In article ,
says...

Have bought 3 tickets for next Thursday, never been to the show, (but
have been to the Palace) Any advice on getting the best show
experience appreciated

Feet WILL get tired and hot and possibly stepped on by others. If
there are ladies in your group, I suggest they wear comfortable shoes
with flat heels; with more foot protection than strappy sandals. Take a
notebook, pen, and camera to record desirable plants/designs etc.If you
have a weakness for plant catalogues take plenty of loose change; most
growers charge a pound or two for catalogues on show stands. Small
foldaway sunhat/plasticmac/umbrella/suncream and water in small backpack
covers all weather possibilities. Foldup strong bag if you're likely to
buy plants.

Janet.

On 2013-07-02 16:10:36 +0100, David Hill said:

On 02/07/2013 13:13, Derek wrote:
Have bought 3 tickets for next Thursday, never been to the show, (but
have been to the Palace) Any advice on getting the best show
experience appreciated

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Lincolnfuchsiasociety.info

(Any Olympic GameMakers here?)

Take wellies with you. if it rains hard or has rained hard parts cut up.
With wellies who cares?
Other than that Enjoy.

If wellies aren't needed, I wear my old, disgraceful and intensely
comfortable Docksides for such things. Shoes that are 'kind' are so
important the whole day can be wrecked without them. But of course,
that goes for any show, really. Our last visit there must be about 6
years ago but we bought a collapsible wheelbarrow, which we filled with
plants we bought as we went along and then took it to the plant crêche
and picked the lot up at the end. Imo, Hampton Court is *much* better
than Chelsea. Not only can you actually see the Show Gardens, you can
buy plants, not just order them! Other than the social kudos, the
whole 'Chelsea hype' evades my comprehension. It's over-crowded, the
showground is small and when it rains, everyone herds into the marquee
where you get knocked about by other people, who you, in turn, are
knocking about! Last time we went - again very many years ago - we
were staying just round the corner and got in as soon as the gates
opened. The weather wasn't good and the crowds round the Show Gardens
were so deep that we gave up, got pummelled in the marquee by rucksacks
and their owners, sheltering from the drizzle and went back to where we
were staying for tea. We just gave up, frankly! Hampton Court is a far
more enjoyable experience, ioo.
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

The kind of birds that are of thrush size or a bit larger and peck the ground with a strong stabbing motion are mainly:
woodpeckers
waders
thrushes
crows

So if we are content that it is not a ring ouzel (and a juvenile doesn't meet the description either) or leucistic blackbird, there aren't really any other thrushes it could be. There's no crow meeting that description. No woodpecker, juvenile, female or otherwise meets the description. So I'm wondering if this could be a wader, as these often have white wing flashes. Lapwing is most common but has white underparts. Redshank have dark underparts in the breeding seasons, and is the only other thing I can think of in about the right size range. so that's something to consider.

On 2013-07-03 16:50:54 +0100, echinosum said:

'Sacha[_10_ Wrote:
;986649']I'm also going to put this in the bird group but I have twice
seen a
new-to-us bird in the garden that I don't know. One of the nursery team

has seen it, too and he doesn't know it either. I saw it from a
distance so my description isn't going to be perfect! It's a bit bigger

than a blackbird and appears to have a dark back and belly. But it has
white cheeks and (I think) a pale 'chin' and white flashes in the
wings. If the bird I saw this morning is the same as the one I saw a
few days ago, the white wing markings are very distinctive as it flies
away from you, against the dark brown or black of its body. There may
be a flash of white on the tail and there may be a lighter brown or
chestnut cap to its head but I'm not at all sure of those. On both
occasions, it was feeding under conifers, once under the Atlantic cedar

and once under the Pinus montezumae. It was feeding from the ground
with an aggressive and frequent stabbing motion.
We live surrounded by farmland in the South Hams and our garden has
extensive cover for birds.

The kind of birds that are of thrush size or a bit larger and peck the
ground with a strong stabbing motion are mainly:
woodpeckers
waders
thrushes
crows

So if we are content that it is not a ring ouzel (and a juvenile doesn't
meet the description either) or leucistic blackbird, there aren't really
any other thrushes it could be. There's no crow meeting that
description. No woodpecker, juvenile, female or otherwise meets the
description. So I'm wondering if this could be a wader, as these often
have white wing flashes. Lapwing is most common but has white
underparts. Redshank have dark underparts in the breeding seasons, and
is the only other thing I can think of in about the right size range. so
that's something to consider.

It was too small for a crow and didn't have the movements or coloration
of a thrush. While we're not far from the Dart as the bird flies, we've
never seen waders here and its legs weren't long enough either, so the
woodpecker idea still seems most likely. Needless to say, we haven't
seen it again!
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

It was too small for a crow and didn't have the movements or coloration
of a thrush. While we're not far from the Dart as the bird flies, we've
never seen waders here and its legs weren't long enough either, so the
woodpecker idea still seems most likely. Needless to say, we haven't
seen it again!

This is the Female Greater spotted Woodpecker, the size would be about
right, but I've never seen any of them on the ground,
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps75a5dd38.jpg
David @ a damp side of Swansea Bay

Woodpeckers pecking on the ground are most often green woodpeckers, but spotted woodpeckers are sometimes seen doing it.

On 2013-07-04 09:14:30 +0100, David Hill said:


It was too small for a crow and didn't have the movements or coloration
of a thrush. While we're not far from the Dart as the bird flies, we've
never seen waders here and its legs weren't long enough either, so the
woodpecker idea still seems most likely. Needless to say, we haven't
seen it again!

This is the Female Greater spotted Woodpecker, the size would be about
right, but I've never seen any of them on the ground,
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps75a5dd38.jpg

David @ a damp side of Swansea Bay

I've seen those on our nut feeders but I think that's a real
possibility. The bird was in the shadow of the foot of the Pinus
montezumae and what I thought was a russet or chestnut cap on its head
may well have been the red splodge. It was mostly side on to me, so I
wouldn't have seen the red rump. Later today, I'll scatter some bird
seed in that area and see if it attracts it again. I'm more likely to
get pigeons and jackdaws though!
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

When I worked in London, and it was free for RHS members, I used to go after work - everyone else was starting their journey home, so it was very pleasant. But the no-sales was a nuisance - gardening wouldn't be half they challenge without all these impulse-buy plants ;-)

I much preferred the monthly shows in the RHS halls at Vincent Square. Quiet, things to buy, different theme each month so you weren't trying to take in too much information all at once.

Now I just don't like the whole thing about shows - the crowds, the difficulty of finding the few stalls you'd be interested in - so I don't go to any of them.

The other problem with GSW is that it has white underparts. The Green WP has more uniform coloration underneath, though an adult one should appear distinctly colourful: a juvenile is rather grey-ish, but wouldn't appear dark Sacha gives the impression it was a fairly dark bird.

If it's definitely bigger than a thrush, what about a juvenile jackdaw? They have some paler patches around the head and neck. Or leucistic jackdaw?

My general approach is that on the whole a bird that is hard to identify is much more likely something fairly common misinterpreted than something rare. Most "suspected hoopoes" turn out to be jays, and most "suspected golden orioles" are green woodpeckers. Though of course on rare occasion they are as suspected. I have seen a smew on my local sewage works pond, a pair of Carolina wood ducks on the town pond, and a dalmatian pelican on a nearby reservoir, none of them were in any doubt. Though none of them is anything like as unlikely as a bird-book would have you beileve, because all of them are kept in collections and escape from time to time.

On 2013-07-06 20:50:23 +0100, Malcolm said:

In article , David Hill
writes

It was too small for a crow and didn't have the movements or coloration
of a thrush. While we're not far from the Dart as the bird flies, we've
never seen waders here and its legs weren't long enough either, so the
woodpecker idea still seems most likely. Needless to say, we haven't
seen it again!

This is the Female Greater spotted Woodpecker, the size would be about
right, but I've never seen any of them on the ground,

Maybe you haven't, but they do feed on the ground from time to time,
foraging for insects, ants, seeds and fruits.

It is also worth bearing in mind that judging the size of a bird
without reference points is well known to be very difficult.

All I can say is that going by what we often see from our bedroom
window - rooks, jackdaws, blackbirds, wood pigeons, ring necked doves,
occasional buzzards ont he ground in bad winters, a sparrowhawk flying
past three times today, sparrows, this was more black bird size and
perhaps just a bit larger.
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

I'm so glad you said that. I'm trying to get confident about distinguishing raven from crow. Everyone says "Oh but it's easy, the raven is much larger" - but if you see a single black bird at an indeterminate distance in relatively featureless countryside you don't know well, how do you know whether it's a big bird far off or a smaller bird nearer to?

OK, a raven has a wedge-shaped tail - but you can't always see that, and it's beak is "heavier" - but again without direct comparison that's difficult.

Once you've seen ravens a fair few times - and as they are getting rather more common again one does see them fairly frequently if you go out walking in hills and craggy places - (and even less wild places I've even occasionally seen them here in the Chilterns, and I saw them on Salisbury Plain last time I was there) - you get used to their way of flying, which is different from the way crows and rooks fly. It's like spotting green woodpeckers by their swooping flight which is quite distinctive and I immediately know a GrWd as soon as I see it fly, often accompanied by its distinctive warning call. If ravens croak that is also distinctive - I often know there's a raven about as soon as I hear it. Same with choughs. If you are unsure if you have seen a chough, you haven't, as their way of flying is such you couldn't mistake them for any other crow.

So when you are out with an experienced birdwatcher in some place and he points to some raptor far away in the sky and he immediately and confidently tells you its an X, when it seems far too far away to possibly make out any of the distinguishing marks in the bird book, that's the reason - he's seen it so often it is immediately evident to him what it is from its habit.

So, in sum, to start with you'll have to rely on getting a good enough sighting to make out the tail shape and other distinguishing features, but you get used to them and then they become obvious.