I have a feeling that this could be embarassingly easy.

Can someone please identify the plant picture-linked below?
It is all over my garden at this time of the year, starting its life
is the form of little, dark-green "leaf-rosettes"; it also seems to
have very shallow roots (but I fear this may be deceptive).
It especially seems to like getting amongst the raspberry canes (what
doesn't?).

What is it? How does it propagate? How can I get rid of it?

The picture is not as clear as I had expected but:
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=o019co&s=3

PS I think I know why all(?) wild flower books are organised around
the colour, shape etc of the flower itself, but that is useless - and
too late - to identify most weeds.
Anyone know of an "identify by the (early) leaves" system. Probably
cannot be 100% accurate but a guide would be better than nothing.

As usual, thanks in advance.

In article ,
Rob writes:
|
| PS I think I know why all(?) wild flower books are organised around
| the colour, shape etc of the flower itself, but that is useless - and
| too late - to identify most weeds.
| Anyone know of an "identify by the (early) leaves" system. Probably
| cannot be 100% accurate but a guide would be better than nothing.

No. One of the things that annoys me about 'online publishing' is
the way that it imposes the restrictions of the coffee table books
onto a medium that could do far, far better. Few locations on the
Web do as well as an old-fashioned reference book, let alone the
traditional punched cards (for selection by knitting needle).

The construction and use of classification keys, based on an almost
arbitrary selection of criteria, has been well-understood for many
decades, and there were good programs to handle them in the 1960s.
Why aren't there now? I could easily write one, if I could get
access to the data in machine-readable form.

Mutter.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On Mon, 19 May 2008 07:00:53 -0700 (PDT), Rob
wrote:

I have a feeling that this could be embarassingly easy.

Can someone please identify the plant picture-linked below?
It is all over my garden at this time of the year, starting its life
is the form of little, dark-green "leaf-rosettes"; it also seems to
have very shallow roots (but I fear this may be deceptive).
It especially seems to like getting amongst the raspberry canes (what
doesn't?).

What is it? How does it propagate? How can I get rid of it?

The picture is not as clear as I had expected but:
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=o019co&s=3

PS I think I know why all(?) wild flower books are organised around
the colour, shape etc of the flower itself, but that is useless - and
too late - to identify most weeds.
Anyone know of an "identify by the (early) leaves" system. Probably
cannot be 100% accurate but a guide would be better than nothing.

As usual, thanks in advance.

Buddleia?

--
http://www.orderonlinepickupinstore.co.uk
Ah fetch it yourself if you can't wait for delivery
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk
http://www.holidayunder100.co.uk

Rob wrote:
I have a feeling that this could be embarassingly easy.

Can someone please identify the plant picture-linked below?
It is all over my garden at this time of the year, starting its life
is the form of little, dark-green "leaf-rosettes"; it also seems to
have very shallow roots (but I fear this may be deceptive).
It especially seems to like getting amongst the raspberry canes (what
doesn't?).

What is it? How does it propagate? How can I get rid of it?

The picture is not as clear as I had expected but:
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=o019co&s=3

PS I think I know why all(?) wild flower books are organised around
the colour, shape etc of the flower itself, but that is useless - and
too late - to identify most weeds.
Anyone know of an "identify by the (early) leaves" system. Probably
cannot be 100% accurate but a guide would be better than nothing.

As usual, thanks in advance.

I know nothing. But when I looked, my first thought was rosebay willow
herb (or similar). Someone will now tell me why the leaves are
completely wrong... or something. :-)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

In article ,
Martin writes:
|
| The construction and use of classification keys, based on an almost
| arbitrary selection of criteria, has been well-understood for many
| decades, and there were good programs to handle them in the 1960s.
| Why aren't there now? I could easily write one, if I could get
| access to the data in machine-readable form.
|
| You'll be recommending that we all install a copy of Oracle spit next.

Yes, I always recommend people to use a JCB to dig their vegetable
patch.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On Mon, 19 May 2008 15:00:53 +0100, Rob wrote
(in article
):

I have a feeling that this could be embarassingly easy.

Can someone please identify the plant picture-linked below?
It is all over my garden at this time of the year, starting its life
is the form of little, dark-green "leaf-rosettes"; it also seems to
have very shallow roots (but I fear this may be deceptive).
It especially seems to like getting amongst the raspberry canes (what
doesn't?).

The picture is not as clear as I had expected but:
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=o019co&s=3

As you say, the picture isn't at all clear, but could it possibly be common
hemp nettle? We get a lot of that and it is very easy to pull up.

--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
Posted through the usenet newsgroup uk.rec.gardening

In article ,
Martin writes:
|
| | The construction and use of classification keys, based on an almost
| | arbitrary selection of criteria, has been well-understood for many
| | decades, and there were good programs to handle them in the 1960s.
| | Why aren't there now? I could easily write one, if I could get
| | access to the data in machine-readable form.
| |
| | You'll be recommending that we all install a copy of Oracle spit next.
|
| Yes, I always recommend people to use a JCB to dig their vegetable
| patch.
|
| The PC version that used to be given away 15 years ago, would do the job.
| It was worth every cent. ) Scott/Tiger where are you?

Or Rothamsted's GENKEY (a Fortran version dating from the 1960s that
needed something like 32K, if I recall). As I said, it wouldn't
take me long to write one - probably less time than searching for
the code of one.

The problem is getting the data - and, worse, in persuading 'data
owners' that such a thing is worth doing.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 19/5/08 18:11, in article
, "Sally Thompson"
wrote:

On Mon, 19 May 2008 15:00:53 +0100, Rob wrote
(in article
):

I have a feeling that this could be embarassingly easy.

Can someone please identify the plant picture-linked below?
It is all over my garden at this time of the year, starting its life
is the form of little, dark-green "leaf-rosettes"; it also seems to
have very shallow roots (but I fear this may be deceptive).
It especially seems to like getting amongst the raspberry canes (what
doesn't?).

The picture is not as clear as I had expected but:
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=o019co&s=3

As you say, the picture isn't at all clear, but could it possibly be common
hemp nettle? We get a lot of that and it is very easy to pull up.

Sow thistle, maybe?
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

On 19/5/08 18:23, in article ,
"Martin" wrote:

On 19 May 2008 17:15:18 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:


In article ,
Martin writes:
|
| | The construction and use of classification keys, based on an almost
| | arbitrary selection of criteria, has been well-understood for many
| | decades, and there were good programs to handle them in the 1960s.
| | Why aren't there now? I could easily write one, if I could get
| | access to the data in machine-readable form.
| |
| | You'll be recommending that we all install a copy of Oracle spit
next.
|
| Yes, I always recommend people to use a JCB to dig their vegetable
| patch.
|
| The PC version that used to be given away 15 years ago, would do the job.
| It was worth every cent. ) Scott/Tiger where are you?

Or Rothamsted's GENKEY (a Fortran version dating from the 1960s that
needed something like 32K, if I recall). As I said, it wouldn't
take me long to write one - probably less time than searching for
the code of one.

The problem is getting the data - and, worse, in persuading 'data
owners' that such a thing is worth doing.

I agree with you.

What? That Rothamsted is the weed? ;-))

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

On 19 mei, 19:40, Sacha wrote:
On 19/5/08 18:23, in article ,





"Martin" wrote:
On 19 May 2008 17:15:18 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

In article ,
Martin writes:
|
| | The construction and use of classification keys, based on an almost
| | arbitrary selection of criteria, has been well-understood for many
| | decades, and there were good programs to handle them in the 1960s.
| | Why aren't there now? *I could easily write one, if I could get
| | access to the data in machine-readable form.
| |
| | You'll be recommending that we all install a copy of Oracle spit
next.
|
| Yes, I always recommend people to use a JCB to dig their vegetable
| patch.
|
| The PC version that used to be given away 15 years ago, would do the job.
| It was worth every cent. ) Scott/Tiger where are you?

Or Rothamsted's GENKEY (a Fortran version dating from the 1960s that
needed something like 32K, if I recall). *As I said, it wouldn't
take me long to write one - probably less time than searching for
the code of one.

The problem is getting the data - and, worse, in persuading 'data
owners' that such a thing is worth doing.

I agree with you.

What? *That Rothamsted is the weed? *;-))

--
Sachahttp://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -

- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -

I'll try again . . .
I am still trying to identify this plant.
I have added three photos to the link (I now have much more respect
for plant photographers - it is not easy !)
One shows the "opposite" leaf arrangement and how new shoots grow out
of the "armpits" -
rather like tomatos.
Another shows the tiny purple/blue flowers about to come out.
At this stage the bottom part of the main stem has (often?) turned
from green to red.
The third one is, I hope, a better overview.
The main stem, as well as becoming red for the bottom approx. 40%, is
also not
really round; it appears to have vertically-running ridges.
Total height of most mature specimen is about 60 cms.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27310121@N08/?saved=1

Thanks in advance.

[/i][/color]

I'll try again . . .
I am still trying to identify this plant.
I have added three photos to the link (I now have much more respect
for plant photographers - it is not easy !)
One shows the "opposite" leaf arrangement and how new shoots grow out
of the "armpits" -
rather like tomatos.
Another shows the tiny purple/blue flowers about to come out.
At this stage the bottom part of the main stem has (often?) turned
from green to red.
The third one is, I hope, a better overview.
The main stem, as well as becoming red for the bottom approx. 40%, is
also not
really round; it appears to have vertically-running ridges.
Total height of most mature specimen is about 60 cms.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27310121@N08/?saved=1

Thanks in advance.[/quote]

It looks like an epilobium - probably Epilobium parviflorum http://tinyurl.com/4k6z6e. Annual, tiresome but easily removed.

On 1 Jun, 18:13, Rob wrote:
On 19 mei, 19:40, Sacha wrote:





On 19/5/08 18:23, in article ,

"Martin" wrote:
On 19 May 2008 17:15:18 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

In article ,
Martin writes:
|
| | The construction and use of classification keys, based on an almost
| | arbitrary selection of criteria, has been well-understood for many
| | decades, and there were good programs to handle them in the 1960s.
| | Why aren't there now? *I could easily write one, if I could get
| | access to the data in machine-readable form.
| |
| | You'll be recommending that we all install a copy of Oracle spit
next.
|
| Yes, I always recommend people to use a JCB to dig their vegetable
| patch.
|
| The PC version that used to be given away 15 years ago, would do the job.
| It was worth every cent. ) Scott/Tiger where are you?

Or Rothamsted's GENKEY (a Fortran version dating from the 1960s that
needed something like 32K, if I recall). *As I said, it wouldn't
take me long to write one - probably less time than searching for
the code of one.

The problem is getting the data - and, worse, in persuading 'data
owners' that such a thing is worth doing.

I agree with you.

What? *That Rothamsted is the weed? *;-))

--
Sachahttp://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -

- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -

I'll try again . . .
I am still trying to identify this plant.
I have added three photos to the link (I now have much more respect
for plant photographers - it is not easy !)
One shows the "opposite" leaf arrangement and how new shoots grow out
of the "armpits" -
rather like tomatos.
Another shows the tiny purple/blue flowers about to come out.
At this stage the bottom part of the main stem has (often?) turned
from green to red.
The third one is, I hope, a better overview.
The main stem, as well as becoming red for the bottom approx. 40%, is
also not
really round; it appears to have vertically-running ridges.
Total height of most mature specimen is about 60 cms.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27310121@N08/?saved=1

Thanks in advance.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Definitely a willowherb. Not sure which one, though. The leaves look
like Epilobium angustifolium, but they develop quite tall spikes of
flowers.

On 2/6/08 12:36, in article
, "Ornata"
wrote:
snip

Definitely a willowherb. Not sure which one, though. The leaves look
like Epilobium angustifolium, but they develop quite tall spikes of
flowers.

I think it's a willowherb, too. We get plenty of it here! The good thing
about it is that it's very easy to pull up if you get it quickly.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

In message
,
Ornata writes
On 1 Jun, 18:13, Rob wrote:
On 19 mei, 19:40, Sacha wrote:





On 19/5/08 18:23, in article ,

"Martin" wrote:
On 19 May 2008 17:15:18 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

In article ,
Martin writes:
|
| | The construction and use of classification keys, based
| |
| | arbitrary selection of criteria, has been
| | well-understood for many
| | decades, and there were good programs to handle them in
| |
| | Why aren't there now? *I could easily write one, if I could get
| | access to the data in machine-readable form.
| |
| | You'll be recommending that we all install a copy of
| |
next.
|
| Yes, I always recommend people to use a JCB to dig their vegetable
| patch.
|
| The PC version that used to be given away 15 years ago, would
|do the job.
| It was worth every cent. ) Scott/Tiger where are you?

Or Rothamsted's GENKEY (a Fortran version dating from the 1960s that
needed something like 32K, if I recall). *As I said, it wouldn't
take me long to write one - probably less time than searching for
the code of one.

The problem is getting the data - and, worse, in persuading 'data
owners' that such a thing is worth doing.

I agree with you.

What? *That Rothamsted is the weed? *;-))

--
Sachahttp://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -

- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -

I'll try again . . .
I am still trying to identify this plant.
I have added three photos to the link (I now have much more respect
for plant photographers - it is not easy !)
One shows the "opposite" leaf arrangement and how new shoots grow out
of the "armpits" -
rather like tomatos.
Another shows the tiny purple/blue flowers about to come out.
At this stage the bottom part of the main stem has (often?) turned
from green to red.
The third one is, I hope, a better overview.
The main stem, as well as becoming red for the bottom approx. 40%, is
also not
really round; it appears to have vertically-running ridges.
Total height of most mature specimen is about 60 cms.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27310121@N08/?saved=1

Thanks in advance.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Definitely a willowherb. Not sure which one, though. The leaves look
like Epilobium angustifolium, but they develop quite tall spikes of
flowers.

It's not one of the larger flowered ones (angustifolium and hirsutum).
I'd guess that it's Epilobium montanum (broad-leaved willow-herb), as
that's the commonest of the small-flowered species, but the books don't
specifically mention is having vertically running ridges on the stem.

The key characters for E. montanum are a four-lobed stigma, all stem
leaves in pairs, and sessile (or at most shortly petiolate at the base).
E. lanceolatum (narrow-leaved willow-herb) also has a four-lobed stigma,
but the upper leaves are alternate (borne singly), and the leaves are
petiolate (stalked) and cuneate at the base. If it has a club-shaped
stigma there's several possibilities. One feature worth checking is the
number of vertically running ridges on the stem.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

On Jun 2, 7:22*pm, Stewart Robert Hinsley
wrote:
In message
,
Ornata writes





On 1 Jun, 18:13, Rob wrote:
On 19 mei, 19:40, Sacha wrote:

On 19/5/08 18:23, in article ,

"Martin" wrote:
On 19 May 2008 17:15:18 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

In article ,
Martin writes:
|
| | The construction and use of classification keys, based
| |
| | arbitrary selection of criteria, has been
| | well-understood for many
| | decades, and there were good programs to handle them in
| |
| | Why aren't there now? *I could easily write one, if I could get
| | access to the data in machine-readable form.
| |
| | You'll be recommending that we all install a copy of
| |
next.
|
| Yes, I always recommend people to use a JCB to dig their vegetable
| patch.
|
| The PC version that used to be given away 15 years ago, would
|do the job.
| It was worth every cent. ) Scott/Tiger where are you?

Or Rothamsted's GENKEY (a Fortran version dating from the 1960s that
needed something like 32K, if I recall). *As I said, it wouldn't
take me long to write one - probably less time than searching for
the code of one.

The problem is getting the data - and, worse, in persuading 'data
owners' that such a thing is worth doing.

I agree with you.

What? *That Rothamsted is the weed? *;-))

--
Sachahttp://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -

- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -

I'll try again . . .
I am still trying to identify this plant.
I have added three photos to the link (I now have much more respect
for plant photographers - it is not easy !)
One shows the "opposite" leaf arrangement and how new shoots grow out
of the "armpits" -
rather like tomatos.
Another shows the tiny purple/blue flowers about to come out.
At this stage the bottom part of the main stem has (often?) turned
from green to red.
The third one is, I hope, a better overview.
The main stem, as well as becoming red for the bottom approx. 40%, is
also not
really round; it appears to have vertically-running ridges.
Total height of most mature specimen is about 60 cms.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27310121@N08/?saved=1

Thanks in advance.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Definitely a willowherb. *Not sure which one, though. *The leaves look
like Epilobium angustifolium, but they develop quite tall spikes of
flowers.

It's not one of the larger flowered ones (angustifolium and hirsutum).
I'd guess that it's Epilobium montanum (broad-leaved willow-herb), as
that's the commonest of the small-flowered species, but the books don't
specifically mention is having vertically running ridges on the stem.

The key characters for E. montanum are a four-lobed stigma, all stem
leaves in pairs, and sessile (or at most shortly petiolate at the base).
E. lanceolatum (narrow-leaved willow-herb) also has a four-lobed stigma,
but the upper leaves are alternate (borne singly), and the leaves are
petiolate (stalked) and cuneate at the base. If it has a club-shaped
stigma there's several possibilities. One feature worth checking is the
number of vertically running ridges on the stem.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thank you all for your authoritative answers.
Willow herb : that is the direction I will look in to try and pin it
down a bit more.
And refresh my botany terms . . .
Rob