On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 10:10:05 +0100, Andy
wrote:

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 09:52:49 +0200, martin wrote:

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 08:24:15 +0100, Andy
wrote:

On 14 Aug 2003 12:44:36 GMT, (Bill Pritchard)
wrote:

I am a townie who has just moved to the green stuff. My first impression is
that, round these parts, the f***er is considered,and considers himself, amost
a god. A f***er,s idea of hard times is having to make his new Range Rover last
18 months instead of 12. If you really want to annoy, stop tugging you forelock
when he passes.


'You never see a farmer on a bike.' as they say round here.

I have thought long and hard about this even in the nineteen forties I
can't remember ever seeing an English farmer on a bike. My best friend
was a Yorkshire farmer's son and his father did have a bike I can
remember his son using a hacksaw to saw through the crossbar and his
disappointment that it went undiscovered. I can't remember his father
ever not being on the farm. I do remember that the furthest his elder
adult brothers, who worked as unpaid farm labourers, had ever been
was to York 6 miles away.

York you say? Ah, I'd like to travel one day.

:-)

Yokels R US?
--
Martin

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 10:10:05 +0100, Andy
wrote:


York you say? Ah, I'd like to travel one day.

One day Railtrack might make it possible :-)

You could always go by bike or are you a farmer? :-)
--
Martin

Andy wrote in message . ..
On 14 Aug 2003 12:44:36 GMT, (Bill Pritchard)
wrote:

I am a townie who has just moved to the green stuff. My first impression is
that, round these parts, the f***er is considered,and considers himself, amost
a god. A f***er,s idea of hard times is having to make his new Range Rover last
18 months instead of 12. If you really want to annoy, stop tugging you forelock
when he passes.


'You never see a farmer on a bike.' as they say round here. Though
you do see the odd farm worker who has been evicted from his tied
cottage for various reasons. Those reasons usually being something
along the lines of refusing to be available to spray dangerous
chemicals without safety equipment twenty four hours a day, seven days
a week for a minimum wage. Having their old houses developed and sold
for inflated prices to the townies that farmers complain about as soon
as they get their money has nothing to do with it of course.

Let's not knock farmers. My neighbours in West Wales work all the
hours, including the one who's managed to sell a couple of houses, and
deserve their living as much as any other small businessman. I've
never seen a paper-shop owner on a bike, either. In fact, in jaundiced
moments I sometimes feel you actually never see *anybody* on a bike
these days -- except the ones on bikes worth more than both my cars
put together.

Farm worker? What's that? If the family can't do it, it doesn't get
done.

Mike.

Subject: How to be an irritating neighbour.
From: "paul"
Date: 18/08/2003 13:08 GMT Standard Time
Message-id:


"martin" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 12:29:26 +0100, Jane Ransom
wrote:

In article , martin
writes

Many farmers received substantial compensation for foot and mouth

Farmers did *not* receive 'compensation'.
They were paid the market price for the animals that were forcibly taken
from them and destroyed.

and how would you have stopped the outbreak?

Maybe I am wrong, but didn't UK farmers reject vaccination, the very
effective solution taken in the Netherlands and wasn't the main cause
an irresponsible farmer, poor controls in the markets and filthy
abattoirs that allowed infected stock to be moved all over UK?

What would they have restocked with after selling their existing
cattle at the market price? It's obvious that specialist breeding
places had a major problem.
Where did they get the cattle that were used to restock?

Isn't the problem that UK market prices are abysmal, because of the
monopoly positions of the main buyers - the supermarkets?

They were unable, using this money, to restock
to the same levels when they were finally told they could buy more
stock.

It was called compensation AFAIR.


and
for not farming livestock in future.
This explains the large number of shiny new tractors etc. and new 4x4
vehicles a year after NE Yorkshire farming was supposed to be
devastated by the results of F&M.

The farmers round here do not have any new vehicles at all. In fact they
are still struggling, working harder than ever for lower rewards.

There are plenty new vehicles and farm machines in NE Yorkshire, it's
seeing them that made me ask my bank manager how they could afford it.


If Margaret Thatcher killed our mining industry, then you can say Tony
Blair is well on the way to killing our farming industry. Farmers are
getting pig sick of all the inaccurate, adverse publicity that is being
flung their way.

Since the UK press is mainly right wing Murdoch owned and anti-EU. I
think you are blaming the wrong person. Any reference to EU activities
made by his newspapers are basically rubbish, unfortunately this
includes farming too.

I think the whole of Europe were ****ed off with farmers being paid
subsidies for over producing stuff that nobody wants. It's not that
long ago since farmers could and did pick up UKP500/acre for ploughing
up bits of moorland. It's also obvious that with a large number of new
countries joining the EU, most with rural economies, the money just
isn't there to carry on paying subsidies at the old levels. If it
wasn't for France and their very vociferous peasant farmers, I suspect
that farm subsidies would have disappeared in the seventies.

We live on an island: God help us if we ever have a
crisis which means we can't import food and we have no farmers left to
produce it.

You'll find that like in WWII output of the right stuff can quickly be
increased. Maybe the linseed and rape seed growers will no longer be
around.

I do know that small farms and marginally economic hill farming are
having a very hard time, I know of somebody whose only income is the
money he gets from an electricity board for the pylons they have
planted on his land. Somewhere between throwing EU money at farmers to
produce wine, beef, oil, orange and grain lakes and mountains and the
problems of small farmers there must be a reasonable solution. I have
never understood why dairy farming was so heavily subsidised and beef
wasn't or why the emphasis was on quantity and not quality.
--
Martin

the main reason for not vacinating was that europe would not accept any live
stock from us. but on the other hand they won't take it for fears of other
things like BSE etc.

so the farmers are caught between a rock and a hard place.



Actually the reason for not vaccinating was that the supermarkets would not
sell milk/beef/ lamb etc from stock that had been vaccinated.

A Page

Subject: How to be an irritating neighbour.
From: "paul"
Date: 18/08/2003 13:08 GMT Standard Time
Message-id:


"martin" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 12:29:26 +0100, Jane Ransom
wrote:

In article , martin
writes

Many farmers received substantial compensation for foot and mouth

Farmers did *not* receive 'compensation'.
They were paid the market price for the animals that were forcibly taken
from them and destroyed.

and how would you have stopped the outbreak?

Maybe I am wrong, but didn't UK farmers reject vaccination, the very
effective solution taken in the Netherlands and wasn't the main cause
an irresponsible farmer, poor controls in the markets and filthy
abattoirs that allowed infected stock to be moved all over UK?

What would they have restocked with after selling their existing
cattle at the market price? It's obvious that specialist breeding
places had a major problem.
Where did they get the cattle that were used to restock?

Isn't the problem that UK market prices are abysmal, because of the
monopoly positions of the main buyers - the supermarkets?

They were unable, using this money, to restock
to the same levels when they were finally told they could buy more
stock.

It was called compensation AFAIR.


and
for not farming livestock in future.
This explains the large number of shiny new tractors etc. and new 4x4
vehicles a year after NE Yorkshire farming was supposed to be
devastated by the results of F&M.

The farmers round here do not have any new vehicles at all. In fact they
are still struggling, working harder than ever for lower rewards.

There are plenty new vehicles and farm machines in NE Yorkshire, it's
seeing them that made me ask my bank manager how they could afford it.


If Margaret Thatcher killed our mining industry, then you can say Tony
Blair is well on the way to killing our farming industry. Farmers are
getting pig sick of all the inaccurate, adverse publicity that is being
flung their way.

Since the UK press is mainly right wing Murdoch owned and anti-EU. I
think you are blaming the wrong person. Any reference to EU activities
made by his newspapers are basically rubbish, unfortunately this
includes farming too.

I think the whole of Europe were ****ed off with farmers being paid
subsidies for over producing stuff that nobody wants. It's not that
long ago since farmers could and did pick up UKP500/acre for ploughing
up bits of moorland. It's also obvious that with a large number of new
countries joining the EU, most with rural economies, the money just
isn't there to carry on paying subsidies at the old levels. If it
wasn't for France and their very vociferous peasant farmers, I suspect
that farm subsidies would have disappeared in the seventies.

We live on an island: God help us if we ever have a
crisis which means we can't import food and we have no farmers left to
produce it.

You'll find that like in WWII output of the right stuff can quickly be
increased. Maybe the linseed and rape seed growers will no longer be
around.

I do know that small farms and marginally economic hill farming are
having a very hard time, I know of somebody whose only income is the
money he gets from an electricity board for the pylons they have
planted on his land. Somewhere between throwing EU money at farmers to
produce wine, beef, oil, orange and grain lakes and mountains and the
problems of small farmers there must be a reasonable solution. I have
never understood why dairy farming was so heavily subsidised and beef
wasn't or why the emphasis was on quantity and not quality.
--
Martin

the main reason for not vacinating was that europe would not accept any live
stock from us. but on the other hand they won't take it for fears of other
things like BSE etc.

so the farmers are caught between a rock and a hard place.



Actually the reason for not vaccinating was that the supermarkets would not
sell milk/beef/ lamb etc from stock that had been vaccinated.

A Page

Subject: How to be an irritating neighbour.
From: "paul"
Date: 18/08/2003 13:08 GMT Standard Time
Message-id:


"martin" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 12:29:26 +0100, Jane Ransom
wrote:

In article , martin
writes

Many farmers received substantial compensation for foot and mouth

Farmers did *not* receive 'compensation'.
They were paid the market price for the animals that were forcibly taken
from them and destroyed.

and how would you have stopped the outbreak?

Maybe I am wrong, but didn't UK farmers reject vaccination, the very
effective solution taken in the Netherlands and wasn't the main cause
an irresponsible farmer, poor controls in the markets and filthy
abattoirs that allowed infected stock to be moved all over UK?

What would they have restocked with after selling their existing
cattle at the market price? It's obvious that specialist breeding
places had a major problem.
Where did they get the cattle that were used to restock?

Isn't the problem that UK market prices are abysmal, because of the
monopoly positions of the main buyers - the supermarkets?

They were unable, using this money, to restock
to the same levels when they were finally told they could buy more
stock.

It was called compensation AFAIR.


and
for not farming livestock in future.
This explains the large number of shiny new tractors etc. and new 4x4
vehicles a year after NE Yorkshire farming was supposed to be
devastated by the results of F&M.

The farmers round here do not have any new vehicles at all. In fact they
are still struggling, working harder than ever for lower rewards.

There are plenty new vehicles and farm machines in NE Yorkshire, it's
seeing them that made me ask my bank manager how they could afford it.


If Margaret Thatcher killed our mining industry, then you can say Tony
Blair is well on the way to killing our farming industry. Farmers are
getting pig sick of all the inaccurate, adverse publicity that is being
flung their way.

Since the UK press is mainly right wing Murdoch owned and anti-EU. I
think you are blaming the wrong person. Any reference to EU activities
made by his newspapers are basically rubbish, unfortunately this
includes farming too.

I think the whole of Europe were ****ed off with farmers being paid
subsidies for over producing stuff that nobody wants. It's not that
long ago since farmers could and did pick up UKP500/acre for ploughing
up bits of moorland. It's also obvious that with a large number of new
countries joining the EU, most with rural economies, the money just
isn't there to carry on paying subsidies at the old levels. If it
wasn't for France and their very vociferous peasant farmers, I suspect
that farm subsidies would have disappeared in the seventies.

We live on an island: God help us if we ever have a
crisis which means we can't import food and we have no farmers left to
produce it.

You'll find that like in WWII output of the right stuff can quickly be
increased. Maybe the linseed and rape seed growers will no longer be
around.

I do know that small farms and marginally economic hill farming are
having a very hard time, I know of somebody whose only income is the
money he gets from an electricity board for the pylons they have
planted on his land. Somewhere between throwing EU money at farmers to
produce wine, beef, oil, orange and grain lakes and mountains and the
problems of small farmers there must be a reasonable solution. I have
never understood why dairy farming was so heavily subsidised and beef
wasn't or why the emphasis was on quantity and not quality.
--
Martin

the main reason for not vacinating was that europe would not accept any live
stock from us. but on the other hand they won't take it for fears of other
things like BSE etc.

so the farmers are caught between a rock and a hard place.



Actually the reason for not vaccinating was that the supermarkets would not
sell milk/beef/ lamb etc from stock that had been vaccinated.

A Page

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 13:08:46 +0100, "paul"
wrote:

the main reason for not vacinating was that europe would not accept any live
stock from us. but on the other hand they won't take it for fears of other
things like BSE etc.

and the Dutch did vaccinate. The French and Swiss have BSE, but nobody
has banned the import of their beef.


so the farmers are caught between a rock and a hard place.


as usual.
--
Martin

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 13:08:46 +0100, "paul"
wrote:

the main reason for not vacinating was that europe would not accept any live
stock from us. but on the other hand they won't take it for fears of other
things like BSE etc.

and the Dutch did vaccinate. The French and Swiss have BSE, but nobody
has banned the import of their beef.


so the farmers are caught between a rock and a hard place.


as usual.
--
Martin

"martin" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 13:08:46 +0100, "paul"
wrote:

the main reason for not vacinating was that europe would not accept any
live
stock from us. but on the other hand they won't take it for fears of
other
things like BSE etc.

and the Dutch did vaccinate. The French and Swiss have BSE, but nobody
has banned the import of their beef.


so the farmers are caught between a rock and a hard place.


as usual.
--
Martin

exactly no wonder our farmers are giving in. how can they compete when there
are two rules, one for the europeans who can vacinate etc and sell anywhere
and the british who can vacinate but are unable to sell on there stock.
surely there is something wrong here. are we not all equal now that we are
the EU, surely we should be able to do as the european farmers are allowed,
or is back to the old saying "one set of rules for them and another for us"