--
..
"Andrew May" wrote in message
...
Jules wrote:
On Fri, 08 May 2009 13:20:57 +0100, Andrew May wrote:
If I get a chance I will dig some more over the weekend. If it is a
septic tank then it should have a solid base at some point and I would
like to find it.

This is where you find a sodding great wartime air-raid shelter or other
such structure :-)

(have Google or any of the other imagery services got high-res data for
your area? A look at the lawn from above *might* reveal discolouration if
there's anything just below the surface there)


I did wonder whether it might be an air-raid shelter but given how it is
divided up the majority of the structure would have to have been above
ground. Besides the most likely would have been an Anderson Shelter and I
don't think they had any foundations. Just a corrugated iron shelter
buried in the ground with the soil removed to bury it spread over the top.
Very simple and quite efficient. Don't think they had inside toilets
either.

Microsoft Local Live has some pretty good aerial views of the area and
shows nothing untoward. Not that I would have expected it to. I planted
that particular section of lawn and it was well rotavated before being
sown. I am under the impression that that particular area had been a
vegetable patch so had probably been well dug will before I moved in.

Andrew


Local Historical Group?
Older residents in the area?


Mike

'Mike' wrote:

Local Historical Group?
Older residents in the area?

That might be my next port of call. Probably not interested in
individual septic tanks but may know how to find out when mains sewerage
was installed.

Andrew

On Fri, 08 May 2009 15:15:12 +0100, Andrew May wrote:
I did wonder whether it might be an air-raid shelter but given how it is
divided up the majority of the structure would have to have been above
ground. Besides the most likely would have been an Anderson Shelter and
I don't think they had any foundations. Just a corrugated iron shelter
buried in the ground with the soil removed to bury it spread over the
top. Very simple and quite efficient. Don’t think they had inside
toilets either.

Agreed it's unlikely to be any kind of family shelter - but more
substantial wartime structures exist all over the country and every so
often a new one does pop up which everyone had forgotten about.
Typically those are completely subterranean these days, with any
surface entrance long since demolished and back-filled; the only
remaining surface evidence being pipework for air filtration etc.

I think it's *extremely* unlikely you have something like that, of course,
and far more likely to be something related to a septic system, or some
sort of filtration bed related to plant growing - but at the same time,
stranger things have happened! :-)

cheers

Jules

On 2009-05-08 08:40:42 +0100, Andrew May said:

There is a little area of my garden in which nothing has ever grown. I
have known for a while that if I dig more than a couple of inches down
I come across bricks. A neighbour tells me that this area used to be a
chrysanthemum farm and I have always assumed that these bricks were the
foundations for a greenhouse of some description. Last weekend I took
the opportunity to dig further with a view to finally getting some
garden that I can grow something in. I now think that what I have is
not the foundations of a greenhouse but am at a loss to explain what it
is.

snip

My Nurserymen husband and stepson (Essex in the past, Devon now) both
say what you have there is a bog garden. In the - er - vernacular.

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
Exotic plants, shrubs & perennials
South Devon

Muddymike wrote:

On further inspection of the images I think you are right, The top/left
chamber may connect to the centre one further down, if so its certainly a
three stage septic tank. Ten rows of bricks down sounds high for the water
table. Is it that high outside the brickwork? If not it may be that the
chambers are still retaining water. If the rubble inside is loose it could
be the remains of the old lid structure. These were sometimes concrete slab
and sometimes corbeled brickwork the beginnings of which can be seen.

Keep digging you may find treasure.

No treasure yet :-) but a few more details emerge.

There would appear to be a solid base about 3'6" below ground level. At
least there is in the centre chamber so I assume there is in the other two.

As far as I can see - and remember it has muddy water at the bottom -
there is no obvious pipe connecting the left hand and centre chamber.
However there is a patch of brickwork at the bottom of the dividing wall
with no vertical mortar and winder than expected gaps. Could this be to
let water through? I don't know how septic tanks are supposed to work.

Finally, I dug out a bit of the lawn and there does not appear to be any
evidence that the construction ever extended beyond the front wall. I
was hoping I might find cut off bricks where the wall used to extend.

Any more ideas?

Andrew

Sacha writes
On 2009-05-08 08:40:42 +0100, Andrew May said:

There is a little area of my garden in which nothing has ever grown.
I have known for a while that if I dig more than a couple of inches
down I come across bricks. A neighbour tells me that this area used
to be a chrysanthemum farm and I have always assumed that these bricks
were the foundations for a greenhouse of some description. Last
weekend I took the opportunity to dig further with a view to finally
getting some garden that I can grow something in. I now think that
what I have is not the foundations of a greenhouse but am at a loss
to explain what it is.
snip

My Nurserymen husband and stepson (Essex in the past, Devon now) both
say what you have there is a bog garden. In the - er - vernacular.

That was my immediate thought. But if the OP is right in his hunch that
it was built at the same time as the house, isn't 1948 a little late to
be building houses without inside toilets?
--
Kay

My thoughts were sewerage etc, but unless they were settling tanks, surely
they are not deep enough, and as settling tanks, not sufficient area.

I had a friend who had a Crysant farm and he had nothing like that on the
site as far as I know.

Fascinating!

Mike


Now they are shown to be deeper, my money goes on Septic tanks

Mike

On 2009-05-08 20:55:06 +0100, K said:

Sacha writes
On 2009-05-08 08:40:42 +0100, Andrew May said:

There is a little area of my garden in which nothing has ever grown. I
have known for a while that if I dig more than a couple of inches down
I come across bricks. A neighbour tells me that this area used to be a
chrysanthemum farm and I have always assumed that these bricks were the
foundations for a greenhouse of some description. Last weekend I took
the opportunity to dig further with a view to finally getting some
garden that I can grow something in. I now think that what I have is
not the foundations of a greenhouse but am at a loss to explain what it
is.
snip

My Nurserymen husband and stepson (Essex in the past, Devon now) both
say what you have there is a bog garden. In the - er - vernacular.

That was my immediate thought. But if the OP is right in his hunch that
it was built at the same time as the house, isn't 1948 a little late to
be building houses without inside toilets?

It's a triple chamber septic tank, according to Matthew, who reckons
that the nursery that was there was probably built in the days before
mains sewerage was available. Had it been actual loos, it would have
been a block for the nursery workers.
--
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
Exotic plants, shrubs & perennials
South Devon

--
..
"Andrew May" wrote in message
...
Muddymike wrote:

On further inspection of the images I think you are right, The top/left
chamber may connect to the centre one further down, if so its certainly a
three stage septic tank. Ten rows of bricks down sounds high for the
water table. Is it that high outside the brickwork? If not it may be that
the chambers are still retaining water. If the rubble inside is loose it
could be the remains of the old lid structure. These were sometimes
concrete slab and sometimes corbeled brickwork the beginnings of which
can be seen.

Keep digging you may find treasure.

No treasure yet :-) but a few more details emerge.

There would appear to be a solid base about 3'6" below ground level. At
least there is in the centre chamber so I assume there is in the other
two.

As far as I can see - and remember it has muddy water at the bottom -
there is no obvious pipe connecting the left hand and centre chamber.
However there is a patch of brickwork at the bottom of the dividing wall
with no vertical mortar and winder than expected gaps. Could this be to
let water through? I don't know how septic tanks are supposed to work.

The fact that there are gaps in the mortar at the bottom of the wall tells
me that the first two chambers are in fact one, because water levels in
those would be equal in the two 'sections'. Once the water level had reached
the outlet into the other chamber, the solids would still be dropping to the
bottom of the first chamber for the water to flow over into the second as
before.

Once this second chamber was full, any solids which had escaped to the
second chamber would have sunk and 'in theory' the outlet from this second
chamber would be 'fairly' clean water, certainly not drinkable and in hot
weather still somewhat smelly.

I had a huge single chamber septic tank at my last house and the outfall
gave problems in that the water gave problems until I dug drainage ditches.

My neighbour, whose bungalow was built on my land in the 60's had a double
chamber septic tank, as yours but much larger, and his only trouble arose
was about 20 years later, when the porous pipe outfall from the second tank
which went underground to the bottom of the garden, not only let the water
out, but let the tree roots in and blocked it!!

Hope that gives an insight into septic tanks and almost comfirms, now you
have dug deeper, that you had a two chamber septic tank!!

Mike

Finally, I dug out a bit of the lawn and there does not appear to be any
evidence that the construction ever extended beyond the front wall. I was
hoping I might find cut off bricks where the wall used to extend.

Any more ideas?

Andrew

See http://www.erete.com.my/img/septic-tank-draw2.gif for an image of a 3
stage septic tank of similar design to the one found.

We had one of these contraptions at the last house.
http://www.a-tanks.co.uk/tank%20pics%20060.jpg

Mike

--
..
"Muddymike" wrote in message
om...
See http://www.erete.com.my/img/septic-tank-draw2.gif for an image of a 3
stage septic tank of similar design to the one found.

Never seen one or heard of one with a granule filter in it. I wonder how
often the granules have to be changed :-(( Mucky job.


We had one of these contraptions at the last house.
http://www.a-tanks.co.uk/tank%20pics%20060.jpgable

One of those wouldn't suit the OP with the water table so high! They have to
be concreteed down or they 'float' out of the ground when they have been
emptied!!

Mike

On Sat, 09 May 2009 16:35:55 +0100, 'Mike' wrote:

Never seen one or heard of one with a granule filter in it. I wonder how
often the granules have to be changed :-((

.... or what they did with them afterwards. Maybe that explains where Bisto
comes from.

On Sat, 09 May 2009 12:37:10 -0500, Jules wrote:

Never seen one or heard of one with a granule filter in it. I wonder
how often the granules have to be changed :-((

Second chamber, probably not all that often provided the sludge in the
first is not allowed to get into the second.

.... or what they did with them afterwards.

Hose 'em down and put 'em back I should imagine. Bit of water isn't going
to harm 20mm granite bits. I suspect it would be better (easier cleaner)
to just pump out the second chamber then back wash the chippings.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Sacha wrote:
On 2009-05-08 20:55:06 +0100, K said:

Sacha writes
On 2009-05-08 08:40:42 +0100, Andrew May
said:

There is a little area of my garden in which nothing has ever grown.
I have known for a while that if I dig more than a couple of inches
down I come across bricks. A neighbour tells me that this area used
to be a chrysanthemum farm and I have always assumed that these
bricks were the foundations for a greenhouse of some description.
Last weekend I took the opportunity to dig further with a view to
finally getting some garden that I can grow something in. I now
think that what I have is not the foundations of a greenhouse but
am at a loss to explain what it is.
snip

My Nurserymen husband and stepson (Essex in the past, Devon now) both
say what you have there is a bog garden. In the - er - vernacular.

That was my immediate thought. But if the OP is right in his hunch
that it was built at the same time as the house, isn't 1948 a little
late to be building houses without inside toilets?

It's a triple chamber septic tank, according to Matthew, who reckons
that the nursery that was there was probably built in the days before
mains sewerage was available. Had it been actual loos, it would have
been a block for the nursery workers.

Full marks for everyone who identified it as a septic tank. Based on the
information provided here I excavated further to the left of the first
chamber and came across what can only be described as a standard
inspection chamber. Straight through with a pipe from the house and
exiting into the first tank. I have added photos for the benefit of
anyone not by now terminally bored by this thread.

The one oddity is that the pipe that I thought was the inlet to the
first chamber in fact comes from above the water level in the inspection
chamber and the inlet to this is blanked off with a clay disk sealed
with pitch. This all seems to be a single piece of ceramic so I assume
it is intentional. Is it some sort of safety valve in the case of
exploding gasses?

Thanks for all your help. Now I know what it is I can start dismantling
it and planting the garden.

Andrew

In article ,
Andrew May writes:
Full marks for everyone who identified it as a septic tank. Based on the
information provided here I excavated further to the left of the first
chamber and came across what can only be described as a standard
inspection chamber. Straight through with a pipe from the house and
exiting into the first tank. I have added photos for the benefit of
anyone not by now terminally bored by this thread.

I couldn't see any new pictures, although the page was just updated.

The one oddity is that the pipe that I thought was the inlet to the
first chamber in fact comes from above the water level in the inspection
chamber and the inlet to this is blanked off with a clay disk sealed
with pitch. This all seems to be a single piece of ceramic so I assume
it is intentional. Is it some sort of safety valve in the case of
exploding gasses?

You might be describing an interceptor trap, but difficult to tell
without a picture.

Thanks for all your help. Now I know what it is I can start dismantling
it and planting the garden.

A pity there' nothing useful to use it for.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]