perhaps the TV sanitised garden programmes have something to answer for

That maybe, and sheep mentality as well.


(or are we just being old fashioned)?

Not at all, rather modern fashioned: more and more people are conscious
of the excesses in gardening in the past and try to go the other way.
You have very healthy gardening principles, and seem to be very
diplomatic which is commendable.

It also may be didactic: if you had simply shouted and threatened action
it would have frozen your neighbours in their attitude. Now, in time,
maybe they'll see your own garden in a different light -
congratulations, you're making them evolve!


Greg

--
Aoh! La fée Haggis! - Un pti verre?
Oops! - Remember Culloden!
By Jove, ze fée Haggis m'a déconcentred!
No ficus = no spam

Les Hemmings wrote:

George.com wrote:

Things I may recommend include seeding their nice new 'perfect'
instant garden with an invasive weed such as thistle, dandelion or
wandering jew. Arrange a manner of dispensing the seed to the most
appropriate place in their garden without them suspecting you.

That would be difficult.
In any case Robert will be doing this without lifting a finger: once all
the weeds have grown back they'll be seeding to the winds...

The only problem is that it should trigger a weed-killer attack in the
neighbours, which isn't too good an idea, but maybe after a while, when
they realise they're fighting a losing war, they'll begin to see weeds
differently?


Japenese Knot weed?

Now that would be like triggering an h-bomb in your backyard!



Greg
--
Aoh! La fée Haggis! - Un pti verre?
Oops! - Remember Culloden!
By Jove, ze fée Haggis m'a déconcentred!
No ficus = no spam

On 5/6/07 13:02, in article ,
"Gregoire Kretz" wrote:

Les Hemmings wrote:

George.com wrote:

Things I may recommend include seeding their nice new 'perfect'
instant garden with an invasive weed such as thistle, dandelion or
wandering jew. Arrange a manner of dispensing the seed to the most
appropriate place in their garden without them suspecting you.

That would be difficult.
In any case Robert will be doing this without lifting a finger: once all
the weeds have grown back they'll be seeding to the winds...

The problem with that is that Mr & Mrs Tidy could complain to the local
council and start a real neighbourhood war going. I imagine that
caterpillars are happy to feed on nettles that have had their seeding heads
cut off?

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
(remove weeds from address)

On 5 Jun, 12:17, Robert wrote:
If only I was an old-fashioned gentleman (I may be old-fashioned but I
do not think that I could aspire to being a gentleman). Please bear in
mind that by the time I posted to urg I had cooled down considerably -
perhaps I should have used capitals in my text to indicate where things
got rather heated.

Oh good. There's fire in there somewhere then. That's a relief.

I do admit that lost my cool somewhat when the neighbours opening gambit
was 'what's the problem' in a somewhat aggressive manner and when I was
accused of being lazy and taking advantage of the previous elderly
occupant of their property by allowing our hedge to become a mess, I did
go ballistic.

I had that problem on my allotment with one member of the committee.
You've guessed it, I wasn't calm and I didn't retain any control when
she told me my hedge of blackberries finishing with a huge hawthorn
going down to the railway, both on *my* plot, wasn't tidy for *that*
allotments site. To me that's sounded like 'in this country we don't
do it like this'... Well, I scared her to death, because I don't think
she was prepared to hear what I had to tell her about her plot. Funny
enough she now likes me, in fact she even gave me a couple of scaffold
planks for free. I think she's after some of my blackberries ;o)

In message , Sacha
writes
On 5/6/07 13:02, in article ,
"Gregoire Kretz" wrote:

Les Hemmings wrote:

George.com wrote:

Things I may recommend include seeding their nice new 'perfect'
instant garden with an invasive weed such as thistle, dandelion or
wandering jew. Arrange a manner of dispensing the seed to the most
appropriate place in their garden without them suspecting you.

That would be difficult.
In any case Robert will be doing this without lifting a finger: once all
the weeds have grown back they'll be seeding to the winds...

The problem with that is that Mr & Mrs Tidy could complain to the local
council and start a real neighbourhood war going. I imagine that
caterpillars are happy to feed on nettles that have had their seeding heads
cut off?


Unfortunately they appear to have done something other than simply
cutting back the nettles. The two larger remaining stands of nettles
leaves are noticeably shrivelling and going dark grey/black. I am not
sure if this is the result of a contact weedkiller or a flame gun. I am
hoping that it was a flame gun as the thought of someone just spraying
weedkiller around is just not on.

--
Robert

In message , Kate
Morgan writes


We returned home today from a couple of days away to find that the
neighbours whose property runs across the bottom of our garden had
kindly tidied up the bottom of our garden.

Roberts post has caused a mild but simmering domestic between me and my
husband, he says he would have done the same as Roberts neighbours if
he thought that he was helping - he is a bit of a Peter Perfect - I
could not believe what he was saying, under no circumstances should
they have gone into your garden Robert says she stomping up the garden
muttering

angry kate

Kate - apologies if my post caused any disharmony in the Morgan
household. Whilst one of my motives for the post was undoubtedly to
seek sympathy for what I clearly consider to be an outrageous act I was
also interested to see if anyone would take up the issue on behalf of my
neighbours and if so what case they would make.

I have given this matter some thought and I admit that I would be
unhappy if a neighbour's garden became an eyesore, but I think that I
would define eyesore as something as being completely alien to the
concept of a garden e.g. something along the lines of a storage area for
rusting car bodies.

I have already indicated that I am not a fan of my neighbours style of
garden as it appears to me to be a sterile environment, but I do support
their right to interpret their space in their chosen manner.

Being as objective as I can be I accept that an old hawthorn/holly/ivy
hedge (although trimmed and topped less than 10 months ago) is not
anywhere as neat as a closely trimmed conifer hedge or fence panels. I
also accept that stands of nettles are not everyone's idea of an
attractive garden plant, even if only the very tops are visible.

Perhaps the way to think of this is that the modern 'perfect image'
style garden promoted by garden makeover programmes is not as forgiving
to its surroundings as the style supported by more relaxed, plant
focussed, gardening programmes.

--
Robert

On 5/6/07 16:01, in article , "Robert"
wrote:

In message , Sacha
writes
On 5/6/07 13:02, in article ,
"Gregoire Kretz" wrote:

Les Hemmings wrote:

George.com wrote:

Things I may recommend include seeding their nice new 'perfect'
instant garden with an invasive weed such as thistle, dandelion or
wandering jew. Arrange a manner of dispensing the seed to the most
appropriate place in their garden without them suspecting you.

That would be difficult.
In any case Robert will be doing this without lifting a finger: once all
the weeds have grown back they'll be seeding to the winds...

The problem with that is that Mr & Mrs Tidy could complain to the local
council and start a real neighbourhood war going. I imagine that
caterpillars are happy to feed on nettles that have had their seeding heads
cut off?


Unfortunately they appear to have done something other than simply
cutting back the nettles. The two larger remaining stands of nettles
leaves are noticeably shrivelling and going dark grey/black. I am not
sure if this is the result of a contact weedkiller or a flame gun. I am
hoping that it was a flame gun as the thought of someone just spraying
weedkiller around is just not on.

Good grief! I think - fear - this must be a spray. A flame gun's effects
would have been visible immediately. The danger of spray drift to your other
plants is enormous. This is trespass to the Nth degree and may well amount
to criminal damage if other plants die. In your shoes, I would write them a
very short letter, laying out in unemotional terms what they have done and
stating your dismay at their actions. Tell them you will expect them to
replace any cultivated plants that die as a result of their actions, at
their cost. And finish by telling them that this is a written warning to
them not to trespass onto your property again or to touch anything on it
from their side of the boundary. If you have a friendly, not too expensive
lawyer, get him to write it for you. I have never heard of anything so
cheeky and so incredibly rude and opinionated. In your turn, perhaps you do
have to cut the seed heads of what they consider to be weeds and doing so
can only strengthen your position, IMO.
Ask other neighbours if they happened to observe this because witnesses
might be a good idea.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
(remove weeds from address)

On 5/6/07 16:51, in article , "Robert"
wrote:
snip

I have already indicated that I am not a fan of my neighbours style of
garden as it appears to me to be a sterile environment, but I do support
their right to interpret their space in their chosen manner.

Being as objective as I can be I accept that an old hawthorn/holly/ivy
hedge (although trimmed and topped less than 10 months ago) is not
anywhere as neat as a closely trimmed conifer hedge or fence panels. I
also accept that stands of nettles are not everyone's idea of an
attractive garden plant, even if only the very tops are visible.

Perhaps the way to think of this is that the modern 'perfect image'
style garden promoted by garden makeover programmes is not as forgiving
to its surroundings as the style supported by more relaxed, plant
focussed, gardening programmes.

You know, Robert, I think you could send this to e.g. Gardener's World. I
do, really. I think it could make an interesting programme and I think,
too, that these programmes should be thinking of emphasising the need to
provide areas for wildlife in even the tiniest of gardens. The modern trend
is in that direction, not in that of concrete and steel and sunloungers.
That is rather passé now. Emphasise that, the urging to consider global
warming, start composting etc. and suggest they start a new series by
interviewing you and your neighbour to demonstrate opposing points of view.
Of course, if you happen to get a hedgehog or three into your garden.......
;-)

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
(remove weeds from address)

Robert writes
In message , Kate
Morgan writes

Kate - apologies if my post caused any disharmony in the Morgan
household. Whilst one of my motives for the post was undoubtedly to
seek sympathy for what I clearly consider to be an outrageous act I was
also interested to see if anyone would take up the issue on behalf of
my neighbours and if so what case they would make.

I think it would be very hard to make a case for trespassing on someone
else's land no matter what nuisance they were causing - eg if they had a
rat infested midden or a pile of dead cats in the middle of the lawn,
the correct action (if direct approach is not possible) is to inform the
authorities not take matters into your own hands.

In this case, the 'nuisance' is purely in the eyes of the (misguided)
beholder, and I am solidly on your side.
--
Kay

Roberts post has caused a mild but simmering domestic between me and my
husband, he says he would have done the same as Roberts neighbours if he
thought that he was helping - he is a bit of a Peter Perfect - I could not
believe what he was saying, under no circumstances should they have gone
into your garden Robert says she stomping up the garden muttering

angry kate

Kate - apologies if my post caused any disharmony in the Morgan household.
Whilst one of my motives for the post was undoubtedly to seek sympathy for
what I clearly consider to be an outrageous act I was also interested to
see if anyone would take up the issue on behalf of my neighbours and if so
what case they would make.

Please do not apologise Robert, my OH and I have been married for 40
something years and he still has the power to surprise me now and then :-))
However your problem neighbours seem to have behaved in the most appalling
manner, I wish I could offer words of wisdom but I think some of the other
posters are doing just that together with ideas for action. Hopefully
someone might have seen them in action as it must have taken some time to do
what they did, its all very well for us to say take action against them but
you have to live next door to them, must be tricky, I wish you well

kate

On Tue, 5 Jun 2007 12:17:24 +0100, Robert wrote
(in article ):

In message , Alan Johnson
writes
Robert wrote:

(or are we just being old fashioned)?

Yes, you probably are old-fashioned, possibly an old-fashioned
gentleman? I would have thrown an utter and complete, extremely
unsightly wobbly.

snip


I am most upset/annoyed about the chunk of hawthorn hedge they cut down
- I do appreciate that it was not and never could be a neatly trimmed
hedge, hawthorn does not do neat, but they had placed 2 metre fence
panels in front of it so that only about 30 cms would have been visible
from their side.



I agree with the others, that's a truly horrific story and I too would have
gone ballistic. I hope you told them that it is (I believe) against the law
to cut a hedge during the nesting season.



--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
bed and breakfast near Ludlow: http://www.stonybrook-ludlow.co.uk
Burne-Jones/William Morris window in Shropshire church:
http://www.whitton-stmarys.org.uk

In message et, Sally
Thompson writes

I agree with the others, that's a truly horrific story and I too would have
gone ballistic. I hope you told them that it is (I believe) against the law
to cut a hedge during the nesting season.


Unfortunately it is not against the law to cut a hedge during the
nesting season. It is an offence to intentionally damage or destroy a
nest in use or whilst being built, under the Wildlife and Countryside
Act 1981, however, 'intentionally' is the get out.

You may be thinking of Natural England's Environmental Stewardship
scheme for agricultural land which requires that hedgerows under
management must not be cut between 1 March and 31 July. From memory
there is around 178,000 Km of farm hedgerows under this requirement at
the moment which is a step in the right direction.

--
Robert

In message et, Sally
Thompson writes

I agree with the others, that's a truly horrific story and I too would have
gone ballistic. I hope you told them that it is (I believe) against the law
to cut a hedge during the nesting season.


Unfortunately it is not against the law to cut a hedge during the
nesting season. It is an offence to intentionally damage or destroy a
nest in use or whilst being built, under the Wildlife and Countryside
Act 1981, however, 'intentionally' is the get out.

You may be thinking of Natural England's Environmental Stewardship
scheme for agricultural land which requires that hedgerows under
management must not be cut between 1 March and 31 July. From memory
there are around 178,000 Km of farm hedgerows under this requirement at
the moment which is a step in the right direction.

--
Robert

"George.com" wrote after...

"Robert" wrote about an incredible act of vandalism
We returned home today from a couple of days away to find that the
neighbours whose property runs across the bottom of our garden had
kindly tidied up the bottom of our garden.

The tidying up consisted of cutting down to ground level part of an old
hawthorn hedge about 1.5 metres high with ivy growing up through it,
some holly and pyracantha, all adjacent to but on our side of the
boundary wall and an area of mature nettles about 1.5 x 2 metres that
was well over a metre from the boundary. When asked about this kind act
they explained that they did not like nettles and the untidy area and
that it should be all right for us as we had another hedge which
separated this part of our garden from our property and we would not see
it. The fact that they had placed a 2 metre fence between our
properties seemed to have escaped them. Admittedly the level of our
garden is about .6/.7 metre higher than their garden so it is possible
that they may have been able to have seen the tops of the nettles.

They do have an absolutely immaculate modern instant garden which is all
grey painted fence panels, different paving styles and hard landscaping
in the style of Dairmuid Gavin. Not our style at all (we are busy
turning much of our rear garden into a wildlife garden) but we do not
publicly question their wish to create a garden style which they find
pleasing. When I explained what we were trying to achieve they said 'I
suppose that means more nettles and brambles', 'you are being lazy' and
'flies come from your garden - why don't you take your grass cuttings to
the council tip'.

The strange thing is that there have been no disagreements between us in
the relatively short time since they took the property over - we
actually helped them when they wanted an old, dead stump of a Turkey oak
removed (shame really as it is where the Tawny owl used to frequently
park itself).

I have explained to them that they may not enter our garden again - they
are welcome to cut back any foliage that hangs over the boundary but
entering our garden to 'tidy up' the bits they do not like is definitely
out and that if we wish to allow nettles to grow to attract Red Admiral
and Comma butterflies then that really is up to us.

I commend you for your principled apparoach to handling this. Outwardly
calm
and laying down further instructions about how things will happen without
losing your rag. It also allows you to maintain a positive relationship
with
your neighbours.

Now, that aside, you need to consider pay back and revenge for the damage
done. Forget ranting & raving or legal action. You can achieve it without
them suspecting whilst still enjoying their misfortune. Things I may
recommend include seeding their nice new 'perfect' instant garden with an
invasive weed such as thistle, dandelion or wandering jew. Arrange a
manner
of dispensing the seed to the most appropriate place in their garden
without
them suspecting you. Another way may be a glyphosate 'bomb' strategically
directed on to a prize plant one evening. Ensure the delivery mechanism
won't be discovered. Google 'seed bomb' or 'seed grenade'.

Caper Spurge & Teasle seed and a catapult should do it.
In both cases they might possibly think it's not a weed until it's too late.
:-)
--
Regards
Bob Hobden
17mls W. of London.UK