In article , martin
writes

and how would you have stopped the outbreak?

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh!!!!!!!
Do you remember what the outbreak was attributed to - I mean the really
rock bottom cause?
****PLEASE**** don't start me off on *that* one!!!

Isn't the problem that UK market prices are abysmal, because of the
monopoly positions of the main buyers - the supermarkets?

That's another one I don't want to be started off on (

It was called compensation AFAIR.

When you go to the supermarket and give the cashier some money for the
trolley full of goods you are going to take, do you call that
*compensating* the supermarket?

We live on an island: God help us if we ever have a
crisis which means we can't import food and we have no farmers left to
produce it.

You'll find that like in WWII output of the right stuff can quickly be
increased.

Only if we have people around who know *how* to grow it in the first
place. At the current rate that farmers are going bust or giving up, it
won't be long before we don't have any at all ((

--
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.
I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg
but if you need to email me for any other reason,
put jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see deadspam.com

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 14:30:57 +0100, Jane Ransom
wrote:

In article , martin
writes

and how would you have stopped the outbreak?

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh!!!!!!!
Do you remember what the outbreak was attributed to - I mean the really
rock bottom cause?

I wasn't sure I looked with google. According to the BBC (see separate
post)The outbreak was caused by a dishonest framer. The reason it
spread was the system of UK cattle marketing.

****PLEASE**** don't start me off on *that* one!!!

Isn't the problem that UK market prices are abysmal, because of the
monopoly positions of the main buyers - the supermarkets?

That's another one I don't want to be started off on (

It's better to say it.


It was called compensation AFAIR.

When you go to the supermarket and give the cashier some money for the
trolley full of goods you are going to take, do you call that
*compensating* the supermarket?

when somebody gives me handfuls of money decade after decade for
producing something nobody wants do you call that normal.


We live on an island: God help us if we ever have a
crisis which means we can't import food and we have no farmers left to
produce it.

You'll find that like in WWII output of the right stuff can quickly be
increased.

Only if we have people around who know *how* to grow it in the first
place. At the current rate that farmers are going bust or giving up, it
won't be long before we don't have any at all ((

The trend is for bigger and bigger farms, surprisingly, because of
communism and collectivisation, East Germany reached that point
decades ago, whilst West German and French farmers were still getting
subsidies for cultivating narrow strips of land that are the result of
the Napoleonic system inheritance.
Would you believe that 6 years ago the owner of a hotel that I know
in Bavaria was, and perhaps still is, getting EU agricultural
subsidies for maintaining a large unused wooden barn although all his
land was sold off years ago when the farmhouse was converted to a
hotel?
--
Martin

In article , martin
writes

I wasn't sure I looked with google. According to the BBC (see separate
post)The outbreak was caused by a dishonest framer.

He was one up from rock bottom.

The reason it
spread was the system of UK cattle marketing.

Due to 'centralising' the process (

when somebody gives me handfuls of money decade after decade for
producing something nobody wants do you call that normal.
************

Er . . . that isn't quite accurate. The correct wording is that 'nobody
wants at that price when they can get it cheaper elsewhere'.
The poor old British farmer is hemmed in by rules and regulations that
make his product more expensive than that of foreign farmers who don't
have the same regulations to abide by.

Would you believe that 6 years ago the owner of a hotel that I know
in Bavaria was, and perhaps still is, getting EU agricultural
subsidies for maintaining a large unused wooden barn although all his
land was sold off years ago when the farmhouse was converted to a
hotel?

And that's *his* fault???

I think we had better agree to differ on this one or we'll be here this
time next century !! )
--
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.
I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg
but if you need to email me for any other reason,
put jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see deadspam.com

NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-122-106-150.in-addr.btopenworld.com (213.122.106.150)
X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1060962075 85304 213.122.106.150 (16 [33576])
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Path: kermit!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!newsfeed.media. kyoto-u.ac.jp!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsf eed.freenet.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!host213-122-106-150.in-addr.btopenworld.COM!not-for-mail
Xref: kermit uk.rec.gardening:159796


"martin" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 12:29:26 +0100, Jane Ransom
wrote:

In article , martin
writes

Many farmers received substantial compensation for foot and mouth

Farmers did *not* receive 'compensation'.
They were paid the market price for the animals that were forcibly taken
from them and destroyed.


Dont want to get into this debate really. But one farmer locally was a
big player in the F&M disaster - lost all his stock on several farms ( he
was not a farmer at all really , more a stock seller).

he got lots of dosh - over a six figure sum - and I hear he went to
Australia on the proceeds.

Now I know some real farmers came out of this very badly.
I also remember being very vigilant on my own land when I came home from
travelling to work through an infected area so that I didn't cause any
problem for the local organic milk farmer up the road.
Luckily he didn't get it.

Jane Ransom wrote in message ...
In article , Druss
writes

I see in this case that Mich has mentioned that some incoming millionaire
type has already threatened the farmer with legal action, it is this kind of
stupidity and intolerance of the work the farmers are supposed to be doing
**************************************

Aye . . . producing f o o d.
In my opinion there ain't no more important a job!!

And you think part of that job is knocking down somebody's house? The
millionaire wasn't trying to sue him for farming.

MIke.

I don't think luck had anything to do with it, those f***ers who didn't want
F&M didn't get it.
Bill Pritchard
Retired and Emotional

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 16:45:47 +0100, "Mich"
wrote:


"martin" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 12:29:26 +0100, Jane Ransom
wrote:

In article , martin
writes

Many farmers received substantial compensation for foot and mouth

Farmers did *not* receive 'compensation'.
They were paid the market price for the animals that were forcibly taken
from them and destroyed.


Dont want to get into this debate really. But one farmer locally was a
big player in the F&M disaster - lost all his stock on several farms ( he
was not a farmer at all really , more a stock seller).

he got lots of dosh - over a six figure sum - and I hear he went to
Australia on the proceeds.

I have the feeling that as usual the rich got richer and the poor
became bankrupt.


Now I know some real farmers came out of this very badly.
I also remember being very vigilant on my own land when I came home from
travelling to work through an infected area so that I didn't cause any
problem for the local organic milk farmer up the road.

At the peak of F&M we were on holiday first near Whitby and then near
Thirsk, both bad places for F&M. In both areas all the roads had
troughs to contain disinfectant. We never saw a single trough that
actually contained disinfectant. The locals told us that the troughs
were kept topped up for the first week or so and then forgotten. We
watched a milk lorry doing a collection going from farm to farm
everyday. It's hardly surprising F&M spread the way it did in UK. In
the Netherlands when their F&M outbreak was identified the area was
sealed off by the police and all cattle markets were immediately
closed. Result epidemic contained and stopped almost immediately.

I don't know who was to blame for what went on in UK. I think probably
the whole farming system and MAFF.
--
Martin

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 16:26:07 +0100, Jane Ransom
wrote:

In article , martin
writes

I wasn't sure I looked with google. According to the BBC (see separate
post)The outbreak was caused by a dishonest framer.

He was one up from rock bottom.

The reason it
spread was the system of UK cattle marketing.

Due to 'centralising' the process (

when somebody gives me handfuls of money decade after decade for
producing something nobody wants do you call that normal.
************

Er . . . that isn't quite accurate. The correct wording is that 'nobody
wants at that price when they can get it cheaper elsewhere'.
The poor old British farmer is hemmed in by rules and regulations that
make his product more expensive than that of foreign farmers who don't
have the same regulations to abide by.

As far as I know, all EU farmers work to the same rules.
As with everything related to the EU, UK bureaucracy seems to be over
the top in enforcing things, but extremely poor in taking advantage
of what's on offer.


Would you believe that 6 years ago the owner of a hotel that I know
in Bavaria was, and perhaps still is, getting EU agricultural
subsidies for maintaining a large unused wooden barn although all his
land was sold off years ago when the farmhouse was converted to a
hotel?

And that's *his* fault???

no did I say it was?
It's a fault in the system. I bet nobody in UK the same situation was
claiming subsidies.


I think we had better agree to differ on this one or we'll be here this
time next century !! )

picking daisies :-)
--
Martin

In article , Bill
Pritchard writes
I don't think luck had anything to do with it, those f***ers who didn't want
F&M didn't get it.

Our farmers didn't want it, didn't get it, were a couple of miles from
someone who did get it, but still, after fight after fight after fight,
had their animals destroyed.

--
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.
I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg
but if you need to email me for any other reason,
put jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see deadspam.com

In article , martin
writes
lost all his stock on several farms ( he
was not a farmer at all really , more a stock seller).

he got lots of dosh - over a six figure sum -

Which is what he would have had to spend to restock.

and I hear he went to
Australia on the proceeds.

He obviously didn't restock.
--
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.
I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg
but if you need to email me for any other reason,
put jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see deadspam.com

"paul" wrote in message
. ..

i was not reply directly to and i am sorry, it was aimed at the comment
from
the 'Rural' bank manager comment.

I am afraid you are messing up every thread you touch because of your top
posting.
Please play the game according to the rules.

[snip]

Franz

The message
from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:

Cloff please!

Cloff?

To whipe the keybrod and minotaur.

er ... OH!

But why would you need to whipe anything?

quote ... a few hives of bees to replace the hebe ...

--
Rusty
This space scribbled in in case someone nicks it before I find a decent sig.

On 14 Aug 2003 12:44:36 GMT, (Bill Pritchard)
wrote:

I am a townie who has just moved to the green stuff. My first impression is
that, round these parts, the f***er is considered,and considers himself, amost
a god. A f***er,s idea of hard times is having to make his new Range Rover last
18 months instead of 12. If you really want to annoy, stop tugging you forelock
when he passes.


'You never see a farmer on a bike.' as they say round here. Though
you do see the odd farm worker who has been evicted from his tied
cottage for various reasons. Those reasons usually being something
along the lines of refusing to be available to spray dangerous
chemicals without safety equipment twenty four hours a day, seven days
a week for a minimum wage. Having their old houses developed and sold
for inflated prices to the townies that farmers complain about as soon
as they get their money has nothing to do with it of course.

Andy

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 08:24:15 +0100, Andy
wrote:

On 14 Aug 2003 12:44:36 GMT, (Bill Pritchard)
wrote:

I am a townie who has just moved to the green stuff. My first impression is
that, round these parts, the f***er is considered,and considers himself, amost
a god. A f***er,s idea of hard times is having to make his new Range Rover last
18 months instead of 12. If you really want to annoy, stop tugging you forelock
when he passes.


'You never see a farmer on a bike.' as they say round here.

I have thought long and hard about this even in the nineteen forties I
can't remember ever seeing an English farmer on a bike. My best friend
was a Yorkshire farmer's son and his father did have a bike I can
remember his son using a hacksaw to saw through the crossbar and his
disappointment that it went undiscovered. I can't remember his father
ever not being on the farm. I do remember that the furthest his elder
adult brothers, who worked as unpaid farm labourers, had ever been
was to York 6 miles away.
--
Martin

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 09:52:49 +0200, martin wrote:

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 08:24:15 +0100, Andy
wrote:

On 14 Aug 2003 12:44:36 GMT, (Bill Pritchard)
wrote:

I am a townie who has just moved to the green stuff. My first impression is
that, round these parts, the f***er is considered,and considers himself, amost
a god. A f***er,s idea of hard times is having to make his new Range Rover last
18 months instead of 12. If you really want to annoy, stop tugging you forelock
when he passes.


'You never see a farmer on a bike.' as they say round here.

I have thought long and hard about this even in the nineteen forties I
can't remember ever seeing an English farmer on a bike. My best friend
was a Yorkshire farmer's son and his father did have a bike I can
remember his son using a hacksaw to saw through the crossbar and his
disappointment that it went undiscovered. I can't remember his father
ever not being on the farm. I do remember that the furthest his elder
adult brothers, who worked as unpaid farm labourers, had ever been
was to York 6 miles away.

York you say? Ah, I'd like to travel one day.

Andy