Just back from a small Greek island a few miles from Turkey, where we
saw a large oak tree, with leathery evergreen leaves about 9cm long and
3 cm wide, with toothed edges.

But the most striking thing was the acorns - almost 5cm long, peering
out of a thick shaggy cup 5.5cm diameter.

Best identification so far is Quercus calliprenos. But I think the
scales on the cup of that one are turned out at the tip, whereas the
ones on mine are laid flat.
--
Kay

On 2009-10-30 11:33:48 +0000, K said:

Just back from a small Greek island a few miles from Turkey, where we
saw a large oak tree, with leathery evergreen leaves about 9cm long and
3 cm wide, with toothed edges.

But the most striking thing was the acorns - almost 5cm long, peering
out of a thick shaggy cup 5.5cm diameter.

Best identification so far is Quercus calliprenos. But I think the
scales on the cup of that one are turned out at the tip, whereas the
ones on mine are laid flat.

Was it Kastellorizo, Kay? If so, lucky you but lucky you, anyway! We
have a super book on the plants of Crete and I'll have a look in there.
But if you think it's specific to one island that might not help.
However, given the winds there and the occasional volcano throwing
things about, that's probably not likely.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
Shrubs & perennials. Tender & exotics.
South Devon

Sacha writes
On 2009-10-30 11:33:48 +0000, K said:

Just back from a small Greek island a few miles from Turkey, where we
saw a large oak tree, with leathery evergreen leaves about 9cm long
and 3 cm wide, with toothed edges.
But the most striking thing was the acorns - almost 5cm long,
peering out of a thick shaggy cup 5.5cm diameter.
Best identification so far is Quercus calliprenos. But I think the
scales on the cup of that one are turned out at the tip, whereas the
ones on mine are laid flat.

Was it Kastellorizo, Kay? If so, lucky you but lucky you, anyway! We
have a super book on the plants of Crete and I'll have a look in there.
But if you think it's specific to one island that might not help.
However, given the winds there and the occasional volcano throwing
things about, that's probably not likely.

No, Kalymnos. A limestone island fantastic for climbing, walking, caving
and snorkelling.

I don't imagine for a minute it's specific to one island, but the Greek
islands are so spread around that saying we were a few miles from Turkey
(we could see Bodrum) seemed the best way of giving the location. Q
calliprenos is also known as the Palestinian or Levantine Oak.

I've looked in the Blamey/Grey-Wilson Wildflowers of the Med and not
been able to identify it. The leaves are like Q aegilops (Q macrolepis)
(Valonia Oak) which occurs on Crete, but the acorns are much larger than
the 2-3cm quoted, and the cups have flat rather than recurved scales.
--
Kay

"K" wrote in message
...
Just back from a small Greek island a few miles from Turkey, where we saw
a large oak tree, with leathery evergreen leaves about 9cm long and 3 cm
wide, with toothed edges.

But the most striking thing was the acorns - almost 5cm long, peering out
of a thick shaggy cup 5.5cm diameter.

Best identification so far is Quercus calliprenos. But I think the scales
on the cup of that one are turned out at the tip, whereas the ones on
mine are laid flat.
--
Kay


Hi Kay,

Could it be from Quercus macrocarpa, the Burr (or Bur) Oak?

Spider

On 2009-10-30 11:33:48 +0000, K said:

Just back from a small Greek island a few miles from Turkey, where we
saw a large oak tree, with leathery evergreen leaves about 9cm long and
3 cm wide, with toothed edges.

But the most striking thing was the acorns - almost 5cm long, peering
out of a thick shaggy cup 5.5cm diameter.

Best identification so far is Quercus calliprenos. But I think the
scales on the cup of that one are turned out at the tip, whereas the
ones on mine are laid flat.

Some years ago one of the compilers, John Fielding, gave us "Flowers
of Crete", (ISBN I84246 079 X ) This mentions several oaks, which I'll
list but I'm wondering if this one fits your bill. It's Quercus
ithaburensis subsp. macrolepis and "Its large acorn cups are very
distinctive with long spreading scales". Looking at the photo it's
described as having 'huge acorns and receptacle' and I'd certainly
describe the recptacle as 'shaggy' while the leaves are certainly
toothed. They don't think it's native as it was widely cultivated in
Europe for tanning. The oaks listed in the index a Quercus
brachyphylla, cerris, coccifera, frainetto, ilex, ithaburensis,
ithaburensis subsp. macrolepis, pubescens. I hope an image search on
these helps to ID the one you saw.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
Shrubs & perennials. Tender & exotics.
South Devon

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 13:16:16 +0000, K wrote:

Sacha writes
On 2009-10-30 11:33:48 +0000, K said:

Just back from a small Greek island a few miles from Turkey, where we
saw a large oak tree, with leathery evergreen leaves about 9cm long
and 3 cm wide, with toothed edges.
But the most striking thing was the acorns - almost 5cm long,
peering out of a thick shaggy cup 5.5cm diameter.
Best identification so far is Quercus calliprenos. But I think the
scales on the cup of that one are turned out at the tip, whereas the
ones on mine are laid flat.

Was it Kastellorizo, Kay? If so, lucky you but lucky you, anyway! We
have a super book on the plants of Crete and I'll have a look in there.
But if you think it's specific to one island that might not help.
However, given the winds there and the occasional volcano throwing
things about, that's probably not likely.

No, Kalymnos. A limestone island fantastic for climbing, walking, caving
and snorkelling.

I don't imagine for a minute it's specific to one island, but the Greek
islands are so spread around that saying we were a few miles from Turkey
(we could see Bodrum) seemed the best way of giving the location. Q
calliprenos is also known as the Palestinian or Levantine Oak.

I've looked in the Blamey/Grey-Wilson Wildflowers of the Med and not
been able to identify it. The leaves are like Q aegilops (Q macrolepis)
(Valonia Oak) which occurs on Crete, but the acorns are much larger than
the 2-3cm quoted, and the cups have flat rather than recurved scales.

I went to Kalymnos when I was younger and did a lot of walking around
the forest and getting lost. I remember the unusual oak trees which I
think are the sawtooth oak. The leaves match your description. I
remember thinking they were so different to the oak trees in England.
The small island next to Kalymnos also had lots of unusual trees but I
can't remember the name of the island.

Steve



--
Neural Planner Software Ltd www.NPSL1.com

Stephen Wolstenholme writes
I went to Kalymnos when I was younger and did a lot of walking around
the forest and getting lost.

Are you sure that was Kalymnos? Kalymnos has very few large trees and
certainly nothing which could be described as a forest.

I remember the unusual oak trees which I think are the sawtooth oak.
The leaves match your description. I remember thinking they were so
different to the oak trees in England.

This was one solitary tree. I haven't seen any others on the island. It
was in the Vathy valley, which has a number of mature plane trees. But
this tree was a long way from those. Otherwise all the trees in the
valley were the various fruit trees, with a few pistacia.

The small island next to Kalymnos also had lots of unusual trees but I
can't remember the name of the island.

Telendos? It has a remnant pine forest, then the usual scrub of pistacia
and juniper.

--
Kay

Spider writes

"K" wrote in message
...
Just back from a small Greek island a few miles from Turkey, where we saw
a large oak tree, with leathery evergreen leaves about 9cm long and 3 cm
wide, with toothed edges.

But the most striking thing was the acorns - almost 5cm long, peering out
of a thick shaggy cup 5.5cm diameter.

Best identification so far is Quercus calliprenos. But I think the scales
on the cup of that one are turned out at the tip, whereas the ones on
mine are laid flat.

Could it be from Quercus macrocarpa, the Burr (or Bur) Oak?

No - the leaves are more linear, and are toothed rather than lobed.
While the acorn size s right, the cup is more massive.
--
Kay

"K" wrote in message
...
Spider writes

"K" wrote in message
...
Just back from a small Greek island a few miles from Turkey, where we
saw
a large oak tree, with leathery evergreen leaves about 9cm long and 3 cm
wide, with toothed edges.

But the most striking thing was the acorns - almost 5cm long, peering
out
of a thick shaggy cup 5.5cm diameter.

Best identification so far is Quercus calliprenos. But I think the
scales
on the cup of that one are turned out at the tip, whereas the ones on
mine are laid flat.

Could it be from Quercus macrocarpa, the Burr (or Bur) Oak?

No - the leaves are more linear, and are toothed rather than lobed. While
the acorn size s right, the cup is more massive.
--
Kay


The leaves sound a bit like Quercus aesculefolia, but I can't find an image
of the acorn.

Spider

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 20:56:26 +0000, K wrote:

Stephen Wolstenholme writes
I went to Kalymnos when I was younger and did a lot of walking around
the forest and getting lost.

Are you sure that was Kalymnos? Kalymnos has very few large trees and
certainly nothing which could be described as a forest.

I remember the unusual oak trees which I think are the sawtooth oak.
The leaves match your description. I remember thinking they were so
different to the oak trees in England.

This was one solitary tree. I haven't seen any others on the island. It
was in the Vathy valley, which has a number of mature plane trees. But
this tree was a long way from those. Otherwise all the trees in the
valley were the various fruit trees, with a few pistacia.


I phoned an old friend who was there with me. She thinks the trees
were on Patmos. It was about 45 years ago I may be a bit mixed up with
the other islands. I'm not so sure that it was Patmos and now I'm not
sure about Kalymnos either. There was a valley with a spring which
supplied a citrus plantation. I'm being a bit generous with the term
"forest" but there were lots of trees.

Steve

--
Neural Planner Software Ltd www.NPSL1.com

Stephen Wolstenholme writes
I phoned an old friend who was there with me. She thinks the trees were
on Patmos. It was about 45 years ago I may be a bit mixed up with the
other islands. I'm not so sure that it was Patmos and now I'm not sure
about Kalymnos either. There was a valley with a spring which supplied
a citrus plantation. I'm being a bit generous with the term "forest"
but there were lots of trees.

Well, that could be Vathy on Kalymnos, if by trees you meant the
citruses (over an area of about 5 miles by 1 mile). There is the only
all-year stream on the island running through the village at the
harbour, under the main square with a well-like opening where you can
see huge fish and eels. But there are very few *big* trees - the odd
fig and mulberry about the same size as the citruses - the only big
trees were a few planes at Platanos, and this oak at the bottom of the
'Italian road' coming over the mountains from the main town.
--
Kay

Sasha wrote:

Some years ago one of the compilers, John Fielding, gave us "Flowers
of Crete", (ISBN I84246 079 X ) This mentions several oaks, which I'll
list but I'm wondering if this one fits your bill. It's Quercus
ithaburensis subsp. macrolepis and "Its large acorn cups are very
distinctive with long spreading scales". Looking at the photo it's
described as having 'huge acorns and receptacle' and I'd certainly
describe the receptacle as 'shaggy' while the leaves are certainly
toothed.

That's the same species as mentioned in my other post (which crossed
with yours) - my scales are flat to the cup, not curved outwards, which
is I assume what is meant by spreading. And googling shows a cup with
scales sticking outwards. Though it is very close.

Unless someone has a better idea, I think Q calliprinos remains the best
bet:
http://www.flowersinisrael.com/Querc...rinos_page.htm
--
Kay

Spider writes


The leaves sound a bit like Quercus aesculefolia, but I can't find an image
of the acorn.

The only reference to that that I can find by Googling is to your post!
;-)
--
Kay