David Hill31/12/03 9:44

I would go along with the advise to talk to either your local priest or to
someone from your local Spiritualist church.. a Good medium may
help...........and to think that no one has suggested warming it with a
spirit lamp.....(Sorry but someone had to lower the tone).

Or raise it with a bit of cheer. ;-)
--

Sacha
(remove the 'x' to email me)

David Hill31/12/03 9:44

I would go along with the advise to talk to either your local priest or to
someone from your local Spiritualist church.. a Good medium may
help...........and to think that no one has suggested warming it with a
spirit lamp.....(Sorry but someone had to lower the tone).

Or raise it with a bit of cheer. ;-)
--

Sacha
(remove the 'x' to email me)

Sacha wrote in message ...
Mike Lyle31/12/03 8:46

"mich" wrote in message
...
I have refrained from making a posting such as this before because I am
sure someone will take the p*ss!
I am not superstitious and I am not prone to being led by my emotions
generally.
[...]
There is a part of this garden which worries me. I can only describe it as
having a "presence".
Its spooks me. [...]
[...]
But why not get a dowser or two in to go over the whole garden, at
different times and without telling them exactly why or where? snip

No harm in getting a dowser in but I don't and can't agree that they
shouldn't be told why. Taken to extremes of belief, malevolent presences
can harm others and those attempting to deal with them should know what
they're dealing with.

I'm sorry: I didn't make myself clear enough. I was thinking of
avoiding either planting a suggestion in the dowser's mind or being
misled by a less than professional type who might jazz up the story
for his own reasons.

But I agree that one has no right to trick people into situations they
might have chosen to avoid, or to deal with differently had they known
what was going on; so your advice is better.

Mike.

In article ,
Gary Woods wrote:
Jaques d'Alltrades wrote:

It has been shown that a lot of spooky places are 'haunted' by
infrasound - that is, low notes on or just below the audible range.

Something churches know; which is why those massive pedal-note pipe
organs...

Interestingly enough, that is NOT true for all people. When I was
at school, I found that there was no gap between the sounds that I
could feel and those that I could hear. But I did cut off at 12,000
cycles. I now realise that part of that is because my hearing is NOT
more sensitive than my touch, which it is for most people.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

The message
from Gary Woods contains these words:
Jaques d'Alltrades wrote:

It has been shown that a lot of spooky places are 'haunted' by
infrasound - that is, low notes on or just below the audible range.

Something churches know; which is why those massive pedal-note pipe
organs...

Forgotten where it is - Albert Hall? Royal Festival Hall? St. Paul's?
has a 64 ft pipe which they daren't play in case it shakes the place
down.

I have thoughts along those lines using music generation software. I
have speakers which will handle infrasound.....

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

Mike Lyle1/1/04 11:47

Sacha wrote in message
...
snip

No harm in getting a dowser in but I don't and can't agree that they
shouldn't be told why. Taken to extremes of belief, malevolent presences
can harm others and those attempting to deal with them should know what
they're dealing with.

I'm sorry: I didn't make myself clear enough. I was thinking of
avoiding either planting a suggestion in the dowser's mind or being
misled by a less than professional type who might jazz up the story
for his own reasons.

But I agree that one has no right to trick people into situations they
might have chosen to avoid, or to deal with differently had they known
what was going on; so your advice is better.

Mike.

I see what you're getting at - and taking that into account, i would say
that you're right; the best bet is to say to the 'consultant' "I'm troubled
by my garden, could you come and have look over it", without mentioning a
specific area.
--

Sacha
(remove the 'x' to email me)

mich wrote in message ...
I have refrained from making a posting such as this before because I am
sure someone will take the p*ss!
I am not superstitious and I am not prone to being led by my emotions
generally.

I have lived in my current house which has a large garden for about four
years. It was very overgrown when I arrived.
I have spent sometime clearing it and making flower beds and a veggie
patch
amongst other things. I haven't finished yet by a long way.

There is a part of this garden which worries me. I can only describe it as
having a "presence".
Its spooks me. I find it erie and when I have been working and clearing
there I always feel as if I am being watched or someone has come into the
garden and I have to leave to take a look etc.

I cant call it malevolent but its not a happy feeling. Its also very cold
with a biting wind that cuts across it . I have tried to put in a wind
break in several places but to no effect. Its cold on the hottest of days.
The rest of the garden doesn't seem to have any kind of wind problem at
all.

Ive also had several accidents and incidents in this part of the garden.
Each time I change anything or disturb anything I end up stung by wasps
in
December?). The fence has fallen down and the Cornish wall has collapsed. I
am currently repairing both. Hence my comments today. Ive been down there
again and felt this feeling.

Ive tried clearing the area . Tidying and altering it. Taking down large
over grown bushes and re planting and even done some hard landscaping but
this feeling abides.
Its a large narrow section of garden about 20 ft by 100 ft strip across the
back of the garden.
The garden is SW facing and this is western part of it. In the one corner
there is a green house. I am not happy going in there either although
there
are no growing problems. I got a good crop of tomatoes last year, although
the first year I bought it into use I thought I had tobacco virus! However,
subsequent years have shown no such problem.

Anyone ever come across anything like this in their garden?
Likely answers to a cause? rational ones would be good , but I'll entertain
anything within reason!
Any solutions?


I had that sensation once- that crawling sensation down the
spine and the knowledge that something was badly wrong.
I'd been away for a week or more, and my house was a little converted
ex-chapel in a fairly lonely spot. I drove up in the
dark, unlocked the door to the house, and immediately got
that spooky sensation.

If I'd had anywhere nearby to sleep I would have gone away immediately, but
I didn't, so I turned all the lights on and
explored the house. As I went into the kitchen there was a strange smell,
and as I opened the freezer the nauseous smell
nearly knocked me over.

An electricity blip had knocked out the circuit breaker for the
ring main, and some slowly-rotting fish had been the result.

I wonder whether sometimes there are infinitesimal levels of
horrible smells which, like the low-frequency sound referred
to by another poster, are sufficient to trigger a reaction in some primitive
part of our brain- resulting in a crawling sensation, but
with no apparent sensory input to explain it?

I had the same sensation also when digging in the garden, for a little while
before unearthing a chicken carcase in a tesco bag,
so it had putrefied rather than rotted wholesomely.

Perhaps checking the area for bad drainage, which can result in anaerobic
decay and 'off'- smells might be worthwhile.


have fun

--

Anton

mich wrote in message ...
I have refrained from making a posting such as this before because I am
sure someone will take the p*ss!
I am not superstitious and I am not prone to being led by my emotions
generally.

I have lived in my current house which has a large garden for about four
years. It was very overgrown when I arrived.
I have spent sometime clearing it and making flower beds and a veggie
patch
amongst other things. I haven't finished yet by a long way.

There is a part of this garden which worries me. I can only describe it as
having a "presence".
Its spooks me. I find it erie and when I have been working and clearing
there I always feel as if I am being watched or someone has come into the
garden and I have to leave to take a look etc.

I cant call it malevolent but its not a happy feeling. Its also very cold
with a biting wind that cuts across it . I have tried to put in a wind
break in several places but to no effect. Its cold on the hottest of days.
The rest of the garden doesn't seem to have any kind of wind problem at
all.

Ive also had several accidents and incidents in this part of the garden.
Each time I change anything or disturb anything I end up stung by wasps
in
December?). The fence has fallen down and the Cornish wall has collapsed. I
am currently repairing both. Hence my comments today. Ive been down there
again and felt this feeling.

Ive tried clearing the area . Tidying and altering it. Taking down large
over grown bushes and re planting and even done some hard landscaping but
this feeling abides.
Its a large narrow section of garden about 20 ft by 100 ft strip across the
back of the garden.
The garden is SW facing and this is western part of it. In the one corner
there is a green house. I am not happy going in there either although
there
are no growing problems. I got a good crop of tomatoes last year, although
the first year I bought it into use I thought I had tobacco virus! However,
subsequent years have shown no such problem.

Anyone ever come across anything like this in their garden?
Likely answers to a cause? rational ones would be good , but I'll entertain
anything within reason!
Any solutions?


I had that sensation once- that crawling sensation down the
spine and the knowledge that something was badly wrong.
I'd been away for a week or more, and my house was a little converted
ex-chapel in a fairly lonely spot. I drove up in the
dark, unlocked the door to the house, and immediately got
that spooky sensation.

If I'd had anywhere nearby to sleep I would have gone away immediately, but
I didn't, so I turned all the lights on and
explored the house. As I went into the kitchen there was a strange smell,
and as I opened the freezer the nauseous smell
nearly knocked me over.

An electricity blip had knocked out the circuit breaker for the
ring main, and some slowly-rotting fish had been the result.

I wonder whether sometimes there are infinitesimal levels of
horrible smells which, like the low-frequency sound referred
to by another poster, are sufficient to trigger a reaction in some primitive
part of our brain- resulting in a crawling sensation, but
with no apparent sensory input to explain it?

I had the same sensation also when digging in the garden, for a little while
before unearthing a chicken carcase in a tesco bag,
so it had putrefied rather than rotted wholesomely.

Perhaps checking the area for bad drainage, which can result in anaerobic
decay and 'off'- smells might be worthwhile.


have fun

--

Anton

Sacha wrote in message ...
Mike Lyle1/1/04 11:47

Sacha wrote in message
...
snip

No harm in getting a dowser in but I don't and can't agree that they
shouldn't be told why. Taken to extremes of belief, malevolent presences
can harm others and those attempting to deal with them should know what
they're dealing with.

I'm sorry: I didn't make myself clear enough. I was thinking of
avoiding either planting a suggestion in the dowser's mind or being
misled by a less than professional type who might jazz up the story
for his own reasons.

But I agree that one has no right to trick people into situations they
might have chosen to avoid, or to deal with differently had they known
what was going on; so your advice is better.

Mike.

I see what you're getting at - and taking that into account, i would say
that you're right; the best bet is to say to the 'consultant' "I'm troubled
by my garden, could you come and have look over it", without mentioning a
specific area.

Bingo!

Mike.

"anton" wrote in message
...

mich wrote in message .

Anyone ever come across anything like this in their garden?
Likely answers to a cause? rational ones would be good , but I'll
entertain
anything within reason!
Any solutions?

I had the same sensation also when digging in the garden, for a little
while
before unearthing a chicken carcase in a tesco bag,
so it had putrefied rather than rotted wholesomely.

Perhaps checking the area for bad drainage, which can result in anaerobic
decay and 'off'- smells might be worthwhile.

Thanks for the suggestion.

There was a compost heap in the one corner ( behind the greenhouse) when I
first arrived but I have removed that. Also I take on board some of what you
say, since I know from trying to clear and dig this area that there is a
large amount of rubble burried in the strip. It was apparently once a
greenhouse ( or rather a large market garden type greenhouse occupied the
strip) , but it was knocked down at least two owners ago and it seems the
rubble was imply burried in situ.

I have escavated quite a lot of it ( concrete blocks) and used them for
other things.

I had been toying with the idea of putting another greenhouse on this site
with hard flooring. The ground is quite beyond cultivation ( too much broken
glass and rubble)

"Sacha" wrote in message
.. .
mich31/12/03 3:58

It seems to me very important for you that you get this dealt with - if
you
don't, you'll allow it to grow into a much bigger problem for your mind to
deal with and you'll find yourself avoiding that area, altogether.
And as a final suggestion, have you tried talking to your neighbours about
this - longer term residents, I mean?

Thanks to everyone for suggestions I am trying to follow some of them up. I
had already tried to look into the history.

I haven't mentioned it to anyone local. There are very few long term
residents in the village , although my next door neighbour is a village
"lad" ( hes 70!)

I have asked questions about what was there but not said why.

I have a smallholding. My deeds tell me the land was part of a much larger
estate farm up until 1915 when it was sold off in lots. It remained farmland
until 1952 and the area I am talking about may have been a sheep
pen/lambing pen then.
The filed that now constitutes my home was sold as
a smallholding to a lady , and presumably her husband , but I only have the
womans name on my deeds.

She had the bungalow built in 1958.

The garden was a market garden from 1952 -1980 growing strawberries,
tomatoes, cucumber and various such crops.
There were a large number of greenhouses on the property, including on the
section I am concerned about.

The property changed hands once I think between 1952 and 1980 possibly
because of the death of the original market gardener. In 1980 the bungalow
was renovated/updated and sold as a private dwelling and the market garden
ceased. The greenhouses were
pulled down and all the back stretch of ground I am talking about seems to
have been the dumping ground for the rubble from the greenhouses. Apparently
it was a greenhouse originally, one of about six extending from there back
onto the field.

This I can verify because I have reclaimed large amounts of concrete block
from
the ground and used it! The ground is also covered in shards of glass and
when I arrived I cleared out a load of window frames from the hedge in my
first tidy up campaign.

There have been two owners since 1980. The first lost her husband and moved
in with her daughter on a farm close by. She by all accounts loved the house
but found living alone too much ( she is actually a little doolaly if you
get my drift). She started the garden area from the smallholding - which was
just a couple of fields - which amounts currently to a third of an acre at
the back, planted a few trees.

The next owners were my predecessors. They extended the garden to
basically what I inherited. Oddly enough neither owners did anything with
this back strip I am talking about. The garden beds/ bushes etc. literally
end in front of the strip. By all accounts the previous owner also seems to
have loved the house and garden . I am told from locals it was a prize
garden until last owner couldnt cultivate it. Sale was due to him going into
sheltered accommodation.


I had originally taken no notice of the sudden garden end and when I
started clearing thought it
was because the area was filled with rubble and couldnt be dug. It was only
when I started working there I felt the problem.I have hard landscaped it
with the intent to of putting up a shed and a greenhouse here myself, but I
dont know what to do now.

Beyond it I have a meadow and and an orchard area which isn't under any
cultivation at present.

I would go along with looking at the historical aspects of the land. You
already know a lot of the history, but a local, very local History
Group/Society might be able to throw more light on the past use of the land.
I will make a prediction now that someone died in the greenhouse and they
come back to 'see what is going on'.

I state that from experience, let me explain.

In the late 60's, a member of the seasonal staff working in the kitchen at
the St Moritz Hotel on Culver Road Sandown, suddenly let out a shreik. Out
of the corner or her eye, she thought she had seen a man standing nearby
smoking a cigarette. In the mid 70's I had an evening job in the Snack Bar
which formed part of the hotel and during a period of quiet chat with the
owners, they 'carefully' told me the above story. They knew who the man was,
but not why he was smoking in the kitchen which is a no-no. I explained that
in the 60's, the outside yard had been covered over to bring it into the
kitchen as more working space, however in the late 40's and up to the mid
50's, July 1956 to be exact, this man would wait until the guests were on
their main course and would stand 'outside' to have a cigarette. He was
'outside', which is now 'inside'.

He was my father who died on July 31st 1956 when the hotel was full of
visitors.

Whether he is still there I don't know, but I feel that if you did deep
enough, (pardon the pun) into the history of the land, you may find somthing
on the above lines, perhaps??

By the way, if your feeling is a ghost and he is only looking, then he is
just like my Dad, harmless and just wants to see what is going on. :-))

Be 'friendly' to your ghost.

Mike

In the late 60's, a member of the seasonal staff working in the kitchen at
the St Moritz Hotel on Culver Road Sandown, suddenly let out a shreik.
Out
of the corner or her eye, she thought she had seen a man standing nearby

http://www.stmoritz.co.uk/welcome.htm

if anyone is interested

In article , mich
writes
There is a part of this garden which worries me. I can only describe it as
having a "presence".
Its spooks me. I find it erie and when I have been working and clearing
there I always feel as if I am being watched or someone has come into the
garden and I have to leave to take a look etc.

The answer is quite simple - leave it alone!!!

I amble round the garden regularly soaking up what it 'says' to me. I
then let all the information settle down and do basically what the
garden has 'told' me it wants. While the garden is nothing to write home
about, people have said that they find it 'restful'.

This bit of your garden gives you bad vibes to make you leave . . but it
doesn't follow you. All it wants is to be left alone. So leave it alone;
make it a hallowed place that no one can blunder into; plant a nice
'restful' border round it (restful plants, restful colours, restful
scents) and tell people it is your wild life patch. Treat it with
reverence and it will then stop worrying you. No point in fighting it!
--
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.
I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg
but if you need to email me for any other reason, put ransoms
at jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:58:27 -0000, "mich"
wrote:

I have refrained from making a posting such as this before because I am
sure someone will take the p*ss!
I am not superstitious and I am not prone to being led by my emotions
generally.

I have lived in my current house which has a large garden for about four
years. It was very overgrown when I arrived.
I have spent sometime clearing it and making flower beds and a veggie patch
amongst other things. I haven't finished yet by a long way.

There is a part of this garden which worries me. I can only describe it as
having a "presence".
Its spooks me. I find it erie and when I have been working and clearing
there I always feel as if I am being watched or someone has come into the
garden and I have to leave to take a look etc.

snip

One of the first things you need to establish is just how real the
'presence' is.

There are a few things you can do to this end;
Stand in the centre of your garden, have someone blindfold you.
Now, spin around a few times so as to disorientate yourself.
The other person should now guide you to various parts of the garden,
where you will sit for a while and try to describe how you feel.
You should ensure that you are guided to areas just outside the
target, so as to minimize any geographic recognition.

If the garden is such that you can detect where you are even with a
blindfold on, do the same again but wear a walkman ( playing something
suitably loud and distracting....though nothing by Pink Floyd - it'll
only make you maudlin ).
Have the assistant lead you by the arm.

It may help to have a couple of stiff drinks beforehand, just to add a
general sense of fuzziness.

The object of the exercise is to duplicate the old 'pepsi challenge'
at an emotional level - you may well find that without the aid of
external stimuli your senses will fail to recognise any change in your
emotional awareness at a specific point in the garden.

If it's any consolation I get much the same feeling sometimes when
strolling through the woods adjacent to my garden.
It doesn't happen often, but there are times when I feel distinctly
uncomfortable walking through the woods - so I leave.
On the flip-side, there are times when the tranquillity to be found
there is quite breathtaking.
I did some research a little while back and found that local history
shows the woods contained a pit ( I sometimes dig up interesting
bottles and the like ), and records the death of at least one workman
when the old railway line was being built at the top of the woods.

If you try the experiment and it proves that you can detect a tangible
presence, you'll have to try a less rational approach.
Don't be too disheartened though, it's your garden and you must do
whatever you feel will make things right.
One suggestion ( which probably won't sound any less daft than all the
others ) is to try talking to whatever it is that's there.
There's some logic in this - there are many things that can trigger an
emotional response, or a long forgotten memory. Scents, images,
textures...even the quality of light can trigger changes in mood.
Indulge yourself, strike up a conversation and see where it leads - it
could well be that a certain part of your garden strikes a chord with
some inner conflict, and this might be the chance to resolve it.
And after all, isn't that what gardens are all about?

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk